TylerBarnes | 183 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, 98ViperGTS said: They are now. They weren't when I first got the cart. It works fine. They aren't nearly as easy to erase as most people think I dev for NES and am familiar with EPROMS. While fully erasing takes a lot, over time if left uncovered, even one byte gone can cause issues. Just would hate to see such a cart go for something easily prevented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Lambda said: Ahh there we go! Sorry, wasn’t sure if it was mentioned in here yet. Just popped up onto my eBay feed this morning. Edit: ahh okay, I see it now earlier in the thread. I didn’t know that number was yours, sorry for double posting. Pretty cool to own one. (Not sure i could let one go if I happened to own a copy). Any clue how the crack on the shell happened? Shells feel pretty tough, I feel like it’s take a decent amount of force to do that. Wondering if this has got an interesting story behind it! No idea how it got cracked. I purchased it like that. It was originally found at a yard sale. I'm guessing somebody probably stepped on it, or something was stacked on top of it. I won't be letting it go for anything less than a ridiculous amount of money, all truth told. I bought it from Dave back in June; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda | 130 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 6 hours ago, TylerBarnes said: This is concerning. Why aren't these covered? Although these EPROMs are covered as stated by @98ViperGTS It leads to a question I have since I have some experience with Homebrew and programming EPROM for multiple machines over time. We all know they run out eventually... eventually even ambient light will destroy a single byte on an EPROM and render errors... there is a limited lifespan on these chips. My Question: What do you all think happens in the future... once we are all dead and these PCBs start showing up useless due to bad data..? Do the new owners desolder the EPROM, reprogram with authentic binaries, and keep them going longer? What if an EPROM goes bad entirely due to dead cells?! so many questions here and I’d love to hear thoughts on the future as this topic’s title entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,869 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lambda said: Although these EPROMs are covered as stated by @98ViperGTS It leads to a question I have since I have some experience with Homebrew and programming EPROM for multiple machines over time. We all know they run out eventually... eventually even ambient light will destroy a single byte on an EPROM and render errors... there is a limited lifespan on these chips. My Question: What do you all think happens in the future... once we are all dead and these PCBs start showing up useless due to bad data..? Do the new owners desolder the EPROM, reprogram with authentic binaries, and keep them going longer? What if an EPROM goes bad entirely due to dead cells?! so many questions here and I’d love to hear thoughts on the future as this topic’s title entails. People are not buying NWCs to play! As will ALL the games we own, bit rot, disc rot, the ravages of oxidation and entropy are going to render them all non-functional at some unknown point in the future. That doesn't change the fact that these remain genuine artifacts and collectables, which will presumably still be desirable to a large number of people. In the future people will play games on everdrives, FPGA clone systems and regular emulation. The empty carts and discs will be for collecting and display purposes only. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda | 130 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, OptOut said: People are not buying NWCs to play! As will ALL the games we own, bit rot, disc rot, the ravages of oxidation and entropy are going to render them all non-functional at some unknown point in the future. That doesn't change the fact that these remain genuine artifacts and collectables, which will presumably still be desirable to a large number of people. In the future people will play games on everdrives, FPGA clone systems and regular emulation. The empty carts and discs will be for collecting and display purposes only. I happen to agree with this in many ways and completely understand the point... however it makes me wonder how many collectors will still WANT an original game, solely for the purpose of the PCB, Shell and label, when they know the data won’t run. In my own opinion it might turn some off? I’m really not sure... which is why I ask the question. Great response though and I appreciate it! (This type of response give me hope past collecting while data rot occurs)! The main point in question here lies in the Intrinsic Value of the original Data on the EPROM. THAT is what I’m driving at for everyone to address. I genuinely hope people still feel like this long after we’re all gone. (The disk rot is a problem that accelerates faster compared to chips/carts, and this is a big reason I mostly collect carts as compared to optical). Edited February 16, 2020 by Lambda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O.G. CIB | 414 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Lambda said: I happen to agree with this in many ways and completely understand the point... however it makes me wonder how many collectors will still WANT an original game, solely for