The Incident Custom Levels

[KHAN Games | 147]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:02 PM, Code Monkey said:

All of Kevin Hanley's games are great but I just can't buy them anymore because of what he did on Kickstarter.

Not trying to be a jackass, but as you've been to the site multiple times since I asked what you meant by this, I think it's a bummer that you will vaguely call me out but won't respond when I ask for clarification of what you meant. I simply would like to improve on things in the future, but I can't do that if you won't elaborate on what you're implying I did wrong here.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

I'm quite interested in knowing what the incident is too.

Edit: just made some popcorn.

Edited July 7, 2021 by fcgamer

[KHAN Games | 147]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

I'm quite interested in knowing what the incident is too.

It's a game you don't like.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

13 minutes ago, KHAN Games said:

It's a game you don't like.

Well-played, sir.

I'll give it a go one of these days, can't say that I don't like it as first off it's on my favourite console, and secondly, I haven't played it (yet).

[fcgamer | 4,719]

@KHAN Games I'm looking now, only three games from your library are available for purchase via digital download, is that correct? Luckily The Incident is one of them, I've also been interested in that NEScape game, if I have the time I'll purchase both and give them a go this Friday or Saturday.

 

[KHAN Games | 147]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

@KHAN Games I'm looking now, only three games from your library are available for purchase via digital download, is that correct? Luckily The Incident is one of them, I've also been interested in that NEScape game, if I have the time I'll purchase both and give them a go this Friday or Saturday.

 

That is correct. DM me your email and I'll send you the Incident for free.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

1 hour ago, KHAN Games said:

That is correct. DM me your email and I'll send you the Incident for free.

That's really kind of you, I'll message you now.

[Scrobins | 1,718]

@Code Monkeycome out to plaaaaaaay

 

Casting vague and unsupported aspersions on a respected member of the homebrew community and then ghosting when he actually shows up to ask what you’re talking about? That’s obnoxious, even for you.

[Code Monkey | 2,005]

On 7/7/2021 at 8:20 AM, KHAN Games said:

Not trying to be a jackass, but as you've been to the site multiple times since I asked what you meant by this, I think it's a bummer that you will vaguely call me out but won't respond when I ask for clarification of what you meant. I simply would like to improve on things in the future, but I can't do that if you won't elaborate on what you're implying I did wrong here.

I really don't mind explaining it but I previously wrote down all the thoughts in my head at the beginning of this thread and got called out for it. This time I decided to keep everything to myself and allow others to contribute and I also get called out for that. I'm having a really hard time understanding here.

You and I already conversed about this on Nintendo Age and the end result is that I was the only one that had an issue with it and everyone else disagreed with me. Therefore I'm not posting this asking for an argument, I'm simply answering your question.

You completed your most recent game and after it was already completed and had a definite release date, you then put it on Kickstarter to gauge pre-orders to see how many you needed to make. This is not what Kickstarter is for and you're abusing the platform, it's supposed to be for people with an idea and trying to get the financial backing to make it a reality. When I bought it up, you didn't really seem to care and kept doing it anyway so therefore I can no longer support your projects. If you're not going to follow the rules, then there are consequences to your actions and these are my consequences.

What makes it even more unfortunate is that I think I own all of your games up to that point and I even won a local contest for a NES Classic where you had to write about a time in gaming that was special to you. I wrote about how my dad was visiting from the other side of the country and I had just gotten The Incident so I was playing it and he started by passing through the room a couple of times, then he was stopping for a few minutes, eventually he sat down and by the end of the week, he was greeting me as I woke telling me he thinks he may have figured out the level I was stuck on. It was great to share that with my dad because he normally doesn't care what I'm playing so it was special to me.

You make great games. But you also don't follow the rules. I'm sorry about that.

