Console Debate #31 Playstation 2

[Rocketship Evan | 55]

I gave it an 8. Mostly for just a few games I really like and having the best selection of 2 player co-op dungeon crawlers. 

Generally I feel it was this awkward generation between the purity, inventiveness and experimentation of PS1 and the the PS3/Xbox 360 generation where the games felt and looked so good.

Its my least favorite of the Playstation consoles.

[peg | 370]

For the most part it feels like a step back from the excellent library of the ps1.  I rarely find myself wanting to even turn it on these days.  Most of the sequels to ps1 games that I liked got somehow much worse on this system, especially established series like final fantasy, mega man, and metal gear solid, which basically became a parody of itself.

 

This was also the last console I ever purchased new on release.

 

Still, it does have one of the absolute best console exclusive shmups ever made in gradius v.  And I'd be lying to myself if I pretended i didn't have a ton of fun messin around with the gta games (not playing the actual missions though).

 

7/10.

[spacepup | 2,404]

PS2 is my favorite console, probably just above SNES.

Most of my thoughts have already been expressed above.  It's just such a versatile system with a huge and expansive library with tons of great games.

It has also been an absolute blast to explore in terms of imports.  There are all sorts of fun and interesting titles that never released in the US, and I've really enjoyed checking those out.

I participated in Sony's public beta program, and it was really neat trying out PS2 games before release, including FFXI beta which I really enjoyed testing, so that was a fun experience for me and makes PS2 pretty memorable.  But aside from that, I just think it has an awesome library of games, especially RPGs which I really like.

Glad to see others like PS2 so much!

 

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

9/10 yo.

Video games exploding out of their niche and into the real mainstream. Technology finally catches up to real life enough to bring universal consensus on the status of video games as a legit form of entertainment. Games are really mature at this point. Sports games are realistic, war simulation games are realistic, people are playing online with ease. The early AAA Blockbusters appear: Vice City, God of War, the Need for Speed games, etc. 

It set the template for console gaming as we still know it today. To this day controllers still look like the DualShock 2.

Besides VR, no real innovations have come since, other than improved graphics and whatever else makes games "theatrical" experiences these days. And I inlcude the Wii's motion controls in this statement, because specialized peripherals for controls have been around since the 70s. 

[AstralSoul | 502]

9/10 for sure. Probably would've given it a 10 but I'll admit I never gave this system as much love as it deserves. I was happy with GameCube and GBA back when it was around and by the time I got one, I played a handful of the best games it had to offer then moved on to PS3. I have since tried to correct that mistake but many of the games I want to play are 40+ hour RPGs which I no longer have time for anymore. But I can't deny the influence and the power the console had. Great system, one of the greatest of all time.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

7 minutes ago, AstralSoul said:

 40+ hour RPGs 

Understatement of the year.

[TDIRunner | 2,725]

For me, the PS2 generation seemed to be the largest jump in graphical quality from the previous generation.  One of the first games I played for the system was 007: Agent Under Fire and I was blown away by how good it looked.  It was a great system and I have a lot of good memories with it since it was basically my college gaming system.  

On the flip side, the PS2 was the first console I ever owned to fail on me and need replacement.  

[Robot_Ninjutsu | 122]

@TDIRunnerThe Dreamcast/PS2 era was when 3D got over its awkward phase and started looking presentable.

 

 

[Sumez | 2,933]

PS2 was like the NES/SNES/X360 of its generation. The one that had almost everything, and almost all the classics.
Even if you don't want to put up with the awful disc drive and the controllers that break the moment you touch the cable, it was impossible to ignore.

