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Deadeye

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  1. Deadeye

    011 Homewbrew Hidden Gems

    By Deadeye,


    homebrew
    Homebrew hidden gems!  Maybe you overlooked these games or never knew about them, well worry no more...we have you covered.  Join @neodolphino, @Scrobins, and @Deadeyeas we cover 9+ NES homebrews that deserve more attention and play time.
    Audio Podcast version: https://anchor.fm/deadeye-bit/episodes/HiF-011---Hidden-Gems-e1fpumq
     
    Video version:
     
  2. Deadeye

    010 Witch n' Wiz

    By Deadeye,


    Homebrew
    This episode features Witch n' Wiz, a homebrew for the NES.  Witch n' Wiz is a puzzle adventure game, where you take control of a Witch who is going to rescue her friend, the Wizard.  Her friend was taken away from this world and is trapped.  Solve the puzzles and battle the evil boss to save your friend.  Developer, @matthughson , joins for a long play commentary and interview.
    Witch n' Wiz is available digitally, physically (through LRG), and on pie packer.
    https://mhughson.itch.io/witch-n-wiz

    Video:
     
    podcast:
    https://anchor.fm/deadeye-bit/episodes/HiF-010---Witch-n-Wiz-e1aq2uv
  3. Deadeye

    009 Homebrews for Halloween

    By Deadeye,


    homebrew
    Homebrews to play for the Halloween season Is that even a thing?
    Find out in the episode as we talk about that along with several games and off topic items, including Die Hard and James Bond.
    Audio Podcast version:
    https://anchor.fm/deadeye-bit/episodes/HiF-009---Homebrews-for-Halloween-e198rv2
    Joining me in the episode are my fellow Homebrew Team Members on Video Game Sage, talking about Halloween 85/86, Scare Carts, Spook-o'-tron, Micro Mages, Curse of Illmoore Bay, Sacred Line, and more including games still in development (Project Borscht, Crypt of Dracula, and Bio Evil)
     
    Video version:
     
  5. Deadeye

    007 Lizard

    By Deadeye,


    homebrew
    Another long play episode with developer commentary and interview.  This episode is on Lizard, a NES homebrew, and joining me is @rainwarrior
     
  9. Deadeye

    003 The Assembly Line Podcast

    By Deadeye,


    Homebrew
    Homebrews in Focus 003 - The Assembly Line Podcast
    In this episode we will be covering The Assembly Line Podcast, a podcast series that looks at the homebrew community, current events, and features a homebrew game each episode with the addition of interview(s) with the development team.  
    Printer friendly version: Link

    https://soundcloud.com/nesassemblyline
    https://www.patreon.com/nesassemblyline/posts
     
    Contents:
    1. Intro
    2. Origins (NESdev, ROM Hacks, and Homebrews)
    3. The Assembly Line Podcast (with listener interviews!)
    4. Host Interviews (Kevin Hanley and E.B.D. Holland)
    5. Closing

    1. Intro
    @Scrobins  (Sean) and I collaborated on the subject from different points of views and decided to do duel blog episodes.  See his episode, from A Homebrew Draws Near, here.  Homebrews in Focus will be doing a slight detour on this entry, from our normal format and analysis, as we will be relying on some first hand accounts during the period of the podcast premier, as well as this entry being paired with another blog, so make sure to check out Scrobins’ episode as well.  
    The following individuals graciously provided some first hand accounts and we will be quoting them throughout the episode.
    Michael Chiaramonte “Clearvus” @xelius
    Justin Orenich “Neodolphino” @neodolphino
    Nathan Tolbert “Gauauu” @gauauu
    Bradley Bateman “NEShomebrew / Other Brad” @NESHomebrew
    As well as, the following individuals assisted on the origins section with their accounts during the time period leading up to the podcast.

    Tomas Guinan “Toma / Spoony Bard Productions” @toma
    M-Tee @M-Tee
    Treed @treed

    2. Origins

    [Image from visual6502.org]

    (This origins section is pieced together from several first hand accounts, as the documentation is difficult to sort though, decades of forum posts, or is lost, IRC chats.  This is not an all inclusive summary either, as it is beyond the scope of the episode.  However I hear there is a history book in the works.  If you have a correction, send me a PM)
     

    [NES Console and controller]
     
    NES development never really ended after the lifespan of the Nintendo Entertainment System / Family Computer.  Unlicensed development continued with pirates, releases on the Famicom Disk System, modification of existing games (ROM hacks), and eventually new games by small groups or individuals (homebrews) after Nintendo had ended it’s support.  This was not a smooth line of progression.  In between the pirates and homebrews, there was a lively scene on NESDev to figure out both the hardware of the console and of the cartridges (mappers).  During that time, there were many prominent figures that emerged in the community, including people such as Kevtris, who was a member involved in documenting and reverse engineering the console (which was a large group effort, many were involved), and later Memblers, who was a member documenting hardware variations and pushing for new cartridge development.  Even after these efforts, other people continued projects such as Brian from RetroUSB and Paul from InfinteNESlives publishing homebrew and developing new hardware.  And in-between, many more people.  More plainly put, figuring out, reverse engineering, and new hardware support was a massive undertaking from a large community over a large span of time.

    [Diagram from 8bitworkshop.org] 
    Going a bit further into the development before homebrews emerged, as the existing system and its cartridge mappers were more understood, due to both disassembly and reverse engineering efforts, there were more projects started to use this new information.  Such as software emulation, with Nesticle, or programming such as, new games on donor boards, with Garage Cart  or even hardware to dump the cartridge contents (called ROMs), with CopyNES.  These hardware and software efforts, really brought to the table a treasure trove of understanding and documentation, allowing for homebrews to be possible.  
     
      
    [NESDev and NintendoAge logos]
     
    Going forward, websites such as NESDev and later NintendoAge became the community hub during this period.  NESDev continued with hardware documentation and NintendoAge became a landing place for game development, with the Nerdy Nights (NES 6502 tutorial series) and with the sale of physically released homebrews. For much of the public, this period of time went unnoticed until they saw many more advancements in emulators, flashcarts, and exposure on social media platforms. As they say, the world kept turning.  As the general public moved on to new console generations, these projects kept advancing. 
    Some people within the larger community were modifying existing games, called ROMhacks, and others were developing brand new games, called Homebrews.  These two different endeavors caused some confusion in the public, which is directly related to the creation of the podcast, but we will get into that later.  
     

    [Hex Editor]
    With ROMhacking, projects became more ambitious over time.  Some were graphic overhauls, which in a way was more accessible than in other systems, since NES games splits programming (CPU) and graphics (PPU) on two different chips.  As the coding became easier to approach through documentation and hex editors, people started to modify the existing hex codes to change the gameplay.  Some of the key early projects were translations, such as RPGe’s Final Fantasy V, Demi’s Final Fantasy II, and AWj/SoM2Freak’s Final Fantasy III.  As the community grew, Level editors were developed to more easily edit game levels, such as an early key Super Mario Bros. level editor, YY-ME.  RomHacking projects continued down these paths, with additional translations and additional edits.  Others brought complete overhaul projects, including new graphics, new levels, and sometimes even new features.  
     

    [NES motherboard closeup]
     
    With homebrews, after the release of Garage Cart (the first physically released NES homebrew), and then Sudoku (the first physically released homebrew using all new parts), as well as the Nerdy Nights 6502 tutorial series, you saw a much faster pace of advancement and quantity of homebrews being released as parts and coding tutorials were now available.  Notable releases were Ultimate Frogger Champion (the first  homebrew released using the Nerdy Nights tutorial series) and Battle Kid (the first highly successful commercial homebrew).  Projects became more ambitious as additional hardware and development support became available going forward. You saw high profile releases such as Micro Mages, Super Russian Roulette, and Project Blue as of late.
    Going back to the period after the Nerdy Nights, NintendoAge became both the hub for development of projects and also the sale of them in the early days.  As a large majority of the userbase on NintendoAge were collectors, this caused friction between people buying to play and people buying to collect.  Collectors saw homebrews, with their limited releases, as a market to speculate on and prices soared.  Some developers sought to take advantage of this, releasing projects just to make money, similar to the early famicom market.  Other developers released projects for more noble reasons, and you therefore saw a large range in the quality of releases.  During the 2013-2015 period a market bubble occurred and eventually it subsided as collector's left the market and became more dominated by players.
    This range in quality of homebrews, and the misunderstanding about what a homebrew actually was, due to mislabeling between pirates, ROMhacks, and homebrews, became the genesis of the creation of The Assembly Line Podcast by Kevin Hanley and E.B.D. "Beau" Holland.  Kevin and Beau decided to bring about public awareness about what a homebrew was, what was happening in the community, and also about what high quality projects were out there.
     
    3. The Assembly Line Podcast

    [Image Credit - ???]
    Once Kevin and Beau decided to start the podcast, they recorded three episodes before announcing the Assembly Line podcast. On 7/20/2017, The Assembly Line Podcast was formally announced on NintendoAge, with the three recorded episodes covering Battle Kid, Tailgate Party, and Star Keeper. These three choices were a great decision to premiere with, and I am not sure if the podcast duo planned it this way, but these three titles showcased the broad range of homebrews at the time.  Battle Kid was the most successful and acclaimed homebrew, Tailgate Party showed the ingenuity of homebrews, using the power pad to play corn hole, and Star Keeper was an extremely collectable and polished title.  

        
    [Left to right - Battle Kid, Tailgate Party, and Star Keeper]
    I was not yet active in the homebrew scene as a player or collector at this point, but instead became more interested as a result of listening to the podcast, along with reading websites like NintendoAge, NES World, Retro Game Network, and playing NESDev compo entries.  Luckily, several people agreed to speak with me and offer their accounts during the time leading up to The Assembly Line premiere.  Let's introduce the listeners being interviewed before we get to what they have to say. 
     

    Bradley Bateman, known as “NESHomebrew”, “Other Brad” online, and “Strange Brew Games”, has been involved in homebrews for many years.  As a beta tester, running the NESDev coding competition since 2014, as well as playing and developing his own games.
     

    Justin Orenich, known as “Neodolphino” online, started as a homebrew player in 2013, then beta testing, and then diving into publishing.  He has published titles such as UXO, Free Cell, Haradius Zero, and is working on bringing over Japan homebrews to the USA under the Neodolphino Productions banner.  Justin is also on the Homebrew Team Staff with Sean (Scrobins) and I (Chris / Deadeye).
     

    Nathan Tolbert, known as “Gauauu'' and “ Bite the Chili Productions” online, came from developing homebrews on the Gameboy Advance and Atari 2600 before moving to the NES in 2016.  He has entered many submissions to the NESDev Compo and is currently working on Anguna and Halcyon. 
     

    Michael Chiaramonte, known as “Clearvus” and “Xelius” online, became aware of the homebrew community as a result of the podcast and is now developing his own game.  You will see him active on the Brewery Channel on VGS Discord and on his YouTube channel, where he streams homebrew development and hosts NES Development tutorials (Zero Pages).  
     

    Assembly Line Listener Interviews 
    Thank you all for joining me and discussing the impacts of The Assembly Line.  I’d like to start by talking about what the representation was like before The Assembly Line.  Was there a lot of confusion or misrepresentation out there about homebrews?
       
    Brad: “For me, homebrew on the NES was my world, so whenever I would come across a post on social media/forums of people shocked that new games were being created for the NES I was always taken aback. I would say that has mostly changed. I think there still exists a lot of confusion over what homebrew games are. With the rise of retro styled indie games, and official ones like Mega Man 9 it's easy for them to be dismissed as one of these. It didn't help that popular online influencers in the retro gaming community often spread misinformation by referring to them as "hacks" and "repros" without first doing their homework.”
    Justin: “Within the scene on NintendoAge and NESDev, I feel like -most- people understood what a homebrew was and how it fit in next to hacks, repros, etc.  Beyond these immediate domains, I think homebrew was still very much an unknown, or an enigma to most people.  Though misrepresentation has significantly improved, it’s still not uncommon to see people unfamiliar with the scene (some of which would even call themselves avid gamers) either be surprised that new games for the NES are being made, or write something off as just a hack of something else.”
    Nathan: “I wasn’t very aware of what was actually out there before late 2016. I wasn’t very involved in NintendoAge, and the NESDev forums, (while having a lot of info about the technology) didn’t have a lot of information about actual _releases_.  I probably would have if I had been involved in NA, but somehow that site never really felt welcoming to me.”
    Michael: “I honestly can’t say because I didn’t really know what homebrews were. That said, I think after the podcast was started, Beau and Kevin have done a great job of spreading the word of homebrew and what homebrew really is.”
     

    What about after The Assembly Line began and was releasing episodes.  How did it feel to suddenly have a podcast representing homebrews, discussing them,  and interviewing development teams?
    Brad: “I was pumped when Beau and Kevin started up the podcast. I was a big fan of the Dogs Cast by Rob Bryant, but that faded away long ago. I'm sure it didn't help that his release schedule seemed pretty much unsustainable. Burn out was inevitable. With the Assembly line, it seemed pretty organized and planned out ahead of time which was great! It was awesome to finally put some voices behind these mysterious user names I've been following for years.”
    Justin: “It felt pretty great, especially knowing the guys who were putting it out there - made it even more rewarding to root for their success.  It was nice to hear them lay out and reinforce what homebrews were, and what they were not.  It was also great to get a lot of the historical background injected into the narrative, and finally -hear- from some of the developers out there.”
    Nathan: “It was great, since the podcast started soon after I joined the scene. (just a few months after I had met Kevin and Beau at PRGE). I think it really improved the sense of community (which is one of my favorite parts of the NESDev scene), by getting to hear from people that you’ve read about online. Instead of wondering “who is this person that made this Owlia game?” I got to hear him chat about it. I think it really fostered a better sense of community.”
    Michael: “It was surprising and exciting! I went from having no idea to becoming really excited about and interested in all things NES homebrew.”

    Oh, this is great to hear that many of you felt the same as I did listening to the podcast.  I want to hear some more about the podcast and yourself.  Can you let me know what kind of impact the Podcast had on you?  
    Brad: “To be honest, the podcast has been very motivating for me. It came out at a time where I was questioning a lot about the decisions I had made, and other than the yearly competition, I wasn't really contributing much to the community. I used to try and be involved with every new homebrew project I learned about (mainly beta testing), but I wasn't really reaching out to new devs like I used to. I used to work shift work, so the long form podcasts were a great way to pass the time. I would listen to them all in order, then start over again at the beginning. I never got bored, and I was always entertained and excited to hear from the devs again. Many times throughout the podcasts I would find myself daydreaming and designing games in my head. I had to start a journal to keep track of all the ideas inspired by the podcast.”
    Justin: “It made me excited to see homebrews being put out on a medium to reach a larger/new audience, but overall, I don’t know that it specifically impacted me - well, other than gaining some additional knowledge.  It -did- provide me with a lot of good listening on long commutes, so I guess maybe there’s the potential it kept me awake/alive!”
    Nathan: “It made the people seem a lot more “real” and helped the community feel connected. It also inspired me to keep working, after hearing interviews with folks about their completed games, and daydreaming of eventually having my own finished game to talk about on the podcast. Hearing Derek, or Rob, or Tomas, etc, talk about their games has been incredibly fun. That combined with the #brewery discord, has been what has made nesdev so much fun to me.”
    Michael: “It did a few things. It encouraged me to check out homebrews and start playing and buying more of them, which was awesome. It also encouraged me to make my own homebrew, which is currently in progress. And finally, because I got involved in homebrew and the community, I’ve made some really good friends.”
     

