Open Debate: Are "cheat devices" really cheating?

[RH | 4,895]

I'm sure this has been debated before, ad nauseum on other forums, but it's fun to dig it up again every now and then.  The question is, are cheat devices and RAM hack tools actually "cheating"?

The main caveat to this question is that it's specifically in regards to either single-player game play or on occasions where within multi-player games, all players agree to the memory hacks. Also, playing these games with hacks but streaming/recording them to break records is also, obviously cheating.  What I'm talking about is, is it "cheating" if you hack a game to make it easier for single, personal play?

Edited November 5, 2019 by RH

[Gloves | 11,761]

Yes. 

[RH | 4,895]

Poll added.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

Where's Patrick when you need him?

[Br81zad | 628]

I mean, it's definitely cheating... But cheating is a ton of fun in games like the GTA series

[jonebone | 1,307]

Yes it's cheating, but it doesn't necessarily take away from the enjoyment of the game.  I'd rather cheat and have fun then not cheat, get frustrated and quit.  

Save states on the NES / SNES / Genesis classic are a god send!

[Nightowljrm | 72]

Are they cheating? Yes.

Is cheating in video games okay? In single-player games that have no form of achievements or trophies or leaderboards, sure. It's your game, your experience, enjoy it how you want. As long as it doesn't affect how other people's success with the game are measured, go for it. That's just my opinion: If there are no external factors and it's just you playing the game, enjoy it how you want.

For me personally, I don't like to use cheat devices or any other form of cheating/game breaking unless I've already beaten the game. 

[Br81zad | 628]

Here's an even bigger question. Is "Big Head" mode considered a "cheat"? 

It doesn't provide any tangible advantage.

Also, what was the first game to include a "Big Head" mode?

(seriously asking, I don't have a clue)

[RH | 4,895]

To clarify the point, we all know the old ancedote, "if a tree falls in the woods and no on hears it, does it make a noise?" The obvious answer is yes because the air still vibrates which is what makes sound, but is that "noice"?

Cheating is to take a dishonest or unfair approach to achieving a goal.  So, is it "unfair" or "dishonest" to modify a single-player game to fit your preferences? The debate is more on the definition of cheating.  Yes, you're playing a game in a manner different than how it was intended, but is it "cheating" if you mod a game to make it harder?  IMHO, that doesn't make sense.

[RH | 4,895]

2 minutes ago, Br81zad said:

Here's an even bigger question. Is "Big Head" mode considered a "cheat"? 

It doesn't provide any tangible advantage.

Also, what was the first game to include a "Big Head" mode?

(seriously asking, I don't have a clue)

Not sure, but I think it might have been NBA Jam. Not an FPS (which is what I assume is what you are talking about) but NBA Jam had a "Big Head" sprite mode.

Edited November 5, 2019 by RH

[ZBomber | 54]

I guess it really depends.

As an example, I just played through Castlevania on NES last week. I did it over a couple days, and as we all know when you get a game over screen you can continue from the start of the level as many times as you want. Because of this I had to leave my NES on and waste electricity doing that (and also worry about the system shutting off because of a bad storm we had one night). If I had a device that gave me the option to do save states or suspensions at the game over screens when I'm done playing for the day then I don't consider it cheating. It didn't suddenly change the gameplay or the difficulty, it just allowed me to not have to keep my system on for 168 hours when the game took me maybe 5 hours worth of game time.

But if I used save states to reload parts of the game when I die because I didn't feel like playing through it again, then yeah I would count that as cheating.

[guillavoie | 1,208]

It all boiled down to the definition of cheating. Cheating is about dishonesty, so if you use a 'cheating devices' in order to be dishonest, then yes you're cheating. If you're using a cheating devices and you're being honest about it, you're not cheating anyone, you just gives yourself arbitrary advantages over an informal object (a video game). You can't claim you beat the game legit afterward (dishonesty), but if you say 'I beat it with this and that cheat codes', you're not really being dishonest.

