The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[Link | 2,709]

In talking about xx% effective, how do the current covid vaccines compare to others? Is the flu shot mid90s, or closer to 100? 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

33 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

I personally do not know which is worse at this point: COVID-19 or those claiming to be Conservative. 

No need for the political BS, that's for the politics club.

We finally had a local infection today. A New Zealand cargo pilot wasn't wearing a mask on his flight despite coughing, infected two other pilots. But that's an isolated situation.

The bloke then went out and about Taiwan, decided to shag his side deal, and passed the coronas to her.

[Brickman | 3,983]

If there’s one thing I’ve taken away from this virus it’s that an enemy no longer has to send in an army to defeat a country.

The response from the majority of western nations has been appalling, from the leadership down to the citizens themselves.

Countries like the US and the UK are literally fighting each other over who is right and wrong.

Maybe I’m over thinking it, but some enemy countries would be taking note of this.

[avatar! | 1,810]

19 minutes ago, Shmup said:

If there’s one thing I’ve taken away from this virus it’s that an enemy no longer has to send in an army to defeat a country.

The response from the majority of western nations has been appalling, from the leadership down to the citizens themselves.

Countries like the US and the UK are literally fighting each other over who is right and wrong.

Maybe I’m over thinking it, but some enemy countries would be taking note of this.

Nothing new in many ways.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1326439/

[Brickman | 3,983]

33 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Nothing new in many ways.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1326439/

Thanks, that was an interesting and scary read. 

[Californication | 1,477]

Calling the novel corona virus a chinese viruse is a racist. If you don't know if your a racist, it's a pretty good sign when you like to label things this way.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

Calling the novel corona virus a chinese viruse is a racist. If you don't know if your a racist, it's a pretty good sign when you like to label things this way.

Yup I totally agree with you. I hope there's not a lot of racists here on VGS.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

5 hours ago, Californication said:

Calling the novel corona virus a chinese viruse is a racist. If you don't know if your a racist, it's a pretty good sign when you like to label things this way.

Humanity has long history of naming diseases after the regions where communicable diseases are (rightly or  wrongly) perceived as originating.  For example with the mass outbreak of syphilis in Europe in the 1500s (which likely came from the New World - although there is a good chance that the New World strain combined with an Old World strain (there was a skeleton of a girl found in Pompeii who they think suffered from congenital syphilis)) it was often called the French Pox because it was believed that the disease originated with French mercenaries in Italy.

African sleeping sickness was called that because that is, well, where the disease is endemic (maybe because that is where the African tsetse flies (who carry the disease) live? - just a wild guess on my part maybe).

That nasty flu of 1918 was called the Spanish flu because  the Spanish press was only the only group freely reporting on it as it occurred (including the ruler Alphonso XIII catching it) in Spain - the various combatants in WWI suppressed reporting on it since they didn't want their enemies knowing their troops were being hit -although the enemies' armies were also being hit with it.  So it was assumed (wrongly in this case - there is reason to believe it actually started in the US) that it came out of Spain.

Flu strains have longed been named after the cities in which they first appear - which like it or not are most often southeast Asian ones due to the animal husbandry practices (which admittedly are very efficient but they also make cross species infection transmission really efficient) combined with dense populations which make human to human transmission all the more effective (from the disease's point of view anyway).  Makes it much easier to communicate about the disease rather than a scientific nomenclature which often winds up being mumbo jumbo. Also helpful if you want to compare it to previous strains originating in that area. (Alexa list all the Hong Kong flu variants in the last decade.)

And let's not forget the infamous (well among those possessing  more than  a cursory smattering of historical knowledge at any rate) Plague of Athens (historians still debate on what type of disease that it was).

I can cite others but hopefully you get the drift.

Like it or not, this current nastiness did originate in Wuhan, China - not generally designated as the Wuhan virus/strain (although IIRC early on it sometimes was) since everyone of a certain bent adamantly points out it is not a flu strain (although the comparison of how it spreads is somewhat analogous).  

Edited December 22, 2020 by Tabonga

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

21 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Humanity has long history of racism

Fixed for you.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand here comes the antivaxxers

 

[Californication | 1,477]

@Tabonga,

I don't understand your point.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

39 minutes ago, Californication said:

@Tabonga,

I don't understand your point.