    Wow, overall a positive impact in many different areas.  A grounded sense of members in the community, bringing exposure to homebrews, and inspiration to start or keep working on your own games.  I agree on all these points.  I can listen to the Assembly Line episodes over and over.  It inspires me to one day work on my own games and I do feel the community became more approachable for me.  I could connect projects with their creators and understand the logic and drive of their passions.  
    Let’s keep this going.  What about the podcast overall, I’d like to get more of a feel of what you think of it.  Can you share some more?  
    Brad: “At this point, I'm sure it is fairly obvious that I'm a huge fan. I knew Kevin and Beau prior to the podcast (so maybe I'm biased), but it's been great to hear other people who are just as passionate about homebrew as I am.”
    Justin: “I think it is well done and brings a lot of great information to the table.  It has also continued to improve despite being so cool from the get-go.  Anything that gives good exposure to homebrew is good in my book, and this does it in a robust and new way.  My only complaint early on was hearing occasional negative bias/low blows or avoidance of some areas in homebrew due to those biases - perhaps unintentionally.  This has all but disappeared, and each episode is very enjoyable.”
    Nathan: “I love it. I just need more episodes 🙂 I like the combination of discussing philosophical ideas about homebrew, interviewing game creators, and providing general news about the scene. All of those are great. (I don’t care as much about the game music portions, but hey, that’s fine!)”
    Michael: “I think it’s great. Kevin and Beau have great “on-air” rapport and do a really good job of communicating information about what’s going on both with their own projects and within the community. I wish there were more episodes!”
     
    We are synced on this as well.  The rapport and structure of the podcast make me keep listening and wishing for more episodes.  
    We covered how the podcast impacted you; what about the impacts the podcast had beyond you, in the greater community or the public.  Do you think the podcast has informed and expanded the reach of homebrews?
    Brad: “I think the podcast has definitely impacted the greater community. I just bought a CIB homebrew release the other day from a professional developer who heard about NES homebrew through the podcast, and now he has his own game, and is working on another!  I have no idea how many people subscribe to the podcast, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who are interested in the NES that organically come across it and check it out.”
    Justin: “I think it has provided those new (and even old) to the scene with additional info and insight into homebrews and those who make them.  It’s a great companion to the world of NES homebrew.” 
    Nathan: “I don’t have a good sense of the reach of the podcast beyond the core community of people already doing nesdev (the people that I chat with in discord or nesdev forums, many of whom I also see at conventions, etc). Does it inform or expand the reach of homebrews? I have no idea, to be honest. To me, the big impact is the fun it brings within the community itself.”
    Michael: “I think it helped spawn the popularity of homebrews that we’re seeing right now. If the podcast hadn’t been there to make it more accessible, I think we wouldn’t have things like NESMaker and the communities of people we’re seeing playing and making homebrews right now.”


    It does feel as though the community has grown a lot since The Assembly Line debuted. You see much more discussion on social media, in chiptune circles, pixel artist circles, and elsewhere.  I want to hear more about what you think, what about the progress for homebrews since 2016 / 2017? How has the last few years been for homebrews?
    Brad: “It's been a really interesting three years… I can honestly say I'm not 100% in favour of every direction homebrew on the NES has gone. Maybe I'm just old and grumpy, but I miss the small passionate homebrew community we helped build on Nintendoage. I don't have the energy these days to contribute to forums. I spend most of my time on discord and twitter, but you have to do a lot of filtering on those platforms. I find it really interesting that homebrew development in Japan seems to be ramping up. Either that, or I am finally being exposed to it (via twitter). I just wish I could read Japanese so I could better appreciate what is going on over there. It's pretty cool that there have been a number of games commissioned by celebrities, which has probably led to the highest level of exposure the community has seen in a long time.  Overall, I'm excited for the future, and as always am highly anticipating the next episode of the Assembly Line!”
    Justin: “I think overall, the creativity, quality, and breadth of the games has increased significantly in that time.  Sure there are some classics made a while back that are, and always will be great games, but the talent that has been drawn into the community over the past few years is amazing.”
    Nathan: “When I first started, it seemed like licensed-quality homebrews were pretty rare. There were a lot of smaller or experimental games, but not as many of the quality of Lizard, Trophy, etc. I’ve been amazed at the progress in the last 4 years. Game after game is high quality. It’s amazing. Some of the recent stuff coming out has been incredible.”
    Michael: “I believe we’re seeing bigger and more ambitious projects than before. More people are making larger, commercial quality games despite being small independent development teams. This seems to be in direct contrast to how it had been before, where bigger games were a rarity and mostly people released tech demos. It’s been really great to see the change since 2017 and I’m glad that I got involved at that time (even if I really wish I had known about it waaaaay sooner).”

    I can’t argue with that.  There have been more and more ambitious “licensed quality” homebrews that have been both critically and commercially successful.  You see more people discussing them, whether on their YouTube channels, speed runs on GGDQ or just discussing them in general video games circles rather than just within the homebrew central community.  
    It was great to talk with all of you!  Thank you for answering my questions and sharing your thoughts.
     
    We got a bit of everything from that listener panel, but let’s move back to talking about the Podcast.  So where has The Assembly Line gone from its three episode premiere?  Well, we are at 22 episodes and 2 bonus holidays episodes at the time of this blog episode publication.  Beau and Kevin have covered great games:  
     
    Episodes to date:
    01 - Battle Kid  (6/3/2017)
    02 - Tailgate Party (6/15/2017)
    03 - Star Keeper (7/13/2017)
    04 - The Mad Wizard (8/10/2017)
    05 - HBWC 2012 (9/6/2017)
    06 - Alter Ego (9/25/2017)
    07 - Spook-o’-tron (12/4/2017)
    08 - Haunted Halloween '85 (12/17/2017)
    XX - Bonus Holiday 2017 (12/23/2017)
    09 - Quest Forge (2/25/2018)
    10 - NESDev 2017 Part 1 (3/14/2018)
    11 - NESDev 2017 Part 2 (6/5/2018)
    12 - Lizard (7/24/2018)
    13 - Micro Mages (9/12/2018)
    14 - The Incident (10/10/2018)
    15 - The Legends of Owlia (11/26/2018)
    16 - 8-Bit XMAS 2018 (1/2/2019)
    17 - Eskimo Bob (2/18/2019)
    18 - Candelabra Estoscerro (4/13/2019)
    19 - NEScape! (10/17/2019)
    20 -  Nebs n’ Debs (2/5/2020)
    21 - Trophy (2/29/2020)
    22 - The Tale of Two Thomi (10/7/2020)
    XX - Bonus Holiday 2020 (12/23/2020)
     
    Besides the homebrews covered, entertaining format, and endearing hosts, I think the podcast has really delivered on its core mission.  It has helped dispel misinformation around homebrews and delivered on bringing exposure to quality homebrew titles.  Besides it’s core mission, the podcast shines in the interviews it has done.  Developers, chiptune artists, and graphic artists have been on the show to discuss their projects.  We get to put a person and personality with these projects and at the same time, glean information about their creative processes in getting the idea to completion.  It is not only inspiring to look at a completed homebrew, but even more so to hear about it from the developers themselves.    
    Well enough about what I think.  How has the podcast done in the broader realm compared to all other podcasts, regardless of topic?  Listennotes sets The Assembly Line as the “Top 5% most popular shows out of 1,850,442 podcasts globally”. 
     
    [Listennotes]

    Another, more focused review, by Dougeff, stated, “The Assembly Line discusses all aspects of NES homebrewing, and live interviews with homebrewers. I’ve listened to them, and rate it a “must listen” broadcast for anyone programming the NES, or just anyone interested in games and game production.”  Couldn’t have said it better myself.
    I think Kevin and Beau waited long enough, let’s hear from the hosts. 

    4. Host Interviews
     
    Kevin Hanley (KHAN Games)

     
    Kevin, thanks for joining me to talk about The Assembly Line.  I have a list of things to discuss with you and Beau.  I thought it would be interesting to hear what each of you have to say independently.  Let's dive right in.
    You have touched upon the origins of the Assembly Line during the span of the podcast, (summarizing) that it spawned during a roadtrip to MAGfest one year while listening to another podcast, adding that you two could do that. Can you expand a little bit more about how that spur-of-the-moment comment, that could have been just a fleeting thought, actually became the podcast? How did you go from two people sharing a car to producing a show?
    Well, to be fair I think Beau likes to say that's how it originated. And of course he tends to have a better memory than me, but I recall pitching the idea of a podcast to him before that roadtrip happened. But Beau, as he likes to say, hasn't listened to any other podcasts and doesn't even really know how any of the other ones are structured, so I wanted him to hear something on that road trip to give him an idea of how podcasts worked. The podcast we listened to, of course, had nothing to do with video games, so it wasn't a very good example, but it probably gave him a decent idea of how the format could be used.

    Speaking of Beau, the two of you work well together, bringing both a contrast of ideas and also personalities to the table. How important do you think this contrast is to the show’s success?
    I honestly think it's crucial to the success. I've listened to some podcasts that have a single host, or a series of revolving hosts, and the dynamic between the people leading the podcast really do make or break it. I think Beau and I balance each other out pretty well. Even outside the podcast realm, just personality wise, we have been able to bounce things off one another and if one of us has a bad day or a bad encounter with someone or something, the other person is there to put things in perspective and help quell whatever drama is building.
    But in regards to the podcast specifically, he is a huge research person, a huge philosophical person, constantly analyzing features of games and seeing what they mean in some grand context and I'm more of a simpleton. "This is good. This makes me happy. This is fun." Since we come at things from completely different ways I think it keeps things fresh. And we're so at ease with one another at this point that it's just fun, you know? We can be ourselves and I think our admiration and respect for one another shows throughout.

    I can’t agree more.  The dynamic between the two of you brings multiple sides to an issue or the conversation at hand and honestly, makes for a very entertaining listen.  It also adds more personality to the show and the material being presented.  I am a fan of this style podcast.
    Before we talk a bit more in depth about the podcast, I have another question regarding you and Beau.  How has your friendship with each other evolved over time? From Beau being a fan of your work, to friends, and then to podcast partners?
    Well, it's hard to really take a step back and see how it's evolved because even from the first time we met right outside Canada at a video game store, I asked him if I could hug him or something weird like that. I don't know what it is, but I've always had an affinity for him. He puts me at ease and I feel like we understand one another pretty well. He's my best friend, so it's nice that we continue to share this passion and can constantly see what the other person is working on and encourage and support one another. We've been close for many years now and really only had two serious fights. One of which was in regards to a podcast episode. Good times. 🙂


    That is heartwarming and I am glad to hear you get along so well even outside of the podcast.  I am a bit interested in the disagreements, but I’ll leave that alone.
    Fast forwarding a little, you hit the ground running and begun releasing episodes. If I recall correctly, eventually you wanted to enhance the quality of the audio, which required more space and bandwidth for hosting the podcast, which needed monetary investment for equipment and hosting. The two of you ended up going with Patreon.  How did you approach the idea for community support? Was the amount of backers surprising?
    Well, neither of us really wanted to "source" any sort of money from the community for the podcast. It just seemed like begging, or like it would come across like we were asking for handouts, so we were both pretty opposed to the idea for some time, but we had a number of listeners constantly reaching out, basically volunteering to send money when we weren't even asking for it, so I took it upon myself to just create the Patreon and give them an outlet to show support. When it started I figured it would just be those few people and I would take whatever they pledged and put it toward the annual SoundCloud charge for hosting the podcast MP3s, but every month it seemed to grow larger and larger. The amount of backers really is truly surprising. Especially because after Beau moved into his house and his internet became spotty our episodes started becoming more and more infrequent, but still people haven't canceled their pledges. It really does help a huge amount! The SoundCloud charge has gone up to close to $200 a year at this point, so having the money set aside to put toward that really does help us out tremendously!
    There are costs for doing a podcast and I don’t see it as begging.  As a supporter myself, I am happy to continue support.  
    Let’s dive into the podcast and the episodes.  After working together for a few years, you have interviewed many people and looked at many projects. Has researching and interviewing different developer’s approaches and challenges impacted your own work?
    No, I've always sort of done my own weird things. I can't really say that it's been influenced by the podcast.


    Looking at the planning of episodes, how do you choose the next episode’s topics and which project to cover?
    We actually put a lot of stock into what game we're going to be featuring. If we've featured a number of new games, we try to pick one that is a bit older so they aren't all from the same time period, hopefully from a developer that we haven't touched on a lot. The more variety the better, as far as I'm concerned. But our criteria always only consists of the games that we think are truly noteworthy in some way, that we really want to feature. Even if some of those early games that came out in the 2000s aren't nearly at the level as some of the more recent stuff, they really did lay the groundwork for what is happening now, so it's nice to touch on those so people who weren't around back then can really get an appreciation for how things happened and maybe even why they happened. It's easy to judge all games equally, but a lot of times contextualizing some of the older stuff really does help put things into perspective.


    I do appreciate that mix of different periods of homebrews and creators, it does add that context like you said.  Another large portion of the episodes is the interviews.  How do you approach that part?  I imagine you plan your questions and have prepared follow up questions based on an expected interviewee answer. How do you handle the curveball answers that take you possibly off the tracks you had prepared? Are you suddenly doing improv?
    We are doing improv in that situation, yes. We typically both write up individual questions ahead of time and then before the interview we will create a Google doc with both of our questions. We eliminate any duplicates, but we don't typically have follow up questions based on what we think someone might say. After an answer is given if we want to ask follow up questions or go on tangents, that's all off the cuff. I think we've both gotten better over time of taking things that someone answers and using those as a related segue into another topic we had planned to talk about. Sometimes it's really seamless, and when that happens it's always a good feeling.


    Detouring away from the podcast for a moment, you and Beau are very approachable online to talk to about homebrews, development, video games, or just shoot the breeze. Is being open to community outreach important to you?
    It's become more and more important over the years. I think I've told this story a number of times by now, but one night Rob from Sly Dog Studios and I were up late chatting. I think back when AOL Instant Messenger was a thing, actually, so that probably puts into perspective how long ago it was. But it was early on in the scene and there weren't a lot of people involved in the creation of homebrews. We were emphasizing to one another how incredible it was that we were making games for the system we grew up loving. It's still insane to think about! But we were wondering why more people weren't doing it, so right at that moment was when I wanted to put myself out there and see if I could somehow be a catalyst to help more people become involved. Plus as the years have gone on, I've thought of myself more and more as a figurehead of the scene. For whatever reason people have looked toward me as a sort of authority figure in the scene, so I've taken that more seriously the last few years. Especially with the podcast now. I feel like what I say has a little bit of weight and I try to be conscious of that and try to use my platform in ways to benefit us all. And if that means being here to answer questions and try to help others get involved, absolutely, I love it.


    Being involved in homebrew development and doing retrospectives on the games, it puts you in a unique position with both first hand experience and a journalistic separation. How has it been seeing the evolution of homebrews and where do you think they are going in the future?
    It really has been amazing to see how far we've come! When you think back to some of the early "production" homebrews, like Tic Tac XO and Sudoku 2007, they were really basic games in graphics, features, sound, etc. As more and more games "broke through" to mainstream gamers, it seems like more and more accomplished programmers found out that we existed and decided to give NES homebrew a shot. With games like Battle Kid and Micro Mages more and more people are seeing what we are doing and they're coming to add their unique perspectives and expertise to the scene and really propelling us further and further. It's really hard to guess where we're going in the future, but my hope is more and more great games. I think at this point we are beyond "licensed quality" and we are creating amazing games. Not "retro games." We are just creating amazing games that are fun to play that don't have to be categorized. They stand alone as works of art with tight controls, great stories, amazing music. Let's keep it going. 🙂


    I agree with that.  I see more and more homebrews that are beyond licensed quality and going mainstream.  And it is exciting to see projects get announced.  Speaking of going mainstream, how has it felt seeing NES homebrews being ported to current gen consoles? Think this market will continue to grow and see future releases?
    It makes me proud, for sure. It just further proves my previous point that games aren't just "retro homebrew games" anymore. These games are just good games that need to be enjoyed by as many people as we can get them in front of, and the logical next step was definitely bringing them to modern systems so a whole new audience can experience them. I definitely think the market will continue to grow and see future releases, but I'm curious to see how the market actually is for them. I haven't heard any numbers as far as how many units Haunted Halloween is selling on the next-gen systems, but my hope is that even if it's starting slow, just like the scene itself, it will continue to grow.


