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54 minutes ago, goldenpp72 said:

I think saying going for them right now as an investment is even more risky, I think people over estimate how much this stuff will matter to people who didn't grow up playing it. Unlike some lost relic from a thousand years ago, when all the people who played some of this stuff are old or dead, I assume the market will dwindle quite a bit and the stuff people are buying on modern consoles, not much chance most of that will be worth much anytime within 10-20 years, especially as more and more people seek to minimize.

Not saying we're at the ceiling so to speak, but if someone is getting into it right now and has 5k to burn and ONLY wants to earn money, you'd be an idiot to start running out and buying whatever is out there right now imo. People are using hindsight way too much with this stuff, no one knows any retail releases today that will be worth thousands in 10 years, assuming that is even a possibility at all. Anyone who is saying they made a lot of money in the last 10 years, did so by buying games much older than that and likely got lucky. We're just now seeing some legit inflation for systems like PS1 which came out 25 years ago, and that's still a very small piece of its library, with most games still running a cool 20 bucks or less.

We’ll unfortunately have to agree to disagree.

Video games are now bigger than Hollywood and will only grow. I do believe people will continue to buy NES games even if they’re outdated or the people who originally grew up with them died. We only need to look to older collectibles to come to this conclusion. Comics, cards, coins, vintage toys and the list goes on. 
There are already modern games worth a lot more than their original purchase. Nearly every LRG switch game is worth almost double or more of its initial purchase price. 100% ROI over a couple of years. Just like stocks, people in the know will see the patterns and get the right games.

Also people can buy heavily discounted games at the end of cycles and make a good profit. GameStop were selling most ps2 games for $5-10. A lot of those games will increase over the years and some are already going for crazy prices because now those people who grew up with the ps2 want to re play those games.
I think if someone had $10k to invest they should definitely consider collectibles as part of their investment portfolio along with stocks. Always good to have diversification.

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I agree that a lot of people that have big collections likely don't need the money but when prices start getting to a certain point it definitely catches your attention and may be that extra motivation to sell, especially as you get older and your priorities change. One thing that holds me back from mass selling is it is work in itself (listing, shipping, etc.) but once the value gets to a certain point it's worth the effort and this stuff sells itself in the current market.

I think we have a ways to go yet. I could see relatively common CIB games for sought after franchises continue to climb significantly. The trends on most CIB games are going way up. Watch the 64... Mario 64 first print, Paper Mario, OoT CE... I could honestly see some of these games going for $250-$500 in the not too distant future for nice CIB copies. These were games that have been $100 or less CIB for quite some time and well after the initial boom in the early 2010s.

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12 hours ago, goldenpp72 said:

Unlike some lost relic from a thousand years ago, when all the people who played some of this stuff are old or dead, I assume the market will dwindle quite a bit and the stuff people are buying on modern consoles, not much chance most of that will be worth much anytime within 10-20 years, especially as more and more people seek to minimize.

Not saying we're at the ceiling so to speak, but if someone is getting into it right now and has 5k to burn and ONLY wants to earn money, you'd be an idiot to start running out and buying whatever is out there right now imo. People are using hindsight way too much with this stuff, no one knows any retail releases today that will be worth thousands in 10 years, assuming that is even a possibility at all.

This statement couldn't ring more true, and don't let anyone discourage you. Videogames are no different from any pop-based collectibles (comics, MTG, toys, dolls, movie posters, etc.), and the market for them has only been 'established' (i.e. no longer niche) in the last 5 years, whereas the market for say comic books was established in the 1970s. They are not in the same category as traditional antiques, like art, manuscripts, coins, ancient weapons/armor, ancient furniture etc., and arguably never will be because they simply do not carry the same level of cultural/historical significance (with very few exceptions).

Every generation grows up with items that are significant to their time, whether they be trains, comic books, sports cards, non-sports cards, die-cast cars, star wars figures, GI-Joes, barbie dolls, beanie-babies, pogs, etc. it's no different than videogames.

If you think baseball cards are up and up and up, I'm sorry you are mistaken, only the top 1-5% of baseball cards have retained any value, the rest are worthless.

