NES game contents database and long term goals for databases

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:10 AM, Divingninja said:

Exciting Thread. Is this database going to also be turned into a checklist for people to track their collections with all the variations for cart, manual, boxes, and inserts as well?

I agree with @0xDEAFC0DE on this one. You already have that feature in so many other places that, while I agree it would be cool and convenient, it shouldn't be a primary focus this early on. But as I've said before, throwing ideas for features out to see what sticks isn't a bad thing, and it certainly helps to discuss those ideas to determine which direction we want to take this project in.

[Divingninja | 47]

2 minutes ago, LaytToTheParty said:

I agree with @0xDEAFC0DE on this one. You already have that feature in so many other places that, while I agree it would be cool and convenient, it shouldn't be a primary focus this early on. But as I've said before, throwing ideas for features out to see what sticks isn't a bad thing, and it certainly helps to discuss those ideas to determine which direction we want to take this project in.

But if this database is created with information not available in any other collection tool, people might head this way to use it and contribute content to it if they are tracking their collection with it.

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

1 minute ago, Divingninja said:

But if this database is created with information not available in any other collection tool, people might head this way to use it and contribute content to it if they are tracking their collection with it.

That is very true. However, I don't think it should be a priority atm. We have yet to even get the database up and on the site for easy access, let alone start adding features. Any tools in particular you're thinking of? I could totally model a collection tracker prototype around a certain app. It's not like I've got anything better to do

[Tulpa | 3,492]

55 minutes ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

So, we already have a homebrew database. I think at first we should not add homebrews to this database. Then when we get this database up and running, we can evaluate if it makes sense to merge them or keep them separate. 

 

That's fair, but if you want a comprehensive database, you need EVERYTHING. That way nothing is left out due to the weird quirks of the NES library.

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

4 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

That's fair, but if you want a comprehensive database, you need EVERYTHING. That way nothing is left out due to the weird quirks of the NES library.

Yes, I definitely agree. The more I look at the homebrew database, the more I see that it has different goals than what we are building towards with this database. So maybe it'll be better to have separate entries in both databases that link to each other.

[NESfiend | 1,515]

Before commenting, I should make it clear I don't understand web development at all. I also haven't explored other forums/info sources like most here have  I'm way out of my league on this topic in general, but heres a couple thoughts after going through everything 

Boards - bootgod is awesome, but it has had issues where its been down over the years and I don't know if its actively being managed. I always thought NA should have board pics of every game. I also don't know of a SNES equivalent to bootgod, so that would be nice. 

Inserts - probably not feasible, but Id love to be wrong on that. Havent done a ton of CIB collecting, but when I do I like all the original inserts. I have seen a couple very incomplete sources. My understanding though is the problem is a game may have gone through several changes in what inserts were included over the years. That seems like it would be crazy to track, but again, id love to be wrong. 

Unlicensed NES - really bothers me to see everyone talk about only including licnesed games for NES. That was a really helpful part of NA database and its a FUN rabbithole to go down collecting. Also, most of us know what's unlicensed as opposed to pirate/homebrew etc. I learned from NA. I actually learned about NA when an eBay seller referred me to the database to prove he hadn't sold me a fake game.  He had sold me a pirate. As years go on, it's going to be harder and harder for people who aren't us to know the difference between unliscensed and things like pirates/multicarts, homebrews, strange looking foreign carts, etc. I know everyone has heard me rant about what an interesting part of NES history unlicensed games were. Even if you disagree on interesting or great, it's still a part of the history and should be preserved and documented for future people who get into the hobby 

Edit: Also, until I read this thread I had no idea @Gloves owned and ran the site. Thats really awesome and provides amazing hope for the future. Ill try to scroll down past site events more often now

Edited May 28, 2020 by NESfiend

[Tulpa | 3,492]

27 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

 

Boards - bootgod is awesome, but it has had issues where its been down over the years and I don't know if its actively being managed. I always thought NA should have board pics of every game. I also don't know of a SNES equivalent to bootgod, so that would be nice. 