Tons of great titles, and a plethora of hidden gems, I have nearly 200 games just for this system, but a vast majority of them were picked up at the tail end of its life cycle. Curiously, it's a platform I have only revisited very rarely since it was "hot". 
If PS1 was this weird state between "retro" and "modern" video games, PS2 represented an extension of that, rather than an immediate step into the more streamlined 3D age, and as such the library is a strange mix of pure janky mess (Evergrace) and sleek, great looking masterpieces (God of War 2).
It was also the last bastion of arcade-like gameplay, which is probably where the PS2 gets the most points in my book - with games like Contra Shattered Soldier, Gradius V, the amazing EspGaluda port, and M2's Fantasy Zone 2 remake.

8/10, can't really justify giving it any less, despite not really feeling like ever dragging it out of the closet again.

[Estil | 1,261]

To be fair the rating should be based ONLY on the PS2's lineup.  Counting the PS1 backwards compatablity part is cheating.

[Sumer | 221]

I gave it a 6, only because I am still kinda discovering its games, but doing so at a snail's pace.    I went all-in on the Original Xbox and GameCube that generation, and only got a PS2 Slim right at the tailend...and I have very few games for it.  Mostly got it because the PS2 Slim and its associated stand looked really cool vertical.  

I don't like JRPGs post-16-bit era at all, so maybe another reason I went with the XBox that generation (along with the GameCube), as I had it in my head it was a JRPG machine.  I will have to start exploring its library more in the years ahead, as I am sure I missed some good, non-JRPG gems.

 

[asmikace | 68]

I would give it a 10 but giving a 8 out of pettiness that it killed the Dreamcast and hogged most of the gaming library.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Easy GOAT.

Look in any corner of the world and you’ll find a McDonald’s, Coca-Cola, and a Playstaton 2.

No, really. You’re probably never more than a half mile away from the nearest PS2 if you’re in anywhere in civilization with working electricity.

Edited June 12, 2021 by ThePhleo

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

2 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

Easy GOAT.

Look in any corner of the world and you’ll find a McDonald’s, Coca-Cola, and a Playstaton 2.

No, really. You’re probably never more than a half mile away from the nearest PS2 if you’re in anywhere in civilization with working electricity.

You're also never more than 200 feet from a Twilight book either

[Webhead123 | 675]

I have to be honest...I was not (and to some extent, still am not) a Sony-adopter, meaning that I've never owned a single Sony console until it was far into its life cycle/past its prime. I was gifted a PS1 by a friend sometime around 2003. I only bought a used PS2 in 2011-2012. My used PS3 was acquired in 2015 or so and the PS4 was a gift for my kids in 2019.

All that to say, I don't have very much nostalgia or even direct experience with the PS2. I've probably spent the least amount of time with it of all the Sony machines, truthfully. It's generation marked the beginning of homogenization of the home consoles, so only the exclusives really stand out to me. And the PS2 does have some pretty great exclusives. For that, I have to give the console an 8/10...even if I'm not exactly the best person to speak its praise.

I have a small collection of titles that I hope to one day complete. My aged Dualshock 2's are a bit fussy and I'm finding it tough to stay motivated trying to hunt down decent replacements.

I'm sure it's an amazing, generation-defining console for many...but I can't give it that much credit in terms of it's impact on me. I can, however, appreciate that it has some killer apps and I wouldn't blame a more experienced Sony-ist from wanting to call this a GoAT.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

5 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

You're also never more than 200 feet from a Twilight book either

Better comparison would be the Bible.

Agree with it or not, the Bible is the best selling book of all time and is an easy GOAT in its medium.

Second console runner up in sheer quantity sold is the PS4, followed by the PS1.

The market dominance of Sony is undeniable. Sony is to Nintendo, as Nintendo is to Atari.

[Californication | 1,477]

Quantity by itself isn't a good measurement of how good a console is.

For example, you say the bible is an apt comparison to the PS2 because the quanitiy sold.But most bibles that are sold are not read. 

When you hear people talk about movie sales they atleast compare the number of tickets sold to the population at the time so you get a sense of how many potential customers wanted to see the movie since population is always increasing.

