VGS NES TOURNAMENT - Top 8/9

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

3 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

@0xDEAFC0DEwould/will still win sports cat yearly even if we did change the rule. He shreds those games even when code isnt helpful. 

Deaf, I do think you should clarify if holding start to get 0 wind on hole 1 is allowed. That seems outside the bounds of our standard rules, but Im far from an expert

Predicting wind is likely impossible.  Even holding out for favourable conditions on hole 1 makes no difference.  I tested this by save stating after finishing hole 1, but before the new hole loaded.  After reloading the state, the wind changed every time.  Once the stage loads, it's set, even if saved before the wind is displayed, meaning it is set at some point between the transition.  @0xDEAFC0DE can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it would appear that there is no way to predict the RNG for the next hole's wind...it's just random.

[Krunch | 303]

Eh... my opinion is that the script functions like a yard reader in real golf, which in games is analogous to having the grid showing where you land, like most golf games. In addition, it can read wind.

The issue is that everyone else on every shot has to read their lie but you dont with a script.  This is the most challenging part is making the right calls and then pairing it with a shot you think will work.  Sure you still have to make the shot but even if that goes badly you can just enter your next reading into the script so the natural "bad domino effect" of the game is lost.

If you still pull out a -24 then thats commendable.  But really, it makes me kinda just not want to play. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Krunch

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

1 hour ago, NESfiend said:

@0xDEAFC0DEwould/will still win sports cat yearly even if we did change the rule. He shreds those games even when code isnt helpful. 

Deaf, I do think you should clarify if holding start to get 0 wind on hole 1 is allowed. That seems outside the bounds of our standard rules, but Im far from an expert

Why would holding start to get no wind on hole 1 not be allowed? I don't see how that would be cheating as it's just the way the game works. (I'll expand on how this works two posts down). 

1 hour ago, the_wizard_666 said:

And unless I missed something, you haven't posted for Soccer or Tennis yet...if you figure something out that would help though, feel free to chime in!

Yeah, just started on them and I'm definitely not as good. I've only scored one goal so far in soccer which unfortunately was on my first game when I got scored on. And tennis I've yet to take more than one game. 

1 hour ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Predicting wind is likely impossible.  Even holding out for favourable conditions on hole 1 makes no difference.  I tested this by save stating after finishing hole 1, but before the new hole loaded.  After reloading the state, the wind changed every time.  Once the stage loads, it's set, even if saved before the wind is displayed, meaning it is set at some point between the transition.  @0xDEAFC0DE can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it would appear that there is no way to predict the RNG for the next hole's wind...it's just random.

The wind you get depends on frame you beat the level, so unless you are making a TAS, it's not manipulatable at all. The one exception is the first hole where holding start gets you to the first hole on the same frame every time. 

[NESfiend | 1,515]

8 minutes ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

Why would holding start to get no wind on hole 1 not be allowed? I don't see how that would be cheating as it's just the way the game works. 

I was thinking its akin to putting in a code to get better starting conditions. Contra gives you extra lives if you put in the konami code, and thats how the game works as well. I definitely see your point too though and am well aware that isnt a direct comparison by any means. But youd rather find out now than tomorrow night if it is an issue

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

24 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

I was thinking its akin to putting in a code to get better starting conditions. Contra gives you extra lives if you put in the konami code, and thats how the game works as well. I definitely see your point too though and am well aware that isnt a direct comparison by any means. But youd rather find out now than tomorrow night if it is an issue

Thing is, it's possible to get that 0 wind without knowing about holding start.  It's impossible (short of using a keylogger) to tell if it's legit or not.  And zero wind on the first hole is hardly advantageous in the grand scheme...I mean, if I don't birdie on hole one, I typically just reset and start over.  So really, it's a non-issue to me.

[NESfiend | 1,515]

16 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

I mean, if I don't birdie on hole one, I typically just reset and start over.  So really, it's a non-issue to me.

He isnt making birdie, hes making eagle knowing exactly where to hit it with no wind. Not the same as getting it randomly when you can use the trick to get it every time and practice knowing right where to hit it

Edited December 5, 2021 by NESfiend

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

6 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

He isnt making birdie, hes making eagle knowing exactly where to hit it with no wind. Not the same as getting it randomly when you can use the trick to get it every time and practice knowing right where to hit it

....Once again showing the stark contrast between reading code and just being really good at a particular video game genre...

EDIT - But I've been doing what I assume everyone else has: no birdie on hole 1 = an immediate reset...

Edited December 5, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[BeaIank | 1,618]

We will be discussing the whole debugging code ordeal before the 2022 season starts.
I very much understand the excitement of debugging and understanding how it works, but I feel we need to make sure that this information needs to be at least SHARED with the field when someone digs deep into the code to make it fair to everyone.

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

2 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

....Once again showing the stark contrast between reading code and just being really good at a particular video game genre...

EDIT - But I've been doing what I assume everyone else has: no birdie on hole 1 = an immediate reset...

Actually that one I figured out through the Speedrun video description and was doing it when I first started practicing on Monday. Both of which happened before I started looking at the code. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

2 hours ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

Actually that one I figured out through the Speedrun video description and was doing it when I first started practicing on Monday. Both of which happened before I started looking at the code. 

The stark contrast I'm talking about is not how you found the start trick, but the fact that it is insignificant to pretty much any normal player, whereas when operating at the code level it's a quick set-up to an automatic eagle on Hole 1, which is obviously a killer advantage right from the get-go...

[NESfiend | 1,515]

Better start practicing your tennis, @Dr. Morbis And no, my updated score does not include an eagle on the first hole. I still haven't heard from a mod on whether thats allowed. It probably will be, but I am not risking it. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

28 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

Better start practicing your tennis, @Dr. Morbis And no, my updated score does not include an eagle on the first hole. I still haven't heard from a mod on whether thats allowed. It probably will be, but I am not risking it. 

Yeah my best Golf score doesn't include the hole 1 eagle either, but anyway, congrats on -14, that's a great score!  I actually just played my first full match of Tennis tonight and lost 0-6, 0-6, so I've got some work to do over the last 20 or so hours...

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

The stark contrast I'm talking about is not how you found the start trick, but the fact that it is insignificant to pretty much any normal player, whereas when operating at the code level it's a quick set-up to an automatic eagle on Hole 1, which is obviously a killer advantage right from the get-go...

I was doing the eagle too before looking at the code. Although I just copied what the guy did in the Speedrun. But your point definitely stands for the rest of the holes. 

[Jeevan | 8,910]

5 hours ago, NESfiend said:

Better start practicing your tennis, @Dr. Morbis And no, my updated score does not include an eagle on the first hole. I still haven't heard from a mod on whether thats allowed. It probably will be, but I am not risking it. 

u improved!!!!  good job buddy.

[NESfiend | 1,515]

7 hours ago, Jeevan said:

u improved!!!!  good job buddy.

Wish I could have squeezed out one more stroke, but it is exactly one better than my personal best. So at least I improved.

I think another stroke would be for nought though. Dr M has it up his sleeve. And that's fine. My chances in the final went from slim to none when games were announced. I like batman, but Im really bad at it. 

[Jeevan | 8,910]

11 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

Wish I could have squeezed out one more stroke, but it is exactly one better than my personal best. So at least I improved.

I think another stroke would be for nought though. Dr M has it up his sleeve. And that's fine. My chances in the final went from slim to none when games were announced. I like batman, but Im really bad at it. 

at least you can go back to Antarctic adventures now lol, I need to find me a copy of that one!!!  

[NESfiend | 1,515]

23 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

at least you can go back to Antarctic adventures now lol, I need to find me a copy of that one!!!  

Ive actually been planning on getting on the 64 when this wraps up for me. Finally got a copy of snowboard kids. Rented it some back in the day and enjoyed it. Havent played it in a decade.

[NESfiend | 1,515]

Was hoping for highest non programmer golf score, but vested by @the_wizard_666 w/-15!!  Crazy score man. Way to go 

[BeaIank | 1,618]

Current standings posted.

For scores that don't include the soccer picture, a -10 score was factored in order to form a full scoreboard.
For scores that don't include the tennis picture, a -2 score was factored.
For scores that don't include the golf picture, a -10 score was factored.

@Bearcat-Doug has messaged me and due to family illness, if he makes to top 8, he will forfeit from playing and the 5th place will advance.
May his family member have a speedy recovery.

[NESfiend | 1,515]

36 minutes ago, BeaIank said:

Current standings posted.

For scores that don't include the soccer picture, a -10 score was factored in order to form a full scoreboard.
For scores that don't include the tennis picture, a -2 score was factored.
For scores that don't include the golf picture, a -10 score was factored.

@Bearcat-Doug has messaged me and due to family illness, if he makes to top 8, he will forfeit from playing and the 5th place will advance.
May his family member have a speedy recovery.

Shouldnt wiz and I be tied at +14 points? He has 15 for golf, one for soccer, and negative 2 for tennis

[BeaIank | 1,618]

3 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

Shouldnt wiz and I be tied at +14 points? He has 15 for golf, one for soccer, and negative 2 for tennis

Fixed.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

1 minute ago, NESfiend said:

Shouldnt wiz and I be tied at +14 points? He has 15 for golf, one for soccer, and negative 2 for tennis

While technically yes, it doesn't matter as I won't make enough points to beat @bertsampson.  Since round 2 is technically a continuation of round 1 for the two of us, only one of us can advance, regardless of how many people I score ahead of.  And since my goal in Soccer was an absolute fluke, I doubt I could even replicate that win, nevermind improve on it.  And since I can't seem to score against the computer on Tennis unless they do it to themselves, that's a writeoff.  And at -15 already, I doubt I could shave three more strokes off my game in what little time remains.

 

40 minutes ago, BeaIank said:

@Bearcat-Doug has messaged me and due to family illness, if he makes to top 8, he will forfeit from playing and the 5th place will advance.
May his family member have a speedy recovery.

@Bearcat-Doug All the best to you bud...take care of the fam-jam!

 

[BeaIank | 1,618]

1 minute ago, the_wizard_666 said:

While technically yes, it doesn't matter as I won't make enough points to beat @bertsampson.  Since round 2 is technically a continuation of round 1 for the two of us, only one of us can advance, regardless of how many people I score ahead of.  And since my goal in Soccer was an absolute fluke, I doubt I could even replicate that win, nevermind improve on it.  And since I can't seem to score against the computer on Tennis unless they do it to themselves, that's a writeoff.  And at -15 already, I doubt I could shave three more strokes off my game in what little time remains.

I don't very much care about this. If both of you make top 4(5), both of you are making to grand finals and that is that.
Anyone that has a problem with that can take their matters to me.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just now, BeaIank said:

I don't very much care about this. If both of you make top 4(5), both of you are making to grand finals and that is that.
Anyone that has a problem with that can take their matters to me.

I'd argue that point, but if @Bearcat-Doug is out, and everyone else is cool with it, I'll go for it.  I doubt I'd win it all anyway...shooters (especially mystery ones) aren't my forte, and Batman's gonna take a hell of a lot of work to perfect for me, but I'm game to compete if there are no complaints.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

18 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

 @Bearcat-Doug All the best to you bud...take care of the fam-jam!

 

Thanks, I appreciate it! It's nothing serious (hopefully), but I need to make myself available to check in/help out so that likely wouldn't give me enough playing time to come up with a competitive score. Good luck if you end up taking my spot!