Salvaging Threads and Resources from NintendoAge

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

27 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I know that the old database no one could even be bothered to get the developer categories right.

I never knew that Konami developed Mega Man for Capcom to publish.

Yeah, it was that level of screwed up.

Like @Gloves mentioned, we can make lists and such. I just want the resources that are purely fact-based. Like the "contents of NES games" and "complete list of Nintendo Power inserts" type stuff. I can't see how people wouldn't want this information readily available, unless they already have their own homemade lists?

[Link | 2,708]

A few people have mentioned creating a database. If everyone who has the ability could collaborate, they could build something pretty cool.

A subforum is not a good format for that kind of information, imo

I tried to save a copy of the old forums, but there was a link depth limit in the archiving program so it didn’t go very far.

 

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

@Link That's exactly what I want to do. Make new lists, salvage old lists, collaborate and share info, discuss our passion for gaming. We could get the mods to add a new "database" section specifically for this purpose.

[NESfiend | 1,514]

5 hours ago, Penguin said:

It was tough losing the site.  I’m sad there’s so much information and so many memories on that site that are very hard to even navigate.  Not going to lie I shed a tear when the site closed.

Ditto. And im more concerned with thread content then the database. It was great, but with the level of collectors here, I'm sure we could recreate that over time. I had read that you could use your NA log in and get access to all the old threads. When I logged in, I fell down a rabithole reading posts from former NA people trolling. For the record, I was not one of them and support the mods discouraging that type of behavior. Did make me smile seeing that was pretty much the only threads going there though. 

I haven't got back in to try to view old threads. Are they all there and reasonably searchable?

Edited May 20, 2020 by NESfiend

[Link | 2,708]

Making lists is the easy part. I would participate in that. It’s the database framework to put lists into, that needs to be written by people who know how to program. And it would need to be compatible with the forum software.

A bunch of threads formatted and designed by different people and only editable by the OP doesn’t work very well for consistent and persistent information. 

[Gloves | 11,759]

7 minutes ago, Link said:

Making lists is the easy part. I would participate in that. It’s the database framework to put lists into, that needs to be written by people who know how to program. And it would need to be compatible with the forum software.

A bunch of threads formatted and designed by different people and only editable by the OP doesn’t work very well for consistent and persistent information. 

Have you seen the retro game stores and homebrew games database we've already released on VGS? 

The hard part would be if we wanted dynamic data like prices etc.. 

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

Hmmm... how do we get the ball rolling? I can do some HTML and a bit of CSS. What software is this forum built upon? We also need to get the mods on board, which shouldn't be hard to do. Before making anything we should probably reformat that "Big List of Lists" post into a database.

I think we should also have some form of commenting on the database, but comments should not have as big of a presence as they do on normal forum posts. Comments would mainly be for reporting and fixing any errors (typos, inaccuracies, ect).

@Gloves Edit: I think dynamic data like prices and current supply would not be a good idea. I can't speak for everyone, but personally I rather be adding new data on different subjects, data that very rarely changes, than adding contstant updates to old data. That's just my personal preference, though.

Edited May 20, 2020 by LaytToTheParty

[Gloves | 11,759]

5 minutes ago, LaytToTheParty said:

Hmmm... how do we get the ball rolling? I can do some HTML and a bit of CSS. What software is this forum built upon? We also need to get the mods on boars, which shouldn't be hard to do. Before making anything we should probably reformat that "Big List of Lists" post into a database.

I think we should also have some form of commenting on the database, but comments should not have as big of a presence as they do on normal forum posts. Comments would mainly be for reporting and fixing any errors (typos, inaccuracies, ect).

@Gloves Edit: I think dynamic data like prices and current supply would not be a good idea. I can't speak for everyone, but personally I rather be adding new data on different subjects, data that very rarely changes, than adding contstant updates to old data. That's just my personal preference, though.

You're new no I can't blame you not knowing but we DO have some databases on here already. Check the main menu under "databases" to see what kind of stuff we can do with this forum software. 

I can do even more (I'm a senior full Stack developer), but we need to be mindful of not wasting user's time and effort etc.. 

For reference the forum software is Invision Community. 

I've been pretty against "rebuilding the wheel" but looking at the data some users have been providing I'm starting to come around to the idea that we could maybe do it better than exists elsewhere. 

[Tulpa | 3,488]

47 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

 

I haven't got back in to try to view old threads. Are they all there and reasonably searchable?

@NESfiend

No, they are a complete mess. 

Posts and quotes are squished together, you can't tell who quoted who, searching is a joke (no prioritized results or coherent order), no images, and no searching by poster.

It's worthless.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Tulpa

[NESfiend | 1,514]

1 minute ago, Tulpa said:

No, they are a complete mess. 

It's worthless.

Par for the course

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Yep, GoCollect pretty much destroyed it. They may as well have just deleted everything.