    It seems you have your hands in many different projects.  How do you find the time to balance your work life, homebrews, the podcast, and your personal life?
    The secret to me, personally, is not to have a personal life. Also, I am very fortunate to have a job where I can work on homebrew and podcast stuff on the clock. (Don't tell my boss). It doesn't become overwhelming too often. The hardest parts are the nights when we actually record the podcast, because some of those sessions go 3-4 hours for multiple nights a week, as we record segments, do interviews, etc, so you just have to pretty much shut off whatever else is going on in your life and focus on that and just knock it out.


    Before we close, I wanted to ask a question for the aspiring developers or podcasters out there.  Any pointers or advice for them?
    Well, the easy answer is to ask questions, but I know when you're just getting started it's hard knowing what to even ask or how to ask it. I guess just follow your desires and focus on the things that interest you. Find others who share your interests and you'll be surprised to find years later that some of those same people have become your best friends.
    My life definitely wouldn't be the same without NES homebrew (I actually have no idea what I'd be doing with my life if I had never gotten involved) but I am truly happy to be here and I want to thank everyone who has supported me or the scene in any way. Hopefully we can continue doing this for years to come.
    Thank you Kevin for the time and conversation.  
    Let’s see what the other co-host has to say.  Beau are you there??


    E.B.D. Holland (Sole Goose Productions)

     
    We have Kevin’s side of the podcast.  I want to hear your side and opinion.  Let’s get into it…. 
    Listening to the podcast, the origins of the Assembly Line has been touched upon before, (summarizing) that it spawned during a road trip to MAGfest one year while listening to another podcast and that it was commented that you two could do a podcast as well. Can you expand a little bit more about how that spur-of-the-moment comment, actually became the podcast? 
    Credit for that all goes to Kevin. It was something that he wanted to do, and he made it happen. He said that he’d make it easy on me too, offering to do all of the editing (ha!), and even sending me a mic in the mail. I had no excuses to not get on board. We discussed the format together, and I based most of what I wanted to do around a zine that I had drawn up plans for back then. At the time we had zero clue about how long talking over issues would take, and I ended cutting up tons from those early episodes due to detailed overplanning. The idea as a whole, though, transferred well to a live chat. Other than that all credit goes to Kevin.


    One of the components to the show is a contrast of ideas, but also opinions and personalities.  How important do you think this contrast is to the show’s success?
    If it works for friendship, I guess it must work for the show. Like anything in life, agreement can be boring. You need some differences to keep things interesting.
     
     I can understand that point of view.  It does keep things interesting. 
    After working together for a few years, you have interviewed many people and looked at many projects.  Has researching and interviewing different developer’s approaches and challenges impacted your own work?
    Most definitely. One of the most pivotal was interviewing Derek (Gradual Games), and seeing exactly how he built the massive work that is Trophy. On the drive back from his house I got to thinking about how I was really going to build my dream RPG, and I hashed out an idea for an NES-based level editor. I guess I had already done that with Spook-o’-tron, but this project required it to be on a much greater scale. Derek’s methods had a direct impact on what followed (see future blog post on the making of The Convention Quest for details).


    Very interesting.  I hoped that not just the listeners were inspired by the interviews, but also the hosts.  Excited to see and learn more about your RPG in the future.
    Let’s fast forward a bit after you kept releasing more episodes.  How did you approach the idea for community support through Patreon?  Was the amount of backers surprising?
    All credit for that again goes to Kevin. He has taken care of it all to the point that I can’t even tell you how it works. I don’t think that I have ever even looked at the Patreon page. 


    What about the episode content.. specifically the planning, how do you choose the next episode’s topics and which project to cover?
    The podcast exists because it is fun for us to do; if it was not, we simply wouldn’t do it. That’s the philosophy behind what games we choose as well. We play what we want to play! The show is an excuse to dust things off that have just been sitting on the shelf, and really spend the time diving into them. Indeed, I do not even play most games anymore until we are ready to do an episode on them, which is always awkward when someone asks if I’ve played their game yet since that answer is usually no. I like to go in fresh and share genuine feelings about what I have just played.
    The one exception to that philosophy is that we try to mix up the genres some. With the NES it is all too easy to play platformers one after the other, and that would make for both boring episodes and a boring gaming life.


    I can understand that, I hear that often: content creators that start a YouTube or blog series to play through their backlog of games or to research them.  Beyond that, the Assembly Line takes it a step further and does interviews with the development teams.  How do you go about your interview?  Do you plan out questions and have prepared follow up questions based on an expected interviewee answer?  If so, how do you handle the curveball answers that take you possibly off the tracks you had prepared? Are you suddenly doing improv?
    After the first few heavily planned interviews we decided to plan less, and it has yielded better results. We each come up with a list of 5-10 questions, I put them into some sort of coherent, alternating order, and we do it live as they say. Our only goal is to get the guest comfortable and talking, and we design the questions around that. This also allows the guest to take things in the direction they want, and if they go too off of the rails that’s ok. We do a lot of editing to make it listenable in the end, but we want people to show up and just be themselves. 10-20 questions can easily become two hours of conversation, and we want the interviews to be 20-40 minutes in the end, so lots of editing happens in all cases!


    Detouring away from the podcast for a moment, you and Kevin are very approachable online to talk to about homebrews, development, video games, or just shoot the breeze.  Is being open to community outreach important to you?
    Hahaha, I wouldn’t phrase it like that, but sure. I have no goals for “outreach” or whatnot. We’re just people who enjoy other people. Homebrewing might be the initial common interest, but talk quickly turns to life things when discussing even the simplest of gaming related events.
     
    Haha, yep the conversations happen to do so.  Well, speaking of common interest, with you being a homebrew developer and doing retrospectives on other homebrews, puts you in a unique position.  How has it been seeing the evolution of homebrews and where do you think they are going in the future?
    I got into the scene rather late, or so it felt at the time. As I see it there have been three major movements: the early exploratory years that primarily resulted in ROM releases, the transitional period of “brewery” physical releases, and the push toward licensed quality games. Each of those has existed at every time, and will continue to do so, but the tone of the community as a whole has shifted. There was a time when physical releases were looked down on, whereas now people will not play a game unless it is released physically!
    As for the future, who knows? Hobbyist communities grow and die (see the early aughts GBA community, for example), but as long as people are taking the time to learn how to program we’ll be here for a while. The cry of “homebrew is dead” that we heard a lot around 2015 has all but vanished as things have become more mainstream and new people have joined.


    I find it interesting that you see yourself as a late arrival to homebrew development, whereas I see you as a link between all those movements.  I can reach out to you to discuss or verify information, as you were there during it.  
    Let’s look at the present and future for a moment.  How has it felt seeing NES homebrews being ported to current gen consoles?  Do you think this market will continue to grow and see future releases?
    One hopes! It allows for bigger and better homebrew projects due to the community support (motivational and/or financial), but these are also the types of games that I personally want to play. I don’t really care for 3D games or 2D games with silky smooth modern art, so keep those pixels alive and well!


    So you develop, write, podcast, and have other endeavors.  How do you find the time to balance your work life, homebrews, the podcast, and your personal life?
    Frankly, I don’t. For better or worse, I have a bit of a one-track mind and I tend to be involved in things in an all-or-nothing fashion. If I read a book, I want to write books. If I play a game, I want to make a game. I have a desire to create things, and it flows from whatever my interests are. Thank goodness I don’t know how to play any instruments, or I’d never get anything done!
    My goal in life was always to do what I loved work-wise, and homebrewing has allowed for that in more ways than I could have expected. That is probably why it is about more than just the games for me; it’s the people, the events, the process, the struggles, and more that make it interesting. That also allows me to ping pong around to different aspects and find a certain sense of refreshment. If I’m tired of thinking about making games myself, there is usually something happening in the community that can attract my interest. It is funny too, since when we do have gatherings of people, the last thing we tend to talk about are games!


    Very true.  Before we close, I am wondering if you have some advice or pointers for aspiring developers or podcasters out there?
    Do what you love, and do it because you love it. Setting some sort of end goal other than self-satisfaction either won’t see a project through to the end, or it will lead to distorted results. It’s pretty easy to see when someone has ulterior ends in mind, and passion projects shine like beacons in the night. Sales or listeners are nice, but would you still be doing it if they were not around? These are the questions I ask myself often, as I reflect on different things.
    Thank you Beau for the insight and advice, but also for your time.    


    5. Closing
    There you have it.  Some origins of how we got from the early days to the podcast, but also first hand accounts and answers from the co-hosts of the podcast itself.  I’d imagine if you are reading this, you were already a listener and fan of The Assembly line and are looking forward to more episodes.  If so, hopefully you walked away with some new information.  If not, check out an Assembly Line episode.
     
  10. Deadeye
    Homebrews in Focus - 001 Unexploded Ordnance (UXO)
    Looking at how Minesweeper was finally brought to the Nintendo and what its development was like.  Let's take a dive into this homebrew game that is much more than a port of a computer classic, but a game that stands on its own.  The mine detection and disarming puzzle logic game, Unexploded Ordnance.

    [Regular Edition, Special Edition Cart in NES Front Loader]
    Contents:
    1. Intro
    2. Origins
    3. Minesweeper The Game
    4. UXO Development
    5. UXO The Game
    6. Review
    7. Interviews
     
    1. Intro
    Minesweeper for the NES! I mean Unexploded Ordnance.  Luckily its acronym caught on and it is almost universally referred to as UXO.  You may be thinking why a homebrew computer port?  Well actually, the Nintendo had its fair share of computer ports, over a hundred in fact[1].  The ones that may come to mind might be the early RPGs, like Ultima, Wizardry, or The Bard’s Tale.  Or you might recall text adventure games, like Maniac Mansion, Deja Vu, or Shadowgate.  
    However, one category that did not get enough ports was logic puzzles.  Sure, we got Tetris and Pipe Dream, but overall I think we missed out, especially with some of the “classic” windows games.  I like to think that is why Neodolphino Productions stepped in as a homebrew developer with a mission to bring this genre to the Nintendo.  Freecell and Minesweeper are checked off that list.  Can we expect Golf or Jezzball in the future… perhaps a downward skier?
    I think we lucked out.  Out of all the Windows Entertainment Pack games that could have gotten ported, the team picked the game that ultimately became UXO to develop and release.  UXO, at its core, is fundamentally Minesweeper.  It does add some unique things and improvements on top of that Minesweeper foundation, but we will get into that later.  Before we do, I think it is important to go back to the source material and talk about the history and impact of Minesweeper.
     
    2. Origins
    In concept Minesweeper has some origins in the 1970s with Jerimac Ratliff's Cube, a game for mainframe computers, but more directly with Relentless Logic .  There were other mine and bomb games between, but Relentless Logic, released for DOS in 1985, was more or less the predecessor to Minesweeper.  It was a mine detection puzzle game played on a grid.  It was eventually cloned and released on the O/S2, an early GUI operating system by IBM and Microsoft.

    [Relentless logic 1985]
    Eventually that clone became Minesweeper.  The source code of that O/S2 clone game, with the creator’s permission, was used to develop a minesweeping game for Windows (WinMine), which became known as Minesweeper at release in 1990 on Windows 3.0 with the Microsoft Entertainment Pack 1.  Microsoft needed to boost the appeal of the operating system going forward.  They saw that Minesweeper could offer them something.  With the release of Windows 3.1, Minesweeper became standard with the operating system.  Since then, Minesweeper has more or less remained the same game.

    [Minesweeper 1990]
     
    3. Minesweeper The Game
    You start the play session with a blank grid of covered tiles.  You can start on beginner mode, 9x9 grid, intermediate mode, 16x16 grid, expert mode, 30x16 grid, or custom mode, where you can set the grid size and number on mines.  You are presented with a top status bar of number of remaining mines, an avatar (a smiley face that changes based on your actions), and a time elapsed counter.  You are given puzzle clues while flipping tiles over and your goal is to uncover all the “safe” tiles, leaving the mines covered and more importantly unexploded.  (Nudge nudge, your unexploded ordnance….I couldn't resist.  Please forgive).  

    [Minesweeper in Windows 3.1, Gif Credit: Iain Mew - Medium]
    How deep the challenge and skill goes reminds me a lot of the community scene around Tetris.  Just like Tetris, there is a large competition and community behind the game with advanced strategies, legendary players, and world records.
    With the minesweeper backstory out of the way, let’s get into the nitty gritty of UXO.  
     
    4. UXO Development   
    Team:
    Production - Neodolphino Productions [Justin Orenich - @neodolphino]
    Programming - Fg Soft [Antoine Fantys - @Vectrex28]
    Graphics - Fg Soft [Antoine Fantys - @Vectrex28]
    Music - Bleep Bop Records [Thomas Ragonnet - @zi]
    Theme Design - Retrojan Designs [Eric.of.Troy Eichelberger - @eric.of.troy]
    Testing: Matt Beppler, E.B.D. Holland ( @SoleGoose )
     
    [Limited Edition release pictured above]
    Released:
    Two editions of UXO were released in 2016.  A limited edition (LE), pictured above, and regular edition (RE), pictured at top of article.
    The limited edition included a camo painted metal case with a complete in box copy of the game, letter, land mine technical manual, ID badge, USB on dog tags, Charms candy, and a toy metal detector.  There were 25 limited editions made and sold out soon after initial offering.
    The regular edition included a complete in box copy of the game with randomized special edition cart (landmine and counter inside shell).
     
    5. UXO The Game
      
    [Left - UXO title screen, Right-Easy difficulty gameplay GIF]

    So back to Unexploded Ordnance for the Nintendo.  Justin from Neodolphino worked with programmer Antoine and musician Thomas to bring his concept to realization.  The team implemented a series of improvements and unique features to the project, making the game fitting for a console release. 
    Looking back at Minesweeper, besides the tile graphic of a mine, there isn’t really anything that leans into the theme of a person tasked with a mission to recover unexploded mines.  That is the kind of mission that would be tasked by a trained elite military ground trooper.  However, there are no such elements apparent in Microsoft’s Minesweeper.  No military graphics, no fitting music, nor rewards to come with the successful mission as a person risking their life in the line of duty.  Even the face you see on screen reacting to your inputs is a nondescript face.  
    UXO corrects these issues on the console with a more fitting and surrounding world.  You have a selection of camo themes to choose from, several military themed music tracks, a soldier avatar replaces that smiley face one, and for your success, a medal of valor is your reward.  In addition, you have a scoreboard to best your own times and a secret minigame.
     
    [Left - Theme options, Right-Medal of Valor]

    [Avatar reactions]
    To get deeper into the gameplay, it plays much like Minesweeper.  You pick your difficulty, which dictates the grid size and number of mines,  and you are off to mine detection.  Your goals are the same as we discussed above in Minesweeper.  Uncover all the safe tiles while leaving the mines behind, unexploded.  You flip the tiles with the A button and mark the suspected mines with a Flag by pressing the B button.  As you uncover the safe areas, you are presented with tiles that have numbers on them.  The number indicates how many mines are touching the tile in the eight directions around it.  This varies in difficulty and complexity with the grid szie and number of mines.
    Easy, 9x9 with 10 mines
    Medium, 16x16 with 40 mines
    Hard, 30x16 with 99 mines
    This is where the logic puzzle comes into play.  You use these numbers in combination with other numbered tiles you uncovered in the play field to figure out the puzzle.  You either avoid the mines or you can “flag” them.  The flag is for you to mark it and keep track of where you believe the mines are.  Once all the safe tiles are flipped, leaving only unexploded mines remaining, you win the round.  
    The draw of the game is that logic puzzle aspect.  As you become proficient in it, you increase the difficulty by increasing the number of mines and grid size. As you do this, the complexity ramps up and is no longer a fly by the seat of your pants kind of game. 
     
