Wata & VGA Grading Fails

[Startyde | 175]

5 hours ago, neodolphino said:

It's not that they are choosing to have those graded, that's their busniess... it's that WATA is grading them at all (especially in a "sealed" grading scale).  They are repros... of hacks... sealed by a "company" or person that is, for all intents, a hobbyist - likely taking someone else's work without approval and/or compensation and making something unregulated and unauthorized - how does WATA even determine if/how these things were sealed to determine if they are truly sealed and not resealed...??  Even if they are 100% as they came from the seller, these in no way should be legitimized...

Well Wata is a new company with a lot of details to iron out, esp in regard to grading. "Nice guys from NA" was never a convincing endorsement for aptitude, and is particularly ironic given NA doesn't even exist anymore as it was sold out by also "Nice guys from NA."

CGA had been grading toys for half a decade before going into games, and 15 years later still isn't perfect (no grading company is). There's just a lot of moving parts and noob peddlers lately and I feel they turn to Wata as an authority somewhat blindly. For example, there are two Ways GoW 1 for PS2 right now on eBay claiming to be first prints when they are not (first prints have holofoils and those don't). The sellers got the idea because Wata listed on the game that they have first party seals. I have no idea what that means, but these are second or third printings and people have no idea what they're grading or selling. Not necessarily Wata's fault but they aren't helping the switch listing a second print game as "first party seal."

[Scrobins | 1,719]

7 hours ago, Vectrex28 said:

I wonder if they'd grade one of those Famicom edition Saturn Smash tapes made out of 100 yen copies of Dragon Quest...

Only one way to find out...

[B.A. | 1,139]

My favorite part from the description of that Crimson Echoes listing:

The WATA Gold level consists of the grades 100, 95+, 95, 90+, 90

[neodolphino | 267]

10 hours ago, Startyde said:

Well Wata is a new company with a lot of details to iron out, esp in regard to grading. "Nice guys from NA" was never a convincing endorsement for aptitude, and is particularly ironic given NA doesn't even exist anymore as it was sold out by also "Nice guys from NA."

CGA had been grading toys for half a decade before going into games, and 15 years later still isn't perfect (no grading company is). There's just a lot of moving parts and noob peddlers lately and I feel they turn to Wata as an authority somewhat blindly. For example, there are two Ways GoW 1 for PS2 right now on eBay claiming to be first prints when they are not (first prints have holofoils and those don't). The sellers got the idea because Wata listed on the game that they have first party seals. I have no idea what that means, but these are second or third printings and people have no idea what they're grading or selling. Not necessarily Wata's fault but they aren't helping the switch listing a second print game as "first party seal."

I think it's 100% WATA's fault.  They marketed themselves as a more competent and legitimate option to CGA/VGA.  They have been around and grading for 2 years.  They focus solely on video games, have people on their staff that are supposed to be -the- experts (or at least know who to go to), and even have partnered with an auction site, that should -demand- that they are grading legitimate things.  Do mistakes happen?  Sure, but this isn't a "mistake"/oversight.  They even admit on the label that they are hacks.

Have a customer that wants something like this slabbed?  Ok, fine... slab it, but don't grade it, or at least don't grade it on a scale/in a way that is used for legitimate games.  This misleads people, arguably gives legitimacy to something that is equivalent to something I could make in my basement, and could lead people to be ripped off.

[neodolphino | 267]

11 hours ago, Vectrex28 said:

I wonder if they'd grade one of those Famicom edition Saturn Smash tapes made out of 100 yen copies of Dragon Quest...

Likely they would.  They do grade homebrew.  I'm actually not even against that - you programmed the game.  You are the creator, and despite it being a low budget release, it's a more legitimate release than these hacks.

[T-Pac | 7,513]

[Scrobins | 1,719]

5 hours ago, CasualCart said:

Please please please let Snoic the Higgyhog become the first VGS-inspired homebrew!

