The new breed of collectors thread

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,055]

10 minutes ago, GPX said:

I think we can use this “thug life” analogy in a useful way to understand the negativity on repros.

I’ve always been an advocate for collectors who “collect for what they want”, whether loose carts, CIB, sealed, homebrews etc. Much like anyone can wish to dress and appear like an emo, a thug, a gang member or a deranged psychopath. As long as you don’t interfere with me and don’t break social rules, I’m ok with whatever you look like.

Now with the repros near 1:1 where there are a lot of dodgy stuff merging in the realms of scam and criminal activity, you are not just affecting me but an entire online game collecting community. This would be similar to a person looking like a thug or a deranged psychopath, AND engaging in actual deranged and psychopathic behaviours with criminal acts. This is something that shouldn’t be encouraged.

So your saying the guy in the reddit post is actively engaging in scam behavior because he doesn’t want to spend a ton of money? 

Im not even in favor of the product here. What I have a problem with is the “collect how they way I deem acceptable“ mentality I see going on here. 

[phart010 | 1,705]

Just saw a GBA repro of Castlevania double pack in the retro game store for sale for $120.

This is a store that normally catches these things, I was surprised this slipped by them. The guy at the store was quite embarrassed when I pointed it out to him.

[AdamW | 713]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

I agree that we can’t stop this repro trend, and that isn’t what I’ve been talking about. But for us to be more aware of the repercussions, and it is currently affecting us all in a subtle way. For instance, there is an increasing paranoia on our purchases on whether:

- a seal is legit or reseal

- box/cart/manual is legit or repro

The more repros and reseals that are produced (specifically the near identical 1:1), the more the paranoia will likely worsen. This isn’t likely to be a good thing for the hobby.

That's a perfectly legit issue but it's not actually what the thread was about, right? This didn't start off as a "people are buying repros unknowingly" thread, it started as a thread about people knowingly buying them. Those seem like completely different issues. One is a clear cut potential problem, the other seems a lot more subjective and gatekeeper-y.

[Robot_Ninjutsu | 122]

2 hours ago, GPX said:

I’ve always been an advocate for collectors who “collect for what they want”, whether loose carts, CIB, sealed, homebrews etc. Much like anyone can wish to dress and appear like an emo, a thug, a gang member or a deranged psychopath. As long as you don’t interfere with me and don’t break social rules, I’m ok with whatever you look like.

"Do whatever you want, just don't hurt anyone."

 

And do people really call finding 2-3 games at a store a "haul"?  I figure a "haul" denotes totes/boxes *FULL* of stuff, not a few items I found at Half Priced Books.

[AdamW | 713]

the reddit only gives you three choices of post 'type' - 'haul', 'collection' and 'discussion'. so 'haul' obviously gets used a lot. there's no 'two-things-i-got-from-the-store' choice.

[tidaldreams | 654]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

Just saw a GBA repro of Castlevania double pack in the retro game store for sale for $120.

This is a store that normally catches these things, I was surprised this slipped by them. The guy at the store was quite embarrassed when I pointed it out to him.

That may be because the art on the real one looks so bad that it looks like a repro itself. When I first saw the real one I honestly thought it was a repro.

Edited May 30, 2021 by tidaldreams

[Tanooki | 4,929]

I've got the recent 'haul' hehe yeah I know, of that Double Pack it does look pretty amateurish.  I don't keep tools on me, not that OCD and wired, just the receipt and it was opened at home to discover what I figured looking hard at it, it was real.

That's the issue here, the arm chair gatekeepers, the trolls who crusade against anyone who doesn't agree with their particular mindset of gatekeeper allowances.  It's like grow up, mind your own business, and stop attacking anything your precious sensibilities can't struggle to cope with.

Sure things are far more externally 1:1 to the point the last couple years really are just that.  But is it a problem?  Nope.  Only if you want it to be, and that, it a personal problem, until you gatekeeper crap in someone elses lawn over it.  Then you really DO have a problem, not just a YOU problem, but now your triggered behavior is damaging others.  Don't like it, move along, report it quietly, whatever, but pulling out the bell and going all town crier solves nothing clearly as it hadn't done so in the last 10-15 years of these things creeping towards progression.  If anything it HELPED them get more 1:1 faster because the whining trolling pointed out every flaw, repeatedly, to the point anyone could make a knock list of stuff NOT to do when making the next batch.  Goob job!

