Open Debate: Are "cheat devices" really cheating?

[m308gunner | 352]

18 hours ago, Alder said:

Would you say it's only cheating then if you have an opponent? If I'm playing a game by myself then it's impossible to cheat? To me, cheating just implies an unfair advantage, regardless of whether or not you have some opponent. But what advantages are unfair? I'd say swapping bytes in memory using some external device definitely counts. The question is harder to answer when it's just the game executing as it was programmed. Is taking advantage of an exploit cheating? What about glitches? I'm comfortable saying it depends case by case.

 Yes, I would say it's only cheating if an opponent is involved who is unaware/incapable of participating in said contest on an equal footing. 

[MeganJoanne | 365]

4 hours ago, ookii_risu said:

@MeganJoanneNice story of triumph! I bet it was a shocker thinking you beat it and then finding out you had to go through the whole thing again. IIRC, Nintendo Power had a huge segment on  Ghosts 'n Goblins, and I think that's how I found out about having to go through it twice. I rented the game once and didn't get very far as it was.

Sure as hell was. Thankfully by the time Super Ghouls & Ghosts came out for the SNES I knew what to expect, and that one while challenging was nowhere near as hard.

[CMR | 519]

Yes, but they can also add to the fun. 

[MeganJoanne | 365]

I was never into using codes much (my favorites were always sound test codes, every game should've had these to listen to the game music and sound effects, but very few did), sometimes they were fun to mess around with, sometimes even though useful they were too much trouble (one of the more difficult ones being Robowarrior but gave you stage skip, unlimited items and walk through walls), but I did have a Game Genie later in life during my start of the millennium NES collection (1999-2010), hardly used it, but did mess around with it a few times and actually found some fun or useful codes but mostly it was a short term novelty.

Custom Game Genie Codes (discovered by me in 2004)

*Alien³    Codes below activated upon starting game (Alien³ codes created 3/31/2004):

"PULSES" Fire through walls with grenade launcher. (tested partially)
"PULSSS" Grenade rounds float in suspended animation...nice, air mines! (tested up to the end of the game)
"PULSEZ" With grenade launcher selected, stand still to toss hand grenades, move forward or duck to fire grenade rounds...2 weapons in one, double impact! (tested partially)
"ZULSEN" Fire through doors with pulse rifle or grenade launcher, can also throw hand grenades through unopened doors as well. (tested partially)
"PUPSSV" Throw hand grenades through doors. (tested up to the end of the game)

*Guardian Legend, The : "GAZELL" = press start to view demos one after another, press start during them to skip to the next

*Kid Kool : "VTOKAI" = To see the ending : Find your red buddy, then throw him, don't pick him back up again, a moment later the screen will shift as if glitched, Kool will sound as if he fell into water and died, then you'll see the ending of the game.

*Low G Man (With the following codes, first clear CH 1-1, then you'll warp to the chosen stage):

"PALIKA" CH 1-2 Manufacturing Zone
"ZALIKA" CH 1-3 Metalhead
"LALIKA" CH 2-1 Frozen Wasteland
"GALIKA" CH 2-2 Ocean Depths
"IALIKA" CH 2-3 Submarine
"TALIKA" CH 3-1 Cobalt Mines
"YALIKA" CH 3-2 Magma Mountains
"AALIKE" CH 3-3 The Cliffs
"PALIKE" CH 3-4 Super Tank
"ZALIKE" CH 4-1 The Tower
"LALIKE" CH 4-2 Industrial Zone
"GALIKE" CH 4-3 Mothership
"IALIKE" CH 5-1 Getting Closer
"TALIKE" CH 5-2 Final Encounter

With these below you'll be unable to exit them, time will run out and you'll die, only to repeat the bonus stage again:

"YALIKE" CH 1-0 Cyber Express
"APLIKA" CH 6-0 Bonus Area
"PPLIKA" CH 6-0 Bonus Area
"ZPLIKA" CH 3-0 Anti-Gravity Transport
"LPLIKA" CH 6-0 Bonus Area

This code'll give you permanent invincibility right from the start, good for exploring the game (Low G Man code created 3/31/2004):

"LATEKA" (tested up to the end of the game)

This code will give you a LV3 spear on your next life, so after you die you'll have a longer spear (Low G Man code created 3/31/2004):

"LAISVA"

[CMR | 519]

In the defense of turbo controllers, they do make some games more fun and playable.  Commando and Gunsmoke are good examples.  Gunsmoke plays like a different game, and you aren't killing yourself pounding your controller into oblivion.  In Commando you can actually fire bullets in more than eight directions, but you would probably never see this without turbo fire to hit those in between movements.  It's such a buggy game though, I almost think the designers did it by accident.