If you think comic books are pure gold, again I'm sorry you are a fool. Only the key issues from the silver age era (pre-1970) have any significant value, and even then these were highly inflated after the MCU movies reinvigorated the interest in Marvel characters. I'm curious if anyone was ever paying attention to comic prices pre-2001, my guess is they weren't, because it was looking grim. Not to mention comics completely flattened in the late 90s (the infamous comic-book crash), after people completely hoarded them in mass, in pristine condition, and interest waned. Today, only comics graded in the highest grade possible command any value in the secondary market, the print run is simply too high, it needs to be CGC 9.8 or higher. Why do you think so many comic collectors are jumping ship to videogames? I guess they're seeing the writing on the wall, or as some would say 'diversifying'.

Does that mean comics are completely worthless? No, again the top 5% still command extreme premiums (which some might argue are highly inflated), first appearance of Superman (Action Comics 1), first appearance of Spiderman (Amazing Fantasy 15), First appearance of Batman (Detective Comics 27), all command in hundreds of thousands if not millions. Those are the exceptions, they are the 1% of the 1%, the majority are worth less than paper.

Baseball cards, sure your Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson's are going strong, but how are the Ken Griffey's, Sammy Sosa's, Mark Mcguires faring... not so good. Even Michael Jordan rookies were trending under $20 for the longest time until the 2020 documentary hit Netflix, and now they're boomin'.

Does all this mean you can't "invest" in pop-based collectible such as videogames? if you're smart about it and know what you're doing, you can make a good profit, but the term "Investing" is incorrect, the risk is too high, the volatility is way too high, the more accurate term is speculating, and the more crude term is gambling. People gambled on beanie babies and lost, people gambled on atari games and also lost (I am aware of the 'resurgence' in the past couple of months which I wonder how long it will last - but overall people were wiped), people gambled on comics, foil variants, first appearances, mint condition etc. etc. and lost. Trains, don't get me started on trains, there was a massive market for collectible trains, the train market is completely dead, gone with the generation of its time.

If you're lucky, and a "The Legend of Zelda" or "Super Mario Bros" for NES still hold the same relevance 20, 30, 50 years down the road (in an all-digital or VR age), those items might continue to appreciate. Speculating on a sealed Faxanadu or Snakes & Ladders for NES, to continue to appreciate in 50 years, is a fool's game, your money is better placed elsewhere. 

Short-term speculating, is a different matter entirely, and can be very lucrative in a collectibles-based market, if you read it right and ride the emotional waves, you can sell high and buy low, and repeat every couple of years. Short-term speculating can be in 2-3 year cycles but can even extend to 10 year cycles. Long-term investing is not compatible with pop-based collectibles, it's a gamble, the risk is just too high, the volatility is too high. I can walk in a casino, and convince myself that I can net a return of 100x on my initial investment and choose to ignore the risk I'm undertaking.

If you're looking for investing, the first rule any financial advisor would tell you is to manage your risk, and that means NOT investing in something that can wipe out more than 20% of your holdings, this means avoiding highly volatile assets, and focusing on low but steady assets that can net you consistent returns on an annual basis. The second rule they will tell you is diversifying your portfolio, this means real-estate, stocks, mutual funds, starting your own business, or even investment-grade collectibles (debatable on which truly are - and videogames are nowhere near that level).

Any fool can put all their life savings on an Apple/Google stock, and it might pay off one day. That's not investing, it's gambling.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Amermoe said:

 

Baseball cards, sure your Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson's are going strong, but how are the Ken Griffey's, Sammy Sosa's, Mark Mcguires faring... not so good. Even Michael Jordan rookies were trending under $20 for the longest time until the 2020 documentary hit Netflix, and now they're boomin'.

 

Had a good laugh at the bolded.   At no point in the last 30 years has Jordan's true rookie card "trended under $20".   

Agree with the sentiment of your post.   What killed most of the things that time passage hasn't killed off were things specifically marketed to be collectible.   Comics and cards both got flooded around the same time.   Beanie Babies slit the golden goose's throat and watched it bleed out.

The scarce items are still doing okay, even Beanies (like the original dinosaurs).   You just have to find the true scarce items, and that takes some research.