    [Play through of Easy and Medium difficulty boards with light commentary]
     
    6. Review
    Well is it enjoyable??  I certainly think so.  If you like Minesweeper, you will enjoy it.  If the world of Minesweeper never drew you in, perhaps the improvements and surrounding world that the UXO team implemented will draw you in.  Those improvements and additions really correct what was missing from its computer classic origins.  Out of the options available to you, my preferred presets are Navy theme and Music type B and I hope you like them to because that is what I use in the play through video above, hahaha.
    Besides the enjoyment factor, two questions may come to mind for someone who has not played UXO before.  The controls, switching from a mouse to a D-pad, and the cost.  I got used to the d-pad very quickly.  You are not controlling a mouse pointer on screen, that would have not been successful in my opinion.  The position is fixed to the grid.  One d-pad press, moves one grid tile.  Holding the d-pad, moves the position faster.  Antoine got this right.  It never feels tedious or as if you are not in control.  As far as worth it, the cost of ownership of the regular edition is lower than most homebrews.  $35 for a CIB game.  Very affordable compared to the more or less standard $60.  Much like Tetris, many hours of entertainment can be had many times over.
     
    7. Interviews

    Now that we got the history, the game play, and my opinions out of the way, it is a good time to talk with the development team.  What are things to clue us into how they got from concept to completion, what tools did they use, and what problems did they encounter along the way.
     

    Neodolphino Productions
    Chris:  Before we get into UXO and its development, I was wondering about the origins of Neodolphino Productions.  You have been in the NES homebrew scene for a number of years now.  Whether it has been showcasing homebrews on convention tours or developing your own games.  What drove you to become this involved and not just a fan and player of the games?
    Justin: I originally became involved in the homebrew community in 2013, after discovering the KHAN Games ( @KHAN Games ) release of Study Hall – a fantastic, original homebrew game.  This sort of launched me off into the deep end of NES homebrew.  It started with avid (or perhaps rabid) collecting, but eventually a desire to do a bit more developed.  I did do some beta testing, which was great, but that also wasn’t enough.  I was in medical school at the time, and as many others have said, I just didn’t feel like I had the time or background to program my own game.  I did, however, have small chunks of time I could devote to learn more about how the games were made, and decided I wanted to work on a project where I could learn to build carts, and get a bit creative with putting them out.
    I then had the opportunity to inexpensively buy the rights for a very small, and extremely simple game – 1007 Bolts, released by Nemesis (the original version is available to place in Action 53 vol 2).  I used this opportunity to have some modest improvements made to the game with the help of Memblers ( @Memblers ), and then produce a small, but pretty cool LE release.  A good chunk of the profit went to NintendoAge, and the rest pretty much went back into feeding my homebrew collecting habit, and the development of UXO.  I learned a lot (and made many mistakes) about making carts from donors, and making a simple NROM multi-cart (thanks to a tutorial by Callan Brown).
     
    Chris: Did you have any inspirations as far as developers or games, either during the licensed era or in the homebrew era?
    Justin: Aside from my obvious pilfering of the Kojima Productions FOX logo for my own, I’d say – regarding homebrew – that pretty much anyone who takes the time to build a NES game from scratch and put it out there Is a huge inspiration to me.
     
    Chris: So let's look at Unexploded Ordnance, what was the inspiration or drive to bring Minesweeper to the Nintendo? It seems like there is a pattern here with the release of Free Cell as well?  Are you working on a larger project or theme with these titles?
    Justin: I guess overall it seemed like a relatively simple game that hadn’t been ported to the system yet.  From this though, grew the idea to release a “Entertainment Pack” of sorts for the NES.  This vision led to the production of Freecell and was eventually going to spawn another game or two in the same vein.  I wanted to release them all together on a cartridge, modeled after the Microsoft Entertainment Pack.  This eventually evolved into me wanting to dabble in Famicom Disk System development – and I had a plan to release a 2 disk compilation.  This would have 2 games per disk (one on each side), or 3 games total, with a side of one disk reserved for a faux operating system for the NES.  This eventually snowballed into me commissioning Vi Grey to build an actual operating system for the NES – the NEoS, as it is now called.  There are plans for it to support the SNES/Hyperkin mouse, the Family Basic Famicom Keyboard (and hopefully USB mouse/keyboard), tape deck storage, possibly the Famicom Disk System, and several other things.  It will be intended to be modable/hackable, and will hopefully lead to more development and evolution by the community. There is no release date/plan at this time.
     
    Chris:  That's a great backstory and what the larger project is, is very exciting.  Let's take a look at the team.  You had a pretty stacked team on this project.  Antoine (Vectrex 28 / FG Soft) and Thomas (Zi / Bleep Bop Records) both of which have been on many projects with great success.  How did the three of you come together for UXO?  Was the game development process collaborative or was there a clear divide in tasks on the project?
    Justin: I approached Antione with the project, and he seemed interested.  He was well known for being able to pump out quick, efficient, and solid games, and pretty much took my ideas and ran with it.  Thomas was working on music for a few different homebrew projects and was looking for more work on the side.  He was very eager to join.  Everyone pretty much worked in their own silos, and it just kind of came together with occasional input/direction from me.  It was a great experience.
     
    Chris:  That came together nicely.  What about the theme to UXO?  Looking at what is shown in the game, It leans into military aspects, ones that would come with being tasked with mine detection and removal (also highlighted in the trailer for the game).  These themed elements worked great and added what was sorely lacking with Minesweeper.  How did these aspects become part of UXO?
    Justin: Mostly from my military background – no I was not in EOD, but the concept came pretty naturally, and was an easy way to let it be Minesweeper, without directly calling it Minesweeper.  It also let me and Eric come up with a fun little backstory to go along with the game.  Of course you could just make a port, but what fun would that have been?  I don’t know that many people really read into it much, but I hope they did.
     
    Chris: What about the development, what did it look like?  Was there a schedule of milestones and deadlines?  Were there challenges that you did not expect?  Any lessons learned during the process that you want to pass on to aspirating homebrew developers?
    Justin: There really weren’t any specific deadlines.  I kind just presented the ideas, would ask what was and wasn’t possible, and the programming came along.  Same kind of goes with the music.  I listened to what Thomas had, suggested some tweaks, and also gave some examples/descriptions on what I was looking for.  Rinse and repeat again, for what Eric put together.  I had a lot of ideas, but he really made the material shine.  There were really no big challenges that stick out in my mind, other than the logistics of making the LEs carts an ammo cans.  Drilling the holes for the mines, and finding the optimal locations for them.  Dealing with pain peeling/flaking, making 20 something cans look different/unique, but still cool.  That kind of stuff.  Other than that, was maybe making a few too many copies up front.
     
    Chris:  What about the physical aspect of the project?  I.e. boxes, manuals, shells, labels, PCBs, etc. How did you go about the sourcing of art and materials?  Similar to the above, were there challenges and lessons learned?
    Justin: I leaned pretty heavily on Eric for the sourcing of boxes, manuals, and labels.  He, again, did a great job on that front.  As for shells, I loved the shells that Beau from SoleGoose Productions was using, and decided to get some of those.  The PCBs I got from Second Dimension, as it was a simple NROM game/board, and they had outstanding prices.  The stuff to populate the boards (EPROMs, etc)  came from what was cheapest, but seemed quality on E-Bay.
     
    Chris:  One of the end products was a limited edition, which was something special.  CIB, letter, land mine technical manual, ID badge, USB on dog tags, charms candy, and a toy metal detector, all packed in a camo painted metal box.  How did you come up with the package idea?  It also seems like a ton of work.  Did you enjoy making these packages?
    Justin: Once again, it mostly came from my military background.  I thought it would really be fun to make up a little package to sort of play along with the plot/theme of the game.  It certainly was a lot of work, but was extremely fun, and I felt like it was delivering something that the homebrew community hadn’t seen before.  I am aware that I don’t produce the most advanced, or original games, but one thing a really pride myself on, is the uniqueness, quality and presentation of the LE (and still to some extent, the regular editions as well).
     
    Chris:  That is very true.  Your special editions have been unique and top quality.  You don’t really see special editions to this caliber anymore.  Why do you think that is?  Do you think there is still a market for them?
    Justin: I just think there isn’t a huge market for them anymore.  The effort and cost seem to outweigh the benefit in many instances (unless you are just doing it for the heck of it).  The collecting scene has changed a lot over the past few years.  There are now many more people buying homebrew, but fewer willing to shell out large amounts for them.  Making enough LEs to satisfy demand, that will sell at a price to justify them being made is very difficult.  It’s hard enough to make a game, let alone devote a lot of money and resources to make the release of it elaborate.  Also, these things tend to take up space, and it may not be desirable to have tons of elaborate LEs taking up valuable space in a collection.
     
    Chris:  So lets dive into a component of what's in the game.  And I don’t want to give too much away or give a how-to of how you access it, but there is a secret mini game within UXO. I am going to include a clip of the mini game in the article's video, an on rails side scrolling jumping game.  Did you know that a mini-game made its way into the final game?  Or did you and Antoine work on it together?
    Justin: I certainly was aware it made it into the game, and greatly encouraged it.  I can’t recall if it was my idea to put a hidden game in, but it was certainly Antione’s idea for the gameplay/design (which is pretty obvious from the scrolly message… haha).  The secret is able to be accessed by gameplay, but there are also a couple of interesting places the code can be found.  One has to do with the insurance letter included in the LE, and the other one can only be found by taking something from the release apart – which would likely ruin it.  That’s all I’ll say about that.  Also of interest, is that there is a mini game hidden in Freecell as well!
     
    Chris:  Stepping back to the present, UXO has been out for a while now.  Are you happy with the release?  Do you think it was successful?  Anything you would change about either the development, the game, or the release?
    Justin: Overall I’m happy with the release.  I think we had fun and succeeded in trying to make a Minesweeper that was a bit more than Minesweeper.  I feel it was generally successful in retrospect, for what it is, but I do wish I would have sold out of all of my stock.  That would be about all I would change – not making so many up front (which is one of the things that makes Kickstarter so appealing – you know almost exactly how much you have to make to supply the demand).
     
    Chris:  Sounds like UXO still available for purchase.  Which editions and where can someone order a copy?
    Justin: I have a box of regular edition copies sitting in my attic, that I suppose are available for purchase, but there isn’t a specific place they are listed for sale.  I guess if someone would like one, they could always reach me in Videogamesage (user name is @neodolphino), or e-mail me at neodolphino@hotmail.com.
     
    Chris:  Anything you want to leave the readers with before we close the interview?  Advice?  What homebrews are you looking towards?  Or what to expect from Neodolphino in the future?
    Justin: I guess just please keep supporting NES homebrew (heck, all homebrew for that matter)!  It’s a great community, filled with all sorts of ingenuity.  Every time you think the system has reached its limit, something new and exciting comes along.
    As for upcoming homebrew, I’m really looking forward to Full Quiet by the Retrotainment guys.  I also can’t wait to see the NES side of development on Orange Island by Ted Sterchi.  There is also a lot of buzz about internet support for the NES, which has been elusive for years, but finally seems like it may be within practical reach.
    As far as Neodolphino Productions, keep an eye out for NEoS, as well as some US localizations of Japanese homebrew games that have come out recently!
     

    Fg Soft
    Chris: Speaking with Justin, he had a lot of praise for you and your work.  Saying you produced solid and efficient games fast.  I can understand why he approached you with the UXO project.  What made you want to join the project and work with Justin?
    Antoine: I thought UXO would be a fun, smoothgoing small project. I knew Justin a bit already and I knew he was a good chap, so I ended up rolling with it. Getting a copy of Panic Restaurant as a reward might'e helped things a little, too 😄
     
    Chris: What was it like working with Justin?  And Thomas as well?  
    Antoine: Justin was pretty smooth to work with. While the records I would've had checked (our UXO private thread on the late nintendoage.com) are sadly not available anymore because of a certain someone I won't name, what I can remember is that Justin and Thomas were very fun to work with, and the atmosphere was very relaxed. I'm actually getting the same vibe with my current NES commission, Eyra the Crow Maiden, and a relaxed environment like the one I got in UXO is a plus for me when joining any NES dev project.


    Chris: Talking with Justin, I got the impression that the three of you divided the responsibilities and mostly worked independently.  Do you prefer to work like that or do you enjoy a more collaborative team project?
    Antoine: I do like having freedom to work by myself, but on a team project, collaboration is necessary. I'd like to especially thank our tester mattbep who went above and beyond when testing UXO! Having someone else test your game is the biggest plus of any group project IMO.
     
    Chris: Very true, collaboration is necessary even when responsibilities are divided.  In the larger context, lets look at the NES development scene.  From the outside looking in, out of all the aspects that it takes to develop and release a homebrew, it seems that the strongest community is for programming.  You can go on NESdev, VGS, or on the discord Brewery section and it mostly discussing and sharing programming tips, tricks, and questions.  
    Do you agree?  Does that community drive you to keep working and becoming a better programmer?  Do you lean on others for help figuring out a problem?
    Antoine: I think every programming community fits a certain niche of programming. VGS (formerly NintendoAge) I feel is mostly for people wanting to release games and wanting to learn 6502 (I'm looking at the Nerdy Nights in particular, which used to be hosted on Nintendoage.com), whereas the VGS Discord is more of a casual place for discussion amongst fellow NES devs, and NESdev being the main hub for the more technical side of the hobby, so each place I feel has a very specific purpose in the NES world. I do think the community as a whole is helpful to newcomers, and has been helpful to me in the past, even though I like to challenge myself to solve my coderelated problems by myself.
     
    Chris: You made a name for yourself doing many tech demos and made your way into full games.  What drove you to make NES games?
    Antoine: As a kid, I always had a fascination with retro gaming. The NES was my favourite console, but at first I never thought I'd make actual games for it. However, when I found a Commodore 64, through the builtin BASIC I found out that you could actually make games for those old machines, and that people were still making them! So the NES being my favourite console, I eventually did the Nerdy Nights and started making games for it 😄
     
    Chris: Very cool.  So you went with it and now you are making games.  What was the development of UXO like?  What tools did you use?
    Antoine: As I said before, development went pretty smoothly. I used the usual tools Notepad for the code, TileMolester for the graphics, and Famitone2 for Thomas's music.
     
    Chris: What about challenges, did UXO present new challenges for you?
    Antoine: I think the biggest challenge was figuring out the positions of the mines adjacent to a certain square. I tried calculating them in real time as you uncovered the squares, but I found out that it was much more efficient to precalculate them beforehand, which is what I ended up doing 🙂
     
    Chris: What about taking the controls from what would typically be a mouse for minesweeper, to a d-pad for UXO?  (BTW, I think you nailed it.  I never miss not having a mouse in UXO.  The movement is never slow or tedious and you are never not in control).  Was that something that came easy or did it take a lot of adjustment?
    Antoine: The controls came out great mostly thanks to mattbep, who seemed to be very wellversed in Minesweeper. He actually taught me a thing or two about the game, and that made me become muchbetter at it hehe.
     
    Chris: Let's take a look at graphics.  I am assuming you did the graphics for the game as well.  You have a certain style that you carry through many of your games.  What tools do you use and what was that development like?  
    Antoine: I did all of the graphics myself, in TileMolester, yes. Graphics is probably my favourite aspect of retro game development, so much so that I'm sometimes just doing art pieces for old computers such as the C64, Speccy, Amstrad, MSX, etc.
    My style is very much inspired from the games made for those old micros, and I often get that my games have an Amigaish or Spectrumish vibe, which I believe is very true. Being European helps in that regard, too...

    Chris: Diving deeper than what is front and center in the game, there is a secret mini-game within UXO.  Pretty well hidden.  Tell us about your thoughts behind the mini-game.
    Antoine: That was Justin's idea I believe. I think it's a fun little easter egg. The game itself is nothing special imo, but it has its charm. I liked making it.
     
    Chris: I am thinking you often put secrets in your games.  Is that true?  What makes you do that?
    Antoine: I do put easter eggs in my games, usually for cheating purposes, but it's also a good excuse to add a silly little scrolltext to the game, again going back to European microcomputer games and demos.
     
    Chris: So looking back on the project, are you happy with the end product?  Anything you would do differently now?
    Antoine: For the time I think it was pretty good. If I could go back to it, I'd update the graphics a notch since I've gotten better since (though to be fair a Minesweeper game does not really need very fancy graphics does it :P), and I'd also try adding a questionmark tile to the game (you can only add flags on the tiles).
     
