Heritage Auctions Thread

[sp1nz | 611]

1 hour ago, final fight cd said:

but is WATA and heritage changing what’s desirable to collect?

so if it’s a first, related to a popular move franchise or comic, and featuring a sports legend the money is gonna be big, right?

has these sales influenced anybody on what to buy?

Yes the perception of masses and investors is molded by Wata/HA, they go by the rules they know from comic books or whatnot and it MUST mean that it applies to video game desirability. When something has larger mainstream appeal then it'll most likely rake money on HA because big money low game market knowledge people are hopping on the train (the random German guy just bidding crazy amounts on random PS2 games is good example of an even more clueless bystander to those that have made the market get this far this quick and even he might be making money on his willy nilly 0 knowledge 0 care investment *deep bro*). Like for long term "investing" it makes sense that characters or series with staying power will be known to more people and therefore they are safer bets further into future but at the same token the hot characters are million sellers, so you have to squeeze some "legendary" print run status from them or get into OCD condition scales, because 0.2 more grade must mean thousands and thousands of more value. Still the hype market is largely North America based although the ripple effect will affect all regions to varying degrees. First print is misleading term and can't be evaluated on outer box alone in many cases, DefaultGen has a good on the nose parody video about this and some other issues:

Again like I said before, the market hasn't formed organically but is more of a manufactured one, doesn't mean that the market will suddenly crash or go away though. You see the great marketing power on full display with this takeover. "You had your fun peasants but we will make the market now" (I mean if this isn't elitists in other fields just carpet bombing another field, then what is). It's probably inevitable for a popular material based sector to be "exploited" like this when it gets more and more mainstream, yet I'm not sure if this has happened with physical movies for example albeit their popularity, maybe they have too large prints (yet million seller games get valued in hundreds as CIBs) or movie buffs just want the props and other associated paraphernalia. I don't know how the game supply and demand on larger scale will work or be affected by all of this but I'm guessing a lot of people are gonna pay out the ass from FOMO or accept being priced out. All collecting is on the up and up but game collecting value increases exploded onto the scene in the past couple of years. I'm just glad I never started collecting with money or returns in mind.

I haven't been buying too much retro in the past couple years and I'm mainly European and CIB collector, so I'm not sure how much I'm affected on European front, if I ever want more of those American imports though, yikes. But even when things become more expensive, not every game ever is going to go into nutso price territory, especially CIB only.

[AdamW | 713]

@sp1nzif you pay attention, WATA are actually quite careful about using the word "first", and they don't use the term "first print", they use "first production". They do seem to use it only when quite confident it can actually be reasonably identified. When they aren't sure, or know that there are ways to distinguish production order of CIB but not sealed copies, they usually put "early production", which is an intentionally vaguer term.

[jonebone | 1,307]

2 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

A++ is case fresh and is described as perfect. Here's the descriptor for A+ from their website, even A+ seals should not have holes.

I'm telling you I've held a lot of sealed Wata games and if you have A+ on Genesis it has at least one hole in the seal somewhere. That guide is over 2 years old and should be updated. On NES I agree no holes on A++ unless a tiny corner pokes or two, but Genesis is a whole different animal. 

Problem is using one scale to describe it all. Each platform has more variation. 

[Khromak | 768]

1 hour ago, sp1nz said:

Yes the perception of masses and investors is molded by Wata/HA, they go by the rules they know from comic books or whatnot and it MUST mean that it applies to video game desirability. When something has larger mainstream appeal then it'll most likely rake money on HA because big money low game market knowledge people are hopping on the train (the random German guy just bidding crazy amounts on random PS2 games is good example of an even more clueless bystander to those that have made the market get this far this quick and even he might be making money on his willy nilly 0 knowledge 0 care investment *deep bro*). Like for long term "investing" it makes sense that characters or series with staying power will be known to more people and therefore they are safer bets further into future but at the same token the hot characters are million sellers, so you have to squeeze some "legendary" print run status from them or get into OCD condition scales, because 0.2 more grade must mean thousands and thousands of more value. Still the hype market is largely North America based although the ripple effect will affect all regions to varying degrees. First print is misleading term and can't be evaluated on outer box alone in many cases, DefaultGen has a good on the nose parody video about this and some other issues:

Again like I said before, the market hasn't formed organically but is more of a manufactured one, doesn't mean that the market will suddenly crash or go away though. You see the great marketing power on full display with this takeover. "You had your fun peasants but we will make the market now" (I mean if this isn't elitists in other fields just carpet bombing another field, then what is). It's probably inevitable for a popular material based sector to be "exploited" like this when it gets more and more mainstream, yet I'm not sure if this has happened with physical movies for example albeit their popularity, maybe they have too large prints (yet million seller games get valued in hundreds as CIBs) or movie buffs just want the props and other associated paraphernalia. I don't know how the game supply and demand on larger scale will work or be affected by all of this but I'm guessing a lot of people are gonna pay out the ass from FOMO or accept being priced out. All collecting is on the up and up but game collecting value increases exploded onto the scene in the past couple of years. I'm just glad I never started collecting with money or returns in mind.

