Suggestions For Family Vehicle

[Splain | 2,560]

I've been using a 2006 Odyssey for a while now. Very low maintenance. Taking the middle seats out is easy enough that I don't think twice about doing it if I think I might need it.

One complaint I have is that I wish there were a cabin-light setting that turns all the lights on when you open a door, and turns them off when the doors are closed, like cars used to have. Instead, I have these three settings:
- ON: all lights are on.
- DOOR: lights are turned on or off, depending on the controls on each individual light. The openness or closedness of doors has absolutely no bearing on the on/off-ness of any light. Why it's called DOOR is a mind-boggling mystery.
- OFF: all lights are off.

So to keep the lights from staying on even after I've closed the doors and am driving down the road, I just keep it set to OFF all the time. So when it's nighttime and I'm loading/unloading kids, I'm doing it in the dark unless I manually turn on a light, which can be very inconvenient if I'm on the passenger side.

ANYWAY, we're looking at getting a new minivan, and since we rented a 2020 Sienna recently, (and liked it,) we're leaning that way currently. But for me it's definitely between the Odyssey and the Sienna.

4 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

and my other coworker with a minivan (a Toyota Sienna from within the last couple of years) regrets not getting a Honda Odyssey instead, now that he has had a few years with it.

Does he say why?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

3 minutes ago, Splain said:

 

ANYWAY, we're looking at getting a new minivan, and since we rented a 2020 Sienna recently, (and liked it,) we're leaning that way currently. But for me it's definitely between the Odyssey and the Sienna.

Does he say why?

Sorry I don't recall the specifics -- just that he said if he had to do it over again he'd get the Odyssey.

Worth mentioning that this guy has something like 6 kids, so he's dealing with a full van, and it may have to do with car seat loading and access.  Though it's also possible that he only takes the full crew out in his full-sized van (one of those big-ass Nissan's)

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

3 hours ago, Splain said:

I've been using a 2006 Odyssey for a while now. Very low maintenance. Taking the middle seats out is easy enough that I don't think twice about doing it if I think I might need it.

One complaint I have is that I wish there were a cabin-light setting that turns all the lights on when you open a door, and turns them off when the doors are closed, like cars used to have. Instead, I have these three settings:
- ON: all lights are on.
- DOOR: lights are turned on or off, depending on the controls on each individual light. The openness or closedness of doors has absolutely no bearing on the on/off-ness of any light. Why it's called DOOR is a mind-boggling mystery.
- OFF: all lights are off.

So to keep the lights from staying on even after I've closed the doors and am driving down the road, I just keep it set to OFF all the time. So when it's nighttime and I'm loading/unloading kids, I'm doing it in the dark unless I manually turn on a light, which can be very inconvenient if I'm on the passenger side.

ANYWAY, we're looking at getting a new minivan, and since we rented a 2020 Sienna recently, (and liked it,) we're leaning that way currently. But for me it's definitely between the Odyssey and the Sienna.

Does he say why?

Hey, I’m pretty sure that my 2021 Odyssey turns on all of the lights when you open a door when set to door settings. 
 

As far as the Sienna goes, 2021 is a brand new generation. The last generation started in 2010 and finished in 2020. My wife was very particular on safety and the Siennas didn’t do so well on the small overlap passenger side crash test until the 2021 revision. This would be if the passenger side clipped an object near the headlight. I think it was acceptable or marginal in performance and was good in 2021. The Honda has been good since this current generation started in 2018.

I think the Odyssey seats are more comfortable, the middle row seats in the 2021 Sienna cannot be removed due to air bags, and I find the Sienna brakes to be really difficult to gauge due to the hybrid engine which actually has the electric part of the engine going in reverse while you slow down. The Sienna ride isn’t as quiet or smooth at the Honda and some of the interior touches like the seats, steering wheel, and console feel cheaper in quality than the Odyssey. The Sienna’s AWD is something we really wanted, but the Odyssey does have a snow mode which transmits power to the rear wheels. The Sienna AWD is electrical, not mechanical and I believe that is a new feature. I like the touch screen of the Sienna better. The 2021 Sienna is hybrid and more expensive than Odyssey. I was able to get a touring Odyssey for about $3.5K less than an AWD XLE Sienna. The touring Odyssey came with a blu ray player entertainment system. That is optional on the Sienna. To get a comparable FWD Sienna, I would have had to add another $5-$6K, bringing up the difference to about $8.5-$9.5K.  I couldn’t justify paying that much more. If I added AWD, I would have been looking at $10-$11.5K more. For me, excluding the entertainment center, I was looking at about $8K higher with the Sienna to get the leather seats for my kids. It was too much, especially since the middle row doesn’t come out. That’s just my two sense. From my understanding, they’re both great and reliable minivans.