The point is that there is a long history of naming diseases by their pr esumed geographic origin.  While you may want to believe that is racist the history argues against that viewpoint.   The examples I cited are but a few - and they cover a wide places of presumed origins of diseases.  

They occasionally might even be named after a specific person - such as Justinian's Plague - which was actually known as that because he happened to the Holy Roman Emperor when it occurred - the implication being that it occurred in the Holy Roman Empire rather than that he caused it.

They will also sometimes be named after a researcher (Hansen's Disease (leprosy) after the researcher who discovered the cause) or a prominent suffer such as Lou Gehrig (ALS - Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis). 

To elaborate - the reasons for naming a disease are generally pragmatic as opposed to other presumed "ulterior" motives.  That sometimes happens - particularly when you have nations with a long history of military competition. 

 

 

 

 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Fixed for you.

Here is a more accurate statement 

All of humanity has long history of racism (and/or its bosom buddy ethnic hatred).

 

 

[Californication | 1,477]

50 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

The point is that there is a long history of naming diseases by their pr esumed geographic origin.  While you may want to believe that is racist the history argues against that viewpoint.   The examples I cited are but a few - and they cover a wide places of presumed origins of diseases.  

They occasionally might even be named after a specific person - such as Justinian's Plague - which was actually known as that because he happened to the Holy Roman Emperor when it occurred - the implication being that it occurred in the Holy Roman Empire rather than that he caused it.

They will also sometimes be named after a researcher (Hansen's Disease (leprosy) after the researcher who discovered the cause) or a prominent suffer such as Lou Gehrig (ALS - Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis). 

To elaborate - the reasons for naming a disease are generally pragmatic as opposed to other presumed "ulterior" motives.  That sometimes happens - particularly when you have nations with a long history of military competition. 

 

 

 

 

"History argues against that viewpoint."

History is not a person and does not have opinions. You are arguing that it isn't racist to call Corona Virus the China Virus.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

3 minutes ago, Californication said:

"History argues against that viewpoint."

History is not a person and does not have opinions.

You are arguing that it isn't racist to call Corona Virus the China Virus.

No - but people use history (or misuse it) to express viewpoints.  If you could read beyond a simplistic statement you should be able to see that I am citing historical examples to prove a point - I could have made it a more complex statement but I was counting on discerning readers.

Well DUH!  Give the young man a kewpie doll!

If you want to disagree with any of my examples please do so.

 

[Californication | 1,477]

I agree some people, like yourself misuse history to try and prove a point.

You have done it multiple times in multiple threads and it always revolves around something that is racist that you disagree about being racist. 

 

 

[spacepup | 2,404]

Please take your all's argument elsewhere or privately if you want to nitpick with each other.  Let's try to be civil here and talk about the ongoing pandemic.  

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

2 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Please take your all's argument elsewhere or privately if you want to nitpick with each other.  Let's try to be civil here and talk about the ongoing pandemic.  

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe.

I thought we were talking about the virus and the appropriate nomenclature - kinda stifles any serious discussion if we can't agree on terms.

[spacepup | 2,404]

The general discussion is fine.  I'm talking about the snarky comments against each other.

[Strange | 1,700]

3 hours ago, Tabonga said:

Humanity has long history of naming diseases after the regions where communicable diseases are (rightly or  wrongly) perceived as originating.  For example with the mass outbreak of syphilis in Europe in the 1500s (which likely came from the New World - although there is a good chance that the New World strain combined with an Old World strain (there was a skeleton of a girl found in Pompeii who they think suffered from congenital syphilis)) it was often called the French Pox because it was believed that the disease originated with French mercenaries in Italy.

African sleeping sickness was called that because that is, well, where the disease is endemic (maybe because that is where the African tsetse flies (who carry the disease) live? - just a wild guess on my part maybe).

That nasty flu of 1918 was called the Spanish flu because  the Spanish press was only the only group freely reporting on it as it occurred (including the ruler Alphonso XIII catching it) in Spain - the various combatants in WWI suppressed reporting on it since they didn't want their enemies knowing their troops were being hit -although the enemies' armies were also being hit with it.  So it was assumed (wrongly in this case - there is reason to believe it actually started in the US) that it came out of Spain.