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:00 PM, MrWunderful said:

Does a bookcase full of fake games drop panties like legit grey squares? Don't think so. 
 

 

Wait, what? Women are impressed by this shit? I've been hiding my nerd trophies for years!

As for the actual topic at hand, I can't say I've given much thought to it one way or the other. When it comes to something benign like collecting videogames, people should do what makes them happy. Having a wall of repro NES boxes to show off the amazing retro art is actually kind of a cool idea. I suppose this could introduce a larger number of fakes into the market, but due diligence will always be the responsibility of the buyer in any market. I'll keep going after real stuff and these new folks can have the repros.

Edited May 30, 2021 by DoctorEncore

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

2 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

Wait, what? Women are impressed by this shit? I've been hiding my nerd trophies for years!

As for the actual topic at hand, I can't say I've given much thought to it one way or the other. When it comes to something benign like collecting videogames, people should do what makes them happy. Having a wall of repro NES boxes to show off the amazing retro art is actually kind of a cool idea. I suppose this could introduce a larger number of fakes into the market, but due diligence will always be the responsibility of the buyer in any market. I'll keep going after real stuff and these new folks can have the repros.

My rant aside, I was told in the Dragon Quest topic that "they" will not remake Dragon Quest I and II. And that Dragon Quest III was only being remade because it was the most popular title in the trilogy. After I thought I made it clear that I follow the Japanese portion of the franchise like others here follow cart variants of licensed NES games. 

But I am not entirely offended, just a bit deflated. Because I have seen how others can act when they loose their shit. Including those who claim to be legitimate fans of a franchise. Which is the primary reason why I am trying to stay neutral in a topic like this one. Because the only two groups that are an issue are the self-entitled and the scammers.

And also... I sold more than half of my collection, with me feeling happier doing it. And while I cannot do the "box art" concept, which is one of those reasons why I collect video games, I plan to translate all information tied to the Japan release of all Dragon Quest games. That way others know what to look out for, etc., when they are ready. 

[Strange | 1,700]

13 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

I'm starting to hate the word "haul" but I don't know why. It doesn't stem from this site more r/gamecollecting. Like look at this haul of 2 shitty Wii games I got! But it's not even an amount or what type of games the person got more trivializing or objectifying the hobby. Why can't you just say look at these games I got?

Maybe you old farts are rubbing off on me I don't know. I've used the word in the past I'm sure. 

My (least) favorite trope from r/gamecollecting is:

*posts picture of something pricey like Panic Restaurant, Haunting Ground, Sculptor’s Cut*

“Picked this up for $2, how did I do? ”

Edited May 31, 2021 by Strange

[GPX | 1,369]

11 hours ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

So your saying the guy in the reddit post is actively engaging in scam behavior because he doesn’t want to spend a ton of money? 

Im not even in favor of the product here. What I have a problem with is the “collect how they way I deem acceptable“ mentality I see going on here. 

There are 2 separate but concurrent issues:

1. Are repros ok or not? Yes they are.

2. Is 1:1 near identical repros ok or not? I don’t believe so.

Getting back to the point of the thread regarding the Reddit question, we don’t know what the guy’s intentions are and what kind of repros he’s after. The point is, if it’s a near 1:1 identical, it’s a high probability that it will end up being scam material to future unsuspecting buyers, whether it’s with the first buyer or the next few buyers down the chain.

[GPX | 1,369]

10 hours ago, AdamW said:

That's a perfectly legit issue but it's not actually what the thread was about, right? This didn't start off as a "people are buying repros unknowingly" thread, it started as a thread about people knowingly buying them. Those seem like completely different issues. One is a clear cut potential problem, the other seems a lot more subjective and gatekeeper-y.

Let’s make an analogy: 

- can you reseal your game? Yes, you can do whatever you want.

- can a reseal be used to scam people? Yes, they can.

