Favorite NES Homebrews/new releases.

[Sumez | 2,935]

Well, I did try to pick out examples where they win out to prove my point. But like I said, I don't want to undersell the titles on the right, just based on these examples. Like, Gun-Dec/Vice Project Doom does look notably better in the sidescrolling stages, but that was the best example I have to put a shooter up against.  

The fact remains that truly impressive looking NES games even in the late era were still a minority, so yeah even though every homebrew doesn't look it, you shouldn't ignore that a lot of them do have what it takes.

Also in general it's just hard to really compare two different time periods like that. A lot of people move into homebrew because they want to make NES style games, so yeah you'll definitely find more games of genres that are iconic to the platform, and probably not as many turn based RPGs or racing games. We are in 2021 where making a game for the NES is a conscious decision, and not the default platform of choice.
Pretty much everything is represented though.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sumez

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

In terms of quality as a video game? Outside of being subjective, I'd say it's a little unfair.  The Ninja Gaidens are some of the best video games ever made, I wouldn't expect any video game developer to match that quality on any console, new or old, any time soon.

 

Okay, I'm curious why you're continuously taking this back to graphics and tech specs?  I've never said homebrew games don't look good.  In fact, I think I like Frankengraphics style - and especially the color palettes she chooses - better than anything officially released on the NES.  But that's not what I'm talking about.  I didn't list all those games that you compared screenshots with because of their graphics; I listed them because they are amazing later era games to play: they are the complete package with awesome gameplay, incredible music, a lot of depth, interesting level design, and yes, amazing graphics; to put it bluntly, they are the total package.  Isn't it only fair to compare the best to the best?

And yes, I understand the amount of resources these original games had available to come to fruition, and I even mentioned it explicitly in an earlier post, but that doesn't make it an "unfair" comparison.  We're comparing actual released homebrews to actual released late-era NES games, and in terms of the total package, we're not there yet, but moving closer every year.  And that is not a bad or a negative thing, it's just an honest statement based on clear and obvious observations.  Again, I love the homebrew scene and I'm definitely excited to see what's coming next, but please be honest about the realities of the NES titles released, both past and present...

Edited July 10, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[Deadeye | 1,596]

In the head to head selections that @Sumezlaid out, both games are quality choices for the homebrew and for the licensed game.  There are some homebrews in there that are still in development, but the ones that I have played both the homebrew and licensed game, in many of the cases, I'd rather play the homebrew.  I am referring to the "total" experience. 

That is my opinion and you may disagree.  However, even if you disagree and have played the homebrew shown, I would have a hard time seeing that the homebrew is way off in "total" experience comparatively.   I can agree that I would like to see more homebrews at the caliber though.  I do enjoy a wide range of homebrews though, from tech demos, minigames, competition gamers, and to the ones that sumez mentioned.  

[fcgamer | 4,722]

50 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

they are the total package.  Isn't it only fair to compare the best to the best?

So it does go back to what I initially said then - graphics and music.

You keep stating that this isn't the situation, yet you keep referencing the late NES era games as being the total package. To quote you even, ...not on par with..."

I mean come on dude, if a homebrew guy makes a kick ass game as well as the original SMB, you're gonna dock it just because the graphics aren't Little Samson and the music isn't either?

[fcgamer | 4,722]

54 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

We're comparing actual released homebrews to actual released late-era NES games, and in terms of the total package,

So you believe that the "best" NES games are the late-era ones? Again, it goes back to graphics and music my man...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

16 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

So it does go back to what I initially said then - graphics and music.

You keep stating that this isn't the situation, yet you keep referencing the late NES era games as being the total package. To quote you even, ...not on par with..."

I mean come on dude, if a homebrew guy makes a kick ass game as well as the original SMB, you're gonna dock it just because the graphics aren't Little Samson and the music isn't either?

Dude, wtf?!?!  I'm only talking about late-era NES games at all because Sumeze declared homebrews to be on par with them; I never brought them up in the first place, I simply stated that homebrews were at 1987 levels... that's all I said!  I'm comparing homebrews to them because Sumez said they were on par.  People in the community like Sumez who "want to believe," kinda like Alien and Bigfoot followers, are going to swear up and down that homebrews are so ridiculously magnificent at this point that they've already eclipsed the original NES library... and that's fine!  I'm done arguing about it.  The rest of the retro gamers in the world don't have tinted goggles on and we can tell the difference between all those late era games I listed and the homebrews that have been released in the last ten years.  He can't and you can't, but the rest of us can

 

15 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

So you believe that the "best" NES games are the late-era ones? Again, it goes back to graphics and music my man...

