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VGS NES Weekly Contest - Vice Project Doom!


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MemberPosted
4 minutes ago, PII said:

I'd be curious to know how close. 聽I def. think it could be done, but for me at this juncture it would require some extended fine tuning...

http://archive.nes.science/nintendoage-forums/nintendoage.com/forum/messageview1857.html?catid=31&threadid=173601

I know I play it way too safe to get the very high scores. It's so grueling that I just hate having to start over.

Edited by mbd39
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2 minutes ago, Krunch said:

Slight thing is that in that contest weren鈥檛 we beating the final boss too? I don鈥檛 remember the point bonus but I have to assume it鈥檚 pretty hefty. 聽Theoretically that鈥檚 not a pure gain though because you could use the time to farm in the main part of the last level.

No, it was the same rules as this contest.

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1 hour ago, PII said:

I'd be curious to know how close. 聽I def. think it could be done, but for me at this juncture it would require some extended fine tuning...

I think I had 671K if I鈥檓 not wrong (with full boss bonus)

wrong: 687K with same rules as this.聽 Damn.聽 Wish I was still that good

I gotta say I thought I was gonna snipe lock this one. 聽I practiced all week, yesterday聽was my main day and I got my run early on. 聽Today was really busy with stuff and I had some emergency slots lined up in case someone exceeded, some at the end though which are worthless really, there鈥檚 too much pressure at the end to be able to play optimally like this.聽 So scheduling is whatev. 聽My real problem was that I was way under the optimal farm for that level that鈥檚 kinda like a maze you gotta move through vertically, timer resets there then to enter the last static screen and then boss for timer points. 聽This was a level that in my 2017 run I was killing it on and not doing that homework was a brutal hit for me. 聽My electric level still in the -1 yellow part wasn鈥檛 super amazing either but I won鈥檛 kick myself too hard for that since it鈥檚 also not good to blow a run for any incremental point. 聽Still though, you exceeded 600K Pii,聽so that鈥檚 getting quite high in my opinion without the bonus at the end, I bet you鈥檙e faster at farming then me. 聽Still I鈥檓 curious how you tackled some of the levels,聽where you end into a boss but you can make some net gains still by exceeding the per second gain on your farm reps then going into the boss with your minimum time needed (or +5 seconds or whatever for a buffer cause you can鈥檛 split reps anyway and most of the good ones are longer than 5). 聽The last part聽with the pink rats before the boss is a good example of this, and it has meat too, I was getting聽about 1600 pts per 10 second rep versus the timer standard of 1000, and it can probably be done faster than 10 seconds a rep. Many other examples. 聽Anyway I鈥檓 pissed at myself for not picking up my socks more, it was those earlyish middle levels specifically pits in the waterfall/swamp sequence that was just destroying my realtime. 聽This is war now Pii

Edited by Krunch
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10 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

No, it was the same rules as this contest.

It was???? Holy shit! 聽I was defs way more devoted that time thinking back. I took it for granted that I didn鈥檛 do all that well, but now that I think back to the run the only part I hadn鈥檛 optimized within my framework then was the apes and such on the genetic lab level - had an excess of like 30 seconds leaving that and it鈥檚 a profitable zone (maybe the best one(s)聽in the game)

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3 minutes ago, Krunch said:

I think I had 671K if I鈥檓 not wrong (with full boss bonus)

I gotta say I thought I was gonna snipe lock this one. 聽I practiced all week, yesterday聽was my main day and I got my run early on. 聽Today was really busy with stuff and I had some emergency slots lined up in case someone exceeded, some at the end though which are worthless really, there鈥檚 too much pressure at the end to be able to play optimally like this.聽 So scheduling is whatev. 聽My real problem was that I was way under the optimal farm for that level that鈥檚 kinda like a maze you gotta move through vertically, timer resets there then to enter the last static screen and then boss for timer points.

You mean 8-2? I was disappointed because I couldn't even find a good point pressing spot in that level so I barely tried or my score would've been better.

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And that鈥檚 what ultimately undid my process here I think, was thinking that I would automatically exceed my last bar with enough practice. 聽I fell short of myself. 聽I think I鈥檓 gonna leave this cart out for a few months and really start to devote myself to it. 聽That last play in 2017 I remember thinking that 715,000 was the golden bar

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1 minute ago, mbd39 said:

You mean 8-2? I was disappointed because I couldn't even find a good point pressing spot in that level so I barely tried or my score would've been better.