- people wanting to only buy reseals because factory seals are too expensive, can/should they? Not a simple answer...

My aim is to highlight the good and the bad. And this thread in particular, shouldn’t be simplified to “yay” or “nay” options. 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,055]

6 hours ago, GPX said:

There are 2 separate but concurrent issues:

1. Are repros ok or not? Yes they are.

2. Is 1:1 near identical repros ok or not? I don’t believe so.

Getting back to the point of the thread regarding the Reddit question, we don’t know what the guy’s intentions are and what kind of repros he’s after. The point is, if it’s a near 1:1 identical, it’s a high probability that it will end up being scam material to future unsuspecting buyers, whether it’s with the first buyer or the next few buyers down the chain.

The whole point of this thread was to point out that nee collectors in the hobby are more and more accepting of 1:1 repros. For various reasons but primarily because they have been priced out of the real stuff. I also understand why they would want something to look 1:1 instead of a flashcart. 

The market has dictated this phenomenon and no matter how much its discouraged its going to continue and grow. Hence the “new breed” title of this thread because the old guard (us) is the dying breed. 1:1 repros being apart of many collections will be the new norm regardless of what anyone thinks should happen.

[GPX | 1,369]

Just now, LeatherRebel5150 said:

The whole point of this thread was to point out that nee collectors in the hobby are more and more accepting of 1:1 repros. For various reasons but primarily because they have been priced out of the real stuff. I also understand why they would want something to look 1:1 instead of a flashcart. 

The market has dictated this phenomenon and no matter how much its discouraged its going to continue and grow. Hence the “new breed” title of this thread because the old guard (us) is the dying breed. 1:1 repros being apart of many collections will be the new norm regardless of what anyone thinks should happen.

I strongly doubt this to be a large number of “new breed of collectors”. The new breed I’m seeing most often are the ones willing to pay up a stack of cash for genuine rare collectibles.

exhibit A: WATA fans

exhibit B: HA fans

You only need to look at eBay, and see that the prices are increasing because more collectors are willing to pay for genuine items! Perhaps you can say since prices are out of people’s range, they may opt to have repros instead. Rather than repros are growing in popularity despite the price increases.

Though the point still stands, 1:1 repros really should not be supported even if people are buying into the repros. This is effectively counterfeit, and not good for the collecting scene as a whole. Kind of like my previous analogy with reseals, just because some like to buy reseals doesn’t mean it’s a good thing for the sealed collecting community.

[Tanooki | 4,929]

And I'd argue for support of 1:1 repros exactly because of the high roller sabotage going on.  We don't deserve some golden parachute of defenders protecting us all from the evil bad fake games.  If you want to play in this pond anymore, then its on you the buyer to do your due diligence and buy from sources where you can get a refund, or where you can take a pocket kit and check it yourself.  It's not asking much, but it would because of the repros being 1:1 a great deterrent to those afraid of a fake because they're too lazy to check.  Also it's a fantastic great equalizer against the prices, and have shown in some limited degree, much like a hot game digital release, to at least for a time push back against the puffed up values deflating them some.  Any kind of way to hit back isn't such a bad thing.

And that aside, the 1:1 reproduction allows the game to fit in nicely with a selection of games to enjoy without sticking out being obviously awful.  Again getting mad about the 1:1 just shows a personal stake in controlling other peoples buying and hobbies, which isn't right, nor the right of a third person to get in the way about it either.  Just because they don't like it, they can choose not to support it, but to throw doom and gloom and the rest about is just petty and childish.  Control your own sphere, and not any one else's you don't like as it's not like yours.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

4 hours ago, GPX said:

I strongly doubt this to be a large number of “new breed of collectors”. The new breed I’m seeing most often are the ones willing to pay up a stack of cash for genuine rare collectibles.

exhibit A: WATA fans

exhibit B: HA fans

Those aren't collectors, they're investors.  They don't really have any true interest in playing or collecting the games they're accumulating at these stupidly expensive auctions, they're simply in it for the money.  There's a difference between folks fighting over the NES equivalent of an Action Comics #1 (mint sticker sealed first release of SMB, still stupid to me, but I understand its historical significance) and people paying multiple thousands of dollars for sealed or CIB examples of games that sold millions of copies (Pokemon being the biggest glaring example).  The people you're describing are basically circle-jerking to create their own market, then sucking in any opportunistic-minded folks along the way (scalpers ahoy!).

