weekly contest VGS NES Weekly Contest - World Games!

[BeaIank | 1,618]

Did a small amend to the rules to make caber toss to have more impact at the final score tailing and help with the fact that many world records will be a tie.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

I'm not sure I like that.  Not because I don't think it's a good idea, but because I don't like having to take photos while I'm in the middle of a game

EDIT: Also, it sucks for those of us who have set the scores already and would have to reacquire them for those photos.

Edited June 21, 2021 by the_wizard_666

[BeaIank | 1,618]

It would be acceptable to just take the pictures for the caber toss event if you already got the picture for the rest of the events.
I would discard the caber toss record on the main picture and use the highest one of the three for it for the 1st part of the score.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

That makes sense.  Not so big a deal for me with 27'11" mind you (I've hit it a couple times, would only take a couple attempts to replicate).  I'm just thinking about that 46'11" mark that would likely be a one-time shot.  That said, if he can consistently get that high, I'd be curious what his  technique is...

[Krunch | 303]

Interesting!  Looks like this is gonna turn into an even tighter spread!

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

2 hours ago, Krunch said:

@the_wizard_666 I think it's gotta be that Deaf peeked at the code before starting.  I'm not trying to out him or anything it just seems obvious to me based on other contest - for this type of game, that's a solid approach and if I had understanding of code I'd do it to at least determine the number progression of it. 

I haven't played yet, but to me, the events that still have a mysterious maximum seem to also have big skill gaps.  If everyone can nail maxes in just a few of the more static categories, I think it could result in a tight standard deviation in the top 8.  This week is some kinda meta shit, like playing 8 games inside 1 game but with smaller podiums for each of 'em

I did try out weight lifting, barrel jumping, and cliff jumping last week, but I haven't looked into the code until today. Most of them I've figured out from reading the manual, watching playthrough, save states, and frame advance (to be clear I only use save states when practicing, not on my actual attempts). I did take a peak at the code for log rolling, bull riding, and looked at some ram variables for caber toss. I'm also going to look into Sumo's code to see what the max would be.

Edited June 21, 2021 by 0xDEAFC0DE

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

1 hour ago, the_wizard_666 said:

That makes sense.  Not so big a deal for me with 27'11" mind you (I've hit it a couple times, would only take a couple attempts to replicate).  I'm just thinking about that 46'11" mark that would likely be a one-time shot.  That said, if he can consistently get that high, I'd be curious what his  technique is...

It's actually not too bad once you know how it works. The manual has the key that you press left and right in a rhythm that gradually gets faster. There is one other annoying thing that you'll discover if you go far enough

[BeaIank | 1,618]

Meanwhile, I am letting you all know that I am figuring a rule set for Double Dragon that will freshen it up like what happened with Battletoads.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

24 minutes ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

There is one other annoying thing that you'll discover if you go far enough

I'm guessing that the field ends?  Never bothered to go that far...hard to maintain a rhythm for a long time, and I couldn't be arsed to go far enough to find that out

I will say that it's actually not hard to get into the low 20s, or even set the record, once you get the hang of when to release A.  I've only once had a successful toss that didn't break the default score, and that was literally done by either not taking a step, or by taking a single one (can't remember which...was testing things out at that point).  And all it takes is two or three steps to get 20'.  I think my problem is that I can maintain the rhythm, but speeding up is difficult.  It seems like a split second window to hit the buttons at the right time, so yeah, speed is not my forte in that one. 

 

1 minute ago, BeaIank said:

Meanwhile, I am letting you all know that I am figuring a rule set for Double Dragon that will freshen it up like what happened with Battletoads.

I'm simultaneously interested and concerned.  Interested because I'd like to see what you come up with, but concerned that the same thing is gonna happen when I see them that happened with me seeing the Battletoads rules - namely that it completely turns me off playing the game because I don't like it enough to severely handicap myself while playing it, so I couldn't even be arsed to put in a participation score

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

3 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Known maximum scores:

Weight Lifting: 450kg
Barrel Jumping: 19 (although whether this is actually achievable is unknown, you can only select up to 19 barrels)
Cliff Diving: 99/100 (seems like it'd be a score out of 100, but whether it's possible to hit that third digit is unknown)
Slalom Skiing: Unknown, likely in the high 30s or low 40s though.
Log Rolling: Unknown
Bull Riding: Unknown, possibly 100
Caber Toss: Unknown, but apparently it's possible to throw it almost 50 feet
Sumo Wrestling: Unknown

Also, after achieving a world record score in log rolling and having it not count, I figured I'll list the games that will take your last score and not your best one:
Slalom Skiing; Log Rolling; Bull Riding
If you achieve a record score on any of these events, fault out of any remaining runs so you don't lose it.

Here's the maxes as far as I know.

Weight lifting: 450kg. Pretty easy once you figure out the timing. 

Barrel jumping: the best I could do with frame advance was 15. So, I don't think 16 is possible and 19 definitely isn't. 

Cliff diving: 99. I was pretty confident with this via frame advance, but I double checked the code and it does clamp to 99.

