I don't consider unlicensed carts as NES games. What do you think?

[Nintegageo | 582]

11 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

No one's really collecting Blink-182 band members, though.

 

 

(If anyone has an extra Travis, PM me. Paying top dollar!)

haha man I was drawing a blank on bands. But! Tom was replaced so perhaps they are collecting new band members..

[Tanooki | 4,929]

Well they were Nintendo games as much as they ran on Nintendo, but they're also not exactly Nintendo games because they had no license so the answer depends how you want to load the question.

If you really want to muddy the pond, get a dance going about Stadium Events.  Collectors/owners will die on the sword that it's a licensed legitimate Nintendo game, others ranging from can't afford to seeing how the licensed as revoked to re-brand it as a Nintendo property with the power pad mat as World Class Track Meet a valid argument and it does make a lot of sense too.  I lean toward it being license revoked and not a legit game to make a collection, at least a complete license or unlicensed either, but if it was a total collection of any period NES carts licensed, not, or in the air, then yeah it is.  Basically it was a licensed release, the first Official Nintendo Player's Guide shows it as much, but it got pulled and redone in basically title and paper stuff alone.

[chromableedstudios | 24]

If you are going to use examples, maybe less contrived ones than band members would be good?

Let's call the lockout chip and seal what they are: a form of DRM used to ensure Nintendo got their share of the $

 

So are jailbroken iPhone games not iPhone games? 'Nintendo games' on its own really just describes a game that works on a platform.

Edited January 6, 2020 by chromableedstudios

[Nintegageo | 582]

2 hours ago, chromableedstudios said:

If you are going to use examples, maybe less contrived ones than band members would be good?

Let's call the lockout chip and seal what they are: a form of DRM used to ensure Nintendo got their share of the $

 

So are jailbroken iPhone games not iPhone games? 'Nintendo games' on its own really just describes a game that works on a platform.

The only other thing I really collect and play would be Magic the Gathering. I can say with certainty that any cards not printed by WotC approved printers is pretty universally considered not a MtG card.

I know your example was comparable as they are both tech-based, but I do think my example has merit as well.

[Link | 2,708]

4 hours ago, Nintegageo said:

you know what we meant

I know RBI Baseball was a licensed game for the Nintendo Entertainment System before it wasn’t.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

16 minutes ago, Link said:

I know RBI Baseball was a licensed game for the Nintendo Entertainment System before it wasn’t.

Pac-Man and Gauntlet, too.

[Sumez | 2,930]

What would be the point of not considering them NES games?

I'm trying to gauge the train of thought here, but I can't think of any reason to say a game that plays on the NES isn't an NES game. FDS games might be more ambiguous, since they are still running on the NES, but require a peripheral. But then again, so does Duck Hunt.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

I always love discussing this topic. Licensing really had nothing to do with quality - it was a means of control, and also one of making more money for Nintendo themselves. See below for the classic example showcasing this.

Videomation is licensed in the USA for the NES, unlicensed on the Famicom. Two different publishers, one was licensed and the other wasn't. Same exact game. Similar situation with Time Diver Eon Man except it ultimately went unreleased on the NES.

The revoked licenses of the Tengen games would be another example. What about something like Kitty's Catch? It went unreleased, but the developer likely would have / had been trying to shop it around to a licensed company. Since the game never found a publisher, unlicensed?

Anything homebrew or indie would also be unlicensed. Then there's those legal reprints, which literally can't be licensed since Nintendo doesn't licence games anymore. But they contain previously licensed games, now becoming unlicensed non-nes games

whether you choose to collect them or not is up to everyone to decide, but the argument that they aren't nes (or famicom) games begins to get silly, quickly, imo.

 

[Nes Freak | 584]

for me i consider them close enough since they were made by a company during the life span of the nes.

[Sumez | 2,930]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

whether you choose to collect them or not is up to everyone to decide

Definitely two unrelated things entirely.

Whether you're "collecting" only licensed games, or only games from one region, one publisher, etc. is entirely your own completely arbitrary made-up limitation. And I don't really see any reason to consider any factors aside from "do I want to own this game".

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sumez

[spacepup | 2,404]

A) Hey, what is that cool looking game?
B) Oh this?  Oh, it's Micro Mages, a really cool homebrew NES game that came out recently! It's really awesome, you should tr.....
A) Woah, wait a sec.  Did you say NES game?  That's not a NES game as it wasn't official licensed, and...
B) Ummm....ok?  It's uh...a video game pak designed for play on the NES.  Better?
A) Yes, that is much better and technically correct.   However, you just said "ness."  It's not "ness," it's "N. E. S." ugh!
B) Um....ok dude, I'm just gonna go play Micro Mages and have fun while you sit here and analyze everything.  See ya.