Folks can definitely collect things that are expensive, but actual collectors don't just wake up one day and have to have a bunch of something because they're suddenly expensive.  Especially not when they're going on about how much they're "going to be" worth or flipping them more or less immediately.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:01 AM, RegularGuyGamer said:

I don't want to be mean to these kinds of people or push anyway away from the forum but people who collect straight bootleg games and just fuckin posers.

These people just want the look because if they wanted the experience, they'd just emulate. And if they wanted to actually be that guy, they'd drop the coin like the rest of us. 

Am I a poser then? All those drawers just contain bootlegs of Japanese games, and we haven't even looked at my Game Boy bootlegs...

[fcgamer | 4,719]

Then again, I also have these.

I guess some posers do drop coin also to collect legit items, such as a complete Famicom full set. 

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

5 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Am I a poser then?

Fuckin poser! Hahaha.  You were the first person in thought of.  Lol.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

This conversation is one of those weird ones for me; on one side I have a TON of bootleg cartridges, on the other hand I HATE fakes. If that makes any sense at all.

The fakes that I collect are generally from the 80s to late 90s; anything after that and my interest just disappears. A lot of people say "bootlegs are bootlegs" but is it really so? To put it in a non-gaming context, I found two bootleg TMNT figures last year, obviously from back when the show and toys first premiered. To me, this is so cool and really collectable, for the laughs, oddness, silly mistakes, etc. I see it as an extension of the official stuff K had growing up, sort of like a parallel universe, and in many ways, it was.

But for modern bootleg stuff, it just doesn't have the same appeal. It isn't old, it isn't rare, it's easily obtainable, oftentimes it's made to be purposely "bad", etc. No thanks.

Regarding the money aspects, if I ever sell off part of my collection, it will be the licensed stuff, as I much prefer the bootleg stuff I've got, and it's not due to any monetary value either.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

Regarding this new breed of collector, honestly I don't get it. It feels like a bunch of teenage nerds playing pretend and trying to show off Photoshopped pictures if them with their super hot "girlfriends". 

The items in question are fake, fresh off the press. So there's no collectability from an age standpoint, despite being bootlegs. Heck, they don't even have alternative artwork or something to make them desirable as bootlegs.

They aren't real either. You know it, I know it, and every collector with a good eye and screwdriver knows it too. So what's really the point? Trying to be fashionable? Look kewl?

It just...it seems pointless to me. It's a huge money sink and I see very little to be gained from it, aside from possibly trying to gain approval from peers.

I do think some modern fakes have a bit more going for them though, such as the black box series Johnny did, or BunnyBoy's series, the Timewalk games stuff, etc.

These are modernish repros too, but they were basically made by hobbyists for hobbyists, are discontinued now, had "series" or "sets" to collect, etc. A bit different than Joe Blow cranking out boxes, manuals, repro labels, etc at will on eBay, upon request. Not much collectable there imo.

 

 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,055]

38 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Regarding this new breed of collector, honestly I don't get it. It feels like a bunch of teenage nerds playing pretend and trying to show off Photoshopped pictures if them with their super hot "girlfriends". 

The items in question are fake, fresh off the press. So there's no collectability from an age standpoint, despite being bootlegs. Heck, they don't even have alternative artwork or something to make them desirable as bootlegs.

They aren't real either. You know it, I know it, and every collector with a good eye and screwdriver knows it too. So what's really the point? Trying to be fashionable? Look kewl?

It just...it seems pointless to me. It's a huge money sink and I see very little to be gained from it, aside from possibly trying to gain approval from peers.

I do think some modern fakes have a bit more going for them though, such as the black box series Johnny did, or BunnyBoy's series, the Timewalk games stuff, etc.