And your comparison between Nintendo and Atari by Playstation and Nintendo needs some work. There is a reason that some of the best games on the PS4 look graphically like the Nes and not the Atari.

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Californication

[phart010 | 1,705]

14 hours ago, asmikace said:

I would give it a 10 but giving a 8 out of pettiness that it killed the Dreamcast and hogged most of the gaming library.

So your saying it was so good that you are subtracting 2 points just out of spite

[gandalf1 | 26]

It was the console standard for its time. And it was the right console to help pave the road for a generation of gamers who were growing up at the time, much like the NES was for me. I had just turned 20 when the PS2 dropped. I wasn't that much into games at the time, but I recognize what it was for an entire generation. I didn't own one, but one of my better friends did, and I played the major AAA titles on it. Now that I own one I should go back and play all those games people recommend. 7/10 for me.

[Kguillemette | 1,543]

9/10. It is simply that good. I do with there was a high quality wireless controller for it though. Is there one?

[cj_robot | 540]

3 hours ago, Californication said:

And your comparison between Nintendo and Atari by Playstation and Nintendo needs some work. There is a reason that some of the best games on the PS4 look graphically like the Nes and not the Atari.

 

I believe the point was that Sony replaced Nintendo as the dominant console manufacturer the same way Nintendo had previously replaced Atari in that respect.

[Californication | 1,477]

29 minutes ago, cj_robot said:

I believe the point was that Sony replaced Nintendo as the dominant console manufacturer the same way Nintendo had previously replaced Atari in that respect.

I see. He says "market dominance" though and I still don't think it is accurate because Atari was pretty much doneski after the Nes. Nintendo lost marketshare to Playstation but they still had relatively successful consoles.

And this is still leveraging that the best measurement of a console is quantity sold which a console should not be graded on in a vaccum. 

(I personally go in on the Playstation harder than Nintendo. I don't own a Switch. I am just disagreeing with the metric's being used to judge the GOAT.) 

[Robot_Ninjutsu | 122]

How about "ability to influence the market"? Atari was in control, but lost it completely with the crash & the NES. Nintendo took Atari's place.

Nintendo had it, SEGA took some of it. Nintendo skipped the 32-bit generation, letting others gain influence.  Sony ends up taking Nintendo's place.

 

My impressions from the PS2/XBOX/GC era was this (in this order)

You got a PS2.

If you didn't want a PS2, then you got an XBOX

If you didn't want a PS2 or an XBOX, THEN you got a GameCube.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

11 hours ago, Californication said:

Quantity by itself isn't a good measurement of how good a console is.

For example, you say the bible is an apt comparison to the PS2 because the quanitiy sold.But most bibles that are sold are not read. 

When you hear people talk about movie sales they atleast compare the number of tickets sold to the population at the time so you get a sense of how many potential customers wanted to see the movie since population is always increasing.

And your comparison between Nintendo and Atari by Playstation and Nintendo needs some work. There is a reason that some of the best games on the PS4 look graphically like the Nes and not the Atari.

 

This whole series is subjective to personal taste, but there’s been a clear cut trend that the more systems sold, the better the platform.

Also, the sheer numbers are STAGGERING for the system.

1. Across all regions there are roughly 4,400 game titles, at a time when Xbox only had 1,000, Gamecube only 650, and the Dreamcast only 625. This is roughly HALF of all games released within one entire console generation in a mature and stable time in gaming history (meaning, Gen 1 was 1 platform and long clones, 2 was basically atari and it’s crash, 3 was basically the NES recovering the industry, and 4 is where we see the video game economy stabilize)
2. It had EVERY genre you would love at the time, and it had MULTIPLE of each. There was more than just “something for everyone”. No no no, there was an abundance of entertainment for everyone.
3. 20 years after release it’s still the #1 best selling platform of all time, even outnumbering the runner up company, Nintendo’s Wii by OVER 50%. PlayStation is the only other platform that competes with itself...also the Wii was considered a “Casual” platform loved by everyone....home video games are only 49 years old, and I think it will still hold the #1 spot for a few more years, meaning for HALF of all video game history it would have been the #1 console. (Ps: Switch isn’t a console)
4. It’s library is even larger if you count PS1 titles through backwards compatibility...I guess you can say the PS3 is the true GOAT in that case since it can do everything a PS2 can and more. Still, it’s another feather in the PS2 cap.
5. It was a DVD player at a time when that was still amazing.

