Game Debate #3: Metroid

[Tanooki | 4,932]

17 hours ago, Link said:

Do you have a problem with the speedrun scene in general? I don’t think the variable endings is a problem. Maybe it was a rudimentary way of doing it but what else could you expect at that point in history? It was kind of revolutionary. And it didn’t detract fun, since you can certainly finish the game taking as much time as you need. It had no effect on playing the game at all. Just the ending screen. If you only want to play the game one time, you can beat it and be done. If you want to play it again, you can do it better and be rewarded for such. That’s awesome! That’s what Nintendo Power used to call (and one factor they rated games on) replayability, aka value for money.

I think the only other game to date that did something along those lines is Adventure (2600).

Are you seriously complaining that getting the best prize (ending) requires exceptional performance? I don’t mean to import drama, but knowing some of your political ideas I find this rather silly. And while I do love Metroid, I fucking suck at it, and have never even made it to Ridley or Kraid so don’t get me wrong like I’m talking shit about your skill. 

I find being pressured into getting the real/true ending on any game basically no better than shitting the bed to be blunt, I hate it.  Speedruns, given they're rigged anyway under various conditions to get there the fastest, I can take it or leave it really.  I don't like games with speed to succeed in getting a real ending, and equally so games where you're forced to go through extra hoops to even be properly allowed to enjoy or finish the game.  Might as well also throw out there, multiple endings, they bug me as well, especially if they force a lot of re-work or running multiple saves to pull it off, which is the only good reason I find Chrono Trigger demotivating to play eventually and why I've never finished it in the 25 years since it came out now?

I'm not touching politics, not taking that bait.  I'd rather just play the game at my pace, enjoy the game at my pace, and be able to finish it and get the ending, the true ending, that means something for all those hours of work and not get short changed because I didn't run through it at a blistering pace, or because I didn't scan a 1000 things or look under a 1000 rocks or pick up a 1000 out of the way special gems.  I'm fine if they're there, something as a bonus for those into that, which I know many are into collect-a-thon bullshit, but I'm not, and never have been.  Perhaps have it unlock a reward, such as where NES Metroid was hiding on Prime, or maybe these days, unlock some added music, costumes, whatever from the menu for extra diligence.

[Link | 2,709]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'd rather just play the game at my pace, enjoy the game at my pace,

You can do that

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

and be able to finish it and get the ending, the true ending, that means something for all those hours of work and not get short changed

If you’re just bad at the game, you’ll never finish it. If you’re good, you will. If you’re very good you get a little extra. What’s the problem with the extra? Nobody’s going to get it the first time, it’s a reason to play the game again. 

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'm fine if they're there, something as a bonus for those into that,

I guess this is the way I see it

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

many are into collect-a-thon bullshit, but I'm not, and never have been. 

Me neither! 

 

edit: I respect your decision to stay on topic. But with your choice of words like “pressured” and “forced” regarding how you play a video game especially a NES game... I just feel like I understand some other things about you more.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Link

[TDIRunner | 2,734]

For the original Metroid, I have to give it a six.  It's certainly a good game, but I've never been able to play it for very long before putting it down.  It's just missing too many things that were added to later titles to perfect the series.  I absolutely appreciate the game for what it started.  Without Metroid, we wouldn't have Super Metroid which I still consider one of the greatest games of all time.  If I were rating the music separate, I would certainly go with a 10.  

[Kguillemette | 1,544]

6/10. It's a good and solid game and very enjoyable for what it is. It is the atari of metroidvania, though. I still enjoy popping it in from time to time, I just get bored with it after about a half hour and I'm on to the next game.

[Estil | 1,264]

On 6/26/2020 at 10:47 PM, Tanooki said:

Also on the whole, the bullshit design to make it a speed runners game from day one is also a turn off I'd knock it a full point for too.  Demanding such speed and precision just to get a best ending in the franchise really ticks me off.  I hate crap like that as much as I typically loathe games that do RANK systems by stage, world, game and punish accordingly on some lame set of factors only heaps of replays (ie: being a game tester/designer) only someone with too many tries could hope to nail down.

How in the world did they "make it a speed runners game from day one"?  Was the term "speed running" or "sequence breaking" even coined yet before the Internet really caught on?  I don't think it was until several years after the Internet came to be before the possible endings/time requirements were known for certain.

[AstralSoul | 502]

The original Metroid is a good game but I just find it too difficult without a map and no save points. Love the rest of the series, however.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Cool game, but having to bomb every random block just to progress gets old fast. If there had been a map (in-game or physical) and even a subtle clue about where to bomb, I'd say 10/10. Without those things, 8/10 because it was still pretty revolutionary.

