Thoughts on Limited Run Games for NES Publishing?

[matthughson | 171]

I'm starting to put feelers out for publishing of my next NES game, Witch n' Wiz, and one such publisher is LRG.

They've done a few retro releases at this point, but I haven't had much interaction with them. Anyone have strong opinions about them, good or bad, buyer or developer? Feel free to DM me if it's not something you want to share publicly.

Topics I'm curious about:

• Shipping costs
• World-wide shipping
• Quality of components
• Quality of box/manual/etc
• Marketing reach
• Business dealings

If you are a collector, what are your feelings when you see a NES game show up on LRG?

Edited July 30, 2021 by matthughson

[ecmyers | 97]

I've picked up a couple of their NES games (Mall Brawl and Dead Tomb), as well as some of their NES-style collector's editions for modern games, and their packaging is impeccable. I missed their limited release of GALF, but since they switched to open pre-orders I haven't had any trouble getting the games that I want from them. Although they have their detractors, they seem like genuine fans of games and retro releases, particularly with their recent reissues of Natsume titles and Shantae on Game Boy, so I'm happy to support them, and Jeremy Parish (Retronauts) works with them too. He loves the NES and has shown some interest in homebrew releases; I believe he was a big reason, if not the main reason, they sold those Famicom homebrew music games recently.

The only problem I have had with LRG and homebrew is the fact that my copy of Mall Brawl does not work on the RetroUSB AVS, since they only tested it on the stock firmware; but that may as much be an issue with the AVS than them, and it works fine on my frontloader NES. Aside from wanting to make sure any game I bought from them will work on my AVS, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new homebrew game from them. They also might be a good avenue for getting your game on Switch as well, since they seem to be involved with getting Spoony Bard's Alfonso's Arctic Adventure on the platform (today!).

Edited July 30, 2021 by ecmyers

[matthughson | 171]

Great points @ecmyers! I would probably make it a stipulation that Witch n' Wiz be tested on multiple clone systems, and run without issue. It uses MMC1 (the most common cart hardware), so there is really no reason it shouldn't run on pretty much everything. 

If the game can run in NESticle, it should run on any modern hardware IMO 

[Scrobins | 1,718]

I agree with everything Eugene said above.

However my main gripe with Limited Run is their insanely long production timeline for homebrew games. Information is sparse once pre-orders close and it seems like games arrive months after you’ve long forgotten you even ordered anything. I’m not sure if that’s a result of needing different supply chains for retro game production or as a more niche area it’s less of a priority than games for modern consoles, and I shouldn’t speculate. I like to think I’m on the more patient end of the spectrum as a consumer, but for all their amazing delivery of a final product, I’m usually feeling an annoyed “finally” than an elated “oh boy it’s here” when I receive anything from them.

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

I've got Jay and Silent Bob and the quality of everything is top notch. The production and shipping times are totally annoying. I echo @ecmyers that when I had an AVS it didn't work but it does work on Analogue because they have an option for newer 3.6v carts. 

Pretty much all their releases come with so much extra junk they really put alot of pressure on themselves supplier and vendor wise. For a simpler release of box cart and manual I'm almost certain you are better off working with 6502 or even BunnyBoy at RetroUSB. Maybe even reach out to @KHAN Games and see what suppliers and stuff he uses if he is willing to give up some trade secrets. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by a3quit4s

[DefaultGen | 5,397]

3 hours ago, matthughson said:

If you are a collector, what are your feelings when you see a NES game show up on LRG?

I'm more on top of releases than the average person but still sometimes miss a game that was released through a smaller channel (or I just didn't type "NES" into Kickstarter one month). With LRG, I'd probably never miss that a game is coming out given how much discussion they get in non-homebrew circles. Otherwise, I don't care either way how a game is released. Someone needs to make a homebrew release newsletter.

[matthughson | 171]

2 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

Someone needs to make a homebrew release newsletter.

I totally agree! I actually created a channel on my Discord just for that! https://discord.gg/NHwCb2yuyF A newsletter would be nice though.

19 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

For a simpler release of box cart and manual I'm almost certain you are better off working with...

Yeah, I'm also talking with all the regulars in NES Homebrew. I'm much more familiar with them though, where as LRG is a lesser known for me, so looking for some objective insight.

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

@matthughson did LRG actually get back to you? I'm not super familiar with their NES library as others are but I've seen only re-releases of popular games and Jay and Silent Bob, I'm wondering how they responded to you being sort of an unknown homebrewer with your own IP. I get they do physical releases of popular digital only games but usually the games they release are on the consoles digital store or something. I don't think I've seen them do anything unknown really is what I'm trying to say. 

[neodolphino | 267]

14 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

@matthughson did LRG actually get back to you? I'm not super familiar with their NES library as others are but I've seen only re-releases of popular games and Jay and Silent Bob, I'm wondering how they responded to you being sort of an unknown homebrewer with your own IP. I get they do physical releases of popular digital only games but usually the games they release are on the consoles digital store or something. I don't think I've seen them do anything unknown really is what I'm trying to say. 

They -did- do the Hole New World NES chiptune cart... and Dead Tomb...

But yeah, the other releases had some significant bigger tie in, or proven track record (GALF, Mall Brawl, thr 8-bit music powers).

To answer your question, use me!!! XD

But seriously, LRG has its production issues, but if you can get them to take your release on (they'd be crazy not to) you'll reach a very large audience easily, likely get a ton of sales, and the product would likely be good quality.

[matthughson | 171]

On 7/30/2021 at 2:56 PM, a3quit4s said:

@matthughson did LRG actually get back to you? ...I'm wondering how they responded to you being sort of an unknown homebrewer with your own IP.

Yup, they were quite quick to respond. I'm sure I'm very small potatoes to them, but I certainly don't feel like that talking with them.