 

Here’s a better comparison.

PS2 is to Xbox, Gamecube, and Dreamcast how SNES is to Genesis, TG-16, and Neo Geo.

Those two generations of game history are arguably the best for diversity and quality of platforms and titles available....and I’d say the PS2 outperforms the SNES.

 

...

the only greater GOAT is the Personal Computer, or the Mobile Phone.

nothing else in the history of electronics have put more video games into more people’s hands....and that to me means a lot.

Edited June 12, 2021 by ThePhleo

[Californication | 1,477]

40 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

This whole series is subjective to personal taste, but there’s been a clear cut trend that the more systems sold, the better the platform.

Also, the sheer numbers are STAGGERING for the system.

1. Across all regions there are roughly 4,400 game titles, at a time when Xbox only had 1,000, Gamecube only 650, and the Dreamcast only 625. This is roughly HALF of all games released within one entire console generation in a mature and stable time in gaming history (meaning, Gen 1 was 1 platform and long clones, 2 was basically atari and it’s crash, 3 was basically the NES recovering the industry, and 4 is where we see the video game economy stabilize)
2. It had EVERY genre you would love at the time, and it had MULTIPLE of each. There was more than just “something for everyone”. No no no, there was an abundance of entertainment for everyone.
3. 20 years after release it’s still the #1 best selling platform of all time, even outnumbering the runner up, Nintendo Wii by OVER 50% and the Wii was considered a “Casual” platform loved by everyone....home video games are only 49 years old, and I think it will still hold the #1 spot for a few more years, meaning for HALF of all video game history it would have been the #1 console. (Ps: Switch isn’t a console)
4. It’s library is even larger if you count PS1 titles through backwards compatibility...I guess you can say the PS3 is the true GOAT in that case since it can do everything a PS2 can and more. Still, it’s another feather in the PS2 cap.
5. It was a DVD player at a time when that was still amazing.

 

Here’s a better comparison.

PS2 is to Xbox, Gamecube, and Dreamcast how SNES is to Genesis, TG-16, and Neo Geo.

Those two generations of game history are arguably the best for diversity and quality of platforms and titles available....and I’d say the PS2 outperforms the SNES.

 

...

the only greater GOAT is the Personal Computer, or the Mobile Phone.

nothing else in the history of electronics have put more video games into more people’s hands....and that to me means a lot.

 

If you look at the number of units the Nes sold and compare it to the PS2, knowing no other information we know that the Nes would have a high probability of having less sales because the market was smaller. The Nes was in the 3rd generation and the PS2 was in the 6th generation.

Let's say we look at sales as a percentage of the market that way we can get rid of any skew from the changes in population and size of the market. Atari sales were what percentage of the market, 90%? Nes was what percentage 90%? These are just guesses, but the point I am trying to make is that if we look at the percentage of the market the data is still incomplete because most of us wouldn't rank the Nes and the Atari on the same level of greatness. 

So using quanitity sold is incomplete for measuring the goat. Quantity is more a measure of how popular a console is at a point in time. But goat should be a measurement over all consoles life cycles.  

Edit: I think I'd agree with the comparison between consoles (having never played the Neo Geo).

My top two are Nes and PS1 though. And I disagree that the PS2 is better than the Snes. The Snes def. had better 2D games. and a lot of quality titles across genres. The PS2 was superior in thr genres the Snes didn't have, but I prefer the 2d genre games more which is clearly subjective.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Californication