Wata to release initial pop report later this month - NES only, no seal ratings

[inasuma | 1,203]

Interesting choice to do a slow-roll release like this. How do you all feel about it? 

My personal thoughts: Why no seal ratings? That aside, I hope we get the rest of it next year. It would be awesome to actually use the matrix after 2 years of nada. 

Here's the full newsletter:

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by inasuma

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

Just got this too! Im just glad pop reports are coming... better late than never. Now I just want my games back

Edit: and they dont want people to know how many copies of Super Mario 64 are floating around out there

Edited November 11, 2021 by 3rdStrongestMole

[Gloves | 11,771]

41 minutes ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

and they dont want people to know how many copies of Super Mario 64 are floating around out there

I actually have the inside scoop on that, just please don't tell anyone else:

It's a lot.

[RH | 4,898]

I'll tell you the pop report I want to see--there back log and a decent estimation of how long your item(s) are in the queue.

[tidaldreams | 654]

Seal rating would probably be a clusterf*ck to implement. One grade would have like 6 different populations, multiplied by however many grades there are.

Agree that not being able to see the pop of 9.8 A++ really sucks. 

Also limiting it to only NES at the start is useless for me since I have almost none of those

Edited November 11, 2021 by tidaldreams

[RH | 4,898]

4 minutes ago, tidaldreams said:

Seal rating would probably be a clusterf*ck to implement. One grade would have like 6 different populations, multiplied by however many grades there are.

Agree that not being able to see the pop of 9.8 A++ really sucks. 

Also limiting it to only NES at the start is useless for me since I have almost none of those

They already did that and have those details.  In fact, some one already has a pop report with all of those details up to June, just without actual grades for all games graded.

Edited November 11, 2021 by RH

[inasuma | 1,203]

26 minutes ago, RH said:

They already did that and have those details.  In fact, some one already has a pop report with all of those details up to June, just without actual grades for all games graded.

Right. I think they're doing this to quiet the masses + get feedback on what they can improve before rolling the whole thing out. I'm being optimistic TBF.

[GPX | 1,369]

Well done WATA, you finally listened! I think this is more likely  to be by public coercion, rather than their own free will. The fact that only NES pop data is being released is a bit of a clue of their partial unwillingness to release the data at all. The slow trickling of release of the info is like giving us a present while still kicking us in the guts, is how I kind of see it.

I also think the seal data is just as important as the numbers data. There will likely to be plenty of grades 9.0 or higher, but how many NES games will grade A+ or A++? I think most of us interested in graded games would want to know that question.

Edited November 11, 2021 by GPX

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Odds on "later this month" becomes "recent setbacks will keep us from launching for a few more months"?

[Mijael | 347]

I just received it and when i first read "you have been patiently waiting" i though my games where finally coming but no.... i dont care if they move to california and i couldn't care less if they are going to release pop report. I am sending my games to CGC next year

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

4 hours ago, Gloves said:

I actually have the inside scoop on that, just please don't tell anyone else:

It's a lot.

The 9.8/A++ population, I believe, is 3 or so. I’d guess there are also more graded SMB 1 overall, but that’s just a guess. Could go either way.

Edited November 11, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

2 hours ago, RH said:

They already did that and have those details.  In fact, some one already has a pop report with all of those details up to June, just without actual grades for all games graded.

There was also no distinguishing whether they were sealed or CIB. There were like 750 SMB 3, I’d guess 2/3rds or so are CIB.

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

Well, without the sealed pop data this will not distinguish either I guess, so now that i think about it this is completely worthless  

[RH | 4,898]

18 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

There was also no distinguishing whether they were sealed or CIB. There were like 750 SMB 3, I’d guess 2/3rds or so are CIB.

There were grades for the seals, so you could generally extrapolate that box grades-seal grades = CIB grades.

The numbers don't support this perfectly, but it eas close enough for estimates.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

2 minutes ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

Well, without the sealed pop data this will not distinguish either I guess, so now that i think about it this is completely worthless  

I’m not sure it says that. It says you won’t get the seal rating, but it still might say you have, for example, 50 sealed Mario 3 at 8.0 and 20 Mario 3 at 8.0 CIB.

Edited November 12, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[Seth | 164]

I may have some insight to offer here. I authored much of the WATA-related investigative journalism that showed up in industry media outlets worldwide and led to repeated conversations between me and Deniz Kahn's rep at Goldin Solutions (the top PR firm WATA retained to defend against allegations in RETRO and in the Jobst Report). Goldin Solutions made clear to me that the top brass at WATA was following my journalism and was very unhappy about it.

More specifically, WATA was very, very aware that RETRO was not only a persistent critic of WATA not releasing pop reports but that RETRO had begun releasing extremely popular, widely read "market analyses" intended as a stop-gap until WATA began releasing pop reports. (It was debate over these very analyses that caused me to decide to leave the Unofficial WATA Games Facebook Group, which changed its by-laws to ban any link to these market analyses.)

The RETRO market reports that WATA (and its fanboys, many of whom are friends with Deniz) have been so upset about? Guess what they cover?

NES games. 