I haven't been buying too much retro in the past couple years and I'm mainly European and CIB collector, so I'm not sure how much I'm affected on European front, if I ever want more of those American imports though, yikes. But even when things become more expensive, not every game ever is going to go into nutso price territory, especially CIB only.

Holy shit this video was hilarious. @DefaultGennice work.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

27 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I'm telling you I've held a lot of sealed Wata games and if you have A+ on Genesis it has at least one hole in the seal somewhere. That guide is over 2 years old and should be updated. On NES I agree no holes on A++ unless a tiny corner pokes or two, but Genesis is a whole different animal. 

Problem is using one scale to describe it all. Each platform has more variation. 

I'm not trying to flex here but I have A++ Genesis examples as well. Some have very tiny pinhole dots that run a straight line about 3-4 inches long in some cases. Those are from the way the seal came from the factory. That gaping hole in the bottom corner of that Sonic 2 in the photo I shared is not that, it's man made. That's a hole. I agree to disagree and stand firm on my belief that that's an A seal.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 hour ago, sp1nz said:

Yes the perception of masses and investors is molded by Wata/HA, they go by the rules they know from comic books or whatnot and it MUST mean that it applies to video game desirability. When something has larger mainstream appeal then it'll most likely rake money on HA because big money low game market knowledge people are hopping on the train (the random German guy just bidding crazy amounts on random PS2 games is good example of an even more clueless bystander to those that have made the market get this far this quick and even he might be making money on his willy nilly 0 knowledge 0 care investment *deep bro*). Like for long term "investing" it makes sense that characters or series with staying power will be known to more people and therefore they are safer bets further into future but at the same token the hot characters are million sellers, so you have to squeeze some "legendary" print run status from them or get into OCD condition scales, because 0.2 more grade must mean thousands and thousands of more value. Still the hype market is largely North America based although the ripple effect will affect all regions to varying degrees. First print is misleading term and can't be evaluated on outer box alone in many cases, DefaultGen has a good on the nose parody video about this and some other issues:

Again like I said before, the market hasn't formed organically but is more of a manufactured one, doesn't mean that the market will suddenly crash or go away though. You see the great marketing power on full display with this takeover. "You had your fun peasants but we will make the market now" (I mean if this isn't elitists in other fields just carpet bombing another field, then what is). It's probably inevitable for a popular material based sector to be "exploited" like this when it gets more and more mainstream, yet I'm not sure if this has happened with physical movies for example albeit their popularity, maybe they have too large prints (yet million seller games get valued in hundreds as CIBs) or movie buffs just want the props and other associated paraphernalia. I don't know how the game supply and demand on larger scale will work or be affected by all of this but I'm guessing a lot of people are gonna pay out the ass from FOMO or accept being priced out. All collecting is on the up and up but game collecting value increases exploded onto the scene in the past couple of years. I'm just glad I never started collecting with money or returns in mind.

I haven't been buying too much retro in the past couple years and I'm mainly European and CIB collector, so I'm not sure how much I'm affected on European front, if I ever want more of those American imports though, yikes. But even when things become more expensive, not every game ever is going to go into nutso price territory, especially CIB only.

I'm calling the police! Shawn just had his identity stolen!

[AdamW | 713]

20 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Holy shit this video was hilarious. @DefaultGennice work.

Seconded, it was great Thanks defaultgen!

[Gloves | 11,759]

1 hour ago, sp1nz said:

Yes the perception of masses and investors is molded by Wata/HA, they go by the rules they know from comic books or whatnot and it MUST mean that it applies to video game desirability. When something has larger mainstream appeal then it'll most likely rake money on HA because big money low game market knowledge people are hopping on the train (the random German guy just bidding crazy amounts on random PS2 games is good example of an even more clueless bystander to those that have made the market get this far this quick and even he might be making money on his willy nilly 0 knowledge 0 care investment *deep bro*). Like for long term "investing" it makes sense that characters or series with staying power will be known to more people and therefore they are safer bets further into future but at the same token the hot characters are million sellers, so you have to squeeze some "legendary" print run status from them or get into OCD condition scales, because 0.2 more grade must mean thousands and thousands of more value. Still the hype market is largely North America based although the ripple effect will affect all regions to varying degrees. First print is misleading term and can't be evaluated on outer box alone in many cases, DefaultGen has a good on the nose parody video about this and some other issues:

