Licensed NES games that could pass for Unlicensed

[Link | 2,708]

On 11/1/2021 at 2:55 PM, ifightdragons said:

third party developers just registered subsidiary publishing shells to circumvent the strict licensing rules

I think Konami (as Ultra) was the only one to do this. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong

[ifightdragons | 234]

9 minutes ago, Link said:

I think Konami (as Ultra) was the only one to do this. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong

Atari (Tengen) comes to mind.

This is from VGA's ThePhleo:

Acclaim as LJN, Activision as Infocom, ASCII as Nexoft, Konami as Ultra, and Mindscape as The Software Toolworks.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

I don't think Acclaim ever tried to pretend LJN was a separate company, though. I think they were more after whatever licensing deals LJN could bring to the table, rather than get around Nintendo's limit.

ASCII/Nexoft only published like five games total between them, so I don't think the limit was a factor there, either.

[DorkOverlord | 681]

Bad Street Brawler

[Vectrex28 | 366]

On 11/1/2021 at 3:52 AM, ifightdragons said:

I'll throw my hat in the ring for The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends

This was literally the first game that came to my mind, haha. Other than that, the PAL exclusive Aladdin and Lion Kings are steaming piles of rubbish as well.

Can't really think of others that could fit this tho. Those crappy unlicensed games were a bit shit, but they had a vibe that no other games had (At least the Color Dreams jank, AVE's lower-tier jank is just crap)

[ifightdragons | 234]

14 minutes ago, Vectrex28 said:

This was literally the first game that came to my mind, haha. Other than that, the PAL exclusive Aladdin and Lion Kings are steaming piles of rubbish as well.

Can't really think of others that could fit this tho. Those crappy unlicensed games were a bit shit, but they had a vibe that no other games had (At least the Color Dreams jank, AVE's lower-tier jank is just crap)

Haha, yup!

The music alone in Rocky and Bullwinkle sounds like how a confused alien would relay earth music to his alien friends, upon returning from his intergalactic trip.

Edited December 17, 2021 by ifightdragons

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

On 12/11/2021 at 3:13 PM, Tulpa said:

I don't think Acclaim ever tried to pretend LJN was a separate company, though. I think they were more after whatever licensing deals LJN could bring to the table, rather than get around Nintendo's limit.

ASCII/Nexoft only published like five games total between them, so I don't think the limit was a factor there, either.

LJN was a separate company, and was a well known toy brand at the time.  Acclaim purchased them in 1990, but they made games for the NES as far back as '87.  Near as I can figure based on the info I found (mostly Wikipedia), the company was floundering, and was likely to shut down at the time of the sale.  Acclaim essentially bought them, stopped the toy production side, and continued to run them entirely as a video game publisher.  But yeah, this isn't a case of a company forming a side brand to get around Nintendo, as LJN already existed at the time Acclaim acquired them (and had for around 2 decades at that point).

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Ninja Crusaders feels like a step above a Color Dream ripoff of Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Yeah, the only company that tried to skirt the policy was Konami. Everyone else having two company names was for a different reason.

Infocom only published one NES game, Tombs and Treasure. I doubt Activision was trying to get around the limit. More likely it was because Infocom was recognized for that type of game.

Software Toolworks appears to be the parent of Mindscape. Why Miracle Piano is under the parent brand is anyone's guess, other than some of the other educational games were under Toolworks. But then, the two Mindscape Mario games are educational, so who knows with that one.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

7 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Yeah, the only company that tried to skirt the policy was Konami. Everyone else having two company names was for a different reason.

Infocom only published one NES game, Tombs and Treasure. I doubt Activision was trying to get around the limit. More likely it was because Infocom was recognized for that type of game.

Software Toolworks appears to be the parent of Mindscape. Why Miracle Piano is under the parent brand is anyone's guess, other than some of the other educational games were under Toolworks. But then, the two Mindscape Mario games are educational, so who knows with that one.

Re: Infocom - My best guess seems to be that they were trying to capitalize on the brand, releasing a game that was similar to their offerings at a time when they were releasing Infocom compilations on PC.  And like you said, Tombs & Treasure wasn't anything like Activision's usual fare, so it was probably less about skirting policies and more about marketing to Infocom's existing fans.

Software Toolworks purchased Mindscape in 1990, and it would appear that they did so in order to easily enter the NES marketplace by acquiring a team that could make games for it.  It seems they were run separately, with Mindscape publishing games as usual, and Software Toolworks putting out the edutainment releases.  Also, Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine were published under the Software Toolworks label, not the Mindscape one...but yeah, that one also wasn't about skirting regulations...Mindscape made more of the same sort of games they always did, and ST brought their brand of educational software to the NES.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:27 AM, the_wizard_666 said:

Also, Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine were published under the Software Toolworks label, not the Mindscape one...

