Heritage Auctions Thread

[AdamW | 713]

you'd think, right? but logic left the room a long time ago around here apparently...

[Code Monkey | 2,005]

2 hours ago, AdamW said:

Looks like the person who bought a Pokemon Blue for $10,800 at the last HA auction is trying to flip it on eBay for C$35k:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284290560104

seems odd to buy it from the US to Canada and either pay or run the risk of avoiding a bunch of tax, only to flip it to a probably heavily American buyer pool. Why not just keep it in the US the whole time? OK, they're a long way north of the border, but you'd think someone doing this sort of thing as a business could come up with some sort of arrangement to have a US location...

Why would anyone care where it's located?

[AdamW | 713]

31 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Why would anyone care where it's located?

Tax. You transfer a high value item across an international border, someone wants a piece.

(Also customs does occasionally open sealed items, at least there are horror stories...)

edit: if you just meant "why not just leave it in one place and transfer notional ownership for speculation purposes?", sure, I agree - that's sorta what I meant, as the flipper why bother shipping it to Canada in the first place, just get HA to stick it in a warehouse or something

Edited May 11, 2021 by AdamW

[Frost271 | 22]

$17k Mega Man 6 9.8 A+ April 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/mega-man-6-wata-98-a-sealed-nes-nintendo-1993-usa/a/7242-93020.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

$5k Mega Man 6 9.4 A+ May

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/mega-man-6-wata-94-a-sealed-oval-soq-r-nes-nintendo-1994-usa/a/312119-67039.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|1

Very interesting price difference here. I noticed that the April one says “Nintendo Version” on label variant even though they are both USA code. 

Anyone know what that means?

In doing research, I saw there were two cart variants on this title. One label is purple with Capcom on it where as this wasn’t a Capcom release.  The other cart did not have Capcom and came with label similar to cover - red/white. I’m assuming there might have been a recall on first prints runs or something where they had to remove the Capcom logo.  I attached a picture of the carts  

Can anyone confirm this theory?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Frost271

[Code Monkey | 2,005]

23 minutes ago, Frost271 said:

$17k Mega Man 6 9.8 A+ April 

$5k Mega Man 6 9.4 A+ May

Very interesting price difference here. I noticed that the April one says “Nintendo Version” on label variant even though they are both USA code. 

Anyone know what that means?

In doing research, I saw there were two cart variants on this title. One label is purple with Capcom on it where as this wasn’t a Capcom release.  The other cart did not have Capcom and came with label similar to cover - red/white. I’m assuming there might have been a recall on first prints runs or something where they had to remove the Capcom logo  

Can anyone confirm this theory and also know which is which and how you can tell on the sealed box? 

Those are both Nintendo (-USA-1) variants, only one is noted on the label. You're right about there being 2 variants but it's not just the cartridge that has the purple border, the box has it as well.

 

[Frost271 | 22]

29 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Those are both Nintendo (-USA-1) variants, only one is noted on the label. You're right about there being 2 variants but it's not just the cartridge that has the purple border, the box has it as well.

 

Oh wow. Thats a different box!  The Wata labels show two different variants and NO purple borders on either sealed box. Past sales show same thing so I don't think its a miss-label. Was there a third print run?  You or anyone know the story behind this?   Which variant was first print?  How long that print run was?

I think your box with Capcom on it would be the first print run. 
 

Something like (wild guess here):

First Print: Capcom Purple box; Capcom Labeled Carts

Second Print: New box “Nintendo Version” (new box but Capcom labeled left over carts?)

Third Print: New Box New Labeled carts w/o Capcom

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Frost271

[Code Monkey | 2,005]

8 minutes ago, Frost271 said:

You or anyone know the story behind this?   Which variant was first print?  How long that print run was?

It is pretty well documented in many threads here. The purple border has box, manual and cartridge with the -USA (non -1) product code which means it would have technically been first because the borderless variant have all -USA-1 codes on box, manual and cartridge.

That's one theory but the quantity of known examples is so low that some people think it was never officially released and these are just sample games that weren't supposed to go to retail. Also every example known has been found or originated in South America so there's another theory that Nintendo decided not to sell them here and dumped the all on the South American market.

There's also a Playtronic variant that comes from South America that has Playtronic on the rear of the cartridge and I believe the box as well. It looks almost identical so you have to be careful as the Playtronic variant is much easier to find.