If we had a smiley for the biggest face palm ever, I'd place it right here.  Look, just believe what you want about me and feel free to write up a huge post of my gaming likes and dislikes, which I will not refute, and we'll end this circular argument right here

GOOD DAY!

[fcgamer | 4,722]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Dude, wtf?!?!  I'm only talking about late-era NES games at all because Sumeze declared homebrews to be on par with them; I never brought them up in the first place, I simply stated that homebrews were at 1987 levels... that's all I said!  I'm comparing homebrews to them because Sumez said they were on par.  People in the community like Sumez who "want to believe," kinda like Alien and Bigfoot followers, are going to swear up and down that homebrews are so ridiculously magnificent at this point that they've already eclipsed the original NES library... and that's fine!  I'm done arguing about it.  The rest of the retro gamers in the world don't have tinted goggles on and we can tell the difference between all those late era games I listed and the homebrews that have been released in the last ten years.  He can't and you can't, but the rest of us can

 

If we had a smiley for the biggest face palm ever, I'd place it right here.  Look, just believe what you want about me and feel free to write up a huge post of my gaming likes and dislikes, which I will not refute, and we'll end this circular argument right here

GOOD DAY!

If it's not about the graphics and music, why do you (and others) keep mentioning those aspects then? 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

20 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

If it's not about the graphics and music, why do you (and others) keep mentioning those aspects then? 

Dude, I don't know if you're troll-baiting me at this point or what, but I learned something about you during our Sachen debate on NA fourteen years ago, and it bears repeating:

 

HAVING AN INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION WITH YOU IS
IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!

[fcgamer | 4,722]

To reiterate, the (NES) Sachens definitely weren't Taiwanense releases, as the NA database and everyone wanted to claim, Ive bought Sachens brand new from shops and they were always 60 pin versions. In fact, all the games I bought here were 60 pin versions.

Edited July 10, 2021 by fcgamer

[Sumez | 2,935]

[Tanooki | 4,932]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:50 PM, fcgamer said:

I'll respond to your dm tomorrow, at need to check what games are on that.

Getting back to the discussion though, I'm surprised to hear you say this, as you're always referencing the NES multicarts of old, and let's face it, on a lot of them, there are exclusives but it's stuff like Pac-Land, Zippy Race, etc.

That's why I feel this conversation is so weird. People would gladly play some of the earlier NES games, yet they'd then snub their noses at homebrew games of similar calibre. 

It honestly makes no sense to me, sometimes less is more, right?

Because even those earlier ones have a fair bit more polish than a majority of homebrew sadly.  I guess it's the difference between knowing what you're doing, and working for a corporate overlord with accountability perhaps.  I've sampled primarily NES homebrew going back to earlier stuff like assimilate and all that.  That one included I found pretty stiff, having issues like the stuff rip to shreds from LJN of all things for glaring issues that just suck or suck the fun out of playing.  I'm not saying people shouldn't try, they should.  I'm also saying though we've come a long way with understanding of what the system is capable of and then some along with so many tools and freedom of documentation I feel the bar has been raised and people just well don't bother except in rarer cases.  KHAN games in particular if it's almost black box deep to the more complex like LSL1 conversion he nails it across the board of the spectrum of potential.  Yet you'll come across stuff like Nomolos which has some pretty wooden jumping and visuals, like it's lacking frames, it's just not polished despite some other aspects seeming so making it feel uneven.

Fine guess I'm a troll, good, but so is Morbis then too as I'm in total agreement with his posts since my last one, all that back and forward rebuttals, examples, etc.  I'm not going to parrot that stuff, it's blowing wind and I see no point.  I'll respond if asked, but he's laying it pretty bare.

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Uh oh... fcgamer went full sachen.  You never go full sachen.

[Gloves | 11,771]

It's almost like all aspects of a game are important or something, and that the coming together of visual, audio, and interactivity are what MAKES video games. 

Uuuhhhh but graphics aren't important... OF COURSE THEY ARE, FOOL. I LOOK at the game while I play it. Who here doesn't have fond memories of seeing that big bad at the end of Contra blow up? 

Uuuhhhh music doesn't make a good... OF COURSE IT DOES, FOOL. I bop along to those catchy tunes. Who here doesn't find themselves humming idly to that sweet Zelda music in their heads? 

Whatever, but the *gameplay* what really... TIES IT ALL TOGETHER, FOOL. OBVIOUSLY gameplay is important, probably the most important, yeah, but each of the elements ELEVATES the others. 

What even IS this discussion? Can you call it a discussion even? Where am I? 