[Hammerfestus | 3,819]

This threads totally gonna come in handy.  We’ve been talking about getting a van or something this fall.

[Kguillemette | 1,543]

11 hours ago, captmorgandrinker said:

For you Odyssey peeps- how easy is it to get the seats in and out if you need to remove them for cargo?

Stow n Go is the main reason I'm a fan of the Chrysler T&C/Pacifica; can whip those bitches into the floor with ease to load up for video game conventions.

Stow and go seats are my best friend. Being able to very quickly load 3 kids plus a medium sized piece of furniture with still room for groceries makes the days errands that much quicker! Plus being able to fold down half of the third row to force my older two to separate on long car rides has been crucial. They love to have loud fights in the middle of rush hour traffic.

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

11 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

Stow and go seats are my best friend. Being able to very quickly load 3 kids plus a medium sized piece of furniture with still room for groceries makes the days errands that much quicker! Plus being able to fold down half of the third row to force my older two to separate on long car rides has been crucial. They love to have loud fights in the middle of rush hour traffic.

 

I thought all of the minivans offered this functionality for the 3rd row (split, floor-stowable 3rd row bench) which opens up the majority of the storage space - or offers rear-hatch access to someone sitting in the rear bench if the middle seats are occupied or obstructed.

 

[TDIRunner | 2,721]

3 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

I thought all of the minivans offered this functionality for the 3rd row (split, floor-stowable 3rd row bench) which opens up the majority of the storage space - or offers rear-hatch access to someone sitting in the rear bench if the middle seats are occupied or obstructed.

 

You are correct.  However, the Stow & Go function allows the same thing with the second row of seats.  The Chrysler minivan is the only model that allows you to stow the second row without removing the seats.  It's an extremely useful option to have, but admittedly it doesn't get used much if you have kids in child seats (the seats need to be removed to stow the seats).  The advantage to the system, even if you never stow the seats is that you have an enormous amount of storage underneath the seats when they are in the up position.  

Another nice thing about the Chrysler is that the new model will offer go back to offering AWD which means that Toyota is no longer the only current minivan with an AWD option.  

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

18 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

You are correct.  However, the Stow & Go function allows the same thing with the second row of seats.  The Chrysler minivan is the only model that allows you to stow the second row without removing the seats.  It's an extremely useful option to have, but admittedly it doesn't get used much if you have kids in child seats (the seats need to be removed to stow the seats).  The advantage to the system, even if you never stow the seats is that you have an enormous amount of storage underneath the seats when they are in the up position.  

Another nice thing about the Chrysler is that the new model will offer go back to offering AWD which means that Toyota is no longer the only current minivan with an AWD option.  

Yes, I know what "stow and go" is.

The Kia Sedona gets most of the way there, as well, since their middle-seat buckets fold up and the seats slide fully forward against the front seats.

In both cases, the compromise is that the middle seats can't be as plush as the captain's chairs in either the Odyssey or the Sienna.

And while I originally thought I would want that functionality -- in the 6 months I've been using my parents' old van (including a rather long road trip and a final move of old stuff when my mom was selling her old house) I think I've realized that my need to remove the middle seats is rare enough that just folding down the back and sliding the middle seats forward meets my needs.

 

EDIT: though, separately, I can understand the AWD feature being important to those of you further north.  Doesn't really matter so much where I am (and further south) outside of the trade involving worse gas mileage and different tire wear.

Edited January 20, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[TDIRunner | 2,721]

Just now, arch_8ngel said:

Yes, I know what "stow and go" is.

The Kia Sedona gets most of the way there, as well, since their middle-seat buckets fold up and the seats slide fully forward against the front seats.

In both cases, the compromise is that the middle seats can't be as plush as the captain's chairs in either the Odyssey or the Sienna.