Slalom skiing: there's a video out there if someone getting 26, so probably a bit lower than that

Log rolling: 49, technically. It's not humanly possible since you have to make left and right alternating frames. 46 is my limit, but I'm guessing 47 is humanly possible

Bull riding: 99. Score is clamped to 99 in the code. 

Caber toss: 46'11", I think. There is some sort is bonus that I don't fully understand yet though, so it may be a couple feet more. 

Sumo wrestling: Not sure. I'm going to look into the code to see. 

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

47 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

I'm guessing that the field ends?  Never bothered to go that far...hard to maintain a rhythm for a long time, and I couldn't be arsed to go far enough to find that out

I will say that it's actually not hard to get into the low 20s, or even set the record, once you get the hang of when to release A.  I've only once had a successful toss that didn't break the default score, and that was literally done by either not taking a step, or by taking a single one (can't remember which...was testing things out at that point).  And all it takes is two or three steps to get 20'.  I think my problem is that I can maintain the rhythm, but speeding up is difficult.  It seems like a split second window to hit the buttons at the right time, so yeah, speed is not my forte in that one. 

Pretty much, only there's no indication of how far you can go so you have to count steps. It's also possible to go too fast and hit your head. So you want to aire on being a bit slower than max speed. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

16 hours ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

Ok, here's some tough scores to shoot for.

I'm pretty sure weight lifting, barrel jumping, cliff diving, bull riding, and caber toss are at there max. Sumo is at or at least close to max (I'm not sure what max is). Slalom and log rolling I haven't practiced at all yet.

I have gotten really good at spelling my name (but I really wish it was only one letter).

Are you submitting this as your score, because it's illegal by the rules.  You're supposed to take a picture of your computer screen, and for good reason (anyone with decent photoshop skills could make any of the numbers in your pic be anything he wanted - not saying anyone would, but someone very easily could)...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

...And now that I've read the whole thread... once again the air of mystery has been entirely taken out of a game by code-peeking *sigh* But, on the bright side, we now know which events are actually useful for a competition like this. The useless ones that we will all tie are Weightlifting, Barrel Jumping, and Cliff Diving. The "wtf is going on with the scoring" ones are Log Rolling, Bull Riding, and Sumo Wrestling, and the TRUE SKILL EVENTS that actually take more than just code-peeking to excel at are Slalom and Caber Toss.  So my suggestion if this game is ever used again for a competition like this, is to pick two or three events like Slalom, Caber Toss and something else hard, like Sumo or Log Rolling, and just base the compo on that...

Edited June 22, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[Krunch | 303]

Man wish I had a cart for this one.  Gotta boot up my other laptop tonight that can support a real controller on emu, which is not bad for portability anyway in this game.  I want in on this sweet Olympic action!!!  

[NESfiend | 1,515]

17 hours ago, 0xDEAFC0DE said:

Ok, here's some tough scores to shoot for.

I'm pretty sure weight lifting, barrel jumping, cliff diving, bull riding, and caber toss are at there max. 

I just popped this in and started messing around with barrel jumping. 5-10 min and damn my thumb is SHOT. I was assuming that 19 barrels was possible since its the max the game offers you. Did you find in the code that 19 isnt possible? If so, are there any other options the game gives you in other events that simply are not possible? 

Not feeling this one early, but I said the same about caveman games and really ended up having fun with it after putting in some time and thumb abuse. Revisiting a link to the past for the 500th time tonight, but Ill get back to this in time

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

55 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Are you submitting this as your score, because it's illegal by the rules.  You're supposed to take a picture of your computer screen, and for good reason (anyone with decent photoshop skills could make any of the numbers in your pic be anything he wanted - not saying anyone would, but someone very easily could)...

I know, I wasn't planning on that being my submission. I just figured it'd give you guys a kick to get going and was too lazy to post a camera picture.

41 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

...And now that I've read the whole thread... once again the air of mystery has been entirely taken out of a game by code-peeking *sigh* But, on the bright side, we now know which events are actually useful for a competition like this. The useless ones that we will all tie are Weightlifting, Barrel Jumping, and Cliff Diving. The "wtf is going on with the scoring" ones are Log Rolling, Bull Riding, and Sumo Wrestling, and the TRUE SKILL EVENTS that actually take more than just code-peeking to excel at are Slalom and Caber Toss.  So my suggestion if this game is ever used again for a competition like this, is to pick two or three events like Slalom, Caber Toss and something else hard, like Sumo or Log Rolling, and just base the compo on that...

Weightlifting is by far the easiest to max. Barrel Jumping, Cliff Diving, Bull Riding, Caber Tossing are a bit more difficult to max but are still doable with enough attempts (I don't think Caber Tossing takes that much skill once you know how it works at least compared to the other three I listed). From what I understand of Sumo, it's kind of a crapshoot (but I'm planning on looking into it more). Log Rolling is actually a lot more simple under the hood and might be improvable based on mashing skills. That leaves Slalom as by far the most skill needed.

12 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

I just popped this in and started messing around with barrel jumping. 5-10 min and damn my thumb is SHOT. I was assuming that 19 barrels was possible since its the max the game offers you. Did you find in the code that 19 isnt possible? If so, are there any other options the game gives you in other events that simply are not possible? 