    Chris: What about the catalogue of the rest of your games, what are you most proud of?
    Antoine: That's a very good question... I feel like every game I've released was a stepping stone to the next level. I don't think I have a favourite release, though I suspect Space Soviets would fit that once it's released as I have yet to release a full, largescale production.
     
    Chris: Anything you want to leave the readers with before we close the interview?  Advice?  What homebrews are you looking towards?  Or what to expect from Fg Soft in the future?
    Antoine: My words to anyone reading this are: Keep the NES alive! The homebrew scene is great and without passionate NES fans' support it wouldn't be where it is today. Stay awesome!!!
     
     

     
    Bleep Bop Records
    Chris: Looking at the past years, you have gone all in on NES chip tune music.  You have four NES music albums, music tracks on many games, and convention appearances.  Also you are always on the lookout for more projects.  What drew you to this style and medium of music production?  
    Thomas: First of all, please call me Tom. Or Admiral Tom. Whatever sounds the least formal whilst giving an air of playful reverence. Is this... are you printing this? Oh no. Okay ignore what I just said. Look, right from the jump I want you to know I never edit myself in an interview. Also, you've put on a few pounds. As a friend, I'm telling you this. And are you using whitening toothpaste or... okay. So, yes. I make chip tune music. Why? It's a long story of music practice, appreciation, and an interest in computer science. And it's a great mix of punk and classical. Everything is a mix of classical, I guess, except those prog-rock bastards. Ugh, right? Abhorrent.
     
    Chris: Okay, Tom it is.  How do you go about the composing and production of your music?  What tools do you use? Give us an example of your typical working day.
    Tom: I'm a Famitracker guy- using a Mac, so right off the bat things are needlessly complex. Running Parallels, Windows 10, I work with FT, and not the ghost version, which has some nice features, but once you have your shortcuts set it's tough to move to anything else. I really want Famistudio to work, but I'm having problems with the UI and am patiently waiting for clearer documentation.
    As far as workflow, sometimes it's playing songs on the piano and recording live or using LogicPro to capture an idea- then working out the rough song in FT. Then there's an instrument pass, a clearer definition of intro/verse/sub-chorus/verse/sub-chorus/chorus/bridge/verse/chorus-outro (that part takes the longest). Sometimes I get stuck, hell, a lot of the time I get stuck, so I return to a different medium and mess around with chords or melodies, or move to a different song and work on the minute details like mastering, reverb, effects, transitions, etc.
     
    Chris: Do you find the restrictions for music on the NES to be stifling or to be empowering for your creativity?
    Tom: A little of both- it's annoying to want a second line to fill in a little of the chord for the melody and that runs over the atmospheric arpeggio or runs- but at the same time you can drive yourself mad with arranging when there are no restrictions.
     
    Chris: I can agree with that.  There is a fine balance of freedom and restrictions in great creativity.  Looking at how to begin composing, I recall an interview with Rob Bryant on the NES Assembly line, where he stated sometimes he just picks a random note to start the music with, and goes with that for his creative process.  As an outsider, that was a little shocking.  Do you have some of your own tricks to get the ball moving creatively wise?
    Tom: That is categorically insane. Everyone knows you smash down all the keys on a piano and then listen... hear it? The key, even the melody, it's right there. And, like a good woodcarver, you chip away the notes you don't need and then you're left with a song. I do, however, try not to settle into Cmaj or Amin for every song and try to make the conscious effort to explore other keys and modes. If you get stuck, music theory always helps- it's a functional tool that can assist in exploring interesting emotional turns in a song. Keep a tape recorder/phone close when you're playing, you never know when inspiration strikes.
     
    Chris: Hahah, I hear it now.  Let's look closer at the topic at hand, how did you approach UXO as a project?  Where did you look for inspiration or generally what was the process like for this particular project?
    Tom: I think I assumed I was on the project and told whats-his-face as much. You know, the dolphin kid. I'd give you my specific notes but I don't think I'm allowed on the old gaming site. I worked together on a few other projects with Vex and Justin and this time they wanted to port the windows game suite - starting with minesweeper. The original didn't have a soundtrack and Justin suggested a few different feels- I think that's all I got. Nothing specific, just different sounds like NES Tetris.
     
    Chris: So you made your way on to the team and now it is complete and released for several years.  How did you feel about the project overall?  Was the development smooth or were their challenges?
    Tom: There was nothing atypical about the project. Most of these are small groups who trust each other to work in their specific departments. I don't mind notes and made a few changes as we progressed. I knew they were planning for some palette options so I tried to do the same thing with the music (sand, ice, dark). I think after I turned in intro, 3 songs, and mission accomplished, Justin asked for a chill track. I was also told my "chill" was not chill. What can I say, it's tough to go under 180BMP!
     
    Chris: Anything you would do differently looking back now?
    Tom: I just listened to it and want to change so much. The intro should have drops at the end of some of those phrases and I'm not happy about the drum mix. I LOVE the ice and chill track- and am happy to hear I took instruments and styles from all the levels and incorporated them into the last track "mission accomplished."
     
    Chris: Stepping away from UXO to look at your larger work, do you feel there are any aspects to your music that only you do that might be called your signature?
    Tom: I think each album I have a through-line or vibe- there's a lot of change from (my second album) Fie to (unreleased) the Quiet Album, in tone, complexity, length. In Four, I only used the four duty cycles as instruments and the rest is effects and volume control stuff. I like the grittiness of that album but still love the pop vibe of Fie. Thornby turned out to be an entire album where songs rolled into each other (I hope) seamlessly.
     
    Chris: Someone once made a comment about your series of work that really stood out.  They said that you have released your chiptune albums in reverse order, starting with your latest work and then publishing your earlier work.  Is this true? What was the reasoning behind that decision and how do you feel this presents you as an artist to your audience?
    Tom: I think that's right. It took a second to figure out how to get these things on carts, but with the help of the immortal Khan Games ( @KHAN Games ) and production support from a whole bunch of folks, from INL ( @infiniteneslives ) to Sole Goose ( @SoleGoose ) and Memblers ( @Memblers ), I've gotten my music on carts out there. The decision was functional, as Silicon Statue was my fifth album but first on cartridge. I was very invested in Silicon Statue so it made sense for me to keep pushing and use it as the experiment to get it to cartridge.
     
    Chris: Which of your works are you most proud of?
    Tom: That's rough. It depends on so much, and changes. There's a year where I didn't listen to Thornby and then one night I was doing mindless work and put it on and loved it!
     
    Chris: Taking a look at projects that you have announced or that fans hope will get a release, can you tell us more about the development of the compilation album?  What about plans to release Fie and Level Zero on cartridge?
    Tom: The compilation album now has a name! "Retro Artists of the Future, Vol 1." I think the virus messed up some of the deadlines, but we're slowly moving forward. I recruited 14-16 able-bodied chiptune musicians and the amazing Tyler Barnes to program the cart. Right now we have 4-5 songs and I'm chasing down folks to get a definitive commitment. No matter the length, it's about time Bleep Bop Records produced songs more than just me!
    This summer I transcribed Fie from PPMCK to FamiTracker- which was sorta a nightmare but also fun, and am in NESST right now trying to make the album cover into its cool on-screen version. Look for Fie (on cart) in the fall.
     
    Chris: Is there another artist in the homebrew scene that you admire their work?  Or an up and coming artist that you are paying attention to?
    Tom: Some of the folks that worked on the comp album were so creative and really pulled a meaty sound out of the chipset - Veridian, MiniMacro Sound, Raftonaut ( @Raftronaut ), and Tyler Barnes ( @TylerBarnes ) (who goes by Tyler Barnes). Follow em on Twitter!
     
    Chris: What about any dream projects you hope that you get to work on?
    Tom: Anything from Khan Games ( @KHAN Games ). I like working with first timers, as I do some Beta testing as well, and don't mind a longer timetable. I'm waiting on some MegaCat projects as well!
     
    Chris: Anything you want to leave the readers with before we close the interview?  Advice?  What homebrews are you looking towards?  Or what to expect from Bleep Bop Records in the future?
    Tom: Create. You literally have one job on this planet- create. Art, relationships, hope, whatever. Create. Also, it's okay to say screw it, I'm going to try and play a game or two- there's more than just the music!
     
    There you have it UXO.  Its origins, development, and more.  Thanks for tuning in and see you for the next episode.  
  11. Deadeye

    002 Nebs 'n Debs

    By Deadeye,


    Homebrew
    Homebrews in Focus 002 - Nebs ‘n Debs
    Platforming games, oh my!  In this episode, how this platforming homebrew made a big dash and won the praise of many.
    CIB available here: https://shop.dullahansoft.com/products/nebs
    ROM available here: https://dullahan-software.itch.io/nebs-n-debs

    [Limited Edition, Clear Cart in NES Front Loader]
     
    Contents:
    1. Intro
    2. Origins
    3. Nebs 'n Debs the game
    4. Development
    5. Marketing
    6. Review
    7. Interviews
    8. Closing
     

    [Art from manual]
     
    1. Intro
    Our first heavy hitter covered on Homebrews in Focus, Nebs ‘n Debs.  A side scrolling platformer akin to Super Mario Bros or Super Mario Land.  Albeit with a unique action technique and an addictive pace.  Like so many other NES games, the background and story is within the manual.  Well, what does it say?  I’ll save you from breaking the manual spine and give you a quick rundown so we can take a deeper dive into the development and marketing that made this homebrew such a success.
     

    [Art from manual]
     
    The story opens, while on your journey back home, you crash land your spaceship and emerge from wreckage with a crystal hungry octopus, named Nebs, attached to your head.  In order to get home, you will need to find ship parts in this unknown landscape.  However, that octopus lives off a depleting reserve of crystals and now your lives are linked together.  Luckily for you, Nebs embodies a special ability at your disposal, the air-dash, which allows you to better navigate this foreign and unknown planet.  You will need this to traverse the landscape searching for crystals.  The crystals are not plentiful, but available, and you will be watching the counter tick down as Nebs eats your reserve of crystals, with you worrying the entire time if you are going to stay alive.  If the counter reaches zero, you die.  Horizontal air-dash your way through the levels, killing enemies, avoiding pits, and breaking through barriers, while keeping Nebs fed.  Once you get all the ship parts, you are home free.  
    It is not an easy game, far from it, but at the end you will be greeted with a message.  “Well Done.  You escaped too easily” Too easily??  That’s right, the game will loop to an optional hard mode, a la Super Mario Land, and you will now face an even greater difficulty, all to get the true ending, the true escape sans too easily.  In the hard mode, there will be no extra life pickups and everything will be faster, including the pace at which your crystal stockpile is depleting.
    Now that we got the basis of the game covered, how did the project get to this final product that we can play?  Let's take a step back and look into the origin of the game and how it evolved.

    [Art from manual]
     
    2. Origins
    |
    [Left - Nebs 'n Debs Prequel, Right - Nebs 'n Debs]
     
    Before we dive right in we should address that Nebs ‘n Debs wasn’t always the same game that was commercially released.  It started out as a NESdev 2016 competition entry, which was vastly different.  I don’t want to sway you into thinking one was a point n’ click and the other was a platformer, for realms of differences.  The competition entry is the same genre, has a dashing mechanic, and also has the same main characters.  However, I would wager you can play both versions and walk away saying that there was a fundamental shift in the game design approach going from the first game to the second one.  The developer, Dullhan Soft, titled the NESdev entry as "Nebs ‘n Debs Prequel", which makes a clean break from the game that evolved from the competition.  To make things easier going forward I’ll refer to Neb’s n’ Debs Prequel as “Prequel” or “the prequel” and the commercial sequel as “Nebs ‘n Debs” or “the commercial release”.  
    In some ways the prequel is a stripped down version of Nebs ‘n Debs.  On the surface, the graphics and mechanics are simplified, using stacked uniform blocks and a less robust dashing ability.  With the dash in the prequel feeling like an item you are trying to conserve rather than the super ability that is apparent in Nebs ‘n Debs. Going beyond what’s at the surface, the game play is more casual, similar to picking up some coins and making it to the end. This evolved into a fast paced survivor game with the commercial release.  
    Now, let's talk a bit about the dashing ability before we get ahead of ourselves too much, and you are left wondering why I am making this out to be the be all end all of the game.
    I think a way we can bridge this is by juxtaposing it to something you may be familiar with already.  Mario's jump.  As the jump is the main ability to Mario, the dash is to Debs.  Instead of jumping on your enemies, you need to dash through them.  When you reach a distance too great to jump past, you need to dash in the air extending your jump’s reach.  And when you reach a barrier that is impassable, you need to break through it with your dash, destroying certain blocks in the process.  The comparison is to Mario’s jump rather than Mario’s fire or leaf power up because, well, it is not a power up for Debs, but rather your base ability and it becomes so integral to navigating the landscape in the game properly.  In this regard, I think it is fair to compare the dash from Nebs n’ Debs to the jump from Super Mario Bros. in this way because the dash feature is an integral part in the design of the entire game.  
    Going past the base dash ability, there are upgrades to pick up that don't give you new abilities, but rather they increase the use of the dash.  For the prequel, this translates to how many dashes you get before a recharge period, and for the commercial game, it extends the distance of your dash.  In the commercial game, there are additional things to do with the dash and we will get into that in the next section, Nebs 'n Debs the game.  Let's continue back on topic and round out Origins.
    |
    [Left - Super Mario Land, Right - Nebs 'n Debs]
    The majority of graphics and mechanics in the prequel were fine tuned, expanded upon, or evolved in the commercial game, but playing this stripped down version allows us to see the game in a more simplified manner.  The influences that shine through are not of Super Mario Bros., but of the Super Mario Land series.  Mainly Super Mario Land and Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3.  The landscape is blocky, uniform, and a little sparse, but the purpose is clear.  Go to the end and collect crystals along the way.  To accomplish this, you will need to platform using a mix of jumping and dashing.  Going back to the point about the Mario Land series being an influence for a moment, the dash mechanic is like the Bull Wario power up combined with Jet Wario power up from Wario Land.  It accomplishes both in one mechanic.  It is also not a power up, but your base skill as we discussed.  Reading the manual from the commercial game, you learn this ability is given to you through Nebs, that octopus attached to your head.  You end the level by jumping to a large crystal hovering in the sky, kind of like jumping on the pole in SMB1 or getting to the door in Super Mario Land.
    | |
    [Left to Right - Bull Wario, Jet Wario]
     
    [Nebs dashing]
    With the foundation of origins and influences covered, let's move on to discuss the commercial release more in depth.
     
    3. Nebs ‘n Debs the game
    Production - Dullahan Software Programming - Chris Cacciatore @Dullahan Software Pixel Artist - Anders Gullmarsvik Artist - Kaela Camille Agustin Music - Richard ‘Kulor’ Armijo Packaging Design - Heather Klinger Testing - Johan Vinet, Andrew Parks, Andrew Crowell, Tony Fraguero Released 2018 / 2019 as a:
    Digital ROM download (For Sale) Limited edition (LE) complete in box copy with a poster* Regular edition (RE) complete in box copy (For Sale NA / International)
    *The LE had a clear cart and the RE had a grey cart.  

    [Nebs n’ Debs Title Screen]

    Riding off the success of the prequel, which won second place in the NESdev competition, Nebs 'n Debs really expanded in both mechanics and levels.  Looking at the levels, Nebs ‘n Debs spans across 12 levels split into 4 regions.  The levels are quick, so you may be inclined to call it a short game.  However each level is extremely well polished, minus some nit picks that we will cover in the review section, and the challenge is quite high.  There are no passwords, continues, or saves, so this is meant to be a one sitting game, so the length and difficulty is on par with that.  You will play it many times before you will master the game’s mechanics to ultimately finish the game.  I’ll wager you will return to it many times as the game is fun and addictive.  Beyond that, there is a hard mode to the game that ups the difficulty quite a lot.  It leaves little room for mistakes and because of that, I’d wager only the truly dedicated will complete the hard mode.  Not enough?  Dullahan Soft released a Kaizo level, which is just pure evil in difficulty and design.  