That photo I posted (not mine) is, as far as I know, the only known sealed copy of the Nintendo first print version of Mega Man 6.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Code Monkey

[Frost271 | 22]

17 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

It is pretty well documented in many threads here. The purple border has box, manual and cartridge with the -USA (non -1) product code which means it would have technically been first because the borderless variant have all -USA-1 codes on box, manual and cartridge.

That's one theory but the quantity of known examples is so low that some people think it was never officially released and these are just sample games that weren't supposed to go to retail. Also every example known has been found or originated in South America so there's another theory that Nintendo decided not to sell them here and dumped the all on the South American market.

There's also a Playtronic variant that comes from South America that has Playtronic on the rear of the cartridge and I believe the box as well. It looks almost identical so you have to be careful as the Playtronic variant is much easier to find.

That photo I posted is, as far as I know, the only know sealed copy of the Nintendo first print version of Mega Man 6.

Whats the difference between the two sealed boxes i linked? Wata labels one as “Nintendo Version.”  They appear identical. 

[AdamW | 713]

24 minutes ago, Frost271 said:

Whats the difference between the two sealed boxes i linked? Wata labels one as “Nintendo Version.”  They appear identical. 

I'm not an expert on this game at all, but note one was graded in 2019 and the other in 2021. That's a long time gap. WATA changes how they tag things over time as they learn more about variants. I am an expert on Pokemon, and WATA's description of the exact same Pokemon boxes is quite different for ones that were graded in 2019 vs. ones that were graded in 2021, because they have a better understanding now of the prints that exist and the key differences between them.

edit: on the price difference, you have to understand that for the high-roller collector there's a significant difference between 9.4 and 9.8. 9.4 copies of relatively high-production games aren't that uncommon. 9.8s do not show up very often at all. If you check other games, you'll see the same pattern, 9.8 of the same box usually sells for much more than 9.4.

Edited May 14, 2021 by AdamW

[Code Monkey | 2,005]

42 minutes ago, Frost271 said:

Whats the difference between the two sealed boxes i linked? Wata labels one as “Nintendo Version.”  They appear identical. 

Dude, Wata is just a bunch of guys trying to grade games, their quality control is zero. Check out my 2 identical Super Mario Bros. 3 that somehow have different front AND rear labelling.

 

[AdamW | 713]

I'm founding meta-WATA, an agency for grading WATA grades. I grade your 7.0 a 6.0 (egregious capitalization, inefficient line wrapping, excessive occurrence of "USA") and your 5.0 a 6.5 (egregious capitalization).

[AdamW | 713]

Same person trying to flip that Pokemon Blue from HA to WATA is now trying to flip a Pokemon Red Sandshrew 8.0 that sold for $9900 at HA earlier this month, too:
https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/pokemon-red-version-wata-80-a-sealed-sandshrew-first-production-gb-nintendo-1998-usa/a/312119-67054.s
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284315604058

Edited June 5, 2021 by AdamW

[fcgamer | 4,717]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:36 AM, Code Monkey said:

Also every example known has been found or originated in South America so there's another theory that Nintendo decided not to sell them here and dumped the all on the South American market.

There's also a Playtronic variant that comes from South America that has Playtronic on the rear of the cartridge and I believe the box as well. It looks almost identical so you have to be careful as the Playtronic variant is much easier to find.

Yeah, if they've only been found in South America, this shouldn't count as a USA release. Just one of those inconvenient truths regarding this particular one.

Also, iirc, weren't people over on NA back-swapping the Playtronic carts of this and Flintstones 2?

[AdamW | 713]

Oh hey, something I've been interested in for a while popped up for HA's July signature auction (wasn't in the listings last time I looked):

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/pokemon-blue-version-wata-94-a-sealed-sandshrew-red-text-first-production-gb-nintendo-1998-usa/p/7261-85001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

They finally have a sealed "Red text" Pokemon Blue for sale. HA sure do seem confused about prints in the description, though.

As I see things, "Red text" Blue is the earliest clearly identifiable production of a US Pokemon game. So it should be pretty highly valued, if buyers do their research and aren't thrown off by HA's weird description. It'll be really interesting to see how it does compared to the identically-graded Sandshrew Red in the same auction.

