Game Debate #54: Final Fantasy X

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

 

 

[Sumez | 2,941]

Hovering between 7/10 or 8/10, but I ended up rounding up, due to realizing the game is probably better than I like to give it credit for.

I didn't like it much when it came out. It did away with a lot of the things I liked about the FF series, it was painfully linear, the style of the world was unappealing to me, and there's no world map.
But it does have a lot of stuff going for it. The story is actually alright, and I like several of the characters. The combat system is very solid, and the much needed streamlining that the ATB system needed. The sphere grid was a lot of fun to play around with (my Wakka accidentally ended up on the path "intended" for Auron, which made him absurdly OP due to his ranged atack), and I actually enjoyed the postgame grinding of earning additional nodes for the grid to break the damage limits, etc. in order to fight the Dark Aeons.

I never had the patience to actually beat Penance, but it was cool to return to the final boss and take him down in a single hit.

[erac | 78]

Pros: excellent story, "and Yuna... Yuna dances". Cons: very linear, final boss absurdly difficult.

[peg | 370]

Oh boy here we go.  On one hand it has some cool battles and an excellent sound track. On the other hand you have to slog through one of the worst stories with some of the most annoying characters ever put into a video game.  I still can't get over how annoying and what a whiny little bitch Titus was, and it's all done with actual voice acting which makes it 1000x worse.  The story was just fucking awful and made no sense whatsoever.

 

This game really marks where the series started to lose it's way and become something completely unrecognizable to those of us who had been playing the games since the beginning.  I was tempted to go 0/10 since I really do hate most of it but then I remembered FF X-2 is a real game that was actually made and released to the public so FFX is not the low bar somehow.

 

2/10.

Edited June 17, 2021 by peg

[DefaultGen | 5,401]

I don't make it through many turn based JRPGs and FFX wasn't an exception. Got bored and stopped 

[Tanooki | 4,932]

For the time and even I guess in HD releases the game is a stand out.  A fairly unique story and characters, you either hate(or dismiss) or love blitzball --- personally I can't wait to be done with it when it comes up.  They did a pretty good job, but the game also was the start (towards its quite back end) of where they made Simon Says canned boss and random creature fights which to me suck the life out of the game, so really, I've never finished it because I wasn't going to resort to a lot of losses(wasted time) or guides...and I'm fine with that.  SO it's a good but not a great game.

The fight feels DQ like in looks, the open field before sanarkand with the rock golem thing.  You must attack it with specific moves, per turn, or it will lay you flat, stuff after is much the same, while the whole game before that was traditional trial, error, hit big or little combat without being 1 shot destroyed.  I really didn't like it 20 years ago, still don't now, which is why I rate it where it is between that and my finding blitzball annoying and forced.

[Renmauzo | 1,199]

Off the heels of Final Fantasy IX, I was excited for X at the time; I ended up sorely disappointed.

The story was obtuse and largely forgettable; I beat this game shortly after release, and unlike most other games I've played and remember in great detail, I wouldn't be able to tell you what it was about now. I only used half the character lineup, and the final boss was a real joke: After X-Zone in FF1, I always try some version of 'Undead/Life' on bosses just in case, and laughed when it worked for this game.

Without going in depth on every beat I didn't care for in this game, I'll just close by saying that I found it to be a monumental disappointment, and a huge waste of time, with the only reason for seeing it through being that I bought it at launch for full price.

2/10 

[A_Feisty_Pickle | 244]

I guess I am partially biased as this was my first RPG. I was 9 when this came out and was like anything else I had ever played. I still go back and revisit it every few years. 

Pros

• The story still holds up today IMO. I liked almost all the characters. Tidus is whiny but I feel like it's intentionally done.
• The sphere grid is really nice, especially in subsequent playthroughs where you can do what I believe is 'Expert' sphere grid where everyone starts in the middle and you can level your characters however you want. I don't think this was added until the international version though, or at least I don't remember it on the original PS2 release. 
• The fact you could see ~10 moves ahead of you in battle made it feel more strategic to me. A lot of games it's a guessing game on when your next turn will be. 
• International version adds a lot of extra bosses including the dark aeons which increases the difficulty. 