Now, whether that will turn into an actual formal offer to produce the game, I'm not sure, but I don't get the impression it would be a stretch for them to do so.

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

31 minutes ago, matthughson said:

Yup, they were quite quick to respond. I'm sure I'm very small potatoes to them, but I certainly don't feel like that talking with them.

Now, whether that will turn into an actual formal offer to produce the game, I'm not sure, but I don't get the impression it would be a stretch for them to do so.

I wonder if they'd be more inclined to buy the property from you for a sum and leave you on as a creator. Glad to hear they got back to you though!

[Sumez | 2,931]

With the recent changes to customs fees and massively blown up shipping prices, where just getting a game to you will cost much more than the game itself, I really hope LRG won't ever put out any other game I want again in the future.

Outside of that I have respect for what they are doing.

That is all

Edited August 3, 2021 by Sumez

[toma | 71]

I've always found LRG to be really up front and easy to deal with. Working with them has the advantage of having a bit of extra exposure outside of the regular homebrew scene as well which is nice.

As far as porting Alfonzo's Arctic Adventure to Switch goes, I actually handled the actual port in-house myself while I was porting Mall Brawl, but LRG published for me as I didn't have approval from Nintendo to publish games myself at the time. After having Mall Brawl and Alfonzo published that may be changing though.

If you're interested in doing a Switch port, I'm definitely down to talk about it. Alfonzo and Mall Brawl were both MMC1 as well so getting Witch n Wiz running on Switch using the same porting method shouldn't be too difficult.

[matthughson | 171]

23 minutes ago, toma said:

If you're interested in doing a Switch port, I'm definitely down to talk about it. Alfonzo and Mall Brawl were both MMC1 as well so getting Witch n Wiz running on Switch using the same porting method shouldn't be too difficult.

Oh I didn't realize they were MMC1... I thought I was a lone wolf! Thanks for the offer, and I will reach out if I start to consider a port. Currently I'm just thinking about physical NES release with LRG, so your insight is really awesome to have, thanks!

[Sumez | 2,931]

I'd say if you have the option to actually go for it, definitely do it. It would attract absurd amounts of attention to your product, and I know I wouldn't say no. I do hope it won't be the only way to get a cart though.

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

Don't let them talk you into packing in all kinds of shit to jack the price up and cause production delays! Still waiting on my Scott Pilgrim order from January. 

[matthughson | 171]

1 hour ago, a3quit4s said:

Don't let them talk you into packing in all kinds of shit to jack the price up and cause production delays! Still waiting on my Scott Pilgrim order from January. 

It's funny you say that, because I thought of all the extra shit as one of the benefits of going with someone like LRG. 

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

28 minutes ago, matthughson said:

It's funny you say that, because I thought of all the extra shit as one of the benefits of going with someone like LRG. 

Nah man give me a cart manual and box and I'm out haha maybe I'm the outlier on that. Do whatever works for you to get the game out. Although I'd much rather kickstart you and have you make profit without sharing any with LRG but there is no denying that them releasing your game will get you more attention. 

[Scrobins | 1,718]

49 minutes ago, matthughson said:

It's funny you say that, because I thought of all the extra shit as one of the benefits of going with someone like LRG. 

Was there anything in particular you had in mind as far as extras? Depending on what you'd like other publishers might be happy to add those as well. I believe the 6502 Collective likes doing some extra items.

[matthughson | 171]

4 hours ago, Scrobins said:

Was there anything in particular you had in mind as far as extras? Depending on what you'd like other publishers might be happy to add those as well. I believe the 6502 Collective likes doing some extra items.

Honestly, I personally don't like that stuff, so I have no clue. Just that some people seem to really like it, so it might be cool to have options. But yah, I don't think that's exclusive the LRG. First Press Games had a ton of stuff with Blazing Rangers (https://firstpressgames.com/collections/retro/products/blazing-rangers-nes-pal-super-collectors-edition).

[Sumez | 2,931]

6 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

Nah man give me a cart manual and box and I'm out haha maybe I'm the outlier on that.

In that case, why did you order the Scott Pilgrim with all the added fluff? I got my barebones version long ago at this point.

[a3quit4s | 4,091]

6 hours ago, Sumez said:

In that case, why did you order the Scott Pilgrim with all the added fluff? I got my barebones version long ago at this point.

Ah Scott pilgrim, when I sold the 800 or DVDs that I owned it was the one I kept. There are very certain conditions that I will buy one with extra stuff. Mostly though box, manual, and cart is all I need. Like I said I'll probably buy it either way so whatever works. 

[fcgamer | 4,719]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:30 PM, matthughson said:

Honestly, I personally don't like that stuff, so I have no clue. Just that some people seem to really like it, so it might be cool to have options. But yah, I don't think that's exclusive the LRG. First Press Games had a ton of stuff with Blazing Rangers (https://firstpressgames.com/collections/retro/products/blazing-rangers-nes-pal-super-collectors-edition).

Nah, don't fall into that trap. 

I'm with @a3quit4s , I'm not a fan of a billion different versions and pack-ins either.

Just think about your clientele, for a moment. I'd reckon a large part of the folks buying these games are collectors to some degree, more versions / variants puts some of those more obsessed OCD collectors into a position where they want to purchase all the variations. 

While it's a good way to artificially sell more copies and get more money, I personally don't like it. 

[matthughson | 171]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

...more versions / variants puts some of those more obsessed OCD collectors into a position where they want to purchase all the variations. 

If I did it, it will likely be less about unique versions, and more about tiers. So the highest tier will have everything; you wouldn't need to buy all the different options.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

5 minutes ago, matthughson said:

If I did it, it will likely be less about unique versions, and more about tiers. So the highest tier will have everything; you wouldn't need to buy all the different options.

Completionists would though