[jonebone | 1,307]

1 hour ago, AdamW said:

Oh hey, something I've been interested in for a while popped up for HA's July signature auction (wasn't in the listings last time I looked):

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/pokemon-blue-version-wata-94-a-sealed-sandshrew-red-text-first-production-gb-nintendo-1998-usa/p/7261-85001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

They finally have a sealed "Red text" Pokemon Blue for sale. HA sure do seem confused about prints in the description, though.

As I see things, "Red text" Blue is the earliest clearly identifiable production of a US Pokemon game. So it should be pretty highly valued, if buyers do their research and aren't thrown off by HA's weird description. It'll be really interesting to see how it does compared to the identically-graded Sandshrew Red in the same auction.

There's been some debates about "first". I'm of the mentality it was probably two different production facilities for white ESRB, one sandshrew and one rattata. Those red text box are always double enders which is clearly a cost cutting move and doesn't make sense as first to then more expensive folded boxes.

I just got a 9.4 CIB back myself in that white sandshrew with red error text so it will be interesting for me to watch at least.

[AdamW | 713]

1 hour ago, jonebone said:

There's been some debates about "first". I'm of the mentality it was probably two different production facilities for white ESRB, one sandshrew and one rattata. Those red text box are always double enders which is clearly a cost cutting move and doesn't make sense as first to then more expensive folded boxes.

I just got a 9.4 CIB back myself in that white sandshrew with red error text so it will be interesting for me to watch at least.

Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure I know exactly how it went...I don't think anyone has researched it more than I have All the details are in my thread:

 But let me try and summarize it:

1. The first production was in mid-1998, in the US. These were all Sandshrew boxes. They all had a 'tab/flap' cartridge pocket and, I believe, contained the cartridge in a clamshell plastic protector case. They all had white-ESRB carts, white-ESRB manuals coded U/DMG-APAE-USA (Red) or U/DMG-APEE-USA (Blue), and consumer safety U/DMG-USA-6. Some were printed upside down, so the correct access to the cart pocket is at the bottom. The first 500,000 or so Blues had the "Red text" error; then it was noticed and corrected. All the Reds from this run are identical. I believe these boxes weigh ~125g raw.

2. There were additional productions in the US before mid-1999. These were also Sandshrew boxes. However, they have a 'flat/open' cartridge pocket, and I believe did not have a plastic protector case for the cart. They have the same manual and cart as the first production, but consumer safety U/DMG-USA-7. I believe these boxes weigh ~110g raw.

3. In around fall 1999, some more Sandshrew boxes were produced in the US. These have a flat/open cart pocket, black-ESRB cart, no protector case, black-ESRB manuals U/DMG-APAE-USA-1 (Red) or U/DMG-APEE-USA-1 (Blue), and consumer safety U/DMG-USA-7., and should weigh ~110g raw. Around the same time, the first white-ESRB Rattata boxes were printed in Japan. They have white-ESRB carts, white-ESRB manuals DMG-APAE-USA (Red) or DMG-APEE-USA (Blue), and consumer safety DMG-USA-7. Rattata boxes have date codes, so there is no mystery about when they were produced. The date codes I have recorded for white-ESRB Rattata boxes are 990705, 990709, 990727, and 990820 - all in July and August 1999.

4. From October 1999 to 2002/2003, black-ESRB Rattata boxes were produced in Japan. Their contents vary a bit depending on the date of production.

I'm honestly really pretty convinced of all the above at this point. I find the evidence for it pretty conclusive and will gladly talk anyone to death about it. When you say there has "been debate", are you taking that from the HA text, or are you aware of somewhere other than here and efour.proboards where this stuff is being actively discussed? Because if there is anywhere else, I'd love to go and debate it there. I have written HA a few times, and I think they're actually partly referring to my notes in their description, but I think they're getting it a bit garbled.

The fundamental Sandshrew/Rattata story according to me is: all first productions are Sandshrew. The game came out in 1998. I have never seen a Rattata box with a date code earlier than July 1999. However, not all Sandshrews are first production. The evidence for the 'later' Sandshrew boxes is pretty overwhelming at this point, to me anyway. I think most Sandshrews were produced before most Rattatas, but I think a few late Sandshrews with the black-ESRB carts and manuals may have been produced after the earliest white-ESRB Rattatas.