Again like I said before, the market hasn't formed organically but is more of a manufactured one, doesn't mean that the market will suddenly crash or go away though. You see the great marketing power on full display with this takeover. "You had your fun peasants but we will make the market now" (I mean if this isn't elitists in other fields just carpet bombing another field, then what is). It's probably inevitable for a popular material based sector to be "exploited" like this when it gets more and more mainstream, yet I'm not sure if this has happened with physical movies for example albeit their popularity, maybe they have too large prints (yet million seller games get valued in hundreds as CIBs) or movie buffs just want the props and other associated paraphernalia. I don't know how the game supply and demand on larger scale will work or be affected by all of this but I'm guessing a lot of people are gonna pay out the ass from FOMO or accept being priced out. All collecting is on the up and up but game collecting value increases exploded onto the scene in the past couple of years. I'm just glad I never started collecting with money or returns in mind.

I haven't been buying too much retro in the past couple years and I'm mainly European and CIB collector, so I'm not sure how much I'm affected on European front, if I ever want more of those American imports though, yikes. But even when things become more expensive, not every game ever is going to go into nutso price territory, especially CIB only.

@DefaultGen This might actually be my favorite video ever lol.

[jonebone | 1,307]

41 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

I'm not trying to flex here but I have A++ Genesis examples as well. Some have very tiny pinhole dots that run a straight line about 3-4 inches long in some cases. Those are from the way the seal came from the factory. That gaping hole in the bottom corner of that Sonic 2 in the photo I shared is not that, it's man made. That's a hole. I agree to disagree and stand firm on my belief that that's an A seal.

Sure agree to disagree but A is a very average seal especially on Genesis. A on Genesis has multiple holes or splits, sometimes a inch or inches long especially at seam. And multiple corners are worn through or hangtab area is split.  I could respect someone saying it's an A+ but it's far too good for A. I'm not trying to have an ego battle, I just collect Genesis myself and sub a lot so I know what I can get away with at this point.

End of day that hole would bother me on A++ but I'm already used to being disappointed with A++ half of the time if I didn't sub myself. I'm very strict though, as most VGA collectors are.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

@jonebone I know where you're coming from and I get it. The games I did get back were actually VGA converts that were 90+. I'm still waiting on a lot of raw games I've sent to Wata over a year ago, so I've never truly seen a game graded by them that wasn't already graded by VGA.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Gulag Joe

[Frost271 | 22]

Want to applaud those that picked up some “obscure” rarities and hope they went to collector homes that needed them: 

-Color a Dinosaur 

-Commando No-Rev A (three month print run)

-Fire N Ice

-Dragon Warrior 4 (not necessarily obscure but for the price, not bad!)

-Die Hard

I would have given a run for all these titles but was “all in” on that Karnov. Wish it wasn’t one of the later auctions. My “all in” is nowhere near the type of car money people apparently have to blow. Didn’t expect that to sell at what it did!  Super rare gem.

Side note: great old school article reference Mark!  

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Frost271

[final fight cd | 184]

On 4/6/2021 at 5:43 PM, Gulag Joe said:

@jonebone I know where you're coming from and I get it. The games I did get back were actually VGA converts that were 90+. I'm still waiting on a lot of raw games I've sent to Wata over a year ago, so I've never truly seen a game graded by them that wasn't already graded by VGA.

Waiting for over a year? People are still sending games in? For real? 
 

with WATA and HA forming a nice relationship and setting a precedent, is there any way of another grader can come in and have success? I don’t know the ins and outs of grading, but another team can surely do better, right?  

how are people justifying waiting a year?

 

 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 hour ago, final fight cd said:

Waiting for over a year? People are still sending games in? For real? 
 

with WATA and HA forming a nice relationship and setting a precedent, is there any way of another grader can come in and have success? I don’t know the ins and outs of grading, but another team can surely do better, right?  

how are people justifying waiting a year?

 

 

They promised me it would only be 180 business days! Heritage sales set off an explosion in submissions since then, so the only thing I can do is continue to wait for my order as I do plan to consign some of the games through heritage and sit on the rest until we actually see a population report.

[final fight cd | 184]

3 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

They promised me it would only be 180 business days! Heritage sales set off an explosion in submissions since then, so the only thing I can do is continue to wait for my order as I do plan to consign some of the games through heritage and sit on the rest until we actually see a population report.