[theanalogkid | 4]

Such a tough thing. The records, the feedback. All that jazz. Such a resource. Heck, even the dialogue/messages with members. Wish it were otherwise, a real loss.

[Mega Tank | 955]

3 hours ago, LaytToTheParty said:

We also need to get the mods on boars

All of this sounds interesting, but this takes the cake.

[Tanooki | 4,929]

I'm curious, I don't have a copy of the old NA TOS you have to supposedly read before agreeing to sign up.  Does it anywhere on there legally bind any typed, picture, or other created works as their property or co-owned once it is stored on their servers?  If it does, then the e-zine would be off limits, as would anyone else's personal verifiable work that went into the various assets there including just simple thoughts put into a post to something complex like someone tracking a database in a forum thread.

If the TOS doesn't legally give them a right to it, then what they ultimately bought was the forum bones, the game rarity etc databases that were setup, and not a whole lot less IF the various users who created X data cared to lift it for their own future use being the makers.

Figure that out, then you'll know what you can and can't get away with legally speaking.

[Gloves | 11,759]

14 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I'm curious, I don't have a copy of the old NA TOS you have to supposedly read before agreeing to sign up.  Does it anywhere on there legally bind any typed, picture, or other created works as their property or co-owned once it is stored on their servers?  If it does, then the e-zine would be off limits, as would anyone else's personal verifiable work that went into the various assets there including just simple thoughts put into a post to something complex like someone tracking a database in a forum thread.

If the TOS doesn't legally give them a right to it, then what they ultimately bought was the forum bones, the game rarity etc databases that were setup, and not a whole lot less IF the various users who created X data cared to lift it for their own future use being the makers.

Figure that out, then you'll know what you can and can't get away with legally speaking.

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Both you and Bucket Head acknowledge and agree that no partnership, agency, joint venture, or employment relationship is formed between you and Bucket Head by your use of a Site, and neither you nor Bucket Head have the power or the authority to obligate or bind the other. You acknowledge and agree that no person or company shall be third party beneficiaries to the Terms.

The Terms, and your relationship with Bucket Head under the Terms, shall be governed by the laws of the State of North Carolina without regard to its conflict of laws provisions. You agree that sole and exclusive jurisdiction and venue for any claim, cause of action or dispute arising out of or relating to these Terms or a Site shall be in a state or federal court in Durham County, North Carolina. Notwithstanding this, you agree that Bucket Head shall be allowed to apply for injunctive remedies (or an equivalent type of urgent legal relief) in any jurisdiction.

The section titles in the Terms are for convenience only and have no legal effect.

 

For reference, here's the part you're looking for:

Quote

Content license from You to Bucket Head

By submitting, posting or displaying such Content, you give Bucket Head a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through a Site. This license is for the purpose of enabling Bucket Head to provide, distribute and promote a Site.

You agree that this license includes a right for Bucket Head to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Bucket Head has relationships for the provision of information and services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

You understand and agree that Bucket Head, in performing the required technical steps to provide a Site to its users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services, or media.

 

[Link | 2,708]

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

Have you seen the retro game stores and homebrew games database we've already released on VGS? 

Yes. Maybe I’m just old but the navigational structure isn’t great for me. (I don’t understand reddit either, for similar reasons. So take that as you will.)

The stores: sorting results don’t make sense. Here is a very simple example: North Dakota stores - there are 7 listed. Sort by address: 
• 3504, 3109 13th Avenue South, Westgate, Fargo, North Dakota, 58103
• 3808 South Broadway B, Minot, North Dakota, 58701
• 3221 32nd Avenue South #200, Grand Forks, North Dakota, 58201
• 244 14th Street West, Dickinson, North Dakota, 58601
• 2619 8th Avenue Southwest, Jamestown, North Dakota, 58401
• 4302 13th Avenue South, West Acres, Fargo, North Dakota, 58103
• 1515, Road B, Burnt Boat Drive, Bismarck, North Dakota, 58503

I cannot see any way that order makes sense. Not by building number, street name, ZIP code, city name, nothing. It’s one thing if this is a bug, but sorting by other criteria also doesn’t make sense to me.

What I would like to see is every textual criteria sortable (possible if relevant fields are separated, such as city or ZIP) and linkable (in the case of games:  clicking on console, genre-subgenre, style, dev, publisher, characters, ports, series or sequels would take you to a view of relevant matches which can be filtered or sorted by additional criteria.
For instance, I look at list of NES games, find Kung Fu, and from there could be taken to NES games, Irem-published games, Data East published games, Nintendo RD1 games, Kung Fu series games [Kung Fu / Kung Fu Master / Spartan X] etc; results therefrom all sortable by platform, release year, etc etc) 
And many or most things should be able to include images (cover, screenshot, storefront...)

I know this is a huge and ambitious undertaking. But I’d say again if the framework is there, user input can fill it in. 