 

Board pics would be great, but keep in mind that some games had different board revisions. You'd have to include them all.

Snescentral com has SNES board pics.

[Joshua Rogers | 77]

So I thought I would update on my side of things.

I have said before that: 1) I was mostly interested in everything EXCEPT for NTSC/USA games. 2) I would not be interested in letting users register and choose 'i have this', etc.

I have changed these opinions and now, and rather think a community-driven database which users are publicly acknowledged for their help is better. That is to say, users will be able to: register, and create 'local' databases (which they can do whatever they want to, it doesnt affect the global database.). They will also be able to 'create a new game' with the option to submit it to an admin (e.g. me), to be added globally. If I accept this new game, they will be given some points which will be displayed on a high score. They will also be able to submit changes to items, and if those changes are accepted they will be given credit for the information and get some points too.

This can be extended beyond the NES fairly easy but for the time being, the NES is the main focus to get everything working..Thus far, the functionality includes tracking:

boxes: code, languages on box, styrofoam block type('white_large_standard','white_small_standard','half_blue','cardboard','mini_monster','none','unknown'), hangtab box?, description, notes
manuals: code, languages in manual, description, notes
carts: code, cic, languages (languages available in the game?), bootgod id, screws, game speed, music speed, backplate code(not the punched number but rather like EAI, not sure how it works for ntsc games), backplate color(aka battery?),description, notes
inserts: name, code,languages, description,description, notes
developers: name, location, wikipedia link, gdri link,description, notes
publishers: name, location, wikipedia link,description, notes
master (this holds all the information about each /game/ (i.e. the 'idea' of the game, not physically)name, developers, tcrf link, vgmpf link, wikipedia link, short game descrption,notes.

the main page of each game will contain (which i call 'regionals'): everything from 'master', regional name, countries sold in, variant name, everything from 'boxes', everything from 'manuals', everything from 'carts', inserts, distributor name, everything from 'publishers', sleeve type('nintendo_smooth','nintendo_textured','nintendo_shiny','black_smooth','black_textured','none','unknown'), seal type ('matte_nintendo_sticker','gloss_nintendo_sticker','red_strip','red_nintendo_strip','white_nintendo_sticker','h_seam','vertical_overlap_seam','blister_pack','none','unknown'), UPC (funny that this actually changes a lot between regions), whether it has been 100% verified (e.g. sealed copy has been opened.), description, notes

the hierarchy of 'regionals'. e.g. if you search "A boy and his blob", it will appear like this:

[usa] a boy and his blob nes-b5-usa Nintendo
[gbr] a boy and his blob nes-b5-ukv Bandai UK
  | - - - - - [gbr] a boy and his blob (white sticker seal) nes-b5-ukv Bandai UK
[aus] a boy and his blob nes-b5-gbr Mattel pty ltd.
[....]..
where usa,gbr,aus are flags. Or for something with more variants like the Battletoads that I discussed before..
[AUS] Battletoads nes-8t-aus Mattel(distributor)
[AUS] Battletoads nes-8t-aus Metro Games
    | - - - - - [AUS] Battletoads (K-Mart / Metro Games Competition Sticker) nes-8t-aus Metro Games
    | - - - - - [AUS] Battletoads (Metro Games Sticker) nes-8t-aus Metro Games
[GBR] Battletoads nes-8t-ukv  Bandai UK
[ITA] Battletoads nes-8t-ita Leader S.r.l
[...]

Probably more information but the most important info for me is: country, code, distributor. At the bottom of each page will list all variants like this too, just like NA.
When you then go to each variants' page, it would list everything as said before, plus some 'credits' for users that helped. I may consider making pages just for individual items (cart, id, manual, insert, all devs/publishers/distributors i.e. talk a bit about them like a blog/wiki.) We of course will be using a shared system in that, from the list before, all the AUS battletoads will have the same page (they are the same id), since there is no difference between the carts used for AUS battletoads (Ok actually there is, the back of the Mattel version has an 07 stamp while the back of the metro games one has 08... but not sure if i want to get into that :/)




Do other people have anything that may want to add to this? Thoughts from other people? Happy birthday d34dc0d3.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Joshua Rogers

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

11 hours ago, Joshua Rogers said:

2) I would not be interested in letting users register and choose 'i have this', etc.