Flu strains have longed been named after the cities in which they first appear - which like it or not are most often southeast Asian ones due to the animal husbandry practices (which admittedly are very efficient but they also make cross species infection transmission really efficient) combined with dense populations which make human to human transmission all the more effective (from the disease's point of view anyway).  Makes it much easier to communicate about the disease rather than a scientific nomenclature which often winds up being mumbo jumbo. Also helpful if you want to compare it to previous strains originating in that area. (Alexa list all the Hong Kong flu variants in the last decade.)

And let's not forget the infamous (well among those possessing  more than  a cursory smattering of historical knowledge at any rate) Plague of Athens (historians still debate on what type of disease that it was).

I can cite others but hopefully you get the drift.

Like it or not, this current nastiness did originate in Wuhan, China - not generally designated as the Wuhan virus/strain (although IIRC early on it sometimes was) since everyone of a certain bent adamantly points out it is not a flu strain (although the comparison of how it spreads is somewhat analogous).  

Humanity has a long history of racism, slavery, sexism, genocide, etc. Just because it’s the old way doesn’t mean it’s okay to keep doing.

And from the studies I’ve read, there’s also no proof that it originated in China. There are traces of it found in blood samples and water samples in Europe and the United States dating from before China reported it. All we know for fact is that China was the first to notice/report it. It could have still originated from there, but nothing is proven yet.

Regardless, given how we Americans have the highest COVID cases, we spread it the most, etc. the American virus makes more sense to say. But it’s not called that, it’s called COVID-19 or Coronavirus. And it’s easier and clearer to say that than either “American virus” or “Chinese virus.”

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

History is not a person and does not have opinions. You are arguing that it isn't racist to call Corona Virus the China Virus

Gotta say, I agree. Saying that's how things were in past is an appeal to antiquity and a poorly constructed argument, potentially even a logical fallacy (?). 

Meanwhile..

[Tabonga | 2,317]

23 minutes ago, The Strangest said:

Humanity has a long history of racism, slavery, sexism, genocide, etc. Just because it’s the old way doesn’t mean it’s okay to keep doing.

Regardless, given how we Americans have the highest COVID cases, we spread it the most, etc. the American virus makes more sense to say. But it’s not called that, it’s called COVID-19 or Coronavirus. And it’s easier and clearer to say that than either “American virus” or “Chinese virus.”

Ignoring the universality of it in favor of trashing one narrow group is no answer either.  For example how did the slaves in the western hemisphere (and it wasn't just the English colonies - they actually got in the picture fairly late - the Spanish had a much longer and much more brutal history there) get onto those hellhole boats in the first place - they didn't sign up for a cruise tour that turned out to be an early example of harsh time shares.

IIRC correctly virtually all (if not all) of the early US cases were people who had been to the Wuhan area and returned.  And it is not surprising that the US has a high number of cases - we likely have the most intricate network of travel routes via airplanes and automobiles which combined with a pretty large population that is often fairly congested (which is likely a reason that New York was hit so hard,)

[Tabonga | 2,317]

21 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Gotta say, I agree. Saying that's how things were in past is an appeal to antiquity and a poorly constructed argument, potentially even a logical fallacy (?). 

 

That is implying that the usages "in antiquity" (although 1918 hardly falls in that category does it?) all were based on racism* is itself a fallacy (false premise argument).  The problem IMHO is automatically assuming something is "X" simply because it can be spun that way in a convoluted and distorted manner. 

 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

Ignore!

Edited December 22, 2020 by Tabonga

[Strange | 1,700]

28 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Ignoring the universality of it in favor of trashing one narrow group is no answer either.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. That’s why you can’t call it the “Chinese virus” any more than you can call it the “American virus.”

And no, the water source that they found it in in Spain did not travel to Wuhan, and I doubt highly that every early case did so either. My niece, who had it, did not. My neighbor did not. But they both travel the US (and in my niece’s case, Europe) extensively and they’ve both got the antibodies.

At this point you could argue that they caught it from someone who caught it from someone else etc. etc. and trace the paper trail back to Wuhan, but at that point it’s conjecture with no proof and it doesn’t add value to an already divided society.

Edited December 22, 2020 by The Strangest