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I realized a few weeks ago that I don't need all the stuff I had. I was debating on selling it all (because of the combo of high prices and waning interest) so I went through my games and picked out the ones I thought I would miss the least. Needless to say, those games are now on my selling page right here on VGS. I made a few sales, felt good about it, didn't regret it (yet), so I'll continue to sell as long as people want to buy them. But to say I am fully dedicated to selling is inaccurate because I am only selling here, nowhere else, so if someone comes along and offers me a good deal on something I listed, it's gone.

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5 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Had a good laugh at the bolded.   At no point in the last 30 years has Jordan's true rookie card "trended under $20".   

Agree with the sentiment of your post.   What killed most of the things that time passage hasn't killed off were things specifically marketed to be collectible.   Comics and cards both got flooded around the same time.   Beanie Babies slit the golden goose's throat and watched it bleed out.

The scarce items are still doing okay, even Beanies (like the original dinosaurs).   You just have to find the true scarce items, and that takes some research.

 

This is actually a sentiment I agree with to some extent, videogames were not designed to be collectible and are actually still not recognized as one by many places that should at this point. Gaming kind of became a collectible naturally which I do think will help it retain value over time, but I do still feel that the relevance will diminish as time passes. Handing a kid today a copy of Ninja Gaiden just isn't going to elicit a response from them to want to collect it in 20 years, and you can kind of see that with systems like the Atari 2600. Culturally very relevant, but the people who were into it, weren't INTO it like Nintendo/Sega/Sony/etc fans, they just don't fit well within the scheme of who is after this stuff right now.

Evidence is mounting that a lot of it depends on the age and resources of the base, systems like the N64 and Gamecube are going to keep climbing as the people who grew up with them get older and nostalgic, but do people who were born and raised with say, Halo and beyond, really care to go back before that? Almost every collector I know of has been in a similar age range to me, so perhaps it's anecdotal. I began when I was 23 or so lightly, and am near 35 now. The only difference in my style was I went for the cheapest, common and high volume approach which ended up being the right move in hindsight, even if people made fun of me back then for worrying about 10 dollar Gamecube titles rather than the Little Samsons of the world.

Years ago when my nephew came to visit, even though he grew up playing N64, he really only had interest in going back as far as Xbox 1, and if I had to guess, had I not began with the Atari 2600 due to my family being poorer, I don't think I would own stuff for it either, i'd just not care. I simply happened to be alive and present in the hobby during most of its relevance, so I am a key target for this sort of thing. I suppose it boils down to are you collecting to own things you had or wanted, or are you collecting to collect, and I do feel almost every game collector I have ever met has sentiment for the era and systems they buy for, the connection usually has to be there.

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1 hour ago, Amermoe said:

This statement couldn't ring more true, and don't let anyone discourage you. Videogames are no different from any pop-based collectibles (comics, MTG, toys, dolls, movie posters, etc.), and the market for them has only been 'established' (i.e. no longer niche) in the last 5 years, whereas the market for say comic books was established in the 1970s. They are not in the same category as traditional antiques, like art, manuscripts, coins, ancient weapons/armor, ancient furniture etc., and arguably never will be because they simply do not carry the same level of cultural/historical significance (with very few exceptions).

Every generation grows up with items that are significant to their time, whether they be trains, comic books, sports cards, non-sports cards, die-cast cars, star wars figures, GI-Joes, barbie dolls, beanie-babies, pogs, etc. it's no different than videogames.

If you think baseball cards are up and up and up, I'm sorry you are mistaken, only the top 1-5% of baseball cards have retained any value, the rest are worthless.

If you think comic books are pure gold, again I'm sorry you are a fool. Only the key issues from the silver age era (pre-1970) have any significant value, and even then these were highly inflated after the MCU movies reinvigorated the interest in Marvel characters. I'm curious if anyone was ever paying attention to comic prices pre-2001, my guess is they weren't, because it was looking grim. Not to mention comics completely flattened in the late 90s (the infamous comic-book crash), after people completely hoarded them in mass, in pristine condition, and interest waned. Today, only comics graded in the highest grade possible command any value in the secondary market, the print run is simply too high, it needs to be CGC 9.8 or higher. Why do you think so many comic collectors are jumping ship to videogames? I guess they're seeing the writing on the wall, or as some would say 'diversifying'.