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

100% real fake

[gutsman004 | 83]

Off topic a bit,but I was shocked to find out the founder of Wata is only 24. Also has complete cib nes and n64 sets. Also near cibs sets of snes,game boy,and game cube and a bunch of other stuff..4,000+ game collection.

Just wondering how is it possible to amass that much stuff at such an early age and in a time where stuff started to really boom.

Not bashing the guy,but just scratching my head on how he was able to fund all these purchases and create wata. 

Rich family? Found a ton of great deals? Trading? Won the lotto?  

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

6 minutes ago, gutsman004 said:

Off topic a bit,but I was shocked to find out the founder of Wata is only 24. Also has complete cib nes and n64 sets. Also near cibs sets of snes,game boy,and game cube and a bunch of other stuff..4,000+ game collection.

Just wondering how is it possible to amass that much stuff at such an early age and in a time where stuff started to really boom.

Not bashing the guy,but just scratching my head on how he was able to fund all these purchases and create wata. 

Rich family? Found a ton of great deals? Trading? Won the lotto?  

He picked off most of it before stuff really started to boom.   He was on NA in the early years.

[gutsman004 | 83]

23 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

He picked off most of it before stuff really started to boom.   He was on NA in the early years.

Gotcha. I kind of remember him somewhat. Seemed like everyone liked him if I remember correctly. Read the backgrounds on the staff on the wata site. Looks like he’s 26 as it says he graduated college in 2016 which likely make him around 22 at the time.

Cool that Ken and Bronty are on the staff. I didn’t have much interaction with Ken,so I don’t know a lot about him but Bronty is as knowledgeable as they come.

I did not join NA until 2011,I was totally into the arcade collecting scene from about 98 until that time.

Although arcades have and pins especially have gone up in value,nothing like what nes and snes games did,so I guess I chose the wrong hobby.

 

Still think there is no cooler feeling that playing an arcade game at your house though. Lol.

Edited May 19, 2020 by gutsman004

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

The only fail I can offer is partially my fault. But has me question why they never spell-checked before making the label.

Case in point: Dragon Quest XI

If you look up "Dragon Quest XI CBCS" you will see my original copy in Google's image section. You will also see "Sugisarishi" be "Sugi Sarishi". I found out this was incorrect after they emailed me the final grade. But I did not realize they used my use of the word when I finally received the game.

And when it comes to being nit picky they did not make any reference to the game. Even with a "With Offer" or something like that would have helped differentiate said first print from later prints. But again, that is me being nit picky since I like knowing the difference when it comes to their U.S. graded games.

Edited June 7, 2020 by FenrirZero

[galacticlint | 42]

Once upon a time back when sealed Genesis games were only modestly above CIB copies in price, I bought a sealed Gunstar Heroes.

Having previous success with VGA I sent it in to be graded and expected a 85 grade or so.

It came back ungraded and they said it was a reseal.

Trusting VGA that it was a reseal I opened the Gunstar to confirm CIB contents. I found it was indeed brand spankin' new, fruit roll up and insert poster and everything. Pin connectors on the cart immaculate and perfect under magnification.

I was so mad that I pretty much sold my whole collection.

In retrospect I should have just been happy I had a 100% CIB minty copy, but I got all bent out of shape for some reason.

Moral of the story is that VGA is staffed by actual human beings who sometimes make errors. They are not God almighty.

Genesis games come with a variety of different seal styles, depending on the company and print run.

Edited June 20, 2020 by galacticlint

[Foochie776 | 1,051]

On 5/18/2020 at 10:39 PM, gutsman004 said:

Gotcha. I kind of remember him somewhat. Seemed like everyone liked him if I remember correctly. Read the backgrounds on the staff on the wata site. Looks like he’s 26 as it says he graduated college in 2016 which likely make him around 22 at the time.

Cool that Ken and Bronty are on the staff. I didn’t have much interaction with Ken,so I don’t know a lot about him but Bronty is as knowledgeable as they come.

I did not join NA until 2011,I was totally into the arcade collecting scene from about 98 until that time.