Cons

• Definitely Linear
• Blitzball is not my cup of tea. At least you can score a point and hide behind your goal. 
• Some of the ultimate weapons are a pain. Looking at you 'dodge 200 lightning bolts'. 
• I didn't care for the temple puzzles, but it added some variety. 

[RH | 4,903]

I gave it a 6. Though it was a great game, beyond the standard tropes, it didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game. I agree with @peg that this is when they diverged from what mad ethe series feel like Final Fantasy. I didn't care for the grid system. However, I think I feel that way because to me, that's not very "Final Fantasy". I need my XP, dang it!

But as a novel approach to level players in a non-FF game, it's kind of cool. I guess.

[Hammerfestus | 3,833]

I really liked it.  9.  I hate People whining about linear.  Take your open world storyless fetch quest garbage and stick it in the disposal.  Along with your hands.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

I haven't played this since about 2004, but to my memory:

• Loved the battle system
• Loved the sphere grid
• Did not care for the characters or character designs
• Still have no idea what the story was supposed to be about

[spacepup | 2,404]

I'm pretty sure I had over 100 hours in this game the first time I played it, and enjoyed it quite a bit.  Was it my favorite Final Fantasy? no.  But, I enjoyed the game.  I did like the Sphere grid, and I actually liked the story ok though it was a bit weird.  I thought the world was interesting and a creative jump from 9.  I much preferred 9 which was more traditional FF.

It's actually one thing I like about the Final Fantasy series, especially through now.  That they don't just put out the exact same formula each time - they change it up and sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't, but it does keep the series interesting enough for me.  

[RH | 4,903]

Regarding the story, I didn't find it to hard to understand.  But, it's my armchair culture-studying that taught me that a large part of the Japanese mythos and pseudo-religion of the people is the idea of the world perpetually being destroyed and reborn/made.  Once you get this, soooo many Final Fantasy's make sense.  It's basically a retelling of Japanese classic literature like our western stories so often tell the standard "heroes tale" progression.

[Sumez | 2,941]

57 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

I really liked it.  9.  I hate People whining about linear.  Take your open world storyless fetch quest garbage and stick it in the disposal.  Along with your hands.

The's a pretty wide gap between "open world storyless fetch quests" and literally just a straight corridor through the entire game. Most RPGs have places they want you to go, but still give you the option of whether you actually go there, and usually reward some exploration.

Better examples of really open ended (J)RPGs would be Dragon Quest 2 and 3, or Romancing SaGa 1, 2 and 3, and I'd absolutely love more games like that. But that's a high bar, and I'm completely content with something more like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 6. But FF10 is way more constricted than those as well.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Sumez

[spacepup | 2,404]

If you think FFX is linear, I can't wait to see your comments about FFXIII hahaha!

[Sumez | 2,941]

FXIII just feels like FFX all over again in that regard  

[MagusSmurf | 577]

Great presentation, story and characters, battle system, and upgrade system.

Could have probably used less linearity. Needs cutscene skip for replays, which not even the remasters have due apparently to a programming issue. I’m not that fond of Seymour. Some people weren’t happy with the voice acting, and Yuna’s in particular? I wasn’t overly bothered though. laughing scene forever

Tidus isn’t that whiny. You haters were just immature.

9/10

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Hah FF13, the sequels could crawl under a rock that's for sure.  I really don't in the slightest mind linear, but if I had to throw FF10 and 13 in a match up, 13 destroys it, far better game, story, combat system, whatever.