Don鈥檛 sweat it too much. 聽It鈥檚 only a gain of 600 points per 10 seconds give or take, because your opting to not take the timer bonus for the time you spend so you have to subtract 1000 per rep. 聽I wouldn鈥檛 call it an important area, but the meat and no ledges does make it one of the safest ones.

the area I didn鈥檛 do my homework is much more important IMO

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3 minutes ago, Krunch said:

Don鈥檛 sweat it too much. 聽It鈥檚 only a gain of 600 points per 10 seconds give or take, because your opting to not take the timer bonus for the time you spend so you have to subtract 1000 per rep. 聽I wouldn鈥檛 call it an important area, but the meat and no ledges does make it one of the safest ones.

the area I didn鈥檛 do my homework is much more important IMO

There is no timer penalty for 8-2, actually. For some reason you get a full 250 seconds again in the screen right before the boss.

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13 minutes ago, Krunch said:

This is war now Pii

Them's fightin' woids, eh?

As far as 8-2 it's not a very good stage for farming. 聽I took out the same "donut thrower" over and over as efficiently as possible, but you only need about 20 seconds to get through the level after that and said "donut thrower"聽can be done a few times in a 10 sec interval so it's not too, too bad. 聽8-1 has a wonderful farming location right before going down the first ladder... 聽Feel like I did quite well as far as scouting out those locations in each relevant stage and figuring out the timing/optimal movement pattern, particularly as I was so focused initially on no-deathing it that I did not realize until early Saturday that there are a lot of timers going to waste w/o farming; uff da. 聽The absolute hardest thing, I think, is when I'm pushing the farming to the last possible sec. or as close as I dare and then some unexpected trouble pops up during the run to the end of the stage. 聽It's very easy to panic in that situation and end up down a run-ending pit of聽doom, which happened to me at least twice today.

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16 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

There is no timer penalty for 8-2, actually. For some reason you get a full 250 seconds again in the screen right before the boss.

Couple of levels like that where the goal is to hit that last single screen before the boss rather than the boss...

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36 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

There is no timer penalty for 8-2, actually. For some reason you get a full 250 seconds again in the screen right before the boss.

Sorry I was wrong about the number, I was talking about 7-2, the one with the pink rats in the green sewer.聽 Yeah 8-2 (purple electric level right?) has 2 resets so thats a very juicy level on the whole and another area where I came a little short.聽 My opinion of best farming spot is near the start of 8-2, the first tire throwing guy I think?聽 You can kill him first (400) and then jump up to kill 2 easy floating metal orbs for 300 each and one of them drops a water bottle so its also a safe spot.聽 (1100/rep, maybe 1200?)聽 No pits below just yet in that part either -safe.

I was doing a split strategy though, cause isn't there that tire guy at the end with the meat before it goes to the final 3rd screen with the reset?聽 It's not too profitable but it's safe and right by the exit.聽 I did this split strategy in case I screwed up the walk between these points, was probably overcautious.

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5 minutes ago, Krunch said:

Sorry I was wrong about the number, I was talking about 7-2

Yeah, I didn't try to farm 7-2 at all, just focused on the stages where any time left over is wasted. 聽At any rate anywhere聽you can farm 1600 points in a ten second interval it's worth more than that ten second interval left on the clock at the end..

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26 minutes ago, PII said:

Them's fightin' woids, eh?

As far as 8-2 it's not a very good stage for farming. 聽I took out the same "donut thrower" over and over as efficiently as possible, but you only need about 20 seconds to get through the level after that and said "donut thrower"聽can be done a few times in a 10 sec interval so it's not too, too bad. 聽8-1 has a wonderful farming location right before going down the first ladder... 聽Feel like I did quite well as far as scouting out those locations in each relevant stage and figuring out the timing/optimal movement pattern, particularly as I was so focused initially on no-deathing it that I did not realize until early Saturday that there are a lot of timers going to waste w/o farming; uff da. 聽The absolute hardest thing, I think, is when I'm pushing the farming to the last possible sec. or as close as I dare and then some unexpected trouble pops up during the run to the end of the stage. 聽It's very easy to panic in that situation and end up down a run-ending pit of聽doom, which happened to me at least twice today.

yeah 8-1 is definitely way better, pretty sure we're using the same spot (screen scrolls right, ends with a Donut Thrower with meat at the end of the sequence?).聽 I left a lot of points on the table in 8-1, I was probably low health or something.