[themisfit138 | 523]

Tengen made good stuff, and Micro Machines was a good time also. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

Wow, talk about a cult of relativity.  Sorry guys but not everything in this world means what you want it to mean or is what you want it to be.  Not everything on earth is relative.  These aren't poems just hanging out there for every individual in the universe to come along and define.  Sure, you can collect what you want, but to not count the roughly 10% of the library that is unlicensed as "Nintendo Games" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my NES collecting life.  Anyone who says otherwise is a Johnny-come-lately who only started collecting in the last ten years.  Seriously, if this topic had been posted on NA in, say, 2008, you would have been laughed out of the room and ridiculed for the entire rest of your short-lived forum existence.

Fuck yeah they're Nintendo games.  No, they are not licensed.  No, you are not legally obliged to collect them.  But just admit you're not collecting all of the NES games out there for [insert reason here].  Don't make up bullshit to justify why you collect what you collect.  Just be fucking honest.

Man, I thought it was ridiculous when the whole licensed set vs unlicensed set discussions became a thing in the last decade or so, but this one tops that by a mile.  Sorry, but the question put forth by the OP is pants-on-head retarded.

'Nuff Said. 

[Sumez | 2,930]

5 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I thought it was ridiculous when the whole licensed set vs unlicensed set discussions became a thing in the last decade

Hell, any "set" is ridiculous. Why buy something you have no interest in because someone said it was part of a set?

[spacepup | 2,404]

8 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Wow, talk about a cult of relativity.  Sorry guys but not everything in this world means what you want it to mean or is what you want it to be.  Not everything on earth is relative.  These aren't poems just hanging out there for every individual in the universe to come along and define.  Sure, you can collect what you want, but to not count the roughly 10% of the library that is unlicensed as "Nintendo Games" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my NES collecting life.  Anyone who says otherwise is a Johnny-come-lately who only started collecting in the last ten years.  Seriously, if this topic had been posted on NA in, say, 2008, you would have been laughed out of the room and ridiculed for the entire rest of your short-lived forum existence.

Fuck yeah they're Nintendo games.  No, they are not licensed.  No, you are not legally obliged to collect them.  But just admit you're not collecting all of the NES games out there for [insert reason here].  Don't make up bullshit to justify why you collect what you collect.  Just be fucking honest.

Man, I thought it was ridiculous when the whole licensed set vs unlicensed set discussions became a thing in the last decade or so, but this one tops that by a mile.  Sorry, but the question put forth by the OP is pants-on-head retarded.

'Nuff Said. 

I agree that it is perhaps a silly concept, and a lot of the discussion is semantics.

However, there is no need to be so aggressive.  Your last sentence in particular is unnecessary and offensive.  I don't want to play word police here, but please don't call people or things they do on here the 'r' word.  I have had more than one member in the past message me after seeing such comments, that they found them hurtful and offensive, and I don't want people to feel that way.  We try really hard here to balance freedom and fun with being inclusive and supportive of members, so please take my comments to heart here.  

[Nintegageo | 582]

5 minutes ago, spacepup said:

I agree that it is a silly question, and semantics,..

I never denied either - just genuinely curious.

[spacepup | 2,404]

11 minutes ago, Nintegageo said:

I never denied either - just genuinely curious.

Sorry, I should clarify.  The question is fine actually.  Some of the answers and discussion regarding proof of one way or the other is semantics.  As it really just depends on perspective.  There is no harm in asking if genuinely curious.   I've edited my comment a bit - thanks.

[G-type | 2,476]

back in the day, everyone I knew considered their TENGEN games to be NES games. they just had a different mold. They were sold alongside NES games in toy stores, and advertised in all the gaming mags. The Nintendo Seal of Quality didn't really mean shit. I mean they slapped that on X-men and Bigfoot.

[BortLicensePlate | 652]

Gauntlet is pretty fun 

[fcgamer | 4,719]

For those that feel they don't count, please go back and address my post on Videomation and the others. Thanks.

[TylerBarnes | 184]

To ask such a question you would have to define your terms more explicitly. Saying 'Nintendo Game' to just about 80% of people merely implies a game that is playable on, and runs on a Nintendo Console. 