the purpose of the PCB, Shell and label, when they know the data won’t run. In my own opinion it might turn some off? I’m really not sure... which is why I ask the question. Great response though and I appreciate it! (This type of response give me hope past collecting while data rot occurs)! The main point in question here lies in the Intrinsic Value of the original Data on the EPROM. THAT is what I’m driving at for everyone to address. I genuinely hope people still feel like this long after we’re all gone. (The disk rot is a problem that accelerates faster compared to chips/carts, and this is a big reason I mostly collect carts as compared to optical). People buy games that are sealed and Incase them in plastic with a grade on it never to be opened or used. It’s all in the same..... people will still want an NWC because of what it represents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda | 130 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, Mr. CIB said: People buy games that are sealed and Incase them in plastic with a grade on it never to be opened or used. It’s all in the same..... people will still want an NWC because of what it represents 2 for representation! Haha. I like hearing this because I guess that’s what it’s all about. I’m genuinely seeking out the people(s) that will be concerned for if and when the original data is lost. While I agree with you, I feel like this sentiment has to exist out there somewhere?.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerBarnes | 183 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 I do not feel soldering / desoldering / repairing such a relic in that way would be a good thing. Preventing, yes. But taking a soldering gun to this cart I feel is backwards to the point of having one. Having it all original as much as possible is what I would prefer even with bit rot. Though it is likely entirely possible use probes to reflash the chip in circuit. So if you could dump without desoldering, you could uv erase and reflash it without any desoldering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda | 130 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, TylerBarnes said: I do not feel soldering / desoldering / repairing such a relic in that way would be a good thing. Preventing, yes. But taking a soldering gun to this cart I feel is backwards to the point of having one. Having it all original as much as possible is what I would prefer even with bit rot. Though it is likely entirely possible use probes to reflash the chip in circuit. So if you could dump without desoldering, you could uv erase and reflash it without any desoldering. Excellent point... was Waiting for someone to bring this up. Binary examination upon reflash would be imperative for me to ensure every byte was true to original hex (if I ever owned one, and if I ever needed to do so)... That considered... I think preservation of a True Binary could be as important to the continuity for anyone who may ever encounter this problem in the future. Edited February 17, 2020 by Lambda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,353 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 12:59 PM, Lambda said: I happen to agree with this in many ways and completely understand the point... however it makes me wonder how many collectors will still WANT an original game, solely for the purpose of the PCB, Shell and label, when they know the data won’t run. In my own opinion it might turn some off? I’m really not sure... which is why I ask the question. Great response though and I appreciate it! (This type of response give me hope past collecting while data rot occurs)! The main point in question here lies in the Intrinsic Value of the original Data on the EPROM. THAT is what I’m driving at for everyone to address. I genuinely hope people still feel like this long after we’re all gone. (The disk rot is a problem that accelerates faster compared to chips/carts, and this is a big reason I mostly collect carts as compared to optical). The intrinsic value of the original data on the EPROM you’re talking about is likely only relevant to those who seek it: - gamers who want to play on original items - preservationists (from a functional perspective) There are other types of buyers though, examples: - preservationists (from a physical condition perspective) - collectors to display for art/nostalgia ——————— So with all the above, I can see collecting would still carry on even if one day the disc/bit rot will occur to the majority of the games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda | 130 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, GPX said: The intrinsic value of the original data on the EPROM you’re talking about is likely only relevant to those who seek it: - gamers who want to play on original items - preservationists (from a functional perspective) There are other types of buyers though, examples: - preservationists (from a physical condition perspective) - collectors to display for art/nostalgia ——————— So with all the above, I can see collecting would still carry on even if one day the disc/bit rot will occur to the majority of the games. Agreed 100%. So I guess the real question lies in which camp the holders of the games now fall into... and if there will ever be a shift in the camps each owner collects by as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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