What is - OBJECTIVELY - the best NES / Famicom game?

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

2 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

kirby is pretty good but at the same time it blows.

Kirby sucks and blows at the same time

But naw, Kirby's Adventure, while technically not terrible, just can't touch SMB3 as far as the listed criteria.  While it may exceed in terms of graphics, music, etc, it falls far short in terms of marketability, legacy, and historical significance. 

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

1 minute ago, OptOut said:

Both blowing AND sucking are integral to the Kirby gameplay experience, yes! 

[OptOut | 8,883]

1 minute ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Kirby sucks and blows at the same time

But naw, Kirby's Adventure, while technically not terrible, just can't touch SMB3 as far as the listed criteria.  While it may exceed in terms of graphics, music, etc, it falls far short in terms of marketability, legacy, and historical significance. 

Wait, I thought we were supposed to be talking like "objectively" right? That really should be focused only on the technical merits of the game, surely?

Marketability, legacy and historical significance seem way more in the "subjective" category to me.

I'm not even saying that Kirby's Adventure is like a more FUN game than SMB3, but just like technically speaking I'd put it ahead.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

11 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Wait, I thought we were supposed to be talking like "objectively" right? That really should be focused only on the technical merits of the game, surely?

Marketability, legacy and historical significance seem way more in the "subjective" category to me.

I'm not even saying that Kirby's Adventure is like a more FUN game than SMB3, but just like technically speaking I'd put it ahead.

Those were all listed as the criteria in the original post.  So based on the question posed in the thread, they count.  And thus Kirby would not touch SMB3.

Also, the world done gone crazy...here I am discussing the technical superiority of my personal least favourite game of all time...never thought this day would come...

 

[Tulpa | 3,491]

1 hour ago, Nintegageo said:

With your criteria it's SMB3 however it should have had a freaking save feature which is why I wouldn't personally place the game #1. I know we have some psycho on here who claims the no saves improved the game and warp whistles are just as good though they are not. It's a great game though that 1 thing.. grr 

Yeah, I've never understood their rationalizations for that. You can still have warp whistles, and you can still play it without saving if that's what you want to do. Claiming that it "improves" the game just sounds like a desperate attempt to not admit the game has a flaw.

It's still a great game, possibly the best on the system, but come on.

[GPX | 1,369]

Using some objective measures such as: 

- most well-known title

- most perfect blend of graphics, sounds, gameplay and programming technicalities for its time, relative to other publications of the same year

- most priciest game sold on online auction sites

- most probability of being market manipulated 

Answer: Mario Bros 1

[OptOut | 8,883]

Just now, the_wizard_666 said:

Those were all listed as the criteria in the original post.  So based on the question posed in the thread, they count.  And thus Kirby would not touch SMB3.

Also, the world done gone crazy...here I am discussing the technical superiority of my personal least favourite game of all time...never thought this day would come...

 

I mean, Kirby is no slouch in those departments either, especially if we were to compare to another technically proficient game, such as Little Samson, which I would also say is technically more proficient than SMB3.

We do have to remember that SMB3 was programmed in 1988, and the NES was going strong into the 90's there ARE greater technical heights on the system. Such as Mario is Missing, of course.

 

But yeah, CC has really set this topic up to be a one-sided conversation because no game can come close to Mario 3 given ALL the requirements of the topic.

Bad @CasualCart, BAD!!! 

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

4 minutes ago, GPX said:

Using some objective measures such as: 

- most well-known title

- most perfect blend of graphics, sounds, gameplay and programming technicalities for its time, relative to other publications of the same year

- most priciest game sold on online auction sites

- most probability of being market manipulated 

Answer: Mario Bros 1

what are the wata 9.8 a++ smb3 going for? if its under smb and sm64 its a steal. oh what about the lefties?

Edited October 13, 2021 by docile tapeworm

[GPX | 1,369]

2 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

what are the wata 9.8 a++ smb3 going for? if its under smb and sm64 its a steal

I have no idea what any of those hypothetical 9.8A++ are going for. But I guess my point with the tongue-in-cheek response,  is that the priciest is one objective measure of popularity and general appreciation.

[JamesRobot | 5,793]

Mega Man 2.  Duh!

[Tanooki | 4,932]

The problem is CC here added in feelings despite saying in bold on the title OBJECTIVELY.

By adding in perceived things like aesthetics, appeal, etc(etc leaves it an open book to opinion more than the rest) there's just no way not to vote for Super Mario Bros 3.  The very topic title vs half that setup post is an utter contradiction of itself.

 

But like I said, and what optout there added to, Kirby's Adventure objectively speaking, if you remove the fuzzy feelings out of the equation and stick to the capabilities of the game, variety, levels of audio visual push it uses, various other bells and whistles (like saving progress as it's a long game too) Kirby would come out on top.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

Gimmick! must be up there for sound and mechanics.

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

51 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

variety, levels of audio visual push it uses, various other bells and whistles (like saving progress as it's a long game too) Kirby would come out on top.

the title itself is a...conundrum "best".

what we can determine are the points you have mentioned. does that make it the "best" game?

Edited October 13, 2021 by docile tapeworm

[ifightdragons | 234]

Personal answer: Mega Man 5

"Objective" answer: Super Mario Bros. 3

[DarkTone | 984]

This indie game. 

 

[Gloves | 11,771]

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

the title itself is a...conundrum "best".

what we can determine are the points you have mentioned. does that make it the "best" game?

The thread is clear - given a set of criterium on objective and (at least relatively) measurable statistics, which NES/Famicom game is best? 

There CAN be an objective best to typically subjective matters when guidelines for measurement are provided. 

Simple science. 