[Scrobins | 1,725]

So @asmikaceback to your actual question, there are lots of fun homebrew games, with more coming out still. I shared a thread with a previous discussion of homebrew that others have enjoyed. You can also check out my blog about new games as well as @Deadeye’s blog about classics worth checking out. Let me know if you have other criteria to help curate some recommendations for you.

Regarding the derailing conversation, which seem to be getting more frequent lately, there are different views about how the smorgasbord of options compares to the licensed era, but there’s something for everyone to enjoy, including chiptune carts for those who might want to pop a cartridge in and sit back just to listen. At the end of the day, this corner of gaming is a community, and several of us are fortunate enough to count some of the devs as personal friends, recognizing that while there is money changing hands, it is at its heart, a place where people are making games for fun, to challenge themselves, and to make the games they would like to play and, most kindly of them, share with us.

Criticism of homebrew is certainly fair and on the table, but it’s one thing to say you disliked X game for X reason, and another to say homebrew isn’t anything to speak of because the median hasn’t reached Y skill level yet. That’s certainly an opinion to have, but do you really think brewers are going to respond to that with “fair point, yes sir, you’re totally right, I’ll get better and pop out that DW4-sequel RPG right away, sir!” If your attitude is to survey what’s available among homebrew games and exclaim how unimpressed you are, maybe this isn’t a corner of gaming for you.

If you feel targeted by that, understand that I find the opposite equally distasteful. I’ve seen a brewer on the discord complain how much he dislikes having his upcoming game lumped in the homebrew category because he sees his work as indie and thinks homebrew is an insulting term that is beneath his skill level, but still wants to profit from the community’s fans, not appreciating that homebrew is a term that reflects this community’s origins and not some persistent skill level. And if you’re too high-minded of yourself to clothe yourself and your work in the terminology that everyone else here wears with pride, maybe this corner of gaming isn’t for you either.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

What even IS this discussion? Can you call it a discussion even? Where am I? 

Well things were going really well back on page 1 until I made the comment that homebrews were getting up to the point of 1987 of the original NES library (which I felt was a huge compliment, to stand with the likes of Zelda, Metroid, Castlevania, et al) but ooooooooh man.... some members of this forum did not take kindly to that..... 

EDIT: and as for the actual topic of this thread, here's a repost of a list I made in a similar thread of some of my favourite homebrew games that have come out up to the end of 2020:

My favourites other than Lizard include:

-Streemerz - infinitely replayable and so damn fun
-Armed for Battle - as mentioned, awesome to see a competent RTS on the NES
-NES Virus Cleaner - I'm a sucker for short Arcadey type games
-Micro Mages - the new gold standard, it goes without saying...
-Family Picross - Just happy to have a Picross game on the NES
-Lan Master - fun puzzle game and I love the music and atmosphere
-Super NESnake 2 - I grew up with Snake games, so nostalgia here, and I actually like NESnake 1 better
-Project Blue - what Battle Kid should have been: more approachable run'n'gun fun without dying every 3 seconds

Edited July 11, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[fcgamer | 4,722]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Project Blue - what Battle Kid should have been: more approachable run'n'gun fun without dying every 3 seconds

Lol, that one was painful. 

Famicom Battle Kid is what both Project Blue and the NES Battle Kid should have been, a very approachable game.

Project Blue had me ripping my hair out, if you died at the wrong spot you'd be screwed, and that made it quite miserable if you had already completed a few areas...reset and try again or make another attempt to get out of the crappy situation you were dumped into, with minimal health. Yeah, that sucked and was a terrible design choice.

edit: I definitely remember not being in love with Magic Mages either. After playing through a few stages or rooms, I definitely had had enough. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by fcgamer

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

9 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Lol, that one was painful. 

Famicom Battle Kid is what both Project Blue and the NES Battle Kid should have been, a very approachable game.

Project Blue had me ripping my hair out, if you died at the wrong spot you'd be screwed, and that made it quite miserable if you had already completed a few areas...reset and try again or make another attempt to get out of the crappy situation you were dumped into, with minimal health. Yeah, that sucked and was a terrible design choice.

What's different about the famicom version?  My only issue with Project Blue is that the checkpoints were invisible so you never knew how far back it was going to kick you when you died.  I think it's better game design to have a little flag or some sort of indication so you know where you stand, kind of like how Micro Mages did it...

[fcgamer | 4,722]

1 minute ago, Dr. Morbis said:

What's different about the famicom version?  My only issue with Project Blue is that the checkpoints were invisible so you never knew how far back it was going to kick you when you died.  I think it's better game design to have a little flag or some sort of indication so you know where you stand, kind of like how Micro Mages did it...