I wasn't sure if people would clue in to the wasted timers who werent around for last one, I sniped last one, and this time just stayed quiet.聽 Maybe I should have been more bold and brought up the stakes for myself, maybe would have tightened some cracks.

The pit factor in combination with the farming is absolutely the hardest part for me as well.聽 The farming itself, not too hard, and many ways to just outsmart the AI, or use bombs or guns to make certain parts significantly easier to move through, but when it comes to pits, it's way way more risky than anything that gain points.聽 Gotta do it though.聽 Timing is important in this one, its a speedy game but coming in off kilter can totally mess sequences.聽 I use the knockback to my advantage often and just burn through but that's not viable on some levels (that damn swamp level after the waterfall with the fuckin blue fish).

Timer running out sucks too, but that's just part of the maximization game.聽 The pressure of the pits is the real killer.

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1 minute ago, PII said:

Yeah, I didn't try to farm 7-2 at all, just focused on the stages where any time left over is wasted. 聽At any rate anywhere聽you can farm 1600 points in a ten second interval it's worth more than that ten second interval left on the clock at the end..

Good call man.聽 I was trying to raise the bar on my end and that approach screwed me in a different way.聽 My biggest fuck up was extreme negligence on 6-2. These are minor gains but are still important, I'm sure there are many other spots in the game, I did it before the tank boss too and it's not bad.聽 I opted to do it on 7-2 because of how safe it was, bombs can help some of these higher-level reps too, there's always some ceiling to push.聽聽 Seems to me like 9-2 is another candidate for this, but I scared to try... and it's gotta do with the apes since they do most of the movement work for you.

a big question is whether it's possible on the early levels before any timer funniness.聽 I was doing better just burning through on certain parts.

If anyone wants to see some of the notes I made up I can share em.聽 Didn't examine some of the early levels... 6-2 included.

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4 minutes ago, Krunch said:

yeah 8-1 is definitely way better, pretty sure we're using the same spot (screen scrolls right, ends with a Donut Thrower with meat at the end of the sequence?

Yup, that's the one.

Timer running out is the other half of what I was getting at about screwing up when deliberately聽only leaving a few seconds to spare and panic potentially setting in. 聽It feels awful, lol; especially if it's say, at the floating platforms in the waterfall of the jungle level and the program just doesn't give you a legitimate series of platforms to jump onto and yer stuck waiting; uggh. 聽There's a way to manipulate the program there to give you what you need but it was kinda iffy for me..

..If you can handle the blue fish and the blue fish-poops then the only thing you need be concerned with is those pink birds...

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13 minutes ago, PII said:

Yup, that's the one.

Timer running out is the other half of what I was getting at about screwing up when deliberately聽only leaving a few seconds to spare and panic potentially setting in. 聽It feels awful, lol; especially if it's say, at the floating platforms in the waterfall of the jungle level and the program just doesn't give you a legitimate series of platforms to jump onto and yer stuck waiting; uggh. 聽There's a way to manipulate the program there to give you what you need but it was kinda iffy for me..

..If you can handle the blue fish and the blue fish-poops then the only thing you need be concerned with is those pink birds...

Yeah that waterfall was mindfucking me too, early on in practice and then later because the subsequent section was ruining me just from pits and pressure.聽 I like just farming that red ninja before the grass you have to cut cause it's an easy sequence, but then it comes down to knowing when to leave and not being too slow.聽 Gave myself a buffer there cause it's only a few thousand.聽 I find the waterfall works most surefire if you just aggressively work yourself up to second highest platform on the right, this should open up a legitimate path for you that you can do in like 9-12 second (maybe less?) but you have to stand on aforementioned platform and wait a few seconds for it to open to run left, then youre home free up top

It just came down to the pressure, I tried a few hail mary runs, and the blue fish pellets were messin me hard.聽 I basically have two ways where I go full burner run and get ahead of the fish, or I take my time on the platforms and slowly duck through the pellets.聽聽 Birds, fuck em, they dont give me troubles anymore and I'll gladly fly and stab through all of them.聽 Some of em I use to bump myself forward through chaotic spots (not the best long-term approach, though).