Does that mean comics are completely worthless? No, again the top 5% still command extreme premiums (which some might argue are highly inflated), first appearance of Superman (Action Comics 1), first appearance of Spiderman (Amazing Fantasy 15), First appearance of Batman (Detective Comics 27), all command in hundreds of thousands if not millions. Those are the exceptions, they are the 1% of the 1%, the majority are worth less than paper.

Baseball cards, sure your Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson's are going strong, but how are the Ken Griffey's, Sammy Sosa's, Mark Mcguires faring... not so good. Even Michael Jordan rookies were trending under $20 for the longest time until the 2020 documentary hit Netflix, and now they're boomin'.

Does all this mean you can't "invest" in pop-based collectible such as videogames? if you're smart about it and know what you're doing, you can make a good profit, but the term "Investing" is incorrect, the risk is too high, the volatility is way too high, the more accurate term is speculating, and the more crude term is gambling. People gambled on beanie babies and lost, people gambled on atari games and also lost (I am aware of the 'resurgence' in the past couple of months which I wonder how long it will last - but overall people were wiped), people gambled on comics, foil variants, first appearances, mint condition etc. etc. and lost. Trains, don't get me started on trains, there was a massive market for collectible trains, the train market is completely dead, gone with the generation of its time.

If you're lucky, and a "The Legend of Zelda" or "Super Mario Bros" for NES still hold the same relevance 20, 30, 50 years down the road (in an all-digital or VR age), those items might continue to appreciate. Speculating on a sealed Faxanadu or Snakes & Ladders for NES, to continue to appreciate in 50 years, is a fool's game, your money is better placed elsewhere. 

Short-term speculating, is a different matter entirely, and can be very lucrative in a collectibles-based market, if you read it right and ride the emotional waves, you can sell high and buy low, and repeat every couple of years. Short-term speculating can be in 2-3 year cycles but can even extend to 10 year cycles. Long-term investing is not compatible with pop-based collectibles, it's a gamble, the risk is just too high, the volatility is too high. I can walk in a casino, and convince myself that I can net a return of 100x on my initial investment and choose to ignore the risk I'm undertaking.

If you're looking for investing, the first rule any financial advisor would tell you is to manage your risk, and that means NOT investing in something that can wipe out more than 20% of your holdings, this means avoiding highly volatile assets, and focusing on low but steady assets that can net you consistent returns on an annual basis. The second rule they will tell you is diversifying your portfolio, this means real-estate, stocks, mutual funds, starting your own business, or even investment-grade collectibles (debatable on which truly are - and videogames are nowhere near that level).

Any fool can put all their life savings on an Apple/Google stock, and it might pay off one day. That's not investing, it's gambling.

 

 

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about with sports cards. All pre junk era (1984-1993ish), graded cards are booming. Jordan’s rookie has not been $20 since the 80’s and has been steadily climbing since. New cards are as hot as ever, with rookies and autos the driving force with Topps and Bowman in baseball. Prizm in basketball, Upper Deck in hockey and a number of options in football. Even junk era rookies that are grading high are booming. 

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2 minutes ago, doner24 said:

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about with sports cards. All pre junk era (1984-1993ish), graded cards are booming. Jordan’s rookie has not been $20 since the 80’s and has been steadily climbing since. New cards are as hot as ever, with rookies and autos the driving force with Topps and Bowman in baseball. Prizm in basketball, Upper Deck in hockey and a number of options in football. Even junk era rookies that are grading high are booming. 

You seem to have missed my argument. Present value does not equal future value, just because a market is hot, does not mean it will continue to rise indefinitely. Also, there are different MJ rookies out there, and they all don't command the same price, this get muddied further when you consider condition and grading. The top 1-5% of any collectible market typically retains value, the remaining 95% typically die off. This can be proven with historical data.

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I was going through my stuff and I have the Sea Of Thieves Xbox One controller that I bought for $80 when it came out and I never opened it. So I looked on eBay to see if they were worth anything and noticed that the DLC Ferryman code that comes with it is selling for a lot! So I sold just the Ferryman DLC for $400 on eBay! It's crazy that a DLC code would be worth that much!

