austin532 | 467 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 So what is the definitive console version of Mega Man 8 and Mega Man X4? Both were released on Sega Saturn and Playstation so to give a fair analysis I'd say it comes down to 4 things: - Graphics - Sound - Control - Content I'm sure this has been done before on other forums but I'd still like to hear everyone's opinion about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,887 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Well, it only comes down to those four factors if they only differ between the two versions, and if nothing else differs either. I'm not sure what you want for a more subjective discussion, but it's definitely something that's been covered extensively in other places, and as far as I recall people tend to give points to the Saturn version of MM8, while MMX4 comes out on top on PlayStation. I've only played the PlayStation version of either of them though, and both of those were perfectly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin532 | 467 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 Comparing the two, yes I'd say the Saturn version of 8 is better. It sounds better, looks better, and has extra content. I think I do prefer the controls on PS1 though. For X4, there is very little difference. It sounds the same, looks nearly the same, and has the same content. Again I think the PS1 controls are a little bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,704 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 There’s also Megaman/ MMX Collection on PS2/Gamecube, and Megaman/ MMX Legacy Collection on Switch/PS4. Both of these collections used the PlayStation versions. I believe the PlayStation versions are considered to be the definitive versions as they were the versions originally developed by the developer. Even though the Saturn versions had additional content (and in MM8 the extra content is significant), they were ports, not the original versions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaMan52 | 2,423 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 As far as I know, there's no definitive version of Mega Man X4. The PlayStation version has better transparency effects (noticeable at the beginning of the opening stage), less compression in the FMV's, and slightly better controls. The Saturn version has extra visual effects in Magma Dragoon's stage, looping music, and the music in the second part of Frost Walrus's stage has an extra bit at the beginning. I'm fine with the PlayStation versions (specifically my original PS1 copy of Mega Man 8 that I've had since 2000 or so, and Mega Man X Collection for GameCube), though I used to also have the Saturn version of Mega Man 8 in 2004/2005 (when it cost between $40-$60) and really liked the extra content (especially Cutman and Woodman). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin532 | 467 Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 14 hours ago, phart010 said: I believe the PlayStation versions are considered to be the definitive versions as they were the versions originally developed by the developer. Even though the Saturn versions had additional content (and in MM8 the extra content is significant), they were ports, not the original versions. Do we know this for sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,704 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 6 hours ago, austin532 said: Do we know this for sure? Now that you ask, I just went off and spent a while reading up on this. Apparently both games were developed simultaneously on Saturn and PSX. I was mistaken, sorry for the misinfo. I got this story mixed up with the Castlevania story. Still, the collections contain the PSX version. Probably mainly because this is the version that sold better so it’s what majority of people remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erac | 78 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Just like with Piko's decision on which ROM to use on steam, the collections likely chose PS1 because of available emulators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin532 | 467 Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 Both games have traits of Saturn being the lead system. There is pixel dithering in the PS1 versions when the PS1 was capable of better transparencies. The Saturn versions have some extra animations while the PS1 versions do not most likely to having less RAM and had to be removed. Most of the other 2D Capcom games were developed on Saturn first and then ported over to PS1 so the same most likely applies to MM8/MMX4 as well. The Saturn was just better at 2D. I grew up with the PS1 versions so I have no bias towards the Saturn versions but there are several clues that point to Saturn being the lead system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,237 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 That is beyond stupid that PS1 at the time discouraged 2D sidescrollers and only "allowed" 8/X4 onto the PS1 if Capcom agreed to also do a 3D MegaMan (which would become Legends). I mean can you imagine if Sony's anti-2D bias caused 8/X4 to not come on the PS1 at all? I mean to think I'd have to buy a whole another console (Saturn) just for those two games? It just wouldn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,704 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Estil