    [Regions, from Manual]
     
    Nebs ‘n Debs’ levels are divided into 4 distinct regions.  Mountains, Mines, Forest, and Swamp.  Mixed in between the regions are “Boss” levels of sorts.  A similar tactic as how Super Mario Land bookends worlds with a SHUMP level to break up the game play.  In Nebs ‘n Debs, the boss level’s goal is to race the boss to the end of the level and dash through them before they go off screen, to get the ship part that they are holding, otherwise they take off with the precious part you need so badly.  
     
    [Left - Level example, Right - Boss example]

    Nebs ‘n Debs levels are of the platformer nature with a mix of pickups, called Artifacts, obstacles to get past, and enemies, called creatures, you must dash through, avoid, or manipulate in order to progress in the stage.  
       
    [Artifacts, Creatures, and Obstacles, from Manual]
     
    These mix of elements are within the regular levels as well as the boss levels.  The goal of regular levels is to pick up the crystals, to keep Nebs’ reserve up, surpass the obstacles, and make it to the end by dashing through a turnstile sign (similar to how Sonic levels end).  
    In the Prequel, you had a bank of dashes with a recharge period.  With the commercial game you have one dash that recharges when you touch the ground.  Those obstacles and creatures, mentioned above, can be taken advantage of or manipulated by the Dash, which is different from how the Prequel handled them. If you dash through an enemy or, as an example, a boulder you get an additional dash before you must touch the ground and recharge.  This sets up a game design where you must time your movement against creatures or objects so you can make use of multiple dashes to span great distances.  The dash is engaged by holding B and can be disengaged early by letting go of B.  There are times when you must make use of this to land on a single block that you would have surpassed with a full dash.  Furthermore there are three additional modifiers to the dash.  There are two Dash Potion upgrades that extend the length of Debs’ dash, a Dash Gem that makes Debs’ go into a timed berserk mode of unlimited dashing for a short time, and a Dash “Velocity” mechanic.  
      
    [Left and Middle- Dashing through blocks, Right - Dash Velocity]

    The Dash Velocity is engaged by performing a dash while in vertical motion.  The dash interrupts the vertical motion being performed and continues after the dash is complete.  The Dash Velocity is performed mostly on Trampoline Plants.  Jumping on this creature shoots you in the air.  If you perform a dash, the vertical motion is paused while you dash horizontal.  After the dash is completed, the vertical motion is continued.  This allows Debs to reach areas she normally wouldn’t be able to.  
    All in all it is very impressive that Dullahan Soft found a way to build a world around the game’s mechanics so effectively.  Besides the level design praises, there are no real throw away collectibles, because crystals are tied to your life in a depleting nature.  So the crystals become the level “timer”, doing away with how clocks for levels can feel arbitrary at times.  The speed aspect of the game is reinforced by the quick dash mechanic.  Each level makes use of the dash in progress steps, ramping up the difficulty as you advance in levels.  The game is intuitive all along the way, except for the “dash velocity”, which may require reading the manual or watching a video.  Let’s talk about the game’s development some more.     

    [Art from manual]
     
    4. Development
    Going back a bit to the regions we talked about above, the levels are quite detailed.  The graphic artist, Anders, did a great job, and there were many transformations over the development phase.  Some of that was a result of level layout revisions, going from more branching paths to more linear ones.  Other changes seem like they may be for color conservation (either due to technical limits or aesthetic reasons).  On the other extreme, an entirely different look was also tested, more of a Super Mario World vibe, with stacked platforms and turtle-like enemies on them.
       
    [Graphic development, Source: Dullahan Twitter]

    We can also get a glimpse at the development of the creatures, obstacles, and artifacts, which were more fine tuned throughout development rather than a redo / revamp compared to the level graphics.  
       
    [Sprite development, Source: Dullahan Twitter]
     
    Dullahan Soft was quite open about the game’s development and we got to see some things that many other projects haven’t been so public about.  Below is a pie chart that the developer prepared to figure out the memory allocation space they had to work with on the NROM board.  This data is actually from the prequel, but you can see how one would need to plan ahead to meet the data caps form graphics (CHR) and program data (PRG). 

    [Top - CHR memory, Bottom - PRG memory, from Dullahan]
     
    These part charts are directly related to the mapper chose of the game, NROM mapper.  I don’t think I need to take a deep dive in NES mappers, but a short summary would be that NES games came on a multitude of different cartridge hardware.  Some boards had additional memory, rewritable memory (as opposed to read only memory), and or memory banking, along with other features (like HUDs and diagonal scrolling).  These mapper advances, along with talented programming, was an ingenious way to extend or enhance what was possible on the base hardware of the console.  
    Nebs ‘n Debs used the base board that had no additional features on it, which is the no mapper board (NROM).  NROM was used for many of the original NES games (Super Mario Bros., Balloon Fight, Donkey Kong).  Compared to the enhanced mappers with the memory management controller (MMC), as in the MMC3 (Super Mario Bros. 3) or MMC5 (Castlevania III Dracula’s Curse),  NROM is very limiting, but many current homebrew developers see this as a challenge they want to strive to tackle.  Morph Cat, homebrew developer that released Micro Mages, used NROM as well and put together a great explanation video of NROM challenges and how they overcame the memory limitations on Micro Mages.  
    Dullahan Soft talks a bit about those challenges of working on NROM as they developed the commercial game in the interview portion below.  Needless to say, they kept hitting the limits and needed to optimize or make cuts along the way, saying it was a battle to fit the game in NROM, but that they would work on NROM again.
     
    5. Marketing
    There is another aspect of the project that, all though it is not game creation related, it is a vital portion of the success of any game.  That is the marketing.  It should never be overlooked, as you can have a great game, but if very few know about it, the success would be very hampered not drawing a player market.  Given this, the question being begged to be asked is, does marketing start when you are ready to sell a product or before?  
    I believe in most cases, in very successful products, it starts before.  Taking a look at Super Mario Bros. 3, the marketing campaign was massive including television ads, magazine articles, and a frickin' movie tie with The Wizard.  Is this a fair comparison? No, as this was already an established series by a first party company, but looking at the success (in sales) of SMB3, you would have a hard time arguing that marketing didn’t play into it being massively desired at the time.  Looking at other NES games that were at an equal tier of quality gaming, but did not invest in marketing, did not do so well in sales.  The same can be said for homebrews as well.  There are plenty of homebrew games that are awesome, but are rarely talked about as they were released too quietly and have not established a player base as a result.   
    Going back to Nebs ‘n Debs, if you look back at the kickstarter campaign, it turned out to be very successful.  The campaign closed with almost 500 backers and was funded in a very short amount of time.  There are many factors that may have contributed to its success.  The game was almost complete, fulfillment was scheduled for a short time after, tiers were on par or lower in cost than the current going rate, digital ROM was an available tier, art work was topnotch, and of course, the prequel was well received, any or all of these could have been the factors to its success.

    [Nebs 'n Debs Kickstarter, source: Kickstarter]
     
    The kickstarter platform does allow for a certain push to back a project, with climbing numbers, a deadline, unlocking tiers, and searchable marketplace, and I don’t want to discount that, but I think that is a different conversation.  I think the conversation to be had are about two other aspects that I believe were the driving force; using GIFs, in place of static images, and using long term pre-kickstarter marketing.  

    [Early Development, Source: Dullahan Twitter]

    Its marketing in a sense started before the kickstarter and even before the NESdev competition.  Anytime a developer posts about a game they are working on, it is a form of marketing, even if that is not their foremost  intention.  By posting about development, sharing images, or even talking about the game, a seed is planted in the minds of the viewer/ reader.  If you really scroll way back in Dullahan’s twitter, you can see the beginnings of where it started for the project.  The developer was very public about the game’s development, even when not many people were paying attention, and they kept at it, while using animated GIFs for almost every post.  This is important for a game that at its foundation is its dash mechanic and its speed, the only sure fire way to capture that, in a way to communicate in a bit size manner, is for the media to be animated.  This really translated what Nebs ‘n Debs was about, even when it didn’t have much graphics, but oh my that dash!  It was very captivating and kept people interested in the project and growing in followers the entire time.  
     
    6. Review

    [Art from manual]
       
    Needless to say, I am a big fan of this homebrew. I think it is fair to say this was reflective in various aspects of the conversation while we discussed origins, game play, and development.  You could see where I would land before we got here.  
    The development team got so many things right for this homebrew.  Nebs ‘n Debs has a clear foundation on which the entire design was built around.  When we get into the interview portion, Dullahan touches upon this aspect, noting that success is partially owed to good research.  Adding, that they spent time looking at other highly praised platformers, analyzed their game physics and mechanics, in order to deem what made them so good and highly acclaimed.  In the end, the team produced a game that is fun, addictive, and doesn’t overstay its welcome with extra filler.  There is a fine balancing act to make something that has just the right amount of the experience, not having fluff that just draws it out until you never want to return to it.  The fast paced and challenging aspect that Nebs ‘n Debs brings to the table, will keep you coming back again and again. 
    Looking a bit more, the development team did things that may seem subtle, but required a lot of thought and good execution. The title screen is playable, enemy sprites are small, but have expressive animations, collectibles were given purpose, and color palette various throughout the game, to name a few.  We spoke about the dash many times, but never really expanded on what made it so good.  The simple answer is it is fun to use.  The deeper answer of why that is, is more complex and hopefully I don't lose you along the way.  It has a lot to do with making a complex dash seem simple and easy to digest.  I say it in this manner because there are a lot of things happening during the dash action, that if you sit down and break it apart, it is rather impressive.  So lets take a deeper look at it.

    [Dash Sequence]

    The dash, is actually a sequence of events that are divided up with markers giving sensory information to the player.  This is impressive and important because it helps the player receive feedback along the way in real time rather than a single event in retrospect.  Overall, in my opinion, this method provides a pseudo-tactile feel due to these markers and what they communicate.  The best way I think to discuss this is to split up what the markers are in the sequence followed by what those markers are communicating to the player.
    Markers (steps in the dash):  Communicating (marker feedback): As Debs performs her dash, the screen subtly shakes vertically. The game environment is feeling the effects of the dash with the vertical shake. A black and white flash animation occurs on the protagonist. The character has received the command with the flash animation. A sound effect is played as you dash through an enemy or object.  You receive auditory feedback as you complete the dash. 
    These three markers, and their feedback communication, divide up the sequence for your brain to analyze the process in steps while giving the player visual and auditory information before moving on to the next marker.  A very subtle, but also very effective process.
    An alternative approach to this dash sequence, could have been a visual wind effect and enemies flashing as they die, lacking markers and intermediate steps along the process.  This way would be much more condensed, which is harder to mentally split up in real time.  The player would most likely take the event as one whole piece, to be analyzed at the end retroactively.  In my opinion, this alternative approach would not be as effective in how good the dash mechanic would feel for the player.  When so much of the game is about the dash, getting this feeling just right, can not be understated.
    Depending who you are, the dash sequence approach with the markers and feedback communication, may seem minimalist compared to a big explosion, or HD rumble, but those are crutches in my opinion, to a well thought out feedback design.  The big explosion or HD rumble, will lose their impact to the player from sensory overload when they are continually used, thus losing their effectiveness in the process.  There is a place for them, but they are not replacements.   

    [Left - Development graphics, Right - Final (Screen capture)]
    Taking a look at the graphics, I did like some of the development graphics a lot on their own, not taking into consideration the game as a whole.  They had more colors and branching paths, but the changes to the final version did make a more unified game and overall it was the right decision when taking the entire experience in.  That foresight to not isolate aspects of the game is what will improve the entire experience.  The regions are more unique from each other by having a restricted color palette to differentiate them from each other.  Reducing branching paths also went with the flow and speed of the game better.
    There were additional graphic items that I didn’t touch upon in the conversation about the game, regarding the level start transition screen and the character death animation.  The transition screen between levels was a nice touch.  It gives you a window to look ahead to the next level, a picture of the character, and remaining lives.

    [Transition screen]

    These screens as an experience, give the player a moment to breathe and a glimpse of what environment is next.  Also they display the amount of lives left with a large character sprite.  Another nice touch in the game is the character death animation, with its oh no! look.  That animation ties well to the actual act of when a death occurs, which is almost always due to a player's mistake.  That oh no! animation is Debs jumping in the air with her hands and feet out, accentuating “my mistake” with its over the top animation.  The music tone plays into this act great as well.  

    [Death example]
    I wish I had music training to really dive into the music and analyze it, but I lack that training.  However, as a layperson, the music is excellent.  It is upbeat, flows well, and I don't get tired of it.  There is not a ton of tracks, but enough to match the length and varied regions of the game.  The fading to transitions are done well.  I never get a jarring effect when the level ends or from looping a music track.  All and all I have positive things to say about the music.  Most importantly to me, the tempo matches the game play very well.  Kulor, has tracks up on his site to listen to.  Check them out here.
    As far as negatives to say, I only have a few.  They are more nitpicks than anything else, some hiccups or missteps if you will.  As good as the dash is, the last power up, with the longest length of dash, gets unwieldy.  The environment is not an exact fit for the longest dash length.  You may often blow past your target because of that.  Which makes single block landings even harder, which is counter-intuitive to a power up.  Compounding this predicament, if you die, you lose all the power ups and are now starting with the shortest dash.  It can be better to not upgrade to the last dash length at times due to this.  The areas in which this dash length is critical are not all the time, mostly it is critical at the last stretch of the game.  Going back to the topic of single blocks, adjusting your position on them can be deadly, as single taps can either not move you or send Debs off like a rocket.  Basically, try not to adjust Nebs on single blocks.
    There can be dead-ends in the game as well.  Like in Super Mario Bros, there are areas where you can get above the top row of the blocks and skip portions of levels.  In a couple areas this tactic will end up with Debs being trapped and you waiting out the clock for her to lose a life.  Luckily this only occurs in a couple of spots.  A similar condition can happen at the boss levels.  If the boss gets off the screen before you dash through them, you will need to wait out the clock instead of a death automatically happening.      
    Overall these nitpicks are small and easily overshadowed by the other and more impressive aspects of the game.  To me Nebs n’ Debs is in the top section of best games on the NES.  With the origins, game play, and my opinions out of the way, it is a good time to talk with the development team.  What are things to clue us into how they got from concept to completion, what tools did they use, and what problems did they encounter along the way.
     

    [Art from manual]
     
    7. Interviews

    Developer / Programmer - Chris Cacciatore
    Before we get into Nebs ‘n Debs and its development, I was wondering about the origins of Dullahan Soft.  If I recall correctly, you are a programmer by trade, and began working on projects in the homebrew scene with graphics, is that correct?  What was your drive to get involved in pixel graphics and then development?

    Yes, on both counts. A few years before I started Nebs ‘n Debs I decided to pixel a piece daily in order to improve my pixeling. There is a community of pixel artists on Twitter called Pixel Dailies where—you guessed it they do daily art! Well, specifically a theme is tweeted out and then everyone has a day to reply-tweet their work. I met a number of people through Pixel Dailies. Such as Anders Gullmarsvik who went on to pixel most of the art for Nebs ‘n Debs and Mr. Sole Goose of Sole Goose Productions.

    At some point Beau of Sole Goose Productions sent me a message about the possibility of doing pixel art for a NES game. The game he was working on was a Robotron-like called Spookotron. In the end I signed on to do the sprite work for Spookotron as well as other art for him.  

    As for development that kind of happened concurrently to my pixeling work. In 2014 my wife and I lost a baby and took a couple months off from work and pretty much life in general. During that time so as to distract myself I completed a couple long-put-off projects including finally finishing the Nerdy Nights tutorials.
     
       
    [Pixel Dailies, Source: Dullahan Twitter]
     

    [Spook-o-tron, Source: Sole Goose Productions]
    Sorry to hear about your loss.  I am glad you found outlets that were meaningful to you though.  
    Can you expand on the Pixel Dailies? Just like almost everything in life, the best way to improve is practice and more practice.  Were your improvements noticeable to you during the act of pixel or only when you looked back at all your pieces in retrospect? 
     