If you mod a game to be more difficult, you're not 'cheating' the game, you modify it. In order to cheat with such a harder mod, you would need a context, like making your opponent play the harder version in a competition while he's not aware of it, and you compete against it with the original version.

There's a ton of loophole about this subject, which is why it is always a good ground to have a nerdy debate (special thought for Patrick M. on this one).

 

[ZeldaFan042 | 1,181]

Short answer is yes.

[mbd39 | 2,017]

It depends on how they are used. Codes that modify games in ways that don't make them easier are not cheating. Some codes make games harder. But stuff like invincibility and infinite lives is cheating period.

[arnpoly | 198]

I mean, are cheat devices cheating kind of answers the question for you right there.

I guess I don't really care if people cheat on a single-player game, as the only person they are cheating on are themselves.  If they are okay with it, why should I be bothered by it?

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

I would say yes, since you can't say you legitimately completed the game. Save states for example are useful to practice a certain stage/area in a game or try different strategies to complete the game or find ways to get the best score on your actual run.

[MeganJoanne | 365]

Yes. If entering codes or such that give one an advantage that wasn't intended as part of the game, of course it's cheating. That is if you later consider that you beat the game, especially more so that if you go around bragging that you did when you cheated your way to the end. Now if simply having fun with some of said cheats, codes, whatever, that's fine, enjoy.

I play everything on emulator now, that's all I have, so thank goodness for savestates because I rely on them for those issues like when suddenly my controller just ever so slightly comes out of the USB port and disconnects from the emulator (happens often), because most of the time the emulator even after I plug the controller back in refuses to identify it thus I have to completely go out of it and back in again, thus losing any progress, so I make sure to save every so often. I also create savestates for beginnings of stages or for every boss or major item found so that I have easy access to any part of a game at any given time I need it for whatever. But not for cheating, thus if I die I deal with it, if I lose completely I start all over again. Sometimes because of any kind of issues that could arise from a laptop from a blue screen error that forces the computer to restart or a damn update that I didn't ask for but they give me anyway and suddenly the moment I step away find everything I was working on was gone because the laptop restarted, yeah, shit like that has happened more than a few times. Savestates are a game saver. Sometimes use them as a form of a safe pause that if I were to walk away and take a break for a while, be it get something to eat, use the toilet, talk Snickers for a walk, whatever, I pause the game but also make a savestate just in case so I can guarantee that I will be able to get back to it. But if I were doing a contest or something, then I would have to the chance and risk playing the game without that saving method because if I were doing said contest I would also be recording my game, either the built in windows screen recorder or an external device like my mom's tablet.

Now thinking about this whole cheat device and cheat codes thing, there is one game of all games that I actually used a continue code in order to finish it and that is Milon's Secret Castle, and still have always been unsure of that one because the game manual gives the code which allows you to continue after losing anytime after the ground floor is cleared. I had always wondered why they didn't simply put the continue option in plain sight, but then the game itself has a lot of hidden secrets, thus the method of continuing being no different. I never considered it cheating many years ago because it was given in the manual, yet as the years progressed I got to thinking, what if I just got really good at this game and was able to beat it without that simple little button combo, but that would mean doing it without dying because you only get one life. But I've always made note of that one, used continue code, 6 deaths/continues total (or something). It's that one game of all that I'm like damn, do they really expect you to no death this!? Yes, I know it is possible given one plays a game enough, you can get damn good at it, but I've only ever played it through twice. But no deathing it is what one would have had to do if they somehow didn't have the manual back in the day nor any hint that there even was that secret continue option, unless found accidentally (it's not like enter the konami code for Contra or the quick button maneuvers you had to do with Ikari Warriors to continue)  which only requires holding left and pressing start (after the first crystal is obtained). So since we are on this topic I'm curious from others on the thoughts about Milon's Secret Castle's continue option... cheating or not? Or do they really intend the game to be ruthless like real life, one chance and game over? Should be a change to the ending at least whether using the continue option or mastering it without dying. I had considered removing it from my list many years ago just because of the fact that the continue option is hidden thus maybe or maybe not legit. Nowadays, whatever, it's one game, would hardly make a difference in my record if I kept or removed it. But am curious of other people's opinions on this.