Edited by Krunch
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@Krunch

6-2 has another wonderful farming turf right near the end if you can do just a bit of figuring/timing... only takes 10 secs to run to the end.

7-2 was far too scary for farming, too many enemies/pits, just wanted to get through.

Briefly considered farming on 9-2 and rejected it because I had a really good flow going on that stage and could own the boss pretty quick. 聽9-1 was also a dope farming level, but with a long run for the border and potential hangups near the end...

Earlier levels 1-3 didn't seem worth trying to farm at all. 聽Enemies are worth too little/not congested enough for the most part, maybe a spot though on 3-1.

Best thing that happened for me was def. @mbd39聽putting up a big score to relieve me of my mid week doldrums, lol.

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2 minutes ago, PII said:

@Krunch

6-2 has another wonderful farming turf right near the end if you can do just a bit of figuring/timing... only takes 10 secs to run to the end.

7-2 was far too scary for farming, too many enemies/pits, just wanted to get through.

Briefly considered farming on 9-2 and rejected it because I had a really good flow going on that stage and could own the boss pretty quick. 聽9-1 was also a dope farming level, but with a long run for the border and potential hangups near the end...

Earlier levels 1-3 didn't seem worth trying to farm at all. 聽Enemies are worth too little/not congested enough for the most part, maybe a spot though on 3-1.

Best thing that happened for me was def. @mbd39聽putting up a big score to relieve me of my mid week doldrums, lol.

Yeah that's something I wasnt really able to crack in practice, that late 6-2 turf, I do the run around on the northwest part of the complex instead, it's nice cause it's not quite as stale as some of the earlier farming.聽 Timewise I'm not sure yet how it compares, it's also a little more dangerous for health compared to the latter so I also will skew towards the latter as I keep practicing this game. 聽 My bad here was not re-learning what I know enough, cause I know that I maxed that level hard last time.

Yeah 7-2 ultimately is a fairly low gain, because no reset.聽 I don't see any spot that compares to right at the end in terms of safety and amount of points.聽 I go crazy on that part huckin' bombs (which regen) and letting the rats carry and damage me to the end.

9-1 is really good, I like the part right before the first (?) ladder, tire throwing guy at the end with water health, and an ape and a gromit come up.聽 You can also boost it by hurling bombs at the leftmost tire donut guy when you're resetting the sqeuence.

It might be possible for the first 3 levels but i dunno, I know where you're talking about probably, but im still not sure.聽 All the enemies are kinda crap there cause I dont think leopards drop anything but coins, and those halloween guys need 2 hits for still only 200.聽 Probably better to just go full on through it and use projectiles to pick up spare points that aren't as "in your way" so to speak

My week was totally opposite, I had lots of things to do, but still got a healthy amount of time in.聽聽 I definitely know where I went wrong on many fronts.聽 And it does sting quite a bit

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Final level also has spots.聽 I prefer in the last chamber, where the green acrobat guys come up over you, it's pretty easy to control all that and rack up some nice gains, 1 or 2 of em drop health.聽 I wasnt really worried about that cause I knew it was a small gain and you're right at the finish line - but still did it a bit, despite leaving like 40 seconds on the clock after it was all said and done.

The funny thing about this game is that the minions are very effective but all the bosses are total pushovers.

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14 minutes ago, Krunch said:

Yeah 7-2 ultimately is a fairly low gain, because no reset.聽 I don't see any spot that compares to right at the end in terms of safety and amount of points

That would be the spot, rest is too scary.

11 minutes ago, Krunch said:

The funny thing about this game is that the minions are very effective but all the bosses are total pushovers.

I think most games are like that. 聽The thing about the minions is they're a sustained聽succession and one tiny lapse in concentration can change things quite for the worse even after you know the deal, but once you know the boss it usually turns out to be little more than an overblown聽windbag.

In spite of the driving/shooting stages being way easy (but still fun) this is a very well designed game. It's these marathon indulgences that allow a really stellar聽program to show through in ways that would otherwise go unnoticed to significant degree.

