Can I Kick It?

[fcgamer | 4,719]

2 minutes ago, neodolphino said:

So wait. You're saying because -you- quoted -him-, he is then -obligated- to reply to you?? Come on man...

Had he quoted you and said something inflammatory toward you or argued your points, then didn't reply to your rebuttal, I could -maybe- see your point, but that's not the case.

Getting mad at someone for not responding to you when you are demanding that response (without that person having engaged you at all in the conversation) seems unreasonable. Sure, you may want to argue their point, but I don't think there is any rule, unwritten or otherwise, that obligates them to respond to you.

If I'm walking down the street and you bump into me, I'm likely to make some sort of utterance. To fully ignore it is being inflammatory squared, no?

Thing is, we had a thread quite recently about The Incident, where one frequent VGS member called out a VGS member who rarely shows. Ultimately, the latter guy made a response and home boy refused to answer , for several days, until being called out.

It's a similar issue here. Mr Granato is technically a VGS member, though he rarely comes here. It's sickening the crap that people spread about him, when the reality is seemingly much different. @neodolphino I guess you also backed Mr Granato project and felt ripped off by the outcome?

 

[neodolphino | 267]

18 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

If I'm walking down the street and you bump into me, I'm likely to make some sort of utterance. To fully ignore it is being inflammatory squared, no?

Thing is, we had a thread quite recently about The Incident, where one frequent VGS member called out a VGS member who rarely shows. Ultimately, the latter guy made a response and home boy refused to answer , for several days, until being called out.

It's a similar issue here. Mr Granato is technically a VGS member, though he rarely comes here. It's sickening the crap that people spread about him, when the reality is seemingly much different. @neodolphino I guess you also backed Mr Granato project and felt ripped off by the outcome?

 

If we are going off of your analogy - sure, you two bumped, but it was because you saw him walking down the street without even looking at or interacting with you, and you decided you didn't like the message on his shirt, so you intentionally bumped into him... or more like brushed him, and got angry that he didn't react to it...

As for the KHAN "incident" (haw). The big difference there is that CM made what superficially was a shitty little snide remark about KHAN's game/project. Which is personal attack... 

Not sure why you are guessing about the last part. It's like you assume that because I disagree with you, I must have a ulterior reason why, which if so, somehow invalidates my argument... but to answer you, I did back the project, and while I do hope the full game comes out and wish it would be a primary focus/finished after all this time, I don't feel "ripped off", and do feel that -overall- Joe wants to do the right thing...

[fcgamer | 4,719]

5 hours ago, neodolphino said:

Not sure why you are guessing about the last part. It's like you assume that because I disagree with you, I must have a ulterior reason why, which if so, somehow invalidates my argument... but to answer you, I did back the project, and while I do hope the full game comes out and wish it would be a primary focus/finished after all this time, I don't feel "ripped off", and do feel that -overall- Joe wants to do the right thing...

@neodolphino First off I just want to say that I have nothing but respect for you, and all the hard work and contributions you make and put into the homebrew community. This isn't going to change, from my side, over a discussion on here so please don't take anything personally or the wrong way, as I don't mean it thst way now regarding what I quoted above:

I don't think that it invalidates your opinion, though I do feel that it's likely most of the people who are having issues about the situation are those who backed the game, those with a horse in the race.

The horse regarding Mystic Searches  / Mystic Origins has been beaten to death a long time ago, and the situation has been explained so many times too, from the creator himself, it seems the original Searches advanced drastically in scope and then Origins basically took the place of Searches? I guess I'm not really sure what the problem is, especially when the developer is still working on the game.

But the remarks over the whole thing, cropping up time and time again (and the recent one which I will quote below), is it honestly really necessary? Especially when the guy seems to have tried to fulfill his campaign, has discussed the situation at length to a bunch of haters, even given people an out? But instead we get people saying about him on a forum he rarely visits, the following, and I don't think it's necessary, especially the "drop and run" tactic. Those are my thoughts on it.

"And then never really making Mystic Searches. And basically telling backers to f*ck off when they ask about Mystic Searches."

Edited July 26, 2021 by fcgamer

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

I backed Bloodstained and I'd never back another Kickstarter. The game took forever to deliver and ended up costing more through Kickstarter than through traditional means. Also, the content kept changing and many of the promises were never kept.