They were, weren't they? For some reason I thought they were Mindscape.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

22 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

They were, weren't they? For some reason I thought they were Mindscape.

Honestly, I always counted the two as the same company, so you're not the only one.

[Tanooki | 4,930]

I thought they were the same entity using a different name depending on gaming vs edutainment games.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

I honestly get tired of the whole "unlicensed games suck" gag, and even the added "aside from Tengen and Camerica" bit doesn't really help much. Sure, it's fun to keep believing the lies that Nintendo told us in our youth about their seal of quality, but it has been disproven time and time again with such games as Videomation being licensed on the NES and unlicensed on the Famicom, a few of the Tengen titles, etc. 

We should be looking at this "unlicensed feeling" a bit differently, I think, and after some thought, I noticed some patterns that back up what that "feeling" actually is. The end results might surprise you, so keep reading for it.

I first gathered a list of companies and games that people on here mentioned as having "the feeling" - I excluded my own picks. The list I divided as follows:

Companies:

THQ
LJN
Mindscape
Infocom
Software Toolworks

Games:

Narc
Color a Dinosaur
Aladdin
Lion King
Conan
Swamp Thing
Rocky and Bullwinkle
Last Starfighter
X-Men
Wayne's World
James Bond Jr - best
Attack of the Killer Tomatoes
Karate Kid (I actually like this one...)
Back to the Future (and have Stockholm Syndrome towards this)
Xenophobe
Cliffhanger
WWF games
Crash Test Dummies - music
Caveman Games
Where's Waldo
Day Dreamin Davey
Bad Street Brawler
 

Outliers:

Commando
Metal Gear (poor translations)
Ninja Crusaders
 

Now I noticed a few things immediately about these choices, which hold true from all but the outliers, namely that:

A) These were all never officially released on the Famicom. Most of them were released as (period) bootleg Famiclone carts though for regions such as South America, Taiwan, Central / Eastern Europe, etc)

B) The companies producing these games were all Western companies.

 

Now let's look at the unlicensed companies / developers. A few unlicensed games had been published / developed by Japanese developers, though most of these games were developed in other parts of Asia, primarily Taiwan (and in later years, China), as well as Russia. Then there's another large group of companies coming from the West, i.e. Codemasters, Color Dreams (their in-house stuff), AGCI, Active Enterprise, etc.

So what the "unlicensed feeling"  actually is, is... the feeling and spirit of NES / Famicom games that were not developed by Japanese developers. Notice how the NES-exclusives Talespin and Darkwing Duck didn't make the list? 

You  essentially have Western developers making games in a market where 95% (or whatever the actual figure is) of games are made by Japanese developers, so of course there is going to be a different "feel" to them, and it makes sense that the feeling would be quite similar to the games that Western unlicensed developers would be making because - well, they'd share similar values, thoughts, education, gameplay opinions, etc.

Finally, to touch once more on the Taiwanese / Chinese unlicensed games that everyone loves to rip on as being garbage. There's tons of good stuff out there, and even from the Sachen catalogue, a lot of the Mahjong varieties are fun, if you actually take the time to learn to play the game properly. It's sort of like saying Japanese RPGs all suck, since you can't read them.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

3 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I honestly get tired of the whole "unlicensed games suck" gag, and even the added "aside from Tengen and Camerica" bit doesn't really help much. Sure, it's fun to keep believing the lies that Nintendo told us in our youth about their seal of quality, but it has been disproven time and time again with such games as Videomation being licensed on the NES and unlicensed on the Famicom, a few of the Tengen titles, etc. 

We should be looking at this "unlicensed feeling" a bit differently, I think, and after some thought, I noticed some patterns that back up what that "feeling" actually is. The end results might surprise you, so keep reading for it.

I first gathered a list of companies and games that people on here mentioned as having "the feeling" - I excluded my own picks. The list I divided as follows:

Companies:

THQ
LJN
Mindscape
Infocom
Software Toolworks

Games:

Narc
Color a Dinosaur
Aladdin
Lion King
Conan
Swamp Thing
Rocky and Bullwinkle
Last Starfighter
X-Men
Wayne's World
James Bond Jr - best
Attack of the Killer Tomatoes
Karate Kid (I actually like this one...)
Back to the Future (and have Stockholm Syndrome towards this)
Xenophobe
Cliffhanger
WWF games
Crash Test Dummies - music
Caveman Games
Where's Waldo
Day Dreamin Davey
Bad Street Brawler
 

Outliers:

Commando
Metal Gear (poor translations)
Ninja Crusaders
 

Now I noticed a few things immediately about these choices, which hold true from all but the outliers, namely that:

A) These were all never officially released on the Famicom. Most of them were released as (period) bootleg Famiclone carts though for regions such as South America, Taiwan, Central / Eastern Europe, etc)

B) The companies producing these games were all Western companies.