What we have now is not at all a bad start don’t get me wrong. 

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

The hard part would be if we wanted dynamic data like prices etc.. 

Dynamic stuff could be interesting, in terms of a VGPC / GVN replacement, but like rarity values I agree with what seems to be a prevailing sentiment that it’s not necessary. It would be cool, as I’ve said before, for VGS be a wide-reaching resource that people rely on for all sorts of info, but that kind of thing is low on my priority list. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Link

[Link | 2,708]

5 hours ago, LaytToTheParty said:

how do we get the ball rolling?

I would say talk to others who are interested in working on this.  See posts about database creation ideas in some threads
here
here
here
here
 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Link

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Just get Mario Friend to do it. He'll even throw in all the Video Game Masters.

[GreenKoopa | 15]

I think a database is a great idea. However, we should concentrate on one console only at a time. Get it well established, before moving onto the next. Makes the task less daunting for everyone. 

[zeppelin03 | 314]

3 hours ago, Link said:

The stores: sorting results don’t make sense. Here is a very simple example: North Dakota stores - there are 7 listed. Sort by address: 
• 3504, 3109 13th Avenue South, Westgate, Fargo, North Dakota, 58103
• 3808 South Broadway B, Minot, North Dakota, 58701
• 3221 32nd Avenue South #200, Grand Forks, North Dakota, 58201
• 244 14th Street West, Dickinson, North Dakota, 58601
• 2619 8th Avenue Southwest, Jamestown, North Dakota, 58401
• 4302 13th Avenue South, West Acres, Fargo, North Dakota, 58103
• 1515, Road B, Burnt Boat Drive, Bismarck, North Dakota, 58503

I cannot see any way that order makes sense. Not by building number, street name, ZIP code, city name, nothing. It’s one thing if this is a bug, but sorting by other criteria also doesn’t make sense to me.

I checked Ohio and it was arranged by name. Also there were drop downs for address, zip, etc as sorting options on the upper right. Seems to work for that state.

 

Perhaps the issue is when a chain of stores is listed it orders them at random instead of using city or something like that as a secondary sort field.

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

7 hours ago, Mega Tank said:

All of this sounds interesting, but this takes the cake.

Haha. Didn't even realize I had a typo. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Tanooki | 4,929]

15 hours ago, Gloves said:

The following is the Terms of Use in it's entirety from NA ver batim, prior to the purchase by GoCollect:

  Hide contents

 

 

For reference, here's the part you're looking for:

Content license from You to Bucket Head

By submitting, posting or displaying such Content, you give Bucket Head a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through a Site. This license is for the purpose of enabling Bucket Head to provide, distribute and promote a Site.

You agree that this license includes a right for Bucket Head to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Bucket Head has relationships for the provision of information and services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

You understand and agree that Bucket Head, in performing the required technical steps to provide a Site to its users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services, or media.

 

Ok from that and reading the earlier stuff about who owns what.  If I'm getting this down right, makers of content are in control of said content and own it.  BUT, this part up here, it says while I may own what I made/created, posted, and shared, they also due to the site have a right or transfer and reproduction for their own needs.

 

It would appear that if someone wanted to use anything they supplied to the old site, they have a right to do it under the terms of it.  Perhaps GoCollect changed that in their period, but that would apply to that post-period, the earlier would fall under the original agreement under which it was created.  I would imagine if someone say like Benihana and his SharpNES TV archive there of owners wanted to lift and use the exact data again, that would be 100% allowable.  Just like if Penguin and Bronty or someone wanted to use their old stories tied to incredible images, they'd have every right to lift it word for word, image to image and again it would be good.

In respect to that I would think if anyone was pissed at GoCollect and wanted to recover their creations to reproduce it here it would be not an issue whether they liked it or not given the data was created and supplied before the buy out under the old owners terms.

[LaytToTheParty | 22]

In case anyone was wondering, I posted about making a database for this stuff under suggestions. I know we technically already have a database, but c'mon, look at it

[Gloves | 11,759]

8 minutes ago, LaytToTheParty said:

In case anyone was wondering, I posted about making a database for this stuff under suggestions. I know we technically already have a database, but c'mon, look at it

See Tanookis post just above yours. To my knowledge what he says is the case - you can repost stuff you've written yourself anywhere you want. However, it's not allowed when you post things from another site without at least the original writers permission. 

So anything you've moved over ver batim from NA that isn't your own will have to be removed. This stands to reason for literally any site, not just NA - you can't go grab someone's guide from atari age or wherever else and just repost it here. 

[Foochie776 | 1,051]

On 5/19/2020 at 2:09 PM, Penguin said:

It was tough losing the site.  I’m sad there’s so much information and so many memories on that site that are very hard to even navigate.  Not going to lie I shed a tear when the site closed.

Me too mang. Me too.