I let the hype get the best of me due to my love for SotN, but it's really nonsensical to invest in something with a 0% return. It's not like you can't buy these things when (if) they ever release.

[G-type | 2,479]

I have backed many board games and comics on kickstarter. and I'm using it to launch my own comic book tomorrow: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geoffweber/bughunt1

[fcgamer | 4,719]

4 minutes ago, G-type said:

I have backed many board games and comics on kickstarter. and I'm using it to launch my own comic book tomorrow: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geoffweber/bughunt1

That project looks so sweet, good luck with the launch!!!

[G-type | 2,479]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

That project looks so sweet, good luck with the launch!!!

Thanks!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

6 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Here we go again, you calling me out all because a year and a half ago I offered to buy you an Xbox game

Maybe he keeps calling you out because of your behavior.  That's the pattern to look at.

I'm pretty sure 100% of the rest of the community will vouch for @spacepup's character and the job he does as a mod.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

45 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Maybe he keeps calling you out because of your behavior.  That's the pattern to look at.

I'm pretty sure 100% of the rest of the community will vouch for @spacepup's character and the job he does as a mod.

You wouldn't know the backstory.

[Gloves | 11,761]

5 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You wouldn't know the backstory.

[TDIRunner | 2,727]

2 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

I backed Bloodstained and I'd never back another Kickstarter. The game took forever to deliver and ended up costing more through Kickstarter than through traditional means. Also, the content kept changing and many of the promises were never kept.

I let the hype get the best of me due to my love for SotN, but it's really nonsensical to invest in something with a 0% return. It's not like you can't buy these things when (if) they ever release.

This is a good example and it's of one of the games I was referring to in my previous post.  Even if the Kickstarter had failed, they still had the means to produce this game, which means the Kickstarter was used as a way of taking pre-orders without having to guarantee anything.  I also got caught up in the hype and I learned my lesson along the way.  Fortunately, I was able to get a game out of it, so it wasn't a complete disaster of an experience, but I won't do it again.  

Edited July 26, 2021 by TDIRunner

[Tanooki | 4,930]

Well now, dozens of drama posts into it now, this re-affirms my old post I made days ago to me.

For the longest time I felt uncomfortable about ponying up for the investment scheme KS and others use, mostly others since you can just lose it, it's not refunded on a fail...but either way so much goes down in flames and drama, bitterness, stupidity ensues.  I thought awhile before posting that on what could work, and I really feel now even more so reading that day of dumpster fire that patreon makes sense the most.

A lot of the bitterness is over changed objectives, slighting investors with missing goals, dragging things out, petty excuses, periods of inexcusable silence(or near that with a baby carrot on a string), whatever.  Patreon is a one off, weekly, daily, monthly...whatever you want to give.  Seems the wisest move.  Game maker(s) get insta-funding but if you pull some shit, they stop investing, then it's like a real business.  You produce something at a job, if you fuck it up you're punished or fired, and the money is cut(loss of bonus, OT, etc) or stopped(fired.)  Maybe this should be something developers should consider in all fairness, unless they fear being paid for honest accountable work.

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

I like Kickstarter for homebrews and will continue to back projects in which programming is finished (or close to it).  A demo goes a long way in getting me to back.

I've backed 13 projects to date and have only not received rewards for 2½ of those.  Those three projects were the only ones that were really concept only upon initiation.  The starters are still updating, so I am fairly confident in their completion but I'm not holding my breath.  But I won't back on concept alone ever again.

[Deadeye | 1,595]

I back projects on Kickstarter and will continue to do so.  Overall positive on my end.  So far backed 40 projects.

39 have been successfully funded, of those 25 have delivered, 12 are still in development, and 2 are still in their campaign period.

The 12 that are still in development, I think 5 are past the target date, but all have been giving updates.

 

The 40 projects have been:

- 22 homebrews

- 9 Indie PC / Apple II / or switch game

- 3 board / tabletop game

- 4 some sort of tech

- 2 books

[neodolphino | 267]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:36 PM, fcgamer said:

@neodolphino First off I just want to say that I have nothing but respect for you, and all the hard work and contributions you make and put into the homebrew community. This isn't going to change, from my side, over a discussion on here so please don't take anything personally or the wrong way, as I don't mean it thst way now regarding what I quoted above:

I don't think that it invalidates your opinion, though I do feel that it's likely most of the people who are having issues about the situation are those who backed the game, those with a horse in the race.