Screen Shot 2020-07-12 at 9.32.07 AM.png

Edited by stephbm6
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1 minute ago, stephbm6 said:

I was going through my stuff and I have the Sea Of Thieves Xbox One controller that I bought for $80 when it came out and I never opened it. So I looked on eBay to see if they were worth anything and noticed that the DLC Ferryman code that comes with it is selling for a lot! So I sold just the Ferryman DLC for $400 on eBay!

Screen Shot 2020-07-12 at 9.32.07 AM.png

DLC..... wow...... well to me this is the junk era of video games..... selling DLC, cases with a dlc code and some of the horrible CE’s I see coming out..... yikes

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17 minutes ago, Mr. CIB said:

DLC..... wow...... well to me this is the junk era of video games..... selling DLC, cases with a dlc code and some of the horrible CE’s I see coming out..... yikes

It's for cloths and weapon skins. Basically for whales only. 

I really don't have a problem w this era of gaming. This is someone's favorite game and it's not like the devs charges the $400 for the dlc. It's just something that a passionate player is willing to spend to have their character look distinct. 

Skins and cloths are what you should pay for in a game, not content. So long as content is released for free, I have no problem w ppl paying for skins. 

Edited by RegularGuyGamer
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17 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

It's for cloths and weapon skins. Basically for whales only. 

I really don't have a problem w this era of gaming. This is someone's favorite game and it's not like the devs charges the $400 for the dlc. It's just something that a passionate player is willing to spend to have their character look distinct. 

Skins and cloths are what you should pay for in a game, not content. So long as content is released for free, I have no problem w ppl paying for skins. 

When I get home today I will be checking 🙂 I pre-ordered this controller and put it in the closet....... Pure luck.

I don't have a problem with this era of gaming, I have a problem the direction they are going with some of the retail physical releases. I will never be for selling empty cases with DLC codes (cuphead xbox and some switch games) or most Collectors Editions that for the most part include items in a huge box for pure speculation. 

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3 hours ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Had a good laugh at the bolded.   At no point in the last 30 years has Jordan's true rookie card "trended under $20".

You're right about that, but there are so many variants of his rookie card flooding the market. Some are legitimate re-releases as far as 2008, some are reprints. If I recall correct his rookie year wasn't even in 86/87 but in 85, but they didn't produce cards at that time so most consider 1986/87 his rookie year. Regardless, there are a lot of factors why the sports cards market is booming again. I collected heavily in Hockey cards in the 90s, with some basketball and some baseball, even Marvel cards, I have 80s era Gretzky and Jordan cards (non-rookies). The market has had its ups and downs, and I stopped collecting in the 2000s because the market was pretty much dead. Certain cards were always considered valuable, but the upward and downward swings are too volatile. The same thing is happening with Magic the Gathering and Pokemon cards. I'm sure an Alpha black lotus or a Pikachu Illustrator card will always retain some value, but there's no telling what that will be 10-20 years down the road. the only ones that really locked in the profit were the ones that got in very early.

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1 hour ago, Mr. CIB said:

most Collectors Editions that for the most part include items in a huge box for pure speculation. 

Yeah I'm with you on that one. I feel like so many collectors editions are low effort. Especially given the amount of stickers and CDs that are included in some like it's 2001. I would prefer download codes to most items in CEs for OST or even exclusive wallpapers for phones / PC's.

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13 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Yeah I'm with you on that one. I feel like so many collectors editions are low effort. Especially given the amount of stickers and CDs that are included in some like it's 2001. I would prefer download codes to most items in CEs for OST or even exclusive wallpapers for phones / PC's.

Lol wallpapers and downloadable songs at that point might aswell include nothing at all. But i do agree that endless filler of CDs and posters is pretty unexciting. I think toy figures would be a great object to add like they did with the Sonic standing on a Genesis statue. Trading cards over books/artwork. I think the boxes themselves could and should be something other than regular flimsy cardboard when you're already paying premium it could be a little more exclusive.

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59 minutes ago, cartman said:

Lol wallpapers and downloadable songs at that point might aswell include nothing at all.

I mean, you're not wrong, but I'd get more milage from a song I can add to a music app that hold literally all of my music that I listen to than a CD. 

How am I supposed to even listen to a CD? Put it in my discman and go for a run? What am I supposed to do with the sticker? Put them on my mirror in the bedroom or on my trapper keeper?