    Yes, I noticed improvement during the process and can see it now too. Beau from Sole Goose I think once called my style of art as a kind of Gameboy-color/NES cross-over. I can definitely see what he meant.  I like strong dark outlines on sprites and toy-like shapes. I think the best advice I ever read about low-resolution pixel art was to study physical toys. Generally with toys someone has already distilled the import and necessary features of the object that make it that object; be it a toy car, train, or action figure.

    When you have a limited number of pixels to convey meaning to the viewer you are in the same business.
     
     
    Going back to your development that you were doing concurrently, were there stepping stones before you began working on your own projects?  Or were you always working on your project privately?
     
    After I completed Nerdy Nights, I finally had an idea on what developing a NES game might
    look like. I have been making games or more specifically bad games for awhile. In the late 90’s and early 00’s I learned how to program from reading books. I started with C For Dummies of all things and moved on to game programming books like Tricks Of The Window Programming Gurus and Programming Role Playing Games with DirectX. Basically whatever I could find in the small game programming section of the local Borders book store.

    I stopped programming for a couple years when I was in college studying other subjects, but of course came back to it when I went back for a Computer Science degree. You kind of have to program then…
    Around that time I also started participating in game jams. Again making bad games. My games were often retro-inspired, but I was always frustrated that they were not the real thing. So it was natural that I eventually tried to make the real thing.
     
    It is interesting how people put aspects of life on hold and then pick them back up later in life.  I too had C For Dummies and later took a required programming course in C++ in college.  I ultimately left that behind me for now (still keep it on my list to continue though), but you picked it back up and are releasing games. 
    Going from retro-inspired to the real thing, did you have any projects or developers that inspired you to make that transition?
    Sivak Games’ Battle Kid 2 and Morphcat’s Super
     
    [Left - Battle Kid 2, Right - Super Bat Puncher, Source: RetroUSB / RGCD]
     
    Though the expansiveness of the two games are different, the worlds in both really draw the player in, I can see why they are inspiring.  Why were they important to you?
     
    Battle Kid 2 was the first physical homebrew I purchased. I played it and knew that I had to try making a NES game myself. Morphcat’s Super Bat Puncher like their hit Micro Mages feels like a modern game, but is still a NES game. They are succeeding at what so many retro-inspired games attempt, and yet they are actually using the real hardware.

    Morphcat is the studio to beat when it comes to great NES games. Dullahan Software will do just that.
     
     So let's look at Nebs ‘n Debs,  I think many people may look at it / play it and have Super Mario Bros. come to mind, as it was a defining moment for platforming video games that is associated with many platformers going forward.  However, I am going to take a stab that Nebs ‘n Debs was more influenced by Super Mario Land and Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3.  As an example, the air-dash mechanic seems to be a hybrid between the Bull Wario and Jet Wario power ups (from Wario Land).  Also the 12 levels with the following hardmode (from Super Mario Land).  Are those influences fair to say?  Can you explain the influences of Nebs ‘n Debs? 
     
    Good guesses! I was in fact playing through Wario Land 4 while making Nebs ‘n Debs. As for Super Mario Land that was a favorite of mine as a kid and likely influenced me. Of course, Super Mario Bros as you already mentioned, but also Mega Man, and Ducktails. I studied all the mechanics documents I could find for Mario and Mega Man on ROM hacking and speed running sites in order to figure out what made those characters so fun to control. Ducktails was more of an aesthetic influence.

    That is a great approach, as those games all have great mechanics.
    Let’s go back further, Nebs ‘n Debs Prequel, from the 2016 NESdev Competition, is a very different game.  The level design is scaled back, the physics have less friction, crystals are not tied to Nebs, and the dash mechanic worked differently.  How did this project start and develop?
     
    I knew I wanted a small scale project so as to increase the odds of my finishing it. On top of that I knew I wanted to make a platformer since that is what the NES does best. Given those requirements I went about building a simple 1-way single scroll platforming game engine. A lot of my early work was on making the asset pipeline (the way you jam in graphics, sound, and level data) as powerful as possible. I knew being able to swap or change assets easily would result in a better game.

    At some point I decided that a horizontal dash would be the primary game-play mechanic. The
    protagonists Debs and Nebs didn’t come along until later though.  I had this pixel art piece I made for my daughter that had the alphabet and under each letter a kid with an animal on their head. The name of the corresponding animal started with a letter above it. I thought to have one of these kids be the protagonist, but which animal would bestow the ability to dash? For some reason “S” for squid-kid made the most sense to me. The squid morphed into an octopus over time. The mollusk always had an attitude though.  
     
    The later stages of development were mainly me scouring the ROM for optimizations so I could free bytes and make more space for the awesome scores kulor had composed.
     
    [Chris' Alphabet, Source: Dullahan Twitter]

    [Early sprites, Source: Dullahan Twitter]
     
    What about how you end the stages going from the large crystal, like the pole for Super Mario Bros to a sign post, like Sonic?
     
    I like how Super Mario Bros has you end the level with a final challenge. A jump that depending on how well you did awarded you points. It reinforces the primary game-play mechanic—jumping! So with Nebs ‘n Debs I wanted you to end the level by dashing. Unfortunately, I never figured out a good way for the player to demonstrate their dashing skill while finishing the level like Super Mario Bros, so I settled on having the player dash and make a sign spin. This ended up feeling pretty good at the end of a level I think.  

    We did try a couple other ways of ending levels. I flirted with the idea of gambling slots like at the end of Super Mario Bros 2 and we also tried just having the player walk off the screen, but that was anticlimactic. I think you can still see some mocks of those 2 efforts on my Twitter somewhere.
     
    That was a smart move, it does reinforce the speed aspect of the game.  How did it feel for the project to be so well received during the NESdev Competition?
    Awesome! Our showing at the NESDev Competition was motivational and I would not have finished Nebs ‘n Debs otherwise.
     
    That was a tough year, the competition was fierce with many strong entries.  You finished in second place (very close to the first place score) and went forward with the commercial game.  How did the transition go from prequel to commercial game?  Did you always have that break in mind or did that happen during the prequel development process?
    I knew I had to bring more people on to the project. There was just too much to get done and I didn’t want to be working on the game for the next 5 years. After the prequel was finished, I lucked out and found great collaborators. So, no I didn’t have a particular break in mind.
     

    Let’s bridge the two projects by taking a look at the level graphics, there were many theme changes, at one point looking closer to Super Mario World.  What was the driver for the changes and did they have an influence on the game along the way?  By the way, the graphics ended up looking so good in the final product. 

    Thanks! I think Anders did a great job with the pixel art. His art is unique and has this lushness that almost makes it seem like art from a later-gen console rather than the NES. His art really meshed well with the existing sprites we kept as well.

    The driver was mainly Anders. I would send him loose specifications. E.g. tiles for a mountain terrain and usually what he sent over was perfect. Some of the enemies such as the “oil lamp” were all thought up by him if I remember correctly.

    What about the change for the crystals going from a collectible like a coin, to being tied to the game play experience.  It was such a smart move.  It gives the player a purpose to collect them and really drives the speed to which you play the game.  How did that change come about?
    Thanks! I feel like pointless points is a common complaint for NES games especially earlier games when developers were still trying to figure out how to port arcade titles to home consoles. I am not sure when the idea hit me, but I do know that fast action is what I wanted from the beginning and tying crystals to your time seemed to support that feeling. Having another variable to tweak when designing levels was great too. Later levels are harder because there is a drought of crystals so players need to plan ahead and collect crystals in earlier levels.
     
    You were pretty open about the project’s development on NESdev and Twitter.  Did you find that helpful to the project’s success, both in terms of development and marketing?
    Yes. Posting progress is motivational for me and generates interest and sales. I think a good chunk of the community likes behind-the-scenes content which luckily I like to share. Also, Twitter appears to be where much of the community who buys or is interested in homebrew games hangs out.

     
    There were some changes suggested along the way and some of them made their way into the game, i.e. Frankengraphics suggested color changes and stepping a block pattern down with some leaves to avoid players thinking an area was a stair.   Did those graphic insights influence the game further than that area?  Was this the type of feedback that drove you to be open to criticism during development?
     
    There are many knowledgeable and intelligent people in the NESDEV community so I try to ask smart questions and listen to what they might say.

    With feedback in general, I took an approach which I think I first heard about from the author Brandon Sanderson. He was talking about how to take input from alpha readers and writing groups. He said something to the effect that you should ask questions like “What was confusing or doesn’t make sense?” “Where did the story lag?” You are mainly looking for how people felt at different parts. You want to measure their emotions like when were they excited, frustrated, and bored.

    Now during all that people may have suggestions for how to fix this or that perceived issue. They may say how to make it better and they could be right, they may be wrong, but ultimately that doesn't matter because all you have to do is note their input and thank them. Don’t argue with their input. Don’t try to clarify or defend your decisions or your work. Be thankful someone is taking the time and effort to give feedback, then later on, on your own time and depending on how many people had the same feedback or problem, you decide if it really is a problem and how you’ll fix it.

    As you might guess this also applies to games.
     
    The game ended up with four different world themes.  How did that come about?
    As long as I can remember Nebs ‘n Debs was going to have 4 world themes. I like how the change in themes conveys a sense of progress to the player and also keeps gameplay interesting.
     
    During development did you scale up or down the project?  Or was the released game the scale you had planned from the start?
    We down-scaled all the time. Our approach to bosses was down-scaled, the number of music tracks, the number of levels, cool animations and art was cut, and probably many other things I can’t remember. It all comes back to NROM. With a limited amount of space, you constantly have to make difficult decisions about what stays and what goes in your game. It’s tough, but the process I think lends itself to better games. We always felt like we were making an NES game. We felt like we had this connection with developers from 30 years past. We had a shared pain.
     
    Did you find NROM to be too limiting?  Or will you develop future games with it?
    Too limiting no. kulor might say otherwise though. 🙂 Yes, I would make an NROM game again.
     

    [Nebs 'n Debs testing, Source: Dullahan website]
     
     
    Can you expand about the down-scaling of the bosses?  What was your original plan for them?
     
    My original plan was for bosses to be more in line with the Koopalings or Mega Man robot-masters. In the beginning Nebs ‘n Debs had a more undersea vibe. I pixeled enemies such as seahorses and starfish to match Nebs the octopus. One of the bosses I had pixeled was a shark with an eye-patch. This shark levitated along the ground in a flying saucer. I programmed a simple pattern for the shark and did a couple test runs against him, but it didn’t feel right.

    Ultimately, I dropped the idea of bosses with active combat because the dash didn’t feel good when combating things that didn’t perish immediately like every other enemy or object in the game. The coolest part of the dash is that once every frame the game checks to see if you are near an enemy. If you are, the game increases the duration of dash for you and maximizes your velocity upon hitting the enemy. So dashing through an enemy is the quickest way to reach top dashing speed and makes you dash longer. I think the actual boss levels that ended up in the game promote fast-paced action and can really get your adrenaline up. Constantly looking down to see where the robot with the crystal is, then looking up quickly to see where the heck you should jump or dash to next...well I think that’s fun.
     
     
    So let's look at the larger team.  You ended up with many people involved.  Dividing up programming, graphics, music, packaging, and illustrations to individuals.  How did that come about and how do you feel the process went?
     
    I can’t compose music. I am middling artist. I’m an OKish programmer. What I am good at
    though is working with others. This unfortunately, is not always a skill that is valued in my line of work as a software engineer. However, when it comes to making games it may be the most important skill I’d say.

    So, I knew I would need other’s hard-work and talent to make the game I wanted to make without
    taking a million years to do it. The process went great. I lucked out and found individuals who did great work and who I could trust.
     
     
    What about the overall development, what did it look like?  Was there a schedule of milestones and deadlines?  Were there challenges that you did not expect?  Any lessons learned during the Process that you want to pass on to aspirating homebrew developers?
     
    Since making NES games is somewhere between a hobby and a part-time business for me I try not to stress myself or collaborators too much. I had some internal milestones, but if I missed one I would just reschedule and move along.

    As for development challenges, I knew I would be up against that same old foe COMPLEXITY!
    Managing complexity is the hardest part when working on big software projects. Writing software for the NES is no different. There are still huge benefits to keeping code and logic isolated when possible.  Breaking up big gnarly subroutines into smaller subroutines. Remember you can always optimize these things later.

    As for advice for aspiring homebrew developers – focus on your asset pipeline! Make it as easy as possible to add new assets to your game be it levels, music, or graphics. If it takes 2 hours to add new sprite-sheets to your game, then you will be reluctant to revise and experiment. This is how you improve your game.
     
    So you wrapped up the game close to being finished and went to Kickstater for the campaign.  What drove you to this route over sale on your website or on a forum?  Do you feel kickstarter was worth the time investment and marketing time?
    To bring down prices for customers with economies of scale and to ameliorate the risk of a physical release for myself. Fronting $15-20K in material costs on-top of the development costs I had already incurred is a tall order for an individual. Yes. I would Kickstart a project again.
     
    You implemented using [GIFS], during development and marketing.  Was this to demonstrate the game’s mechanics or do you think this is generally a superior tool over say showing a static image?
    Yes, animated GIFS all day everyday. They stand out on people’s feeds. They give a sense for the feel of a game. They are dynamic. People always react more and better to GIFs over a static image in my experience.
     
    The campaign ended with almost 500 backers!  How did you feel about the game’s success at that point?
    Proud. Scared. Excited.

     
    I believe you were the first homebrew to offer ROM downloads as a tier option, and many have followed suit, what were your thoughts about offering it for the campaign?  Were you worried about piracy then or now? 
     
    I always knew I would have a ROM-only option. Here is what I believe. I believe when you buy a game it’s yours. You can play it on an emulator. You can play it on a flash-cart. You can play it however.

    When a game limits the media or platform on which you can play it or requires some kind of DRM that phones-home, then your customers are no longer buying your game, they are renting it. One day the platform or console will stop being manufactured. One day the server plug will be pulled. Now, maybe that isn’t for 5, 10, or 20 years; but at some point you will no longer be able to play your game. Your game dies barring some heroic acts of reverse-engineering.

    I wanted to sell copies of Nebs ‘n Debs not rent them.

    There has been some piracy. When it happens I find that our community reacts swiftly though. People reach out and notify me. They report the content on the corresponding platform. They contact the pirate themselves in some cases. The feeling of 100’s of people having your back is pretty great!
     
    That is a very healthy outlook at ownership and that is true, the community really does try to stamp out piracy along the way.
    The game was released early 2019 and has been in the hands of people for a while now.  What have you thought about its reception and feedback since release?
    Seems a long time ago that I released Nebs ‘n Debs! I think the reception continues to be great.
     
    In retrospect, are you happy with the finished product?  Or is there something you would have changed?
    Yes, I am happy with the final product. Maybe the setup for the first dash with a trampoline plant on level 2. Generally player’s figure it out and we tried to put in a couple hints on how it works (e.g. the crystal path and lowering the ceiling to discourage a normal jump and dash), but there was probably a better way to teach that mechanic without frustrating players.

     
    I have heard you like to hide secrets in your games.  Has everything been discovered?  Or are there still some still left to find?
     
    Yes, I love secrets in games. Maybe?

    I can tell you that my favorite hidden items are on the first Forest level there is a chest which I’ve
    someone find on stream and a chest in the last boss level which I haven’t seen anyone find yet. I know some of the retro-achievements on Retro Achievements are for finding all chests on the levels and people have completed those achievements so maybe all my secrets have been found...I will have to hide things better in my next game.
     
     
    The game ended up being picked up by the speedrunning community with some crazy time scores.  Was this something you envisioned or did you make efforts to reach out to their community to spark interest?
     
    Yes, I love watching speedruns and hoped people would run my game. I especially love runs that expose the shape of the underlying game engine or compose and stack glitches to great effect. For example, Final Fantasy 6 Any% New Game+ (Link).

     
    What about the physical aspect of the project?  I.e. boxes, manuals, shells, labels, PCBs, etc. How did you go about the sourcing of art and materials?  Were there challenges and lessons learned from this aspect of the project?
     
    For the shells and PCBs I knew I wanted to work with Infinite NES Lives. Paul is a great person and super supportive of homebrew. For the printed materials I heard Frank Westphal was who I needed to talk to and am glad I did. Both of them contributed to the success of Nebs ‘n Debs. The physical cartridges and CIBs turned out better than I could have imagined!