[Estil | 1,261]

This is more the old fashioned kind of cheating but YES, if you use a cheating device or in game cheat codes or save states then NO it doesn't count as truly "winning the game".  Just like how back in the day if you wanted to be featured in Nintendo Power for breaking game records or something you had to take a picture of BOTH your monitor and the game console in the same picture to prove you do NOT have a cheating device attached...or nooooooooo Power Stamps for you!!!

Edited November 23, 2019 by Estil

[MachineCode | 159]

On 11/6/2019 at 2:51 AM, peg said:

It always gives me a good laugh when these ignorant dummies say using autofire is cheating in shmups.  After all, it's a "cheat device", right?  Like these low-level bottom feeding scubs that can't even clear a single game on 1 credit are shitting all over the Japanese world record holders and elite players that have spent hundreds and more likely thousands of hours into these games.  But these clowns that take 50 credits to "beat" Gradius or Raiden, they totally have it all figured out.

Hey man, there’s a reason they used to refer to them as thumb breakers back in the day.

[MeganJoanne | 365]

Silver Surfer was the ultimate thumb breaker for me. I struggled with that one trying to get off those shots rapidly enough to kill any single enemy.

[acromite53 | 337]

Everyone has to be their own judge on that one. Personally, I'd consider it not a legitimate completion if I beat a game by cheating. Also, I dont use rapid fire for shooters. It's not a true completion to me unless the feature is built in to the game or system(turbografx). It was painful but I did beat 1943 NES by tapping the buttons. It's the true game design since there is a rapid power up.

One personal cheating use: Darius Gaiden. A Rapid fire controller increases my enjoyment tremendously. The built in auto fire is way too slow and the saturn controller doesn't lend well to button mashing like the NES. 

[BortLicensePlate | 652]

I have no problem with difficult games, I enjoy difficult games. But if theres one thing I cant stand its button mashing. I would either use turbo or not play the game.

[MachineCode | 159]

1 hour ago, BortLicensePlate said:

I have no problem with difficult games, I enjoy difficult games. But if theres one thing I cant stand its button mashing. I would either use turbo or not play the game.

I feel ya. My wrist hates me after a long run on 1942 in the arcade.

[ALTQQ | 87]

Yes but many games wouldn't be very fun without them. I dont dedicate a lot of time to playing tapes these days so I have nothing against it. I used to mess around with my n64 gameshark all the time.

[Sumez | 2,933]

Are they cheating? No.

Can they be used for cheating. Yes.

My primary use for Game Genie has been designing two codes that change up the game play in NES Tetris for a unique challenge, and both were actually used for official side competitions at this years CTWC. In this specific game one other popular game genie code is the one that removes the score cap of 999.999, essentially increasing the limit for competitive play. That's definitely not cheating.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Sumez

[AstralSoul | 502]

Yes it is cheating but who cares if it;s not used for competitive reasons, as long as you're having fun.

[nesmaster14 | 433]

Personally I like to play games as they're intended back in the day (save states, cheats, etc, aren't my cup of tea).  One interesting point I'd like to make is that some NES games were actually designed with turbo controllers in mind. Now, the vast majority I'd say it's a no-go if you're a purist, but what about these "Turbo Approved" games?

Thundercade (NES, 1988), in the hints section of the manual (page 13), it states:

" * Using a joystick with rapid-fire will improve your fire-power. " 

http://www.thegameisafootarcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Thundercade-Game-Manual.pdf

Abadox (NES, 1989),  page 5 of the manual states:

" If you have any NES controller which has the "turbo" feature, hold down

the turbo button for steady bursts of fire power rather than just single

shots. "

http://www.thegameisafootarcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Abadox-Game-Manual.pdf

With that said, I personally don't use turbo when I play; I think the rabid button mashing adds to the intensity/experience,  despite the side-effect of major Nintenditus. Ha.

 

[TylerBarnes | 184]

Depends on the parameters set before play regarding what you are claiming and what viewers expect. 

 

If you say, ‘I beat this famously hard game’ with no other context to your method, it is reasonable for viewers to assume that you used the same limitation present in the stock hardware and rom. So if you instead also had an advantage unspoken of, you are cheating to gain accolades and cheating yourself in thinking you compare to those people that actually beat the game unaided. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by TylerBarnes