Edited June 28, 2020 by DoctorEncore

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

Love Super Metroid... An easy 10. Played it before this game so I don't have that initial experience of playing it around release. Unfortunately I think that completely ruined the game for me.. 4/10 and that's mostly just for laying the foundation for Super Metroid. 

[Tanooki | 4,932]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:14 AM, Link said:

edit: I respect your decision to stay on topic. But with your choice of words like “pressured” and “forced” regarding how you play a video game especially a NES game... I just feel like I understand some other things about you more.

Oh?  I don't follow, but if you figured something out, good?

16 hours ago, Estil said:

How in the world did they "make it a speed runners game from day one"?  Was the term "speed running" or "sequence breaking" even coined yet before the Internet really caught on?  I don't think it was until several years after the Internet came to be before the possible endings/time requirements were known for certain.

NP magazine well before the net showed off out of suit Samus and noted it took a fast play to get it.

[Sumez | 2,948]

There's no "true ending" for beating the game fast, it's just a little extra.

It's baffling to me that anyone could an criticize a game for rewarding a better performance, as if it actually makes it worse?
I've never played the first Metroid much, but Super Metroid is really fun to go for a good time in, and like @Link said, it's what really adds replayability to the game, much more than 100%'ing it.
I think I beat that game casually at least three times before even considering going for a time in it - and doing all the various sequence breaks etc. (most of which were absolutely intended by the developers, it's not something invented much later) is a lot of fun, and not just exclusively for expert "speedrunners". You don't need to get an exceptional time - seeing Samus in her swimsuit actually has an extremely forgivable threshold.

Even if I had never done that, I'd still recognize Super Metroid as a masterpiece, but the fact that it accomodates so many different ways of approaching only makes it even better. And it does it naturally and organically. Not via a lazy "do you want to play as this class or this class" while starting up the game.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Sumez

[Link | 2,709]

Metroid / Alien connection 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

Bump

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 697]

On 6/28/2020 at 7:39 PM, AstralSoul said:

The original Metroid is a good game but I just find it too difficult without a map and no save points. Love the rest of the series, however.

less difficult and more tedious for me.

6/10

[wongojack | 214]

Came back to this poll after the more recent one about Super Metroid.  I experienced Metroid brand new as it released with the other massive NES titles in the late 80's.  I always liked Zelda and Metroid better than Mario and Castlevania.  I recognized the game's faults.  Especially if you are coming at it after playing Super Metroid or Zero Mission, but for me, there was just nothing else like it on the NES.  In fact, there were very few 8-bit clones of Metroid anywhere.

This has to be a 10 from me because of how important it was in my own personal gaming history.  I made some of my own maps and also made heavy use of the Official Nintendo Player's guide.  It was a great accomplishment to beat this game bitd, and I still kinda prefer it to every other Metroid game.

[Webhead123 | 675]

Realized that I somehow never voted or commented on this one. The original Metroid is a game that has some personal meaning to me, even if I had my own issues with it. I remember it being one of the earliest rentals I made after first getting my NES. I was obsessed (and, frankly, terrified) over the haunting and lonely atmosphere that it created and that feeling was compounded by the act of getting lost within the hostile underground labyrinth that was Zebes. Every enemy felt threatening and every room was a gauntlet to overcome. I mean, the game doesn't even start you with full health! It really made me as a player feel trapped and isolated. Even the manual itself (like many great NES manuals of the day) was a work of art. So much story and atmosphere and evocative illustrations. I probably read the manual cover-to-cover a half dozen times back then.

Because of the challenge and that oppressive atmosphere, I never did get even close to finishing the game when I was younger. I inherited a copy in my teenage years and made a few more attempts to get through it and while I continued to enjoy the game, I still never got all that far. I've managed to finish the game as an adult with the help of a map and I'm glad that I did finally see it all the way through.

Though not without its flaws and limitations, it is a significant game to me. And while not in my personal top rankings on the NES, I have to respect all the ways in which it sparked my imagination and started a life-long love of the Metroid franchise.

7/10

Edited November 3, 2022 by Webhead123

[phart010 | 1,707]

When games are given “official” ratings, they are typically the rating you would have given it at the time of its launch. Of course over time, developers figure out what works and what doesn’t and they develop game design principles and concepts that are carried forward for all newer games. If a game lacks these principles, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad game… it may have just come out before these principles were discovered. 
 

You can judge a game for how good it was versus everything else that was available at its time. Or you can judge a 36 year old game against todays game design standards