Although arcades have and pins especially have gone up in value,nothing like what nes and snes games did,so I guess I chose the wrong hobby.

 

Still think there is no cooler feeling that playing an arcade game at your house though. Lol.

Ken is great, so is Deniz. Both super friendly guys and great to chat with. Lots of knowledge. 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

11 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

Ken is great, so is Deniz. Both super friendly guys and great to chat with. Lots of knowledge. 

Kenneth is a good guy. Anytime I've had a question, I've been able to email him directly and he responds right away.

[Mijael | 347]

5 hours ago, galacticlint said:

Once upon a time back when sealed Genesis games were only modestly above CIB copies in price, I bought a sealed Gunstar Heroes.

Having previous success with VGA I sent it in to be graded and expected a 85 grade or so.

It came back ungraded and they said it was a reseal.

Trusting VGA that it was a reseal I opened the Gunstar to confirm CIB contents. I found it was indeed brand spankin' new, fruit roll up and insert poster and everything. Pin connectors on the cart immaculate and perfect under magnification.

I was so mad that I pretty much sold my whole collection.

In retrospect I should have just been happy I had a 100% CIB minty copy, but I got all bent out of shape for some reason.

Moral of the story is that VGA is staffed by actual human beings who sometimes make errors. They are not God almighty.

Genesis games come with a variety of different seal styles, depending on the company and print run.

Genesis are not easy... i live in Mexico so for me the easiest way to determine if its authentic is to look for the "NOM" sticker . They use that sticker for every imported good. That sticker also has to look old . 

 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

5 hours ago, galacticlint said:

Once upon a time back when sealed Genesis games were only modestly above CIB copies in price, I bought a sealed Gunstar Heroes.

Having previous success with VGA I sent it in to be graded and expected a 85 grade or so.

It came back ungraded and they said it was a reseal.

Trusting VGA that it was a reseal I opened the Gunstar to confirm CIB contents. I found it was indeed brand spankin' new, fruit roll up and insert poster and everything. Pin connectors on the cart immaculate and perfect under magnification.

I was so mad that I pretty much sold my whole collection.

In retrospect I should have just been happy I had a 100% CIB minty copy, but I got all bent out of shape for some reason.

Moral of the story is that VGA is staffed by actual human beings who sometimes make errors. They are not God almighty.

Genesis games come with a variety of different seal styles, depending on the company and print run.

I'm currently having issues with CGA, Inc. So hearing them claim that has strengthen my resolve to submit my games to Collector Archive Services if I do not use Wata.

[Joshua Rogers | 77]

21 hours ago, galacticlint said:

Once upon a time back when sealed Genesis games were only modestly above CIB copies in price, I bought a sealed Gunstar Heroes.

Having previous success with VGA I sent it in to be graded and expected a 85 grade or so.

It came back ungraded and they said it was a reseal.

Trusting VGA that it was a reseal I opened the Gunstar to confirm CIB contents. I found it was indeed brand spankin' new, fruit roll up and insert poster and everything. Pin connectors on the cart immaculate and perfect under magnification.

I was so mad that I pretty much sold my whole collection.

In retrospect I should have just been happy I had a 100% CIB minty copy, but I got all bent out of shape for some reason.

Moral of the story is that VGA is staffed by actual human beings who sometimes make errors. They are not God almighty.

Genesis games come with a variety of different seal styles, depending on the company and print run.

You could have asked them to open it and grade it at qualified. But that sucks

[wyansas | 131]

There have been a bunch of graded Clu Clu Land prototypes show up on eBay lately.  Given that the game was released in 1984/1985, about 3 years before Nintendo started using 3 screw carts, I'm wondering why most of these prototypes are in 3 screw carts? 

[GPX | 1,369]

On 6/21/2020 at 3:20 AM, galacticlint said:

Once upon a time back when sealed Genesis games were only modestly above CIB copies in price, I bought a sealed Gunstar Heroes.

Having previous success with VGA I sent it in to be graded and expected a 85 grade or so.