[neodolphino | 267]

@Code Monkey

While I agree with you about the original intent of Kickstarter, I think you're turning a pretty significant blind eye to what Kickstarter has become. Not only that, but Kickstarter has at the very least ignored this, has allowed projects like this to flourish, and has even promoted and encouraged them. If you want to boycot/shit on anyone - shit on them. Or maybe shit on the big companies that do this same thing or worse (take millions of dollars, then take forever to release a garbage game).

Even if a indie project is done/mostly done, it allows for indie developers to get additional funding for supplies, and gets their project out to a much much larger audience (and in theory brings more attention to the homebrew scene), which we should be thrilled with in the end.

I'd argue that if the only projects on Kickstarter were ones that actually 100% -needed- Kickstarter, there would be much fewer, and many would be much less interesting.

*Edited 2 stupid smartphone typos

[KHAN Games | 147]

9 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I really don't mind explaining it but I previously wrote down all the thoughts in my head at the beginning of this thread and got called out for it. This time I decided to keep everything to myself and allow others to contribute and I also get called out for that. I'm having a really hard time understanding here.

You and I already conversed about this on Nintendo Age and the end result is that I was the only one that had an issue with it and everyone else disagreed with me. Therefore I'm not posting this asking for an argument, I'm simply answering your question.

You completed your most recent game and after it was already completed and had a definite release date, you then put it on Kickstarter to gauge pre-orders to see how many you needed to make. This is not what Kickstarter is for and you're abusing the platform, it's supposed to be for people with an idea and trying to get the financial backing to make it a reality. When I bought it up, you didn't really seem to care and kept doing it anyway so therefore I can no longer support your projects. If you're not going to follow the rules, then there are consequences to your actions and these are my consequences.

What makes it even more unfortunate is that I think I own all of your games up to that point and I even won a local contest for a NES Classic where you had to write about a time in gaming that was special to you. I wrote about how my dad was visiting from the other side of the country and I had just gotten The Incident so I was playing it and he started by passing through the room a couple of times, then he was stopping for a few minutes, eventually he sat down and by the end of the week, he was greeting me as I woke telling me he thinks he may have figured out the level I was stuck on. It was great to share that with my dad because he normally doesn't care what I'm playing so it was special to me.

You make great games. But you also don't follow the rules. I'm sorry about that.

Thanks for responding!

[Orab Games | 97]

It's not a completed project until all of the materials are ordered and assembled. Kickstarter was used to finish the project. There is 0 startup cost to program the game. All the overhead comes from production and manufacturing which is what he asking to be funded. Not everyone has $15,000 laying around to produce 300 physical copies.

[KHAN Games | 147]

I'd like to pose a question (and I'm sorry to derail this thread. I promise I'll dig out all the custom levels that were submitted at some point).

Setting aside the rules, in how you interpret them, that Kickstarter isn't a platform to released "finished" games, (we could also debate what constitutes a finished product, as having a finished ROM certainly doesn't make a finished commercial product) how would you prefer I had funded the release of NEScape? With NA (which didn't shut down until October 2019, and despite it being on its last leg was certainly still the premier NES forum) prohibiting pre-orders, and launching a full release of a game (still dictated by orders of boxes and manuals, which starts being cost effective around the 250-300 order mark) costing about $6,000, I'm just not sure what options you think were available to me.

And again, I am asking genuinely with no malice. In what ways could I have released it while not using the Kickstarter platform? The NEScape campaign was launched May 16, 2019, for date comparison.

Looking forward to your ideas and thoughts.

edit: I see Tim commented while I was typing this up. $15k is probably a bit steep in overhead costs, but I suppose we are asking the same thing.

Edited July 9, 2021 by KHAN Games

[spacepup | 2,404]

What you did is fine, and I don't feel was abuse of the Kickstarter platform at the core.  Kickstarter helped you to complete the project (in terms of sales, distribution to buyers, getting funds to complete it, etc.)  

From my perspective, Kickstarter is to help people complete projects, and get funding to help them complete projects in ways that would be extremely difficult otherwise.  Nothing you did violates those principles.  