They're basically non-items. At least give me something that I can actually put to use. I'm still rocking my Pokken wallpaper from my Nintendo. 

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2 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

I mean, you're not wrong, but I'd get more milage from a song I can add to a music app that hold literally all of my music that I listen to than a CD. 

How am I supposed to even listen to a CD? Put it in my discman and go for a run? What am I supposed to do with the sticker? Put them on my mirror in the bedroom or on my trapper keeper?

They're basically non-items. At least give me something that I can actually put to use. I'm still rocking my Pokken wallpaper from my Nintendo. 

Yeah but you can get a song everywhere, youtube for example. Recieving a song or wallpapeer as a purchased item has been archaic for like 2 decades lol. CDs are archaic aswell really but atleast it's an effort towards having a tangible collectible, to commemorate something. I don't think a sticker is as much filler as some other things to be honest but some high quality trading cards would be cooler.

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I've done a mass selloff before when I didn't enjoy the items I've collected.  It ended up being worth it to me.  Sold off over 2000 titles over 6 months.  I've also rebought a few things I've sold before, but overall it was a very cleansing experience and I'd suggest it if you have definitely lost interest in your items.

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I had a box of n64 doubles, and I *thought* it was a good idea to sell in early April. While I got some good money for the Mario’s, Zelda’s, etc, the market has gotten silly. 
 

With that said, I’ve put too much time, joy, and pride into buying my stuff. I will always keep a base collection ‘till I die. Some of the bulk might go to a job loss. But you’ll have to take some of my sealed N64 games, plush, and PS2 games out of my cold, dead hands. 

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I dabbled in collecting comics and saw the boom that happened with those and realized the same would eventually happen with games given how many parallels there are.  People who grew up with video games are going to only continue to gain more and more disposable income, and subsequent generations are going to revere the 1980s-2000 as sort of the golden era (this will be compounded if we ever get to full digital).  You also have franchises from that period that are still popular and will likely be into the foreseeable future, and so people will tend to hold the origin of something in the highest regard from a collecting standpoint.  Where we're at currently though is less predictable than a few years ago and so you do have a point about traditional investing, but there was definitely a clear window at one point where it was obvious certain games were under valued. 

 

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10 hours ago, stephbm6 said:

I was going through my stuff and I have the Sea Of Thieves Xbox One controller that I bought for $80 when it came out and I never opened it. So I looked on eBay to see if they were worth anything and noticed that the DLC Ferryman code that comes with it is selling for a lot! So I sold just the Ferryman DLC for $400 on eBay! It's crazy that a DLC code would be worth that much!

Screen Shot 2020-07-12 at 9.32.07 AM.png

Did you send them the actual paper or the code via message?

I actually stumbled upon one of these ( the Hard Drive one ) and didn't realize how valuable it was.  Attempting to sell anything DLC related (especially thru eBay) makes me a bit nervous though so I've just held on to it the past year.

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Well, here's my game plan as well as the things I've noticed, and my thoughts on the matter.

1. Someone mentioned earlier about investing in stocks rather than games, being safer. In the past five years or so, I decided that any game I purchased that I didn't already have, I'd keep. This is mainly from my contacts, sight unseen. If I'm getting a bag of random goodies for $15-$20 a week, what's the need for selling it? It's a hobby, it's fun, in the reverse I cannot imagine myself purchasing $20 worth of stocks weekly, seen or unseen. 

2. If you're investing so little in some of this crap, then it is quite likely some of it will pay off handsomely.

3. I just saw a Taiwan-made unlicensed Famicom game sell for about $1300, sure it was an anomaly, but to date I'd reckon this was the highest-selling commercial Famicom game, excluding promos, protos, and stuff like that.

4. The above brings me to my next point, nostalgia is not the same across region. For example, where I live, nostalgia is finally starting to catch on, with massive price increases, essentially ten years later than when it hit the States.

5. That brings me to my final point: I'm one of those guys that rarely sells or trades anything, unless it's a duplicate, or unless it's something that I care little about, trading for something I care a lot about. That being said, when prices on some items become "stupid" (like the one I mentioned above), I definitely consider selling said items.

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