The horse regarding Mystic Searches  / Mystic Origins has been beaten to death a long time ago, and the situation has been explained so many times too, from the creator himself, it seems the original Searches advanced drastically in scope and then Origins basically took the place of Searches? I guess I'm not really sure what the problem is, especially when the developer is still working on the game.

But the remarks over the whole thing, cropping up time and time again (and the recent one which I will quote below), is it honestly really necessary? Especially when the guy seems to have tried to fulfill his campaign, has discussed the situation at length to a bunch of haters, even given people an out? But instead we get people saying about him on a forum he rarely visits, the following, and I don't think it's necessary, especially the "drop and run" tactic. Those are my thoughts on it.

"And then never really making Mystic Searches. And basically telling backers to f*ck off when they ask about Mystic Searches."

I'm not taking anything you are saying as an offense, first off.

Anyway, the thing is my opinion had nothing to do with the project, but more to do with impatiently calling someone out and acting like you were owed a response.  If you want to discuss something further with someone who hasn't engaged you (and isn't any kind of personal attack) and they aren't responding to public quotes, maybe just try to PM them to discuss it more.  Acting all aggro about it isn't really necessary - that's all.

My opinions about the project have no impact on that part... but to address that part specifically, I get what you are saying about Mystic Origins being a surrogate for those unwilling to wait longer - thing is, it's billed as a precursor/a fraction of what the whole adventure is supposed to be.  It's nice that it's a option for people, but it also isn't 100% what they backed for.  Yes they can also wait... which I am (I think I have one of the testing copies of Origins, and a completed copy somewhere that I bought aside from the campaign).  I think what a lot of people have trouble digesting is how Joe can sometimes come off in his replies.  Yes, he may have may good points - but a lot of times customers just want accountability and a clear/reasonable way forward, not a huge wall of text and a bunch of excuses/you wouldn't understands/philosophical ramblings.  I personally don't care, but I can see how others would.  They are also entitled to their opinions, just as you are.   But in the end, like I said before... I think in the end, Joe really does want to do what is right and will eventually deliver what was promised.

Also, to answer the original question.  I have backed many kickstarters - mostly homebrew related, but some others as well.  I will continue to back, and honestly, I don't care the context in which the project is released (unless it's a huge corporation who is fully capable of releasing the product on their own, taking advantage of the system).

[fcgamer | 4,719]

3 minutes ago, neodolphino said:

I'm not taking anything you are saying as an offense, first off.

Anyway, the thing is my opinion had nothing to do with the project, but more to do with impatiently calling someone out and acting like you were owed a response.  If you want to discuss something further with someone who hasn't engaged you (and isn't any kind of personal attack) and they aren't responding to public quotes, maybe just try to PM them to discuss it more.  Acting all aggro about it isn't really necessary - that's all.

My opinions about the project have no impact on that part... but to address that part specifically, I get what you are saying about Mystic Origins being a surrogate for those unwilling to wait longer - thing is, it's billed as a precursor/a fraction of what the whole adventure is supposed to be.  It's nice that it's a option for people, but it also isn't 100% what they backed for.  Yes they can also wait... which I am (I think I have one of the testing copies of Origins, and a completed copy somewhere that I bought aside from the campaign).  I think what a lot of people have trouble digesting is how Joe can sometimes come off in his replies.  Yes, he may have may good points - but a lot of times customers just want accountability and a clear/reasonable way forward, not a huge wall of text and a bunch of excuses/you wouldn't understands/philosophical ramblings.  I personally don't care, but I can see how others would.  They are also entitled to their opinions, just as you are.   But in the end, like I said before... I think in the end, Joe really does want to do what is right and will eventually deliver what was promised.

Also, to answer the original question.  I have backed many kickstarters - mostly homebrew related, but some others as well.  I will continue to back, and honestly, I don't care the context in which the project is released (unless it's a huge corporation who is fully capable of releasing the product on their own, taking advantage of the system).