said: That is beyond stupid that PS1 at the time discouraged 2D sidescrollers and only "allowed" 8/X4 onto the PS1 if Capcom agreed to also do a 3D MegaMan (which would become Legends). I mean can you imagine if Sony's anti-2D bias caused 8/X4 to not come on the PS1 at all? I mean to think I'd have to buy a whole another console (Saturn) just for those two games? It just wouldn't seem right. Sega of America (Bernie Stolar) also discouraged 2D releases for the Saturn. That’s why the American library of Saturn games is so much smaller than the Japanese. They weren’t interested in licensing 2D. Megaman just lucked out. Not fully supporting 2D titles was probably a massive beat down to Saturn and then he did the death blow by announcing that Saturn was dead before Dreamcast was even ready. Edited October 15, 2021 by phart010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMR | 516 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 It just goes to show how big of a deal Capcom was back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,887 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, austin532 said: Most of the other 2D Capcom games were developed on Saturn first and then ported over to PS1 Which other 2D Capcom games exist on those platforms outside of Mega Man games and arcade ports? Edited October 15, 2021 by Sumez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,887 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 7 hours ago, Estil said: That is beyond stupid that PS1 at the time discouraged 2D sidescrollers and only "allowed" 8/X4 onto the PS1 if Capcom agreed to also do a 3D MegaMan (which would become Legends). I mean can you imagine if Sony's anti-2D bias caused 8/X4 to not come on the PS1 at all? What's even more stupid is that Sony's anti-2D bias has persisted to this day, making it almost impossible for 2D developers to publish games on their platforms unless they already have a presence on other platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin532 | 467 Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Sumez said: Which other 2D Capcom games exist on those platforms outside of Mega Man games and arcade ports? That's what I mean by 2D games. The arcade ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,887 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Those were definitely not developed for Saturn first, they were pretty much all made for CPS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,237 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Sumez said: What's even more stupid is that Sony's anti-2D bias has persisted to this day, making it almost impossible for 2D developers to publish games on their platforms unless they already have a presence on other platforms. But I thought lately we had quite a 2D renaissance over the past several years? And I guess in the 6th gen it was thought that 2D games were the GBA's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,237 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 10 hours ago, CMR said: It just goes to show how big of a deal Capcom was back then. Yeah and then they went almost all of the 2010s decade without ONE new MegaMan game when the previous two decades often had one of the same series come out annually (such as 2001-06 Battle Network) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,704 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Estil said: Yeah and then they went almost all of the 2010s decade without ONE new MegaMan game when the previous two decades often had one of the same series come out annually (such as 2001-06 Battle Network) Its because Keiji Inafune left Capcom and they didn’t know what to do with the series without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,237 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, phart010 said: Its because Keiji Inafune left Capcom and they didn’t know what to do with the series without him I'll never forgive Crapcom for quitting on MegaMan GBA Collection and Legends 3. As a certain former governor would say, they'd never make it as a Navy SEAL or a Frogman because if you say the words "I quit!", you're gone! In both cases they made a commitment to their fans (including what, a ten page article in one of the gaming magazines for Legends 3?) and then when the going gets a little too tough, they quit!? Maybe Keiji got tired of Crapcom quitting on him. Quitters NEVER win. Winners NEVER quit. And winners don't use drugs. Edited October 15, 2021 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,704 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, Estil said: I'll never forgive Crapcom for quitting on MegaMan GBA Collection and Legends 3. As a certain former governor would say, they'd never make it as a Navy SEAL or a Frogman because if you say the words "I quit!", you're gone! In both cases they made a commitment to their fans (including what, a ten page article in one of the gaming magazines for Legends 3?) and then when the going gets a little too tough, they quit!? Maybe Keiji got tired of Crapcom quitting on him. Quitters NEVER win. Winners NEVER quit. And winners don't use drugs. Yea me too, I’ll never forgive them. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll be over here playing Megaman 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,237 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, phart010 said: Yea me too, I’ll never forgive them. Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll be over here playing Megaman 11 Let's just say I didn't get very excited when that was announced because I figured they'd just quit on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj_robot | 530 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 18 hours ago, Estil said: That is beyond stupid that PS1 at the time discouraged 2D sidescrollers and only "allowed" 8/X4 onto the PS1 if Capcom agreed to also do a 3D MegaMan (which would become Legends). I mean can you imagine if Sony's anti-2D bias caused 8/X4 to not come on the PS1 at all? I mean to think I'd have to buy a whole another console (Saturn) just for those two games? It just wouldn't seem right. I know this will be a super unpopular stance here, but I totally understand why they went that way. At the time, 3D was absolutely the hot ticket. If you're expecting people to shell out hundreds of dollars for a new console, you have to give them a reason. When the 16-bit consoles had loads of great (and some truly elite) 2D games coming out in '95 (DKC 2, Yoshi's Island, Chrono Trigger, Phantasy Star IV, Ristar, Vectorman, NBA Jam: TE, etc.), it made sense to put all their efforts into making great games that just wouldn't have been possible on older consoles. Ridge Racer, Tekken, Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Wipeout, Air Combat, Doom, Toshinden, etc. Those games may not have all been 10/10's, but they were new experiences that weren't previously possible on consoles... and those are precisely the games that made the PlayStation take off. Yeah, Rayman, Gex, and some others were there, but if those kinds of games were ALL the PS1 had to offer at launch, then honestly we would have all just stuck with the SNES. Anyway, once PS1 gained market domination, they started letting 2D games trickle in, and the PS1 library had tons of great 2D stuff by the end. So I have no I'll will towards them for that choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,704 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 51 minutes ago, cj_robot said: I know this will be a super unpopular stance here, but I totally understand why they went that way. At the time, 3D was absolutely the hot ticket. If you're expecting people to shell out hundreds of dollars for a new console, you have to give them a reason. When the 16-bit consoles had loads of great (and some truly elite) 2D games coming out in '95 (DKC 2, Yoshi's Island, Chrono Trigger, Phantasy Star IV, Ristar, Vectorman, NBA Jam: TE, etc.), it made sense to put all their efforts into making great games that just wouldn't have been possible on older consoles. Ridge Racer, Tekken, Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Wipeout, Air Combat, Doom, Toshinden, etc. Those games may not have all been 10/10's, but they were new experiences that weren't previously possible on consoles... and those are precisely the games that made the PlayStation take off. Yeah, Rayman, Gex, and some others were there, but if those kinds of games were ALL the PS1 had to offer at launch, then honestly we would have all just stuck with the SNES. Anyway, once PS1 gained market domination, they started letting 2D games trickle in, and the PS1 library had tons of great 2D stuff by the end. So I have no I'll will towards them for that choice. At least PlayStation allowed the 2D games to eventually trickle in. Sega of America denied North America the Saturn licensing to a whole bunch of RPG’s and 2D games. I don’t know if this is the reason Saturn did well in Japan but not in America, but it’s plausible. For a console to be successful, it depends heavily on the consoles success in the North American market. Saturn dying in North America meant Saturn died everywhere including Japan. It makes me wonder if there were any Saturn games that were in development or planned that died with the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,237 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, phart010 said: At least PlayStation allowed the 2D games to eventually trickle in. Sega of America denied North America the Saturn licensing to a whole bunch of RPG’s and 2D games. I don’t know if this is the reason Saturn did well in Japan but not in America, but it’s plausible. For a console to be successful, it depends heavily on the consoles success in the North American market. Saturn dying in North America meant Saturn died everywhere including Japan. It makes me wonder if there were any Saturn games that were in development or planned that died with the system. What killed the Saturn more than anything was when they not only did that surprise early launch but only for what, four or so retailers? And they didn't think (as my late wife would say, they didn't think) the other retailers would feel cheated and decide to no longer stock Sega stuff? As a result they pretty much handed Nintendo the rest of the 16-bit/4th gen on a silver platter...and there was still 2-3 good years left for it; even longer if you're in Japan (MegaMan & Bass, Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean just to name a few). And then of course we all know the number heard 'round the E3/gaming world that was for all intents and purposes check and mate for Saturn: Edited October 15, 2021 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now