Not feeling this one early, but I said the same about caveman games and really ended up having fun with it after putting in some time and thumb abuse. Revisiting a link to the past for the 500th time tonight, but Ill get back to this in time

I haven't looked at the code for that one. I just used frame advance to jump as late as possible with full speed and was only able to clear 15. So, I don't think more than that is possible unless there's some technique I don't know about. Maybe I'll take a quick peek at the code later.

The other events with selectable things are all possible. Barrel jumping is just weird.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

Just for the record, you don't need to actually WIN at Sumo to get a decent score.  my 103 was a losing effort.  Not sure how the scoring actually works for it, but it's definitely not a question of winning and losing.  I've even had a couple times where my losing score was higher than the computer's winning one.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

1 hour ago, Krunch said:

Man wish I had a cart for this one.  Gotta boot up my other laptop tonight that can support a real controller on emu, which is not bad for portability anyway in this game.  I want in on this sweet Olympic action!!!  

Maybe Nexwave will have a copy for ten bucks or something... There's gotta be one available locally somewhere in that gigantic city...

[Krunch | 303]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Maybe Nexwave will have a copy for ten bucks or something... There's gotta be one available locally somewhere in that gigantic city...

Yeah almost certainly one around and I'll probably just opt for trading in crap at Game City and try to scoop a couple backroom manuals at the same time.  Should be $10-15 there but it's trades so whatevs, ill prob just trade loose DS games for it or somethin.   For tonight I'm probz just gonna try with laptop and if its aight its aight cause I do wanna start. 

I've never had this game CIB btw, youd think youd land one at some point but nope

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

8 WRs

And here's a legit caber toss throw that doesn't use the bonus exploit. 

Spoiler

For legacy, here is my three caber toss attempts

Caber Toss: 99'11", 99'11", 99'11" = 299'9" total

A real submission this time now that the rules have stabilized. Some improvements. Most notably, I figured out how that bonus worked and you can absolutely make it to 99' with it. Actually you can go past that and the score will be corrupt symbols, but it corrects it to 0'-9' on the total screen (which is what it uses for the WR). Then I did it three times in a row which was ... fun. Also, I got 46 in log rolling. That's about my limit, but I think 47 should be humanly possible. Then I got a respectable 33 in slalom. I think I had one miss, also I've seen a video of a 26, so there's definitely room for improvement. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by 0xDEAFC0DE

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

How the fuck do you get 99'11" with a) such a short distance moved, and b) such a lack of distance physically thrown (obviously b) is based on programming and not a legit question )???

Regardless, it's now obvious to me that the game is completely broken for competition purposes.  It's sad, cuz I love the game.  It's a great party game too.

[0xDEAFC0DE | 1,277]

14 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

How the fuck do you get 99'11" with a) such a short distance moved, and b) such a lack of distance physically thrown (obviously b) is based on programming and not a legit question )???

Regardless, it's now obvious to me that the game is completely broken for competition purposes.  It's sad, cuz I love the game.  It's a great party game too.

Caber toss now is by far the most broken. That bonus thing can absolutely be exploited with little skill necessary to the point were you don't need to travel far. There's such a simple fix to it too, that they didn't implement.

The 46' one was at least legit. The thing I was hinting at early is on the 32nd step your guy automatically drops the caber no matter the timing (probably to prevent overflowing the score like I've been doing with the dumb bonus trick). So, to do it legit you need to take 31 steps and then throw.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

I was noticing that there's some trick to it, as the caber, no matter how well you're going, will start leaning forward after a time.  I've managed to hit 40'11" while keeping it consistently in the high 20s to low 30s.  It seems to keep stepping until the caber leans forward on it's own, and then a couple more steps, then throw.  Don't speed up too soon, as it'll tip backward on you.  Make sure the caber is wobbling every step or two, and speed up when it starts remaining vertical.  I may be able to break your 46' score with some more practice, but 99'11" just doesn't seem feasible without figuring out how to exploit the game as you did.  It looks from your photos like you literally took a single step, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get more than 13' with only one step.

There's also another flaw that needs to be mentioned - since it doesn't say which attempt you were on when the throw was made, you could literally just take your best three shots and post them, with no way to prove they came from the same run.  Plus with the brokenness of the event you've proved, I don't think it can really be used as a determining factor anymore.  What do you think @BeaIank? 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

And officially I have now managed to consistently get 46'11" every time.  It's not even tough really...the hardest part is the timing of everything.  If you are moving too fast, at 16 steps the caber automatically falls on your head, so keep the pole wobbling a bit, or intentionally flub the timing to get past it.  Then you just speed up to 31 steps, and let fly.  There's a bit of leeway with the timing of the steps too, so it's just a matter of getting the timing nailed down enough to get there (you can lose the caber early if you're too slow).  I also think 46'11" may very well be the upper limit of the event, barring using whatever exploit @0xDEAFC0DE is using.

[BeaIank | 1,618]

3 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Plus with the brokenness of the event you've proved, I don't think it can really be used as a determining factor anymore.  What do you think @BeaIank? 

Fine. Slalom it is then.