While I agree with what you are saying above, I also feel that part of accountability is answering messages publically when someone calls you out. For instance:

The other guy --> me --> you

The other guy called a forum member out publically, therefore I called him out, therefore you (and others) piled on me for the call-out. In this situation, it is fair that I was called out, as it probably wasn't in my place to call the other guy out; however, I don't think it was in his place to be making such aggressive remarks towards another forum member either, over an issue that has been beaten to death no matter what camp you're in.

Regarding scope and things changing, someone has mentioned earlier that even large corporations were doing that, with Bloodstained and what not, making changes and "not fulfilling" their promises. If larger corporations are doing it, it's understandable that a small team of folks might end up doing something similar, out of financial constraints, ability, time, person limitations, etc.

It looks like I'm in the minority here, but the bitterness and resentment people display towards that particular campaign just feel too much imo.

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

On 7/26/2021 at 6:01 PM, fcgamer said:

You wouldn't know the backstory.

As frequently as you randomly bring that crap about an Xbox game up in discussions that have exactly zero to do with it, I'd be surprised if there were more than a handful of folks on this site that don't know the backstory at this point, since you're quickdraw with that story and its sordid details.  Maybe put it to rest or throw your ongoing fit over the perceived snub in private from now on?  Jeez.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

6 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

As frequently as you randomly bring that crap about an Xbox game up in discussions that have exactly zero to do with it, I'd be surprised if there were more than a handful of folks on this site that don't know the backstory at this point, since you're quickdraw with that story and its sordid details.  Maybe put it to rest or throw your ongoing fit over the perceived snub in private from now on?  Jeez.

I feel your post is particularly aggressive. I wonder when folks are going to jump down your throat about being aggressive, hmm...

Regarding the game, it's a shitty situation when someone asks you for a favor, decides they don't want to pay the actual price (I don't charge commission for favors), then start making passive aggressive remarks and texts on discord groups and forum threads, after I pay yet MORE to obtain a copy of the game for myself than the first copy which was offered to the guy that asked for the favour.

As someone who does try to do favours for other collectors on here and elsewhere, without asking for anything in return, such slanderous attacks really paint my buying/selling/transactions reputation in a questionable light.

"Oh, don't ask fcgamer for help, he'll just buy said rare item for himself, instead of helping you out". That sort of talk. Yet the sad thing is, it's not even true!

It's my reputation on the line in the matter, it was attacked publically, it needs to be restored publically as well.

[CMR | 519]

I've backed a lot of homebrew projects.  So far all of them have delivered.  I'm waiting on a couple because I opted for every version of the game.  If I change something it will probably be not to do that again.  If I had a choice I would prefer to just buy something or get a digital copy off itchio.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

Not what I thought this thread was gonna be aboot… but here you go anyways.

 

[DefaultGen | 5,400]

1 hour ago, Richardhead said:

Not what I thought this thread was gonna be aboot… but here you go anyways.

 

Every time I log onto VGS now I’m just like

[spacepup | 2,404]

Not sure why all this other stuff keeps coming up, but I think Kickstarters are great! 

Our very own @G-type is doing one, and I think it's a great example of what Kickstarter is about, and how it can be used to really benefit someone who may not have a ton of advertising and distribution options. 

Here is his thread just in case anyone didn't see it and would be interested:

 

[G-type | 2,479]

4 hours ago, spacepup said:

Not sure why all this other stuff keeps coming up, but I think Kickstarters are great! 

Our very own @G-type is doing one, and I think it's a great example of what Kickstarter is about, and how it can be used to really benefit someone who may not have a ton of advertising and distribution options. 

Here is his thread just in case anyone didn't see it and would be interested:

 

Thanks @spacepup!

Regarding crowdfunding fulfillment: I will just add that you should consider the individual creator's track record when deciding whether they are trustworthy and not just lump everyone on kickstarter together.

I have backed 236 projects and of those, 95% have been delivered on schedule. Out of the ones that are behind schedule all but a couple have been good about communicating their progress.

[DarkTone | 984]

.......So I'm just keeping up with the thread and, wow. 

Like I said, the horror that was MN9 didn't stop me, or slow me down. One of the more recent games I backed, let me make a weapon in the game which I loved. Then everyone who backed to have their face in the game, got upgraded to being an NPC. I dont have bucket list, but being part of a video game has been a dream. Now I own a physical copy of it. 

The last game I backed let me make a boss. Working with the makers and seeing the process is really fun. 

[DarkTone | 984]

Double post. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by DarkTone