[OptOut | 8,883]

48 minutes ago, Gloves said:

The thread is clear - given a set of criterium on objective and (at least relatively) measurable statistics, which NES/Famicom game is best? 

There CAN be an objective best to typically subjective matters when guidelines for measurement are provided. 

Simple science. 

Yeah, but he might have well included  "title containing the number 3 and the word Bros." in his list of criteria! There's zero room for discussion! 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'd like to continue discussing how little there is for us to discuss. 

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,072]

Well, if we're loking at sales numbers then SMB comes ahead with over 40 million units sold whereas SMB 3 "only" sold 18 million copies. Source

You could even argue that SMB was much more of a game changer than any of its successors, because they basically just built on the previous game and maybe just added different characters or power up and maybe an overworld. But the foundation has been laid with the original SMB and it terms of historical significance, legacy an marketability (it was a launch game and the first Mario game that resembles modern Mario games) it probably outshines anything else.

In terms of historical significance and legacy I would probably also throw The Legend of Zelda into the ring as a close second, because I think this game also changed gaming forever. Sure, like SMB it wasn't the first game of its kind in the genre and there were Action Adventure / Action RPGs before and after tLoZ, but none of those hold a candle to Zelda, not even remotely. Try playing The Tower of Druaga nowadays, especially without a guide. Ugh! Or look at Hydlide Special or The Adventure of Valkyrie. I personally like both games, but in terms of playability and content they're far inferior to tLoZ. You'd have to wait years for a game to even come close, i.e. Deadly Towers. I'm just kidding, I meant to say Crystalis.

I think that Zelda also extended beyond its own genre and influenced other action-based games to include light role-playing game elements as well, be it from a top-down perspective or side view. The second quest was also an ingenious idea since it improved replayability and a higher difficulty. Nowadays it's pretty standard for a game to have some sort of new game plus, but even then you're usually just going through the same game again. Meanwhile Zelda offered an almost completely new experience. Maybe this even inspired randomizers to some extent?

Anyway, I think that both SMB and tLoZ are complete game changers not just within their own little genres, but in terms of gaming as a medium. Sure, they're technically not the best nor the most asthetic games (although you could argue that they at least have a good and consistent style), but at least SMB was the best game you could possibly have created on the base famicom console. It didn't need any enhancement chips or a save function to be playable and fun and even Zelda wasn't possible on the base console and needed the Disk System addon, but still worked without all the different mapper chips, which are kind of cheating anyways.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

Answer: Mega Man 2 (aka Rockman 2)

Objective Answer: Dragon Warrior IV (aka Dragon Quest IV)

That is both the long, and short, answer from me. Now if you do not mind, I have to debate if I can find the money to have my recent acquisitions graded.... Or.... If I should budget and just order slider cases. 

[Sumez | 2,935]

SMB3 is the obvious answer based on those criteria, but if we didn't need to factor in legacy, then (Mr.) Gimmick is clearly number one.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sumez

[T-Pac | 7,532]

@OptOut @Tanooki @docile tapeworm- I’m torn.

One one hand, you guys are totally right. My holistic approach to ‘objective’ ranking introduces too many ‘subjective’ standards. Things like popularity and aesthetics are heavily rooted in personal bias, after all.

But on the other hand, a game is more than just gameplay. Its audiovisuals, branding, and marketability are integral to what it is and how the world perceives it. Without making broader considerations, we’d have to whittle a game down to ones and zeroes to determine it’s merit (which would, in turn, fall flat in finding what makes something ‘the best’).

My final verdict: there is no such thing as objectivity and I regret making this thread haha.

(Also, to say I posed the question specifically for Super Mario Bros 3 is untrue - I actually made this thread with Tetris in mind…)

-CasualCart

[OptOut | 8,883]

4 minutes ago, CasualCart said:

@OptOut @Tanooki @docile tapeworm- I’m torn.

One one hand, you guys are totally right. My holistic approach to ‘objective’ ranking introduces too many ‘subjective’ standards. Things like popularity and aesthetics are heavily rooted in personal bias, after all.

But on the other hand, a game is more than just gameplay. Its audiovisuals, branding, and marketability are integral to what it is and how the world perceives it. Without making broader considerations, we’d have to whittle a game down to ones and zeroes to determine it’s merit (which would, in turn, fall flat in finding what makes something ‘the best’).

My final verdict: there is no such thing as objectivity and I regret making this thread haha.

(Also, to say I posed the question specifically for Super Mario Bros 3 is untrue - I actually made this thread with Tetris in mind…)

-CasualCart

[Sumez | 2,935]

As a massive Tetris fantatic, I'd never consider the NES version of Tetris the objectively best of anything.  It's hilariously broken in so many ways, it's very clear the programmers had no idea what works for the game.
The fact that it's balanced so well competitively was definitely a fluke, and even then to truly give it that edge you still need to hack the game.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sumez

[OptOut | 8,883]

35 minutes ago, Sumez said:

As a massive Tetris fantatic, I'd never consider the NES version of Tetris the objectively best of anything.  It's hilariously broken in so many ways, it's very clear the programmers had no idea what works for the game.
The fact that it's balanced so well competitively was definitely a fluke, and even then to truly give it that edge you still need to hack the game.  

Agreed! NES Tetris isn't even the best Tetris game on NES! 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

8 hours ago, GPX said:

Using some objective measures such as: 

- most well-known title

- most perfect blend of graphics, sounds, gameplay and programming technicalities for its time, relative to other publications of the same year

- most priciest game sold on online auction sites

- most probability of being market manipulated 

Answer: Mario Bros 1

This guy gets it!

Edited October 13, 2021 by Bearcat-Doug