 

Now let's look at the unlicensed companies / developers. A few unlicensed games had been published / developed by Japanese developers, though most of these games were developed in other parts of Asia, primarily Taiwan (and in later years, China), as well as Russia. Then there's another large group of companies coming from the West, i.e. Codemasters, Color Dreams (their in-house stuff), AGCI, Active Enterprise, etc.

So what the "unlicensed feeling"  actually is, is... the feeling and spirit of NES / Famicom games that were not developed by Japanese developers. Notice how the NES-exclusives Talespin and Darkwing Duck didn't make the list? 

You  essentially have Western developers making games in a market where 95% (or whatever the actual figure is) of games are made by Japanese developers, so of course there is going to be a different "feel" to them, and it makes sense that the feeling would be quite similar to the games that Western unlicensed developers would be making because - well, they'd share similar values, thoughts, education, gameplay opinions, etc.

Finally, to touch once more on the Taiwanese / Chinese unlicensed games that everyone loves to rip on as being garbage. There's tons of good stuff out there, and even from the Sachen catalogue, a lot of the Mahjong varieties are fun, if you actually take the time to learn to play the game properly. It's sort of like saying Japanese RPGs all suck, since you can't read them.

That...damn dude, I think you're onto something!  You could even extend further to some objectively "good" games...would Snake's Revenge get the hate it does if it were developed in Japan?  How about Contra Force?  In fairness, developers outside Japan would have had a harder time with the Famicom/NES in general due to the head-start the Japanese had with it.  Many of them compared to early Japanese games aren't really that bad, but pale in comparison to their contemporary Eastern counterparts.  If  you compare something like The Last Starfighter to Raid on Bungeling Bay, I mean, it's still bad, but it's closer comparatively than something like Final Mission (S.C.A.T.), which released in Japan around the same time as Last Starfighter in America.  Raid on Bungeling Bay was released in Japan in '85, a full five years prior to Last Starfighter.  There's obviously other factors too, but the divide between western and eastern developers is something that really hasn't been explored much (to my knowledge anyway), and definitely has merit when brought up in this context...

[Tanooki | 4,930]

I've seen Dave go on about this before, and that's also and I'm thinking back many years into nearly a decade ago on private messages with him on old NA too.  He isn't just onto something, I really think he nailed it pretty much.

The stuff people dump on, if you erase from my, your, anyones tunnel vision of what is crap vs good isn't so much a question of it being licensed or not, but not just WHO made it but WHERE are they from and WHAT are their values in game making.  That's where you see an underlying trend that blurs the line between unlicensed drek, unlicensed good stuff, then the licensed good bad and ugly.  It's down ultimately to the developers/region vs the others developers/region.

Since Tengen for one was getting a pass, think about it...why?  It's an American company sure, but what are the games we give them a pass on largely?  Japanese.  SEGA=Afterburner, Shinobi, Fantasy Zone.  Namco=The 'Pac' games, Rolling Thunder, RBI Baseball aka Famista.  Yet what Tengen games get kind of dumped on more?  The western ones, the screwball Gauntlet with creative license, IJ Temple of Doom, Skull n Crossbones, etc.  It's an interesting thing to think about.

But if you're someone with western gaming values and western tastes on par or above Japanese stuff, then stuff people scoff at like Gauntlet and Indy, or perhaps say Kings Quest 5 from Konami that was US sold/developed only you'll enjoy those for what they are.  Same could be said from Lucas one shot with Maniac Mansion that's fanboying aside a love/hate thing by design really.  Western games have a feel and difference to them largely than to Japanese stuff, and those studios being dumped on in his list they fit that bill, they similarly have that stiff western design or rules to play whether it's odd platforming choices, rigid arcade design, WRPG quirkiness, etc.  I've played some of those unlicensed so called bonafied turds and I've found some fun in bursts there too.

 

I also saw Contra Force come up, so that one is a pass, does it really count?  It was released in Japan under its real name, Contra got slapped on it for the western market really.  It's a good Japanese game, not just a questionably western only overpriced oddity.

 

I'd dare say I'd love to see this really hashed out post after post instead of just crapping on unlicensed games as it's just not that black and white, it's more diverse.  Enough research with Dave there and a few others, we could write a solid cite worthy(by future readers) type chunk of research paper on this matter that would probably stick.  This isn't a shallow issue, this is something real, global, and along borders more than just the line of Nintendo seal or not.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I also saw Contra Force come up, so that one is a pass, does it really count?  It was released in Japan under its real name, Contra got slapped on it for the western market really.  It's a good Japanese game, not just a questionably western only overpriced oddity.