I have changed these opinions and now, and rather think a community-driven database which users are publicly acknowledged for their help is better. That is to say, users will be able to: register, and create 'local' databases (which they can do whatever they want to, it doesnt affect the global database.). They will also be able to 'create a new game' with the option to submit it to an admin (e.g. me), to be added globally. If I accept this new game, they will be given some points which will be displayed on a high score. They will also be able to submit changes to items, and if those changes are accepted they will be given credit for the information and get some points too.

Probably more information but the most important info for me is: country, code, distributor.

Personally, I don't really care for the "I have this" feature, but it seems like something that a lot of people will want, so I still think we should implement it at some point.

A "leaderboard" for adding to the database would be awesome! It sounds like a great "reward" for contributing info. You could have an all-time leaderboard and a weekly/monthly leaderboard.

We should also add a date to each entry.

[Joshua Rogers | 77]

48 minutes ago, LaytToTheParty said:

Personally, I don't really care for the "I have this" feature, but it seems like something that a lot of people will want, so I still think we should implement it at some point.

A "leaderboard" for adding to the database would be awesome! It sounds like a great "reward" for contributing info. You could have an all-time leaderboard and a weekly/monthly leaderboard.

We should also add a date to each entry.

A date for what?

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

3 minutes ago, Joshua Rogers said:

A date for what?

Release date, sorry. I should have been more specific. Either down to the year or down to the month.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

2 hours ago, LaytToTheParty said:

Release date, sorry. I should have been more specific. Either down to the year or down to the month.

Give the choice. Some games we have it down to the day, but others we just have a year.

There should also be a "disputed" or "best guess" caveat. The first SMB game would be one of these.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tulpa

[PasseGaming | 28]

I couldn't find a reference to it but rarity rating would be nice. I used the NintendoAge rarity rating often. It's actually how I discovered NintendoAge had fallen.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Just now, PasseGaming said:

I couldn't find a reference to it but rarity rating would be nice. I used the NintendoAge rarity rating often. It's actually how I discovered NintendoAge had fallen.

The rarity was kind of out of date by the time Nintendoage fell, and no one could agree on some of them anyway.

[PasseGaming | 28]

15 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

The rarity was kind of out of date by the time Nintendoage fell, and no one could agree on some of them anyway.

Well, I didn't expect it to be concrete but it did offer a solid guide as to what as out there and how much of it. It was a pretty solid guide... maybe we could make it more vague as opposed to hard numbers? Like Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Good Luck. That would suffice. 

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

17 minutes ago, PasseGaming said:

Well, I didn't expect it to be concrete but it did offer a solid guide as to what as out there and how much of it. It was a pretty solid guide... maybe we could make it more vague as opposed to hard numbers? Like Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Good Luck. That would suffice. 

I love that "Good Luck" rating. Some things like Sculptor's Cut aren't very rare, I mean, they're uncommon, but the price tag is due to high demand/resellers.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Yeah, rarity is sometimes very subjective.

It also doesn't indicate regional bias. Like Texas had a (comparative) ton of Myriad 6-in-1 because they probably divested the stock in the Dallas area. Action 52 had a similar situation in Florida. Admittedly eBay has helped disperse some of it, but quirky stuff like that does happen.

I understand wanting it, but I think it would not be accurate enough no matter what you tried to do.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tulpa

[PasseGaming | 28]

51 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Yeah, rarity is sometimes very subjective.