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13 minutes ago, PII said:

That would be the spot, rest is too scary.

I think most games are like that. 聽The thing about the minions is they're a sustained聽succession and one tiny lapse in concentration can change things quite for the worse even after you know the deal, but once you know the boss it usually turns out to be little more than an overblown聽windbag.

In spite of the driving/shooting stages being way easy (but still fun) this is a very well designed game. It's these marathon indulgences that allow a really stellar聽program to show through in ways that would otherwise go unnoticed to significant degree.

Good point.聽 I don't always go so deep in games that the bosses become effortless, games like Ninja Gaiden 2 or Ghosts n Goblins have bosses that just seem so daunting to me.聽 But, in games that's often a function of how good the minions before it were in the level.聽 I did think that the Snowman/Jason ripoff was hilariously easy, when he snowballs you can just stand beside him on the platform and chunk him away while simultaneously destroying one of his snowballs, that's the only one where I think it's shoddy game design though.聽 It's quite a tight game overall, and it moves very fast.聽 If there's a timing error it's on the player, it's a fair game.聽 My least favorite thing about the game is the best, most minor complaint you could have which is the color palette is drab.聽 It has it all and I think if you had to show aliens the NES you could show them Vice Project Doom even though it wasn't actually super popular.聽

On the note of the shooting and driving levels, I have to say that the Zelda-lookin boss at the end of the last driving level scares me more than any of them, cause it's a fair fight...

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@Krunch聽That 2nd centipede made me nervous for a hot minute but really isn't too bad.

The fast pace combined with聽explorable nooks and crannies in the gameplay once your sufficiently into it are what make it great. 聽Graphics are very good but not stellar, music is good but not particularly memorable. 聽Sound Effects are great. 聽Control is solid. 聽Next time we do this I suggest sword, er whoops ahem, I mean 'Laser Whip', Only. 聽Seemed like the story/cutscenes were pretty cool too. 聽Now that we're done, I think I'll go back and figure out what that's聽about...

GnG is a whole other caliber. 聽Two Unicorns at the end of the 2nd level on the 2nd or 3rd play-through is like a couple of Thugs聽respecting nothing but violence deciding to use you as the center in a grilled cheese cuz you looked at 'em the wrong way.. 聽= almost no defense to be had beyond taking 'em one at a time -聽only a correct offense without flaw.

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20 minutes ago, PII said:

@Krunch聽That 2nd centipede made me nervous for a hot minute but really isn't too bad.

The fast pace combined with聽explorable nooks and crannies in the gameplay once your sufficiently into it are what make it great. 聽Graphics are very good but not stellar, music is good but not particularly memorable. 聽Sound Effects are great. 聽Control is solid. 聽Next time we do this I suggest sword, er whoops ahem, I mean 'Laser Whip', Only. 聽Seemed like the story/cutscenes were pretty cool too. 聽Now that we're done, I think I'll go back and figure out what that's聽about...

GnG is a whole other caliber. 聽Two Unicorns at the end of the 2nd level on the 2nd or 3rd play-through is like a couple of Thugs聽respecting nothing but violence deciding to use you as the center in a grilled cheese cuz you looked at 'em the wrong way.. 聽= almost no defense to be had beyond taking 'em one at a time -聽only a correct offense without flaw.

Indeed, the only sad thing is that there is a 1-UP via 100 coins loop spot, or likely several, so the score can only be meaningful with the 1-life restriction.Still, 1-life becomes a great scramble game of trying to do it all, knock out every enemy, combined with the quick pace getting a literally perfect rap sheet level to level with all timer considerations of course - is hard as fuck.

I agree on all that about the graphics and stuff,聽the atmosphere elements are just okay but the important parts are strong.Laser whip only is interesting, but I thought it got revealed in chapter 9 that the whole time it was actually the Lost Sceptre of Old Detroit?Nah I didn鈥檛 follow along with that story at all either even though it seemed like they tried so hard at it

Those unicorns are a menace to myself and society. 聽I never even beat them, not聽the second one anyway. 聽And now I鈥檓 scared because, Ghosts n鈥 Goblins could easily be a tournament game this year聽馃ザ

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