Box condition only.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions from this sequence of events. Maybe it's a coincidence, or maybe WATA grades games from many, many, many different consoles, so the decision to release only NES-game pop reports and box-condition-only data is pretty... specific. (FWIW, Deniz also knows I'm a big NES collector personally.) If you think WATA is mature enough to not be vindictive in this way... well, that makes one of you.

P.S. A less salacious explanation would be this: WATA knows that the data it's releasing is already public at a high-traffic publication (RETRO)—in fact, it's available there in much more comprehensive form than what we're about to get—so WATA isn't really "losing" anything by publishing this info.

Edited November 12, 2021 by RETRO

[tidaldreams | 654]

57 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

The 9.8/A++ population, I believe, is 3 or so. I’d guess there are also more graded SMB 1 overall, but that’s just a guess. Could go either way.

It's gotta be more than 3... there's already 2 that have come up for auction... that would leave only one left

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

8 minutes ago, tidaldreams said:

It's gotta be more than 3... there's already 2 that have come up for auction... that would leave only one left

It was definitely 2 as of the time of the 1.56 auction (Heritage even said so during the auction) and I know of one other that came about after. 

Of course someone is dumping their 9.8 right after that sale lol. The fact more have not surfaced is actually quite telling imo.

Edited November 12, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[Seth | 164]

4 minutes ago, tidaldreams said:

It's gotta be more than 3... there's already 2 that have come up for auction... that would leave only one left

I don't have seal data, but every single NES game is ranked by its availability (sealed and graded) on the market over at RETRO, as well as how many copies in near-mint condition or above are available. The research took scores and scores of hours and is being regularly updated.

If there's an NES title whose rarity in sealed and graded format you're wondering about, you can get your questions answered at RETRO. I frankly hope even more folks will check out the data, as it hurts when my head and heart when someone I respect like Greg (from GettheGreg Games) says, as he did on Tuesday, that Attack of the Killer Tomatoes (NES) is hard to find sealed and graded. Uh... no.

[AdamW | 713]

Can we get Seth his own forum to promote Retro in so I don't have to read five ads for it every time I come here? yeesh.

[Seth | 164]

Adam, that's profoundly unfair. I've been a very active contributor here, and the idea that auctioneers can come here and start entire threads to promote their services but I can't include in a very relevant comment about WATA a link to my website is silly.

I mean, talk about misplaced anger! I don't hear you upset about auctions advertising here or people selling games here or even much upset about WATA, but when someone tries to provide a service to help buyers, you complain. It's startling and unwarranted. If you don't want anyone to have access to accurate data so they can save money on sealed and graded games, pretend I and my posts (which on occasion mention my website in passing) don't exist; that's 100% your right. But don't call me out in this way when I've been a very active contributor here.

While I certainly don't need a "thank you" from you or anyone for all the journalism I did to try to push WATA to this point—all of which was free—I don't deserve for this bitterness from you to be the replacement for that.

Edited November 12, 2021 by RETRO

[AdamW | 713]

The auction people create one thread, and then occasionally answer questions and announce new auctions in it. There's an entire forum for buy/sell/trade. If you just created a Retro thread and posted your five paragraph self-horn-tooting posts there, I could happily ignore it. But nope, you're all over the rest of the threads, crowbarring another pump for your blog in every three words. Good lord. I mean, when you say "I may have some insight to offer here" it might be nice if you actually had some insight other than a bunch of self-promotion. With egregiously unnecessary boldface.

Edited November 12, 2021 by AdamW

[tidaldreams | 654]

1 hour ago, RETRO said:

I don't have seal data, but every single NES game is ranked by its availability (sealed and graded) on the market over at RETRO, as well as how many copies in near-mint condition or above are available. The research took scores and scores of hours and is being regularly updated.

If there's an NES title whose rarity in sealed and graded format you're wondering about, you can get your questions answered at RETRO. I frankly hope even more folks will check out the data, as it hurts when my head and heart when someone I respect like Greg (from GettheGreg Games) says, as he did on Tuesday, that Attack of the Killer Tomatoes (NES) is hard to find sealed and graded. Uh... no.

I think we're talking about SM64, or at least I was, but there's a whole bunch of different convos going on here I really don't know anything about NES rarities lol.

[Seth | 164]

1 minute ago, AdamW said:

The auction people create one thread, and then occasionally answer questions and announce new auctions in it. There's an entire forum for buy/sell/trade. If you just created a Retro thread and posted your five paragraph self-horn-tooting posts there, I could happily ignore it. But nope, you're all over the rest of the threads, crowbarring another pump for your blog in every three words. Good lord. I mean, when you say "I may have some insight to offer here" it might be nice if you actually had some insight other than a bunch of self-promotion. With egregiously unnecessary boldface.

This is just puerile whining, Adam. If you're getting worked up about typography, the problem is with you. If you don't find the content of my posts helpful, ignore them. That's how discussion boards have worked for the last 25 years.

[Seth | 164]

Just now, tidaldreams said:

I think we're talking about SM64, or at least I was, but there's a whole bunch of different convos going on here I really don't know anything about NES rarities lol.

Got it, sorry!