I don't think the box style difference has much to do with cost, BTW. I think it's purely about production location. They had a press in the US that produced double-ended boxes, and a press in Japan that produced y-fold boxes. Which box type a print used was simply determined by where it was produced. Overall, on the whole, from GB through to GBA, there seem to be more y-fold boxes than double-ended ones, which suggests Nintendo preferred to produce things in Japan and only did print runs in the US when they really 'needed' to for some reason or another. That might be because it was more expensive to do runs in the US press, but it could've been for some other reason too.

[AdamW | 713]

BTW, it follows from the above that the "Red text" Blue print is interesting because you can be really sure it's early production. If you agree with me, and you're looking at a sealed Sandshrew Red, it could be as early as a "Red text" Blue...or it could have been produced in the back half of 1999 and contain a black-ESRB cart and manual. Without opening it, it's very difficult to know.

The most new and cutting-edge part of my theory is that you could actually tell whether it's from the first run or a later run by weighing it. But I'm having trouble proving that, because it's not that easy to find a bunch of people with ungraded sealed Sandshrew boxes who will weigh them.

[Gloves | 11,749]

3 minutes ago, AdamW said:

BTW, it follows from the above that the "Red text" Blue print is interesting because you can be really sure it's early production. If you agree with me, and you're looking at a sealed Sandshrew Red, it could be as early as a "Red text" Blue...or it could have been produced in the back half of 1999 and contain a black-ESRB cart and manual. Without opening it, it's very difficult to know.

The most new and cutting-edge part of my theory is that you could actually tell whether it's from the first run or a later run by weighing it. But I'm having trouble proving that, because it's not that easy to find a bunch of people with ungraded sealed Sandshrew boxes who will weigh them.

Tch. Imagine not having your sealed Pokemon graded. TCH! 

I wish I had a sealed Pokemon.

[AdamW | 713]

Theoretically, if the manufacturers of grading cases are up to snuff and their weights are consistent, the weight thing should work for graded copies too. You just have to know how much the case weighs, and account for it. But I don't know how consistent they are, and I don't know what they weigh...

[A_Feisty_Pickle | 244]

2 hours ago, AdamW said:

Theoretically, if the manufacturers of grading cases are up to snuff and their weights are consistent, the weight thing should work for graded copies too. You just have to know how much the case weighs, and account for it. But I don't know how consistent they are, and I don't know what they weigh...

Weight is an attribute passed back from one of the API responses when viewing your grades. I'm not sure how accurate it is though. 

https://api.watagames.com/api/backoffice/order/{orderId}
box -> (index) -> crateItems -> (index) -> weight

Although I'm not sure what units of measurement they're using here... But would hopefully be consistent for same prints.

Edited June 6, 2021 by A_Feisty_Pickle

[AdamW | 713]

Oh wow, that's actually really interesting! If WATA has weighed every Sandshrew box they've graded that could be super interesting information, if I could get my hands on it Thanks for the tip!

[A_Feisty_Pickle | 244]

Yeah it's probably not too useful right now as only the submitter of the game has access to the weight. Hopefully someday they'll have a public interface...

[AdamW | 713]

Or at least if I bug them enough times they'll check the records just to make me shut up.

[tidaldreams | 654]

15 hours ago, AdamW said:

Oh hey, something I've been interested in for a while popped up for HA's July signature auction (wasn't in the listings last time I looked):

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/pokemon-blue-version-wata-94-a-sealed-sandshrew-red-text-first-production-gb-nintendo-1998-usa/p/7261-85001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

They finally have a sealed "Red text" Pokemon Blue for sale. HA sure do seem confused about prints in the description, though.

As I see things, "Red text" Blue is the earliest clearly identifiable production of a US Pokemon game. So it should be pretty highly valued, if buyers do their research and aren't thrown off by HA's weird description. It'll be really interesting to see how it does compared to the identically-graded Sandshrew Red in the same auction.

Well ain't that something... we might break 100k on a Pokemon game sooner than I expected.

[AdamW | 713]

7 hours ago, tidaldreams said:

Well ain't that something... we might break 100k on a Pokemon game sooner than I expected.

Possibly, or it could just squib out because "facts are hard" and "not Charizard" Not being a 9.6 or 9.8 will also hurt it a bit. Can't wait for the auction now...