You mean Arc Hound?  Yeah, that never actually got released...

[fcgamer | 4,719]

10 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Since Tengen for one was getting a pass, think about it...why?  It's an American company sure, but what are the games we give them a pass on largely?  Japanese.  SEGA=Afterburner, Shinobi, Fantasy Zone.  Namco=The 'Pac' games, Rolling Thunder, RBI Baseball aka Famista.  Yet what Tengen games get kind of dumped on more?  The western ones, the screwball Gauntlet with creative license, IJ Temple of Doom, Skull n Crossbones, etc.  It's an interesting thing to think about.

My mind is blown! I didn't even think about that when I was typing the post above, but you're right, those all were games that had Japanese ties.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

10 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'd dare say I'd love to see this really hashed out post after post instead of just crapping on unlicensed games as it's just not that black and white, it's more diverse.  Enough research with Dave there and a few others, we could write a solid cite worthy(by future readers) type chunk of research paper on this matter that would probably stick.  This isn't a shallow issue, this is something real, global, and along borders more than just the line of Nintendo seal or not.

When I initially started reading down through the games, I started becoming quite curious as I had noticed the pattern of most of the games mentioned being Western-developed. I also find the whole thing to be fascinating.

 

On a different note, I have an Argentinian gaming buddy (remember some of these NES exclusives were bootlegged as Famiclone carts back then) who LOVES some of these games, as well as the Japanese games. I remember he was ranting and raving over Darkman one time, IIRC, I barely got two minutes into it before shutting the thing down. It seems maybe there was a bit of a middle ground there in terms of expectation, though its just one example.

[Tanooki | 4,930]

@the_wizard_666 Yes that's it, and true, but it was intended for release there, and is a Japanese made game that oddly they rescued with a fake name of Contra for the US market.

@fcgamer I wondered given your wording if you had considered the unique position of Tengen and the slice of the blade through the release list, to one side the Japanese games they got permission to US publish, and then the english western made stuff because we know well which titles get the appreciation and which do not.

It is fascinating and I think it says a lot of what peoples tastes were then and still persistently now as we get new people born into gaming each year that still somehow fall back on these decades old games their parents enjoyed and they don't run to play the western stuff, they run to play the varied Japanese releases largely.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

So I'm looking here and:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/rankings?platform=41&genre=0&list_type=rate&view_type=0&dlc=0&min_votes=1

The only basically western games in the entire top 200 of the NES/Famicom seem to be Battle Kid (modern homebrew so not really what we're looking for), Maniac Mansion, Pirates, Ultima IV, RC Pro-Am II, Micro Machines, Super Turrican, Galaxy 5000, Deja Vu, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Rampart, Trog, Spiritual Warfare (WISDOM TREE!?), Rescue: The Embassy Mission, Nightshade, and Battletoads.

now gamefaqs is gonna gamefaqs but even then, looks like NES-era western developers just sucked.

[Tanooki | 4,930]

7 hours ago, MagusSmurf said:

So I'm looking here and:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/rankings?platform=41&genre=0&list_type=rate&view_type=0&dlc=0&min_votes=1

The only basically western games in the entire top 200 of the NES/Famicom seem to be Battle Kid (modern homebrew so not really what we're looking for), Maniac Mansion, Pirates, Ultima IV, RC Pro-Am II, Micro Machines, Super Turrican, Galaxy 5000, Deja Vu, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Rampart, Trog, Spiritual Warfare (WISDOM TREE!?), Rescue: The Embassy Mission, Nightshade, and Battletoads.

now gamefaqs is gonna gamefaqs but even then, looks like NES-era western developers just sucked.

Well largely perhaps they did.  Think pretty hard on it, go over every bit of what came out from the US/Euro side of things, and it gets kind of thin.  Sad that Kings Quest V got the brush off as it's very very well done and oddly KHANs LSL1 port if they threw in homebrew got ignored why now?  Klax is great as is Tengen Tetris, strange they're not up there.  RESCUE is fantastic, I've owned it on PC originally then NES and it's very well done.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Spiritual Warfare is a decent adventure game. You get upgraded weapons, items, there are places to explore, the different areas look and feel different, and all around it feels competent. It's no Zelda or Crystalis, but it's by far the deepest and best Wisdom Tree game. 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

9 hours ago, MagusSmurf said:

now gamefaqs is gonna gamefaqs but even then, looks like NES-era western developers just sucked.

I wouldn't say that.  I would say that the style western-developed games seem to have taken were simply not the games that console players of the day wanted to play.  Western games were all the rage in the PC market, and indeed many of them were ports of PC games.  Home computers were huge in Europe, where many of those development houses were located, and where most western developers cut their teeth.  They simply made the games they always did, that were popular in the market they were accustomed to serving.