[Splain | 2,560]

Is it cheating if you use a cheat device or save-state to practice a certain level or boss, so that you're good at it when you get there in a legitimate run?

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

Yes, but the real question is: Does it matter and does anyone really care?

As long as it isn't in a competition setting, play your games whatever way gives you the most joy. You do you.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 minutes ago, Splain said:

Is it cheating if you use a cheat device or save-state to practice a certain level or boss, so that you're good at it when you get there in a legitimate run?

Only in the context of that particular run being invalid for any kind of scoring run or "winning the game".

 

But it doesn't matter how you get the cumulative experience that lets you eventually be good at the game.

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by arch_8ngel

[barrels | 125]

3 minutes ago, Splain said:

Is it cheating if you use a cheat device or save-state to practice a certain level or boss, so that you're good at it when you get there in a legitimate run?

This just gave me dejavu of a very contentious older NA thread...

[MeganJoanne | 365]

2 minutes ago, Splain said:

Is it cheating if you use a cheat device or save-state to practice a certain level or boss, so that you're good at it when you get there in a legitimate run?

Back in the day never had that option, the best one could get were in game codes if the game had any codes useful for such a cause. Nowadays we got it so much easier, maybe we've become spoiled, soft, I dunno, but the way I see it now, using a cheat device, code or savestate for exploring or practicing, whatever, no big deal, just speeds up the process and saves one from having to repeat a stage or even the whole of a game over and over just to get good at one really tough spot or few. But we used to have to back in the day, and still do if playing on a game console minus having a Game Genie or such inserted. Long ago if a game was really friggin hard I just kept on working at it from start til game over and retry all over again until I finally beat it. Exemple, Blaster Master, one of my earlier NES games, during a rental I managed to get up to the crab boss, which was pretty good, but that is when things start to really kick up on difficulty too, and once I owned it, took me about 2 months to actually beat it the very first time, of course I was still sorta new at NES games so I was still getting my groove on, but yeah, rinse and repeat, die and try again, game over, no more continues, restart, over and over. And even after I beat it that first time it took ages before I was able to beat it again, but then after that I was already better at it and thus the game wasn't so crazy difficult. Practice makes for a better gamer, could care less how one gained the skill. Heck, you can learn a lot just from watching others play, thus giving you an advantage of what to expect before you yourself actually play through or overcome that part of a game.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Is it cheating? By definition, yes.

Does it matter? If it's a competition that excludes them, yes.

Otherwise, it's a video game. Play them how you want. It's up to you to determine if it matters.

[T-Pac | 7,513]

This reminds me of the first time I beat Abadox (my favorite NES game):

I used save states so that I could tackle the game over several days, but I only suspended the game on the (unlimited) continue screens, so it was essentially the same as "leaving the NES on overnight". I also used a turbo-fire arcade stick, but that isn't any different than using a NES Advantage aside from some tactile differences with the buttons/joystick.

Essentially, I used modern versions of "cheats" that were always available in an authentic NES playthrough. I always have a nagging feeling that beating a game like this isn't quite legit, though. It's logically sound, but lacks authenticity, I guess.

-CasualCart

[Gloves | 11,761]

1 minute ago, CasualCart said:

This reminds me of the first time I beat Abadox (my favorite NES game):

I used save states so that I could tackle the game over several days, but I only suspended the game on the (unlimited) continue screens, so it was essentially the same as "leaving the NES on overnight". I also used a turbo-fire arcade stick, but that isn't any different than using a NES Advantage aside from some tactile differences with the buttons/joystick.

Essentially, I used modern versions of "cheats" that were always available in an authentic NES playthrough. I always have a nagging feeling that beating a game like this isn't quite legit, though. It's logically sound, but lacks authenticity, I guess.

-CasualCart

Fuck yeah Abadox!