Yes, but those seats are still there.  I can tell you from experience that it makes a huge difference if you are using the van to move stuff around.  

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Yes, but those seats are still there.  I can tell you from experience that it makes a huge difference if you are using the van to move stuff around.  

In the case of the Sedona it certainly LOOKS LIKE they manage to squash those seats into about 6" worth of the mid-cabin. (have only looked at the marketing pictures -- haven't seen the functionality in person)

That is a pretty small fraction of the total cargo bay to where for practical purposes it is likely negligible.

 

But personally, having had a lot of road trips as a kid - I'd rather go with the more comfortable middle seats that I have to take out the once or twice per year that I need them fully removed.

Edited January 20, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Boosted52405 | 178]

One question to ask - do you want the vehicle to run good during the warranty period, or also after?

Kia/Hyundai unfortunately do not have a good track record with high mileage vehicles.  I play pokemon go with a local player who is a mechanic for them, he spends the majority of his days doing full engine swaps that are under warranty.  I made a comment to him about how crazy this is, and he goes "well hey the customer doesn't have to pay for it".

For Chrysler, I'd be hell bent on giving my money to a company that is being whored around and bought from company to company.  The only thing they are doing remotely right as a whole is Jeep and Ram.  Chrysler only exists because of Jeep and Ram, they have been doing soooooo bad this last decade or two.

It still shocks me that Chevy and Ford left the minivan game a long time ago.  I've grown to also not like GM's quality of things, and I had a 2015 Ford Flex that had way too many problems under warranty.

I would absolutely stick to Toyota and Honda, and avoid CVT transmissions at all costs. And do the maintenance by the book.

If you're just wanting something covered under warranty then maybe take a chance at the other crap.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Boosted52405

[Tulpa | 3,488]

6 minutes ago, Boosted52405 said:

It still shocks me that Chevy and Ford left the minivan game a long time ago. 

Ford actually still makes minivans, just not on this side of the pond. Ford Europe still makes the Transit Courier and a couple other van-like vehicles.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

7 minutes ago, Boosted52405 said:

 

I would absolutely stick to Toyota and Honda, and avoid CVT transmissions at all costs. And do the maintenance by the book.

 

Honda minivans have definitely consistently rated highest in reliability.  And surprisingly the Kia Sedona has generally rated better than the Chrysler Pacifica (though I don't know over what period of ownership/mileage Consumer Reports was making those claims - and whether that rating is specific to top trim packages where you generally have a lot more technology to break over the years)

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 minute ago, Tulpa said:

Ford actually still makes minivans, just not on this side of the pond. Ford Europe still makes the Transit Courier and a couple other van-like vehicles.

You can buy the Transit Connect in the USA, still, can't you?  (similar Euro-van style to the small version of the Nissan vans)

They're definitely smaller than the rest of the minivan platforms, though -- so it isn't a 1:1 comparison.

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

17 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Honda minivans have definitely consistently rated highest in reliability.  And surprisingly the Kia Sedona has generally rated better than the Chrysler Pacifica (though I don't know over what period of ownership/mileage Consumer Reports was making those claims - and whether that rating is specific to top trim packages where you generally have a lot more technology to break over the years)

Chrysler has been known for poor quality for at least three decades. My family bought a Town & Country back in 1998 and the Chrysler mechanic told us back then that they were built to last only about 100K miles. Meanwhile, our 93 Mercury Villager made it to 270K miles. I refuse to buy Chrysler.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

I guess you can get the Transit Courier here. I thought they'd ended it when they went to a largely SUV/Mustang lineup. It's my understanding that they're manufactured in Europe, though (Turkey, I think.)

Yeah, Europe vans are smaller than American market ones. Probably because of how the cities are laid out.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tulpa

[Kguillemette | 1,543]

1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

I thought all of the minivans offered this functionality for the 3rd row (split, floor-stowable 3rd row bench) which opens up the majority of the storage space - or offers rear-hatch access to someone sitting in the rear bench if the middle seats are occupied or obstructed.

 

You are absolutely correct as far as I am aware. However, the speed of being able to make adjustments quickly in a frigid New England climate for things like large dump runs makes me not want to go back to anything else. It's almost like having the utility of a pickup truck combined with the comfort and convenience of having a third row for long car rides.