It is VERY different, when a large, well known company, with lots of funds, uses crowdfunding platforms for sales.  That is not what you did.  You are the exact target for places like Kickstarter.

Kickstarter is happy.  Your buyers were happy.  You were happy.  There is really no downside that I can think of, and no abuse occurred.

[KHAN Games | 147]

While I do appreciate your response I was specifically asking Code Monkey since he is the one that holds that belief. Bummed that I lost someone who once cared about my projects, and if he has ideas on how to better release my projects in the future to where he may return as a customer I'd definitely love to consider them.

[Code Monkey | 2,005]

2 hours ago, neodolphino said:

@Code Monkey

While I agree with you about the original intent of Kickstarter, I think you're turning a pretty significant blindness to what Kickstarter has become. Not only that, but Kickstarter has at the very least ignored this, has allowed projects like this to flourish, and has even promoted and encouraged them. If you want to boycot/shit on anyone - shit on them. Or maybe shit on the big companies that do this same thing or worse (take millions of dollars, theb take forever to release a garbage game).

Even if a indie project is done/mostly done, it allows for indie developers to get additional funding for supplies, and gets their project out to a much much larger audience (and in theory brings more attention to the homebrew scene), which we should be thrilled with in the end.

I'd argue that if the only projects on Kickstarter were ones that actually 100% -needed- Kickstarter, there would be much fewer, and many would be much less interesting.

There are 2 kinds of people in this world. There are people that care if they're in the majority and there are people that care if they're right. People that care about the majority only really care if they're doing what everyone else does and this is a mentality I don't understand at all. People that say, "Oh, everyone does that so it's okay." That doesn't make any sense, who cares if everyone else does it? Does that mean you're going to break the rules too? Be your own person and don't just be like everyone else. Follow the rules so that the system gets fixed if it's broken, not just modified to work. I'll be over here following the rules and doing things properly instead of just doing what everyone else is doing.

I have boycotted Kickstarter, I had to stop ordering from them because it totally went into the toilet with people abusing the platform. I backed Mighty No. 9, The New 8 Bit Heroes, Sydney Hunter And The Caverns Of Death, plus some non-game campaigns, I was on there every day. But then the more abuse I saw, the more it turned me off until now I refuse to even log in there anymore and I'm still waiting on some of those games 6 years later.

23 minutes ago, KHAN Games said:

I'd like to pose a question (and I'm sorry to derail this thread. I promise I'll dig out all the custom levels that were submitted at some point).

Setting aside the rules, in how you interpret them, that Kickstarter isn't a platform to released "finished" games, (we could also debate what constitutes a finished product, as having a finished ROM certainly doesn't make a finished commercial product) how would you prefer I had funded the release of NEScape? With NA (which didn't shut down until October 2019, and despite it being on its last leg was certainly still the premier NES forum) prohibiting pre-orders, and launching a full release of a game (still dictated by orders of boxes and manuals, which starts being cost effective around the 250-300 order mark) costing about $6,000, I'm just not sure what options you think were available to me.

And again, I am asking genuinely with no malice. In what ways could I have released it while not using the Kickstarter platform? The NEScape campaign was launched May 16, 2019, for date comparison.

Looking forward to your ideas and thoughts.

edit: I see Tim commented while I was typing this up. $15k is probably a bit steep in overhead costs, but I suppose we are asking the same thing.

This is a rare case where I complain and don't offer a solution. There wasn't really a platform available to help you but you still can't abuse another platform because it suits you. You could have just done what others have done by taking orders and making them individually per order like how I got Crazyland, Deadpool, Larry's Long Look For A Luscious Lover, Mystic Pillars, ET, Study Hall, 4-In-1, Princess Rescue and Happily Ever After. Plus a bunch more I'm probably forgetting, I have thousands of games.