By that definition homebrews and unlicensed games fit that category. 

If you are instead defining your term of 'Nintendo Game' as 'A game that can be attributed to Official Nintendo releases and games greenlit by Nintendo themselves' than a license is explicitly a requisite for that, and if that is your definition your question does not make sense to ask, since the parameters for defining a 'Nintendo Game' became a tautology. 

For these reasons I will assume the heart of your question is really meant to ask where people fall on that line between the literal and legal defining of the term.

My answer is both are valid definitions because in our language 'Nintendo' is both a company and a console. Depending on how your are using the term , the answer to your question will differ. 

 

[arnpoly | 198]

I'm taking a logical approach to this question.  It's ridiculously simple.

Unlicensed NES games = Unlicensed Nintendo Entertainment System games = Nintendo games

I don't see how this is disputable?

[peg | 370]

14 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Wow, talk about a cult of relativity.  Sorry guys but not everything in this world means what you want it to mean or is what you want it to be.  Not everything on earth is relative.  These aren't poems just hanging out there for every individual in the universe to come along and define.  Sure, you can collect what you want, but to not count the roughly 10% of the library that is unlicensed as "Nintendo Games" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my NES collecting life.  Anyone who says otherwise is a Johnny-come-lately who only started collecting in the last ten years.  Seriously, if this topic had been posted on NA in, say, 2008, you would have been laughed out of the room and ridiculed for the entire rest of your short-lived forum existence.

Fuck yeah they're Nintendo games.  No, they are not licensed.  No, you are not legally obliged to collect them.  But just admit you're not collecting all of the NES games out there for [insert reason here].  Don't make up bullshit to justify why you collect what you collect.  Just be fucking honest.

Man, I thought it was ridiculous when the whole licensed set vs unlicensed set discussions became a thing in the last decade or so, but this one tops that by a mile.  Sorry, but the question put forth by the OP is pants-on-head retarded.

'Nuff Said. 

Pretty much.  Just another lame ass excuse for people to pretend they have a full set or whatever.

Edited January 7, 2020 by peg

[MiamiSlice | 3,089]

14 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Fuck yeah they're Nintendo games.  No, they are not licensed.  No, you are not legally obliged to collect them.  But just admit you're not collecting all of the NES games out there for [insert reason here].  Don't make up bullshit to justify why you collect what you collect.  Just be fucking honest.

I am not out here defending full set collecting, but if your definition of a full set extends to mean "every single cart that runs on the NES in any fashion," then it's not really possible to collect every NES game. Because homebrew includes random games and other software that may have been printed in comically low numbers. I know of music albums that have been printed on cartridges where the print run is less than 50. Maybe 10. You can't possibly expect to track those down after the fact. We're talking more rare than Stadium Events here just based on quantity that exists. And then you may as well count the prototype carts. And hey, maybe some game industry exec has a single copy of a prototype that never saw the light of day, and you don't. So you don't have a full set! No one does!

See how silly this sounds? 

50 minutes ago, arnpoly said:

I'm taking a logical approach to this question.  It's ridiculously simple.

Unlicensed NES games = Unlicensed Nintendo Entertainment System games = Nintendo games

I don't see how this is disputable?

Common usage defines meaning. If I shorten "I did not buy the game" to "I buy the game" just by dropping off some words, that does not mean the intent is the same. I think when people talk about collecting Nintendo games, they usually mean collecting retail games. Homebrew is usually outside the scope of that and unlicensed games can be as well. So sure, people think of Tengen games as being retail games because they remember seeing them available for sale, but they probably don't think of unlicensed games that were only available via mail order in obscure publications that may have been 18+ only as being retail games. 

Obviously if I say "Full North American licensed set" then you know exactly what I mean and there's no argument to be had. But my point is when some collector says "I completed the NES library" "I have all the NES games" etc, their intent doesn't include titles like 8-Bit Christmas or whatever. 

Unless you mean to say you would reply to that person and tell them they are wrong and they don't really have a complete set. Which is your prerogative, go ahead I guess!

Edited January 7, 2020 by MiamiSlice

[Link | 2,708]

3 minutes ago, MiamiSlice said:

when some collector says "I completed the NES library" "I have all the NES games" etc, their intent doesn't include titles like 8-Bit Christmas or whatever. 

Be that as it may, OP seems to be asking to change the common use, redefining North American unlicensed period games completely out of the largest category where most people include them.