Is part of the wait WATA prioritizing items? 

[kell | 102]

14 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

Is part of the wait WATA prioritizing items? 

I assume so. Some have Turbo orders going back to Sept.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

16 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

Is part of the wait WATA prioritizing items? 

Yes. I'm not sure when I'll decide to shoot an email asking where my MF games are again but it'll likely be soon

[final fight cd | 184]

19 minutes ago, kell said:

I assume so. Some have Turbo orders going back to Sept.

I know they have tiers, but they obviously aren’t abiding them.  I was just wondering if the more high profile games are taking priority, regardless of what tier somebody paid for.  If somebody sends in a sticker seal Mario are they going to wait a year to get it back?

[Gulag Joe | 582]

18 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

I know they have tiers, but they obviously aren’t abiding them.  I was just wondering if the more high profile games are taking priority, regardless of what tier somebody paid for.  If somebody sends in a sticker seal Mario are they going to wait a year to get it back?

Na with something like a sticker seal mario, if you send it in on select or turbo, they email you right away and tell you how much your game is worth and then say if you want them to grade it you have to pay a percentage of the value they think it's worth and you get it back in 10 days.

[16BitBricks | 59]

6 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

Na with something like a sticker seal mario, if you send it in on select or turbo, they email you right away and tell you how much your game is worth and then say if you want them to grade it you have to pay a percentage of the value they think it's worth and you get it back in 10 days.

So if I understand their website site correctly, if I find and submit 4th print sealed Mario (and they value it at $660k), I have to pay $14k just to get it graded? That ridiculous! Considering the relationship between WATA and Heritage, it’s hugely advantageous to them for auction prices to go sky high. I guess that explains why some of these auction sale prices don’t make sense to anyone. I’ve thought about submitting a couple games, but the more I follow this stuff, it just seems dishonest, manipulative, and unethical. Make that money I guess.

Edited April 11, 2021 by 16BitBricks

[OptOut | 8,880]

3 minutes ago, 16BitBricks said:

So if I understand their website site correctly, if I find and submit 4th print sealed Mario (and they value it at $660k), I have too pay $14k just to get it graded? That ridiculous! Considering the relationship between WATA and Heritage, it’s hugely advantageous to them for auction prices to go sky high. I guess that explains why some of these auction sale prices don’t make sense to anyone. I’ve thought about submitting a couple games, but the more I follow this stuff, it just seems dishonest, manipulative, and unethical. Make that money I guess.

[Brickman | 3,978]

6 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

Na with something like a sticker seal mario, if you send it in on select or turbo, they email you right away and tell you how much your game is worth and then say if you want them to grade it you have to pay a percentage of the value they think it's worth and you get it back in 10 days.

Holy shit is this real!? How much more corrupt can this company get?

[OptOut | 8,880]

13 minutes ago, Shmup said:

Holy shit is this real!? How much more corrupt can this company get?

Yeah we talked about it in one of the other threads too. It's all so transparent, but then again that's why a lot of money grubbers choose collectables to exploit... Zero regulations.

You try something like this with ACTUAL stocks and financial markets and stuff and they'd be in front of a judge in no time.

[Brickman | 3,978]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

Yeah we talked about it in one of the other threads too. It's all so transparent, but then again that's why a lot of money grubbers choose collectables to exploit... Zero regulations.

You try something like this with ACTUAL stocks and financial markets and stuff and they'd be in front of a judge in no time.

Yep exactly. Don’t think we’ll ever see those population reports if this is going on.

[GPX | 1,369]

3 hours ago, OptOut said:

Yeah we talked about it in one of the other threads too. It's all so transparent, but then again that's why a lot of money grubbers choose collectables to exploit... Zero regulations.

You try something like this with ACTUAL stocks and financial markets and stuff and they'd be in front of a judge in no time.

With news being plastered all over the place regarding rising game values, HA sales etc; I think there will be slow enquiries on the legalities of what’s happening. 

I believe there are definite genuine increase in interest in games collecting and investing since WATA/HA. However, among genuine sales and interest, there is high probability of market manipulation going on. We can’t turn a blind eye on this, because the market is currently affecting pretty much everyone to some degree, big or small.

The analogy would be no different to CIB collecting and monitoring the activities of scammers and repro sellers. If we support the hobby, we all owe a level of cynism as a community to questionable activities.

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

@DefaultGen well done. Flexing on me so hard with the beanie baby, Powerfest hat, non not for resale sonic, and that 9.4 Super Mario!

Edited April 11, 2021 by a3quit4s