How is David Crane doing their new releases with Audacity Games? They must have this figured out. How is Brian doing them with RetroUSB? Timewalk and Iam8bit? Maybe you can commission one of those guys to do the game for you. We just had a custom board at work built by a team in China so the resources are out there and I can even help if possible.

[KHAN Games | 147]

The irony that you're talking about waiting 6 years for Kickstarter rewards while at the same time boycotting games that are available from that same platform that just need production supplies in order to ship is fantastic.

Cool, well I appreciate your responses. Have a great day. Back to not visiting this site for a few years.  

[Deadeye | 1,595]

Well I regret this thread.    

Now please share level codes.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

3 hours ago, KHAN Games said:

The irony that you're talking about waiting 6 years for Kickstarter rewards while at the same time boycotting games that are available from that same platform that just need production supplies in order to ship is fantastic.

Cool, well I appreciate your responses. Have a great day. Back to not visiting this site for a few years.  

It'd be great if you did visit more often tbh, at least on the homebrew section.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

3 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

There are 2 kinds of people in this world. There are people that care if they're in the majority and there are people that care if they're right. 

Wrong, there are THREE kinds of people in this world, the two you mentioned, and a third kind, who know that they're right yet acquiesce to the majority, as it's not worth losing friends and making enemies for the sake of "being right". Although I was never diagnosed formally and am therefore NT until diagnosed otherwise, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if I'm very mildly on the spectrum, as the older I get, the more I see parts of my brother's way of thinking (and he is on the spectrum) in myself. Anyways, I used to be in the same camp as you, but then realised that it's better to not get hung up about such things, you'll have much happier life and meet some great folks who you'd otherwise shun thanks to not following the rules.

Regarding @KHAN Games and Kickstarter, here's my thoughts (choked on the metaphorical popcorn I made a few nights back btw, Codemonkey's post was a snooze fest):

We have Mighty No. 9. Then there's the guy, my friend's wife's boss, who "launched" a product via Kickstarter, despite the fact that 1. he was just reselling a Korean product in Taiwan and needed money to purchase the distribution rights for a year (didn't even personally brand the product or anything) and 2. that guy is loaded, as he got a nice payout when his father passed, who owned a successful business sweatshop in China. The list goes on and on. For me personally, Kickstarter was made for folks who had Hoover flags yet also had great ideas, that was the idea. Sure @KHAN Games might not fit that description entirely, but his projects match the spirit of Kickstarter much better than many of the projects I've seen on there, so I personally feel he's in the clear.

I think it's time to live and let live, we're all part of the same hobby and gaming community, we all just suffered through a hellish pandemic together (and survived!), it's time to let bygones be bygones. @spacepup that includes you if you wish, I saw you posted in this thread and I'll gladly let things go if you do as well.

Night everyone! By the way, tomorrow will be the day I play The Incident! Initially I planned to do it tonight, but it was an early day for me, starting with a health check in the morning, so this evening turned out to be more of a beer + jamming out night than a night for serious gaming

 

 

[spacepup | 2,404]

Well, I certainly have no desire to dwell on the past, or to have grudges or enemies.  Life is too short for that nonsense, especially over matters that aren't truly important.

Also, so we can get somewhat back on track - here is a level I just made! Nothing fancy, but it's my first attempt:

Let me know what you think! 

[Scrobins | 1,718]

Something I’ve been meaning to ask: what goes into designing your own levels? How do you know as you’re designing it that it’s 1) solvable, and 2) the level of difficulty you’d like it to be, whether that’s easy or hard? Am I overthinking this?

[fcgamer | 4,719]

An update for those who are curious: still trying to get this one to function on my everdrive, I seem to have modded the files to run it, but I just get some garbled graphics and can't do anything. 

Maybe I did something wrong, or it might be as I use a Micro Genius as my primary gaming machine. I'll try hooking a real famicom up and seeing if it fixes the issue, otherwise I'll play on my computer, though I always prefer to play on actual hardware.

[multiboot | 20]

Is it still ok to post here?

 

[multiboot | 20]