    As for lessons learned, I would do everything the same again. Hopefully, work with Paul and Frank.  Oh, and definitely, definitely hire a graph designer for laying out the copy and artwork on stickers, manuals, and boxes. Heather Klinger our graphic designer did an awesome job. I think her work makes Nebs ‘n Debs stand out on a shelf when compared to other game boxes.

    Oh, and a game doesn’t feel like a complete game until you have box art. I am so happy with what Kaela Agustin created for Nebs ‘n Debs. Again the art makes the game stand-out. When I see pictures of people’s NES collections I can spot Nebs ‘n Debs immediately. It is unique.
     

    [Left - Box, manual, and label, Right Carts (LE)]

     
    You have moved on to a new project, named Janus, which we will talk about next, but before we do, I wanted to ask about the greater Nebs ‘n Debs franchise.  Do you have any plans to return to it for a sequel?  Maybe a different genre or just picking up where Debs left off?
     
    At this time I am not planning on making another Nebs ‘n Debs platformer for the NES, but
    perhaps for another console like the SNES. I am interested in Nebs and Debs appearing in my other games and have plans to do so.
     
    So what about Janus?  You have been fairly open about its development on Twitter.  For people who are not up to date or for those looking for more, anything you can tell us?
    Hmmmm, Janus is a Zelda-like that will run on VRC6 hardware. It takes place in something like late Antiquity. You play as a heroine who is recruited to investigate local structures built by a fairy-race called the Veilings. No Veiling has been seen for over 20 years. Oh, and our heroine is good with traps and really really good with a slingshot.
     
    [Janus, source: Dullahan Twitter]

    Anything you want to leave the readers with before we close the interview?  Advice?  What homebrews are you looking towards?  Or what to expect from Dullahan Soft in the future?
    Expect more games!
     

    Pixel Artist - Anders Gullmarsvik
    Before we get to talking about Nebs ‘n Debs, tell me a bit about yourself.  Are you a graphic designer by trade?  
    Yes, I’ve been working as a 2D artist in the games industry for a while now. I used to work mostly with Flash games back when they were all the rage but made the jump over to pixelart I think almost 10 years ago and been sticking to it ever since.

    [Anders work examples, Right - Sparklite,  Right - 3D Forest, source: Andres website]
     
    How did you get started doing pixel graphics and then to be working on NES projects?
    It started out as just making artwork for my own small games and projects I did together with my brother. Then by chance I discovered pixel_dailies on twitter and started participating in that community which led to some opportunities and kind of got the ball rolling. What I really like with pixelart is experimenting with different sets of limitations, so making artwork for the NES was something I jumped on as soon as I had the opportunity.
     
    Where do you draw inspiration from?  Is it other pixel art or something else?
    It can be anything really. Other games, movies and other artists. Older games in particular plays a huge part for me, usually things from the 8-bit and 16-bit era.
     
    So let’s get into Neb’s ‘n Debs.  How did you get involved in the project?  Did Chris Cacciatore reach out to you or the other way around?
    Chris reached out to me, I think he had seen some pixelart I had posted on Twitter. He pitched his project and I thought it sounded fun and I was already very curious about working with NES restrictions so it was a no-brainer for me to get involved with the project.
     
    What was it like working with Chris Cacciatore on the project?  Was there a lot of give and take or did you have a lot of freedom to work with?     
    Chris is great to work with. He had some guidance initially on what mood he wanted the game to have and what feeling he was after and that leaves a lot of freedom so that's a nice premise to work with, it suits me well at least. Plus there was already a design for the game's main character so the environments had to work well with that design as well.
     
    Before you were brought on board, the prequel game was light on environmental graphics.  Was this more or less blank slate easy for you to get started with or did the uniform stacking blocks lead you astray at first?  
    I love making game mockups in general so this sort of exploratory work within NES specs was right up my alley. There was some back-and-forth between me and Chris C initially of course but working with these strict limitations made mocking up levels so fast that it wasn't much of a hassle.

    Over the course of development the graphic themes of the project went through many iterations.  Can you expand on what that process was like? 
    Sure! Early on it was mostly just about getting a feel for what direction Chris wanted the visuals to take and from there try to see how far we could push the memory space limitation to make it look as good as we could. Once the first area mockup was done and we had a look we liked, it was fairly easy to create mockups and tilesets for the other three areas.
     
    Did you have any inspiration from other NES games for the graphic tileset or themes?
    Mostly just NES games I played as a kid, some specific ones that come to mind is Castlevania and Little Nemo.

    [Left - Castlevania, Right - Little Nemo the Dream Master]

    What tools did you use?
    I use Aseprite for sprites and animations, and PyxelEdit for tiles.

    [Left - Aseprite, Right - PyxelEdit]


    Did Nebs ‘n Debs present any new challenges for you?  What about the limitations working with NROM / memory space?
    Yes! I had dabbled a bit with NES limitations before but never worked on anything that actually had to run on NES hardware. So there was definitely some getting used to it, luckily Chris C was there to help with what works and what doesn't. The memory space limitation was by far the biggest challenge to me. My mockups for each area were all pretty optimistic in terms of how many tiles we could use per level. Chris always had to cut some stuff.
     
    Looking back on the project, are you happy with the end product?  Anything you would do differently now?
    I'm still very happy with it, especially considering how limited the space was. I think it's in the nature of these things that there are always things you'd like to go back and change. I would say I'm the most pleased with the mockup of the mines and that's probably where I'd change the least.

     Are you working on a new project now or are you looking for one?
    I'm working on a few different projects right now. One I can't say much about, the other is Songs of Conquest (a spiritual successor to Heroes of might and magic 2 and 3), and the last one is actually another NES game made by Chris Cacciatore. This time with a ton of NROM space so visually there are a lot more things we can do which is nice.

    [Songs of Conquest - https://www.songsofconquest.com/]

     
    Are there any other pixel artists either in the homebrew scene or elsewhere whose work you admire?
    So many! Probably too many to list here so I'd rather not I don't want to leave anyone out. Even though I mostly just see the ones that are active on Twitter, there's a ton of talent in the pixelart community at the moment and it's both intimidating and inspiring. It's for sure a great time to work with pixelart.

    Anything you want to leave the readers with before we close the interview?  Advice?  What homebrews are you looking towards playing?
    Just to stay safe and be kind. I don't follow the scene closely enough to keep up with what's happening now, I think the last one I saw that I really liked was Micro Mages.
     
     

    Music Artist - Kulor
    Before we start talking about your workflow and Nebs ‘n Debs, tell me a little bit about yourself.  Have you always been a musician or is this something you got into later in life?
    I think I first really got into music when I was about 12 years old, with MTV Music Generator for the PS1. Me and a couple of friends all had it, and we would get together and make really terrible music which was basically just the built-in loops stacked together, we would listen to eachothers' stuff, it was good times. I didn't really get into composition in any serious capacity until a bit later, when I started trying to make games using RPG Maker 2000. At first, I would just grab MIDI covers of video game music from vgmusic.com, but eventually I wanted some song that nobody had made a cover of, so I ended up discovering Anvil Studio and diving into making my own MIDI covers, and it all sort of took off from there.

     
    [Left - MTV Music Generator, Right - RPG Maker 2000]
     
    That is very interesting, that your music entrance was through a console rather than a computer or instrument and then ultimately through creating games.  What about chiptunes, did that follow suit soon after or right around the time you started composing for NES (Nebs ‘n Debs, Altered Ego and Super Painter).  Have you worked on other systems besides the NES?
    Chiptunes are something I had always wanted to make, I grew up on the NES and Gameboy and have always really enjoyed the unique sound they had. Even when I was making original music in Anvil Studio, I would often limit myself to just using the most "square wave" sounding instrument, in an effort to pretend I was making 8-bit music. By the time I was asked to contribute to my first NES homebrew project (Alter Ego), I had been making NES chiptunes for a few years, and it was really a sort of cold call; Shiru just reached out and said "if you want to make music for this game, you have a week to get me a soundtrack" and I did it. Really grateful he asked me, as it seems to have lead to all of my other homebrew projects so far! As for other systems, the only other system I scored OSTs for was the ZX Spectrum 128; I scored Carlos Michelis IV many years ago, as well as a very impressive game that came out last year called Redshift. One of my very old Atari 2600 songs was also used for the title screen of a modern conversion of Star Castle, though that wasn't written specifically for that game. And it's probably worth mentioning, I've totally had my music stolen as well! I believe at least two of my Sega Genesis tracks found their way in a very odd Russian bootleg Felix the Cat game, which is pretty surreal to me because it's actually an attempt to port the NES Felix game, which I've loved since I was a kid.

    Wow! Stolen work and a Felix tie in, you have made it! Though it's obviously a compliment in a way, that's such an unfortunate thing to have your work stolen. Speaking of your other work, last year you released an album, Soundchip Salad, which you described as touching upon two different aspects in your musical journey; hacking keyboards and programming for old consoles.  Tell us a bit about the project and the album that resulted from it.
    So Soundchip Salad was a years-long effort to produce an album where every song explores a different piece of hardware/software. It starts out with the NES, hitting a number of various expansion chips used in a more-or-less standalone way, then branches out to other things, ending with my first efforts to hack MIDI control into old Casio keyboards. Along the way, I ended up programming what I will arrogantly consider the world's most advanced Atari 2600 music engine, as well as learning enough about digital electronics to create a breadboard that would allow me to replace the keys on virtually any old keyboard with digital switches, which can then be controlled either through scripting or with a MIDI. It's sort of funny, because you would probably never guess based on what they sound like, but the two Casio tracks (How Your Grandparents Met and Blend-o-Matic 2000) are by far the most technical songs on that album. The concept of Soundchip Salad is one that I'm still hoping to explore more with future releases -- there's still a ton of soundchips out there!

    [Soundchip Salad]
     
    That is fascinating, the journey the creative process takes you.  I hope you do go back and see where the concepts can take you in the future.  What about the release of the album?  I saw you released it both digitally and on cassette.  I have been noticing releases on cassette have been a trend for chiptunes in the last few years.  What was the draw for you to pursue that?
    It's funny, there's obviously the "retro appeal" aspect of cassettes, but I really believe there's a sort of practical advantage of cassettes as well, even in this day and age. Nowadays, everybody listens to music digitally, so the actual fidelity of the physical release doesn't really matter all that much. What's far more important is the quality of the media itself. I investigated doing CDs, which are slightly cheaper, but in order to be economical, I would have had to have ordered many times more CDs than I did cassettes, otherwise they wouldn't have been proper pressed CDs, but rather CD-Rs, which I thought seemed cheap and undesirable. I also looked into doing vinyl, but it was far more expensive, and I was concerned I wouldn't be able to sell enough units to make it worth it. For a project like this, where you're only producing 100 or so, cassettes really do offer you the best quality product at the cheapest price for a physical release.

    [Soundchip Salad Cassette]
     
    Your twitter handle, CommodoreKulor, where did that come from?
    One day a very long time ago, I was sick of the handle I was using for internet stuff, so I asked my friend to come up with a new one and he said "KUUUULOOOOORRRR" so I went with it. As for the "Commodore" part, someone else keeps beating me to the "kulor" name, and the Commodore 64 SID soundchip is my all-time favorite, so it just seems fitting.
     
    Let’s dive into your workflow.  How do you go about the composing and production of your chiptune music?  What tools do you use? Give us an example of your typical working day.
    Well, it can vary a lot depending on what I'm doing! I use very different tools for making music for different platforms. In the case of the NES, I use Famitracker, and that was how I approached Nebs 'n' Debs as well. There isn't really anything more to it, really; I produce a Famitracker module, send it over to Chris, and he converts it to the format used by the game. There were also a number of instances where we had to fiddle with the converter to get it to work properly, which were always "fun".

    [Famitracker]


    Speaking of the NES, do you find the restrictions for music on the NES to be stifling or to be empowering for your creativity?
    I'd like to make a distinction here, because making music "for the NES" and making music for a real NES game are very different experiences, with very different limitations. I've always enjoyed working within limitations, and all things considered, I don't find the NES to be terribly limiting for what I like to do with it. Famitracker has one of the best feature sets of any tracker, so you're really just constrained to the handful of channels and timbres the NES is capable of, and who really needs more than a couple square waves and a triangle to get by? Now, when making music for a real game, there are many other considerations on top of the usual NES audio hardware limitations: the music engine needs to be very lightweight, as most of the CPU time is spent playing the game, so you don't get most of the really nice features Famitracker usually has. On top of that, and what I find to be the toughest limitation, you oftentimes only have a handful of kilobytes of memory to fit everything into -- in Nebs 'n' Debs' case, everything had to be crammed into a meager 7KB! There were a handful of cases where there were many things I wanted to do in Nebs 'n' Debs which I couldn't because there just wasn't enough room. So, yes, doing real NES game OSTs can be somewhat stifling sometimes.

    I always find the data constraints fascinating.  7KB, that is wild.  How do you approach these projects?  Where do you look for inspiration or generally what was the process like for this particular project?
    Usually my approach to doing a game OST is to put together a small sketch, which is usually just a short loop, and throw it by the game designer to see if that fits what the song is trying to do in the game. If so, I finish it out; if not, I can start over without having lost much. My biggest inspiration for this project was Soyo Oka, the composer who scored Pilotwings, Super Mario Kart, and Sim City for the SNES, along with many other things.

    Now that you can look back at your work in retrospect, how do you feel about the project overall?  Was the development smooth or were there challenges along the way?
    There were definitely challenges, but Chris is really cool to work with, and it was one of my more enjoyable experiences doing an OST. Seeing the game do so well probably also contributes to that...!

    Anything you would do differently looking back now?
    A bit of a technical one I suppose, but we used the FamiTone music engine for this game, and I was under some false assumptions on how to save space effectively in that engine. I ended up doing a lot of pattern optimization which didn't end up actually saving space, but by the time I knew that was how FamiTone worked, it was too late to go back and revise things. I was also extremely close to not having enough space for a proper credits song, but fortunately we were able to slice off a handful of bytes and I was able to squeeze in about half of what I originally wanted to do.

    Bytes!? Glad you were all able to fit it. 
    Stepping away from Nebs ‘n Debs to look at your larger work, do you feel there are any aspects to your music that only you do that might be called your signature?
    Well, I don't know about anything that "only" I do, heh. But I've always tried to emphasize jazzy harmonies, funky basslines, and neat chord progressions, all married with some degree of "trying to squeeze a lot out of the hardware".

    Is there another artist in the homebrew scene whose work you admire?  Or an up and coming artist that you are paying attention to?
    Maxo, whose album "Chordslayer" is legitimately one of my favorite things ever! I'll also give a shoutout to my oldest homie in the NES music and vgmusic.com scene, Dave "lunar" Harris, whose music has been a huge inspiration to me since forever ago.


    Are there any dream projects you hope to work on?
    I would absolutely love to score a game for the Commodore 64! Aside from that, anything on the Atari 8-bit computers would be great, as I've always enjoyed working with the Pokey soundchip. But possibly most of all, I would really love to get into some 16-bit stuff, and score a Sega Genesis or SNES game. Right now I'm doing a Genesis soundtrack for a game, but it's not a real Genesis game, so I'm hoping someday I'll be able to squeeze into one of those.

    Anything you want to leave the readers with before we close the interview?  Advice?  What homebrews are you looking towards?  Or what to expect from Kulor in the future?
    Honestly, I always kinda hear about homebrew retroactively, it seems like I'm never following it close enough to know about something before it drops. I am definitely looking forward to Chris' next project, codename Janus, which is going to be a lot of fun to work on. I'm also looking forward to eggboycolor's JRPG project, as well as the incredibly endearing Orange Island, which even has some music by Soyo Oka herself.
     
    8. Closing
    And there you have it, Nebs 'n Debs, a fantastic platforming homebrew game.  Check out the prequel or the final game if you haven't already and let me know your thoughts.  See you again for the next episode of Homebrews in Focus.

    [Source: Nebs 'n Debs manual]
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