The Famicom version rebalanced the difficulty...

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Ooooh I like this.  That game it pissed me off too often for me to consider buying it, let alone playing much either not wanting to poke the break stuff in a rage bear.  I see columbus circle had a hand in that, I feel I need to find a used copy to pick up or something, or at the least scrape up the ROM and see how it has been better balanced first.

 

4 hours ago, fcgamer said:

The Famicom version rebalanced the difficulty...

 

[fcgamer | 4,722]

21 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Ooooh I like this.  That game it pissed me off too often for me to consider buying it, let alone playing much either not wanting to poke the break stuff in a rage bear.  I see columbus circle had a hand in that, I feel I need to find a used copy to pick up or something, or at the least scrape up the ROM and see how it has been better balanced first.

 

 

There were some tricky spots, but I had no problem clearing the game without getting hung up anywhere.

Project Blue on the other hand, I got my ass handed to me so many times, it went back to the spawning situation in regards to health and location.

[Sumez | 2,935]

Battle Kid 2 is up there with some of the best games on the NES, but I can see why it's not for everyone. The first Battle Kid is a bit wonkier, but some people still hold it in very high regard.

It's one game I wish had been polished a lot better, though. With very little programming trickery, the transitions between two rooms could have been shortened immensely.
It could honestly have been eliminated entirely, but that requires some clever setups, and IIRC Sivak wasn't willing to even recognize the issue in the first place, so that's kinda regrettable.

[Sumez | 2,935]

18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

but ooooooooh man.... some members of this forum did not take kindly to that..... 

I'm sorry if you felt my comments were more aggressive than they were intended. I did see your statement as kinda disrespectful towards some of the insane work some talented homebrewers has put into their projects, so I might have ben rash in my response. But you are of course free to think whatever you feel like. I was just trying to address what I thought was a really interesting subject, and honestly have no hard feelings about your statement. Peace?

It derailed superfast, but the train of thought that I initially latched on to, was the same that you repeated in your last post. That there's sort of a progress going on where the state of homebrew "evolves" from simplistic and primitive games until finally reaching something that breaks all the original barriers of the NES and is reminiscent of late-era licensed titles. What point homebrew "is currently at" on that scale is actually irrelevant to that. You feel it's around 1987 while I'd put it in the early 90s, and either is fine. But what I originally wanted to point out is that it's really not a linear progression akin to technological advances, the way that makes it come across.

NES homebrew has been around since the mid 90s at least. And for at least the last couple of decades, the in-depth nature of the NES hardware has been incredibly well known and documented, and homebrew programmers have been delving into tricks far beyond what professional programmers did at the time, showing off stuff like 3D mazes, BG rendered bullet hells breaking the sprite limit, and so on.
What I wanted to point out, and what I'm sure we can probably agree on as well , is that there are no hard barriers preventing the type of games you're missing from the homebrew scene, and there really hasn't for at least 10-20 years at this point. The only thing lacking, preventing whatever game it is you feel is missing from being made, is someone standing up with the ambition to actually have a go at making that game.

 

Hence my first post "explaining" the nature of hobbyist programming scenes, and why the presence of both knowledge, technology, documentation, and skill, isn't necessarily enough to actually see impressive finished games. It wasn't a "huge wack of excuses", but at attempt at pointing out the actual "barriers" that exist.

When I first entered the homebrew scene close to 10 years ago now, I had actually looked at a bunch of existing homebrew and sort of shared your view. Like, this assembly programming thing sure looks advanced, and if people with much more experience in that than I have are making simple single-screen puzzle games with barely anything pushing the performance of them, I should definitely set my expectations low and not expect to make anything cool. Hell, even Battle Kid didn't have scrolling.
But to my surprise at the time, the thorough documentation of the NES and how to program for it, primarily thanks to wiki.nesdev.com and its contributors, carried me right into what would be my first prototype of a scrolling action platformer reminiscent of Ninja Gaiden, complete with a small level editor I'd made in JavaScript. I did all that in about a week, and I though wow, if it's that easy to get results, surely I can put together a really impressive action game in a few months that's way beyond any of the homebrew releases I'd personally seen at the time.

Lol, the point of the story of course is that even today I still have not finished any release, at least not any wholly original project of my own yet. This kind of stuff takes a whole lot more than just being able to program for the NES and make use of expansion chips  Hopefully one day, though.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Sumez

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

10 hours ago, Sumez said:

I'm sorry if you felt my comments were more aggressive than they were intended. I did see your statement as kinda disrespectful towards some of the insane work some talented homebrewers has put into their projects, so I might have ben rash in my response. But you are of course free to think whatever you feel like. I was just trying to address what I thought was a really interesting subject, and honestly have no hard feelings about your statement. Peace?

It derailed superfast, but the train of thought that I initially latched on to, was the same that you repeated in your last post. That there's sort of a progress going on where the state of homebrew "evolves" from simplistic and primitive games until finally reaching something that breaks all the original barriers of the NES and is reminiscent of late-era licensed titles. What point homebrew "is currently at" on that scale is actually irrelevant to that. You feel it's around 1987 while I'd put it in the early 90s, and either is fine. But what I originally wanted to point out is that it's really not a linear progression akin to technological advances, the way that makes it come across.

NES homebrew has been around since the mid 90s at least. And for at least the last couple of decades, the in-depth nature of the NES hardware has been incredibly well known and documented, and homebrew programmers have been delving into tricks far beyond what professional programmers did at the time, showing off stuff like 3D mazes, BG rendered bullet hells breaking the sprite limit, and so on.
What I wanted to point out, and what I'm sure we can probably agree on as well , is that there are no hard barriers preventing the type of games you're missing from the homebrew scene, and there really hasn't for at least 10-20 years at this point. The only thing lacking, preventing whatever game it is you feel is missing from being made, is someone standing up with the ambition to actually have a go at making that game.

 

Hence my first post "explaining" the nature of hobbyist programming scenes, and why the presence of both knowledge, technology, documentation, and skill, isn't necessarily enough to actually see impressive finished games. It wasn't a "huge wack of excuses", but at attempt at pointing out the actual "barriers" that exist.

When I first entered the homebrew scene close to 10 years ago now, I had actually looked at a bunch of existing homebrew and sort of shared your view. Like, this assembly programming thing sure looks advanced, and if people with much more experience in that than I have are making simple single-screen puzzle games with barely anything pushing the performance of them, I should definitely set my expectations low and not expect to make anything cool. Hell, even Battle Kid didn't have scrolling.
But to my surprise at the time, the thorough documentation of the NES and how to program for it, primarily thanks to wiki.nesdev.com and its contributors, carried me right into what would be my first prototype of a scrolling action platformer reminiscent of Ninja Gaiden, complete with a small level editor I'd made in JavaScript. I did all that in about a week, and I though wow, if it's that easy to get results, surely I can put together a really impressive action game in a few months that's way beyond any of the homebrew releases I'd personally seen at the time.

Lol, the point of the story of course is that even today I still have not finished any release, at least not any wholly original project of my own yet. This kind of stuff takes a whole lot more than just being able to program for the NES and make use of expansion chips  Hopefully one day, though.

Hey man, I understand what you're saying and there's no hard feelings as this is a discussion on an internet forum, nothing personal.

When I talk about progression of homebrews vs the original NES library, I'm talking about the leading edge games.  I know full well that there was some great and, shall we say, "not so great" original NES games, just as there are some great and not so great homebrews, but in terms of talking about how good games are vs how good they were, I'm ignoring the average and poor stuff and just focusing on the best.  Think of it like the world record in 100 meters from 1896 till now: you gauge it based on how well the fastest man performed; the fact that the rest of us slobs are much slower is totally moot when you're talking about performance over time.  So, for me, looking at the homebrew scene, I'd compare the best in 2010 (say Battle Kid) with the original NES library and see where I personally think it would rank.  Right now, Micro Mages is a good example as "one of the best" so I would gauge how far the homebrew scene has come in terms of how I think Micro Mages ranks with the OG library versus how Battle Kid previously performed.  That's just the way I see things, and if other people see things differently that's fine.  So when the next major homebrew like Battle Kid and, more recently, Micro Mages comes along and takes things to a point where I feel that it is, say, a top 50 game ever, that's clear progression in the homebrew scene to me.  Hope that all makes sense.

I still stand by my statement that I think that the best homebrews are at 1987 levels, so to speak, and that is meant as compliment, not an insult, and I'm genuinely excited to see what heights will be reached in the future.  If I had one iota of coding skill, I would have jumped in the game a decade ago and made the best turn-based RPG I could muster, but alas...

[erac | 78]

NESmaker should be able to do a RPG. Or, you could do a proto in one of the RPG makers, and once it's complete, team up for a NES port.

[MegaMan52 | 2,442]

 

They may be incomplete, but they're still good. I like that Super Bat Puncher allows 2 players to play, and Neotoxin has an excellent soundtrack (so good I've got the NSF file saved onto an SD Card, and listen to it using my GameCube via FCE Ultra GX).

Edited August 4, 2021 by MegaMan52