It came back ungraded and they said it was a reseal.

Trusting VGA that it was a reseal I opened the Gunstar to confirm CIB contents. I found it was indeed brand spankin' new, fruit roll up and insert poster and everything. Pin connectors on the cart immaculate and perfect under magnification.

I was so mad that I pretty much sold my whole collection.

In retrospect I should have just been happy I had a 100% CIB minty copy, but I got all bent out of shape for some reason.

Moral of the story is that VGA is staffed by actual human beings who sometimes make errors. They are not God almighty.

Genesis games come with a variety of different seal styles, depending on the company and print run.

I used to get angry when VGA rejects to grade a sealed game I’ve sent in, when I knew for sure I had purchased it from a trusted seller of old stock. With some years of experience I’ve now learnt to accept their approach better. 

When you said “they said it was a reseal”, they really meant was likely “we can’t be sure 100% this is a factory sealed, and unsure if contents inside are brand new.” They then would offer to send it back ungraded or to open the seal to check the contents. 

This selling approach in the above I tend to agree with nowadays due to so many resealers and scammers in the market. And also some games were originally shrink-wrapped which can easily be reproduced in today’s market. So in your particular case, VGA didn’t necessarily make an error, but it seems a possible misunderstanding between you and VGA (at the time).

On a side note, I wonder if that fruit rollup is still edible? 

[Speedy_NES | 102]

Here's two Section Z hangtabs, one listed as 5-screw and one as 3-screw. I assume that this is a fail and both should be 5-screw? I've got a sealed one and am therefore genuinely curious if this is just a mistake or not.

3-Screw:
https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/nintendo/section-z-hangtab-no-rev-a-3-screw-cart-round-soq-mid-production-wata-65-b-sealed-nes-capcom-1987-usa/a/7224-97044.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Open-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

5-Screw:
https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/nintendo/section-z-hangtab-5-screw-cart-early-production-atwood-collection-wata-80-a-sealed-nes-capcom-1987-usa/a/7224-93034.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Open-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

[Startyde | 175]

On 6/20/2020 at 1:50 PM, galacticlint said:

Once upon a time back when sealed Genesis games were only modestly above CIB copies in price, I bought a sealed Gunstar Heroes.

Having previous success with VGA I sent it in to be graded and expected a 85 grade or so.

It came back ungraded and they said it was a reseal.

Trusting VGA that it was a reseal I opened the Gunstar to confirm CIB contents. I found it was indeed brand spankin' new, fruit roll up and insert poster and everything. Pin connectors on the cart immaculate and perfect under magnification.

I was so mad that I pretty much sold my whole collection.

In retrospect I should have just been happy I had a 100% CIB minty copy, but I got all bent out of shape for some reason.

Moral of the story is that VGA is staffed by actual human beings who sometimes make errors. They are not God almighty.

Genesis games come with a variety of different seal styles, depending on the company and print run.

Genny can be tough depending on wrap. I literally fell for this recently on a copy of eternal champions. 

The wrap was immaculate, seam on back and all. But I saw dust and small debris under the wrap, so started second guessing if it was a reseal. Cracked the wrap and of course, everything is gem mint inside, the connectors holding the cart never moved. The debris must have fallen through the small hole on the top over time and collected underneath with age. 

All in all, as others have said, a grading company is less likely to declare something a reseal but rather, that they cannot authenticate the wrap. 

[Startyde | 175]

Interesting topics covered by brother Pat.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Startyde

[OptOut | 8,881]

11 hours ago, Startyde said:

Interesting topics covered by brother Pat.

 

 

I am so glad this sold for less that it would have cost to have it graded in the first place!

There is hope for the collecting community after all, lol! 

[DefaultGen | 5,400]

Saw this one. This is the Trilogy version but it doesn't say Trilogy on the label because it's covered with a sticker. Usually they don't screw these up from what I've seen even when they're stickered. People bid ridiculous for it as usual (It's worth like $10 tops). 

For comparison, the black label copy should look like this: