Crime & Punishment -- USA Edition

[avatar! | 1,807]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

On the other side of the coin (and this is where the NRA is gonna come down on me), what the heck is so wrong with license/registration/serial numbers on firearms?  I mean we have those for motor vehicles and no one seems to mind.

Firearms all have unique serial numbers as required by law. Sometimes you hear about a criminal removing the serial number which is against the law - this is done typically on stolen guns so that they can not be traced. Also, if you purchase a gun, be it at a dealer or gunshow, you absolutely will need to go through a background check. That said, "ghost guns" are also becoming a real issue since they too are often "untraceable".

[Californication | 1,477]

When people continually give suggestions that have zero percent chance of solving a problem at some point you have to decide they are either acting in bad faith or are really stupid. 

[360collector | 289]

Not letting mentally ill people legally own guns would be a great start. But the definitions are so blurred these days I question the effect it would have. There is an ongoing trial here about a guy that went on a spree last year with bow and arrow, killed 5 some injured. All were killed after armed police made contact with the suspect but police retreated in fear of their own safety. Kinda like Texas where they all sat outside while the madman was given time. So you cant really rely on the police and you cant let everyone carry in my opinion. For info nobody is allowed to carry guns here in public so we do rely on the police, cant say its working out too well. The ideal would be something in the middle

[avatar! | 1,807]

35 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I own an AR.  I can sell/give it to pretty much anyone who isn't a violent felon.  No paper trail. And even then there's nothing stopping me, and barely a possibility of repercussions.

That does vary from state to state - I know for instance that in CA you can't simply give someone a gun as a gift even if they have no criminal history and are eligible to own a gun, it must go through a dealer and therefore a background check. Of course in other states, most states, I believe there are no such restrictions.

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

28 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Keep going princess... I could think of a necktie at this rate I would love to see you fitted for.  Now you're on ignore, a list of one, as I don't need you toxifying my notifications any further.

Bruh, escape to your safe space like a true beta. Dont let my rights get in your way!

 

Nothing more gutless than ignoring someone that calls you out on your bullshit.  Thats some CCP level ducking.

 

Every time I wreck a chump like you on the internet, I get stronger, like highlander. 

[avatar! | 1,807]

https://www.american.edu/spa/civildiscourse/what-is-civil-discourse.cfm

Polarization of opinions, coupled with the speed and access of the digital age have made it more difficult to keep our conversations civil in America today. From shouting matches, to opinionated blog posts, to rhetoric-filled political debates, we are confronted every day with uncivil conversation.

Civil Discourse is

• Truthful
• Productive
• Audience-based
• About listening and talking
• Each Speaker's own responsibility

Civil Discourse is not

• Mere politeness
• An exercise in martyrdom
• About telling other people who they are
• Purely performative

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

Which is why we must all unify around our hatred of Russia.  A common enemy is the only path forward 

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

6 minutes ago, avatar! said:

 

Civil Discourse is

• Truthful
•  

Thats the first hurdle

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

2 hours ago, Tabonga said:

Again I ask what other enumerated rights we should have to pay to practice?

Do you have a better idea or do you just want to keep letting kids get killed?

[Tabonga | 2,314]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

So I dont understand- did militas use something other than single shot l, non rifled bore muskets? Maybe im not up on my revolutionary war armaments. 

Rifling in muskets was invented in 1498.   Rifled muskets were available but for a variety of reasons not used much  in the Revolutionary War.  Kentucky long rifles (actually first made in Pennsylvania) began appearing in about 1740. Again for a variety of reasons they were not used militarily very much at first.  The frontiersmen took to them though and it wasn't unusual for members of those militias to use them - in fact  two riflemen fired at the British general leading the land attack on Baltimore during the war of 1812  and one of them potted him.  The land forces fell back and with the successful defence of Fort McHenry the British were repulsed on both fronts.  There were a few battles in the Revolutionary War where rifles were important but it escapes me which ones right now.

There were also really primitive hand grenades  (dating to about 1500 - which is where the term grenadier comes from) that were about as dangerous to the user as the enemy.  Mostly used during ship battles they were sometimes used by land forces if the circumstances were right.

The point is that militias would be expected to use contemporary weapons - so a militia today would be expected to use contempory weapons rather than muskets.  And a colonial militia would be expected to use muskets/rifles rather than claymores.

 

 

[Tabonga | 2,314]

39 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Do you have a better idea or do you just want to keep letting kids get killed?

Israel seems to have clamped down on school shootings (I believe there have been 6 since 1974) in an environment where there are far more dangerous weapons floating around in (likely) far greater quantity per capita.  And they face an ongoing organized threat unlike the various loose cannons (as it were) we wind up with here.  Maybe we can learn from them.

[Tabonga | 2,314]

2 hours ago, Gloves said:

I dunno what the training requirements are if any in the States for owning a weapon, but my sense is that the intent was that those owning weapons should be well trained in their use (so as to not accidentally hurt their loved ones or bystanders etc.), and with regard to regulation I imagine the intent was permits, licenses, whatever - some manner of tracking (paper at the time, ideally digital today) of whom holds what. 

I believe it was primarily anti-federationalists who wanted to be capable of rebelling against their own government should the government become corrupt, likely based at least in part on the whole England thing. Which is like, a fair enough point. 

At the time of the revolution most towns/villages would have local militias responsible for defense and they would train locally (training anywhere at a distance wasn't at all practical).  The militias would be comprised of all able bodied men in a certain age range and would be expected to provide their own weapons.  (There was generally a provision for poor people who couldn't  get an adequate weapon) They generally mustered in cases of need or the odd day of training.  They were often incorporated into state militias and generally didn't function well in larger aggregations simply because they weren't trained for it.

Despite their flaws the militias were recognized as being important during the revolution - and some of them performed well - especially if they survived long enough to become seasoned.

[Brickman | 3,982]

Reading through this thread is like seeing a mini snapshot of America haha. No wonder why the country as a whole can’t decide on anything anymore.

And for some reason it always comes back to Democrat vs republican or red vs blue or left wing vs right wing. It’s like the media has brainwashed people to think they’re a sports team 

The whole tragedy of this situation is that mass shootings are still happening every day after this incident and people still can’t understand why gun laws are a good thing. They even want to try and arm teachers? Lmao as if a teacher is going to take down a lunatic with an assault rifle in the heat of a battle. 

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

53 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Israel seems to have clamped down on school shootings (I believe there have been 6 since 1974) in an environment where there are far more dangerous weapons floating around in (likely) far greater quantity per capita.  And they face an ongoing organized threat unlike the various loose cannons (as it were) we wind up with here.  Maybe we can learn from them.

Forced conscription?

[Tabonga | 2,314]

6 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Forced conscription?

I don't think forced conscription would be necessary - an organization between the police and the national guard could likely be formed and filled out by voluntary means.  It wouldn't have to be as huge as the IDF (in all of its stripes) since its function would be much more focused.   

[Californication | 1,477]

18 minutes ago, Brickman said:

Reading through this thread is like seeing a mini snapshot of America haha. No wonder why the country as a whole can’t decide on anything anymore.

And for some reason it always comes back to Democrat vs republican or red vs blue or left wing vs right wing. It’s like the media has brainwashed people to think they’re a sports team 

The whole tragedy of this situation is that mass shootings are still happening every day after this incident and people still can’t understand why gun laws are a good thing. They even want to try and arm teachers? Lmao as if a teacher is going to take down a lunatic with an assault rifle in the heat of a battle. 

I agree with the final outcome, but this is not a both sides issue. One party is okay with guns being everywhere that result in children getting murdered.

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

32 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

I don't think forced conscription would be necessary - an organization between the police and the national guard could likely be formed and filled out by voluntary means.  It wouldn't have to be as huge as the IDF (in all of its stripes) since its function would be much more focused.   

In Israel, all males and females have to serve in the military. Is what I meant. 

[Tabonga | 2,314]

1 minute ago, MrWunderful said:

In Israel, all males and females have to serve in the military. Is what I meant. 

I know - I was commenting that I don't think we need conscription since our goals would be different. 

Having lived through the inequities of the Vietnam War and draft I would hope any future drafts would be truly universal - with the caveat that the offspring of the rich and powerful be sent off as cannon fodder before anyone else for a change.

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

42 minutes ago, Californication said:

I agree with the final outcome, but this is not a both sides issue. One party is okay with guns being everywhere that result in children getting murdered.

I will also add that same party is constantly trying to make a section of our populations lives significantly worse, at the same time voting for people Who in fact make their own lives worse but tell them that it’s the other parties fault and they believe it. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

Israel seems to have clamped down on school shootings (I believe there have been 6 since 1974) in an environment where there are far more dangerous weapons floating around in (likely) far greater quantity per capita.  And they face an ongoing organized threat unlike the various loose cannons (as it were) we wind up with here.  Maybe we can learn from them.

Or we could learn from the numerous countries who enacted strict gun control laws. Since the guns are the problem here. 

[Tabonga | 2,314]

2 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Or we could learn from the numerous countries who enacted strict gun control laws. Since the guns are the problem here. 

Or maybe Switzerland or Mexico!

[Californication | 1,477]

46 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I will also add that same party is constantly trying to make a section of our populations lives significantly worse, at the same time voting for people Who in fact make their own lives worse but tell them that it’s the other parties fault and they believe it. 

I can't completly agree because there are some issues we're the democrats have enough people that don't want to help the issue so they sink it Healthcare, student loan forgiveness, school privatization, fed appointees, disproportionate tax system, foreign wars all come to mind.

But to your point, the Supreme Court seats that the Republicans were able to steal are going to cause damage in nearly every aspect of our lives. They care about big business more than about Americans lives and they are already looking at dismantling things like the EPA.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Californication

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

16 minutes ago, Californication said:

I can't completly agree because there are some issues we're the democrats have enough people that don't want to help the issue so they sink it Healthcare, student loan forgiveness, school privatization, fed appointees, disproportionate tax system, foreign wars all come to mind.

Yeah but none of that is taking rights away from women, or investigating parents. Or using the state to punish private business, or outlawing books. Most democrat ideas make zero fiscal sense, but thats only relevant when you have a functioning democracy
 

Im not framing it as a repub vs dem in this specific discussion. I see why it was brought up, I was just making a point about how terrible conservative social policy is. Wrong thread though, dialing it back. 
 

Too much of a political tangent. @ me in the political thread if you want. 

[Kguillemette | 1,543]

So two mass shootings on Sunday(one in OK at a memorial day festival, and another in Chattanooga TN) and another shooting today in Tulsa, OK.

Shit can happen literally anywhere. Even in gun friendly hyper republican states!

[Californication | 1,477]

4 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

So two mass shootings on Sunday(one in OK at a memorial day festival, and another in Chattanooga TN) and another shooting today in Tulsa, OK.

Shit can happen literally anywhere. Even in gun friendly hyper republican states!

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't almost all of the largest mass shooting in red states? Nevada, Florida, Texas.