It also doesn't indicate regional bias. Like Texas had a (comparative) ton of Myriad 6-in-1 because they probably divested the stock in the Dallas area. Action 52 had a similar situation in Florida. Admittedly eBay has helped disperse some of it, but quirky stuff like that does happen.

I understand wanting it, but I think it would not be accurate enough no matter what you tried to do.

Fair enough, I was just tossing it out there. Trying to remember what I liked about the other sites database.

[Joshua Rogers | 77]

4 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Give the choice. Some games we have it down to the day, but others we just have a year.

There should also be a "disputed" or "best guess" caveat. The first SMB game would be one of these.

I sort of deliberately left out any release date schema. It ..could.. be imported from bootgod, I guess. I don't think there are more than say 10 games outside the black box series that the release /date/ is known actually. And to be honest, I think release dates for the NES aren't meaningful since even in the US, releases were so segmented.. One part of the country got the game on month, other parts of the country got the game other months.. I don't think there was any publicized release dates until sonic 2sday/mortal monday.. If we use flyers or whatever, we know that in many cases games were not actually available when they were printed, which leads to some publications listing games that were never released, so that's not a great way to get dates either. Maybe if it's imported from bootgod it could be assigned Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 [year] of the earliest pcb..

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

Just do month and year for licensed NES releases.  That much is known.  I contributed my file to the NA magazine many years ago, and I could send it to someone or post it here if necessary...

Edited May 30, 2020 by Dr. Morbis

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Just noticed this thread, and here's my $0.02.

For a forum database, I think you guys are asking for too much granularity.

In a forum setting, I think a simple list would work. Make 1 page for each title, and in that page have all its variant info listed.

 

But what you guys want to do here, is pretty similar to what I want to do as well.

My ideal system would take a reverse approach to archival, by allowing the list to build itself by archiving everything that does exist, in a physical sense.

Scan a cartridge, box, and manual and they receive all their own unique ID's which itself can then be associated with a title.

Take those ID's and bundle them together and you have an archived release variant. This allows infinite flexibility since some games have the same components across different releases.

Take FFF Athletic World, and Circle Seal Athletic World. Different boxes and manuals, but same cartridges!

[T-Pac | 7,534]

Although this whole database thing is a bit outside of my wheelhouse, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents as well...

I think it's important to put a release year for each entry, even if it's just based on the copyright info from the game's title screen. I've never cared about product codes or inserts or anything, but I'm always eager to know what year something was released.

-CasualCart

[Joshua Rogers | 77]

5 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

My ideal system would take a reverse approach to archival, by allowing the list to build itself by archiving everything that does exist, in a physical sense.
Scan a cartridge, box, and manual and they receive all their own unique ID's which itself can then be associated with a title.
Take those ID's and bundle them together and you have an archived release variant. This allows infinite flexibility since some games have the same components across different releases.
Take FFF Athletic World, and Circle Seal Athletic World. Different boxes and manuals, but same cartridges!

That is exactly how my system works. Lots and lots of pal-a carts that are exactly the same between regions but with different boxes and manuals. No need to create more entries for the same cart, they all link to the same thing. This way if a page for the cart is made, it could able be shown "What did this cartridge come in?"

Edited May 30, 2020 by Joshua Rogers

[NESfiend | 1,515]

On 5/29/2020 at 11:22 AM, Tulpa said:

The rarity was kind of out of date by the time Nintendoage fell, and no one could agree on some of them anyway.

I'm with at @PasseGaming. Even knowing NAs was out of date and in need for an update, I found it really useful. Most rarity guides are too price dependent. NA did a really good job of grading without too much regard for price. It was a great reference as a buyer

Edited May 31, 2020 by NESfiend

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

5 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

I'm with at @PasseGaming. Even knowing NAs was out of date and in need for an update, I found it really useful. Most rarity guides are too price dependent. NA did a really good job of grading without too much regard for price. It was a great reference as a buyer

If you want a NES rarity guide then here’s my attempt at it.

I SHOULD update the pricing and finish the rest of the unlicensed stuff.