I saw that comment earlier the point made before breaking down a review saying it was their first RPG and as such first Final Fantasy.  It got me thinking, Final Fantasies seem to create rose tinted fanbases truly ever since the thing crawled out of Nintendo's control.  The insane media blitz, the Sony hype, all of it with FF7 -- the game rates in like two camps too, those who started there and refuse to see or just don't understand the faults with that piece of mediocrity because that's their only and original point of reference so it set the bar for millions.  FF10 then on the next console (PS2) did much the same once more, whole new base of people, lots of press, etc...and again, mediocre.  Square along the way forgot what aside from some carry overs in spells, summons, items, 'CID' etc what really made final fantasy, final fantasy over a period of technically 6 titles.  Not entirely though, FF9 was a 16bit throwback, but since that one return to form, it has been one weird ride, a very drunk roller coaster ride with massive ups and downs.  Consistency is definitely not relatable to the series and hasn't been for ages.

[RH | 4,903]

To that point, today if you wanted to define "What makes a Final Fantasy game 'Final Fantasy'", I'm not sure you can come up with a standard set of tropes that matches everyone one. I've not played them all, but my guess would be that there are Chocobos and you will be on an airship... at some point. Cid is a common one but I'm not 100% sure he's in every game. In fact, I'm not even sure about the airships either in later games, so we might just be left with Chocobos.

If SE ever drops the Chocobos, then they have truly lost their way with these games.

[AstralSoul | 502]

In my top 4 FF games. FF9 is my favorite but 10, 7 and 12 are right behind it. I go back and forth between which is my second favorite. FF10 is, to me, the definitive final Fantasy. I know it's not traditional but it has everything you need for an epic RPG. I love the story, I love the world, I love the characters, I love the soundtrack, I love the battle system. I love everything about this game. I know people hate Tidus and that there's no world map, and whatever else, but I really do think it's the perfect FF game. 10/10.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

I liked it. I don't think it was as good as VII or IX, but it's still a great game in its own right. 8/10.

[RH | 4,903]

Oh, and one more thing to chime in about.  Regarding "Tidus is whiny"  I'm not entirely sure he is.  I mean, many protagonists in RPGs have had the solid ability to whine when they wanted, but they weren't voice acted.  It's easier to make read-text sound a bit more commanding, or nonchalant if that's how you want it to sound in your brain.  This was an early voice acted game by Squaresoft.  To me, Tidus isn't much worse than many other protagonists and a sub-par voice over only made it worse.

And yes, you are looking at the game with rose colored glasses if you can write off the laughing scene.  It's horrible.  Regardless, pointing it out and using it as a defense of why this game is "bad" or even the voice acting was bad is a bit of cherry picking.  To me, it also felt like the entire dialog was just poorly edited together so all of the dialog feels unrealistic and force, and that's where the laugh scene comes in-- it's the absolute worst example.

I only bring it up because sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.  Mute the audio if you hate it, or just except that SE was still learning out to properly localize audio tracks back then.  The game was a stepping stone and I'm sure newer entries are better, although I wouldn't know since it's the last in the series I've seriously played.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

Square was also just learning how to make 3D graphics when they created Final Fantasy VII.  Rationalization aside, it's still an ugly ass game.

[CMR | 519]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:22 AM, peg said:

Oh boy here we go.  On one hand it has some cool battles and an excellent sound track. On the other hand you have to slog through one of the worst stories with some of the most annoying characters ever put into a video game.  I still can't get over how annoying and what a whiny little bitch Titus was, and it's all done with actual voice acting which makes it 1000x worse.  The story was just fucking awful and made no sense whatsoever.

 

This game really marks where the series started to lose it's way and become something completely unrecognizable to those of us who had been playing the games since the beginning.  I was tempted to go 0/10 since I really do hate most of it but then I remembered FF X-2 is a real game that was actually made and released to the public so FFX is not the low bar somehow.

 

2/10.

If the newest game trailers for Final Fantasy Origin are any indication you might want to bump it up to 3.

 

If there's one good thing I can say about FFX, it's the battle system was a good evolution of the turn based system.  I really don't know why Square wants FF to be an action game.

Edited June 20, 2021 by CMR

[Sumez | 2,941]

6 hours ago, CMR said:

If the newest game trailers for Final Fantasy Origin are any indication you might want to bump it up to 3.

 

Supposedly, according to people who played the demo, it is actually a fun game.

But hoooly hell, that trailer is cringeworthy. I hope the full game allows you to turn off characters.