That being said, at some point in the future I will be looking into a full size SUV with a third row plus considerable towing capacity. I'll be needing that for sure if I am to launch a food truck. It's a lot cheaper to renovate a trailer than an actual truck.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

12 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I guess you can get the Transit Courier here. I thought they'd ended it when they went to a largely SUV/Mustang lineup. It's my understanding that they're manufactured in Europe, though (Turkey, I think.)

Yeah, Europe vans are smaller than American market ones. Probably because of how the cities are laid out.

 

In the USA - at least over the last 8 years, or so - it was called the "Transit Connect".  (where the "Transit" is the full size van of similar shape "just bigger")

[TDIRunner | 2,721]

28 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I guess you can get the Transit Courier here. 

It's my understanding that they're manufactured in Europe, though (Turkey, I think.)

 

 

They used to be manufactured in Turkey.  Funny story is at that time, the Transit vans were assembled in Turkey with windows and back seats so that they would qualify as passenger vehicles and avoid the chicken tax.  Once the vehicles arrived in the US, the seats and windows were removed and replaced with panels and a solid floor and sold as "light trucks."  Believe it or not, it was cheaper to go through all of that than pay the chicken tax.  As the sales for those vans started to go up, I'm pretty sure they  opened a plant somewhere in NA to avoid that all together.    Edit.  It turns out they are still doing this practice, but they did get into some trouble for it.  

Edited January 20, 2021 by TDIRunner

[Estil | 1,261]

Boy it's too bad sometimes I'm not a licensed driver nor could we afford to maintain a vehicle...because to have a shiny black 80s Cadillac with the most futuristic digital dashboard possible would totally rock.   Driving around with FUTURE style!  

[Tabonga | 2,313]

42 minutes ago, Estil said:

Boy it's too bad sometimes I'm not a licensed driver nor could we afford to maintain a vehicle...because to have a shiny black 80s Cadillac with the most futuristic digital dashboard possible would totally rock.   Driving around with FUTURE style!  

As long as it was not a 1981!  Mrs. Tabonga's mother had one and it was a nightmare.  Virtually all of the Cadillacs that year* had a godawful engine that had a miserable variable cylinder system where the engine would operate on either 8, 6 or 4 cylinders in an effort to save fuel**.  As a result the thing would constantly change the number of  cylinders being used according to some arcane mystic formula the computer (that term is being used generously since it really wasn't up to the task - I think an abacus would have performed better) conjured up.  As a result it had absolutely no acceleration which was extremely problematic when you wanted to perform a task as simple as merging into traffic.  The digital readouts would not give you a reading as to how much gas was actually in the tank - it gave you an estimate of the range you had - so you would be plugging along on 4 cylinders and you had say a couple of hundred miles - if and when you managed to get the behemoth to run on 8 cylinders the estimated fuel range would drop to say under  50 miles. So you never knew how much fuel was in (or more importantly perhaps not in) the tank.  I think Cadillac replaced some engines or offered to disconnect the system so the cars ran on 8 cylinders only.  A more miserable vehicle I have never driven.

*The Sevilles could be ordered with a reportedly equally problematic V-8 diesel.

**The beast got terrible terrible mileage anyway.

 

 

[Tulpa | 3,488]

It wasn't that long ago that a Lincoln Towncar was my dream car. I hope Lincoln brings that nameplate back at some point.

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

Just now, Tulpa said:

It wasn't that long ago that a Lincoln Towncar was my dream car. I hope Lincoln brings that nameplate back at some point.

 

Hey, it's good enough for Warren Buffett.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

12 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

As long as it was not a 1981!  Mrs. Tabonga's mother had one and it was a nightmare.  Virtually all of the Cadillacs that year* had a godawful engine that had a miserable variable cylinder system where the engine would operate on either 8, 6 or 4 cylinders in an effort to save fuel**.

 

Oh, yeah, the ol' L62 V8. Neat idea, but yeah, never worked as promised.

[Tabonga | 2,313]

Just now, Tulpa said:

Oh, yeah, the ol' L62 V8. Neat idea, but yeah, never worked as promised.

I drove a Fiat 600 with a 26 hp engine that was less problematic than that thing (and the Fiat would not go over 40 mph - unless you were on the downside of a steep hill in which case you might hit 45) for several years.