These are modernish repros too, but they were basically made by hobbyists for hobbyists, are discontinued now, had "series" or "sets" to collect, etc. A bit different than Joe Blow cranking out boxes, manuals, repro labels, etc at will on eBay, upon request. Not much collectable there imo.

 

 

It's not one of those things you have to "get." I don't get Rap or Country music either but a lot of people seem to be into it and I can't get rid of it or prevent people from partaking. Thats the whole point, is that there is a growing sector that does find these as an acceptable substitute for the real thing. I can at least see where there coming from in other things I do. I always go back to the car analogy because it really does run parallel. Yea I could spend aa bunch of time and effort trying to find a pristine original interior door panel for my Firebird....OR I could just order one out of the Classic Industries catalog, have it show up looking identical and move on to other parts of the project. I guess that makes me (and 95% of people with project cars that dont every single piece of the original car that rolled off the line) a poser.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

This conversation is one of those weird ones for me; on one side I have a TON of bootleg cartridges, on the other hand I HATE fakes. If that makes any sense at all.

The fakes that I collect are generally from the 80s to late 90s; anything after that and my interest just disappears. A lot of people say "bootlegs are bootlegs" but is it really so?

From my observations, it seems like the bootlegs you collect were made by companies who wanted to cash in on the Famicom/NES craze of the era and offered items that obviously weren't the real thing at prices much more affordable to folks who just wanted to play the games.  Yes, they were "pirate" carts, but there was a sort of Robin Hood-esque "honor" about what they were doing.

Modern bootlegs, by and far, are being done in a manner that what's being produced is actively pretending to be the real thing versus just being a gateway into being able to play the games folks have a hard time affording.  Modern multicarts are much more in the vein of bootlegs of the past than current bootlegs.

At the same time, having basically been pushed out of the collector's market (unless I literally or figuratively hit the lottery) by the uncaring, overzealous "investor" crowd, I can understand some folks wanting something close to 1:1 to have on their shelf, even if it's one of the more common titles produced.  Many, many folks have just been priced out of the market, not for love of the hobby skyrocketing or genuine interest in it causing things to get scarce, but by single-minded, greedy folks doing whatever they can to nurture or create demand (especially on titles they've made sure to stockpile beforehand) and manipulate prices higher and higher, even (especially?) on titles that are some of the most commonly produced and available.

As a result, modern bootlegs seem to be a mix of tricking people into thinking they've gotten their hands on something they haven't (all the 1:1 "perfect" bootlegs of expensive titles, including the NWC carts as of a few months ago) and people who have been shut out of the legit market but wanting that sense of nostalgia so bad that they're willing to latch onto a fake.  What boggles me the most is the people who are more than happy to pay current game prices or above for modern 1:1 bootlegs that the manufacturer can just run off thousands of at the press of a button.  No modern bootleg should be substantially higher in price than the cheapest version of it available on AliExpress, as it's all the same paper, plastic, electronics, etc.  The fact that it's a great looking fake Samson or Stadium Events doesn't make the materials and time invested in producing the product somehow more valuable, and folks who pay more for one fake title over another are just fueling all the price gouging speculators and manipulators even more.

People can say what they want about bootlegs of the day versus modern ones being exactly the same, but in the day the creators were just trying to make a buck and, really, providing a service to gamers who didn't have much money in their pockets.  Modern bootlegs are more and more all about manipulation in one form or another (pretending to be high priced games for a high payday or gouging for cheap fakes just because they have an expensive ROM on them), which leaves a much worse taste in my mouth, and I imagine the mouths of many.

[Rocketship Evan | 55]

Ideally repros would be like comics or books where it's clearly stated it's a second printing or third printing or whatever. Then people who do care about that sort of stuff will know and people who don't can find an affordable copy.

For myself, All I want to do is pull game off my shelf, read the manual, look at the back of the box and decide if I want to play it today. I really don't care if it was made today or 50 years ago….
 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

27 minutes ago, Rocketship Evan said:

Ideally repros would be like comics or books where it's clearly stated it's a second printing or third printing or whatever. Then people who do care about that sort of stuff will know and people who don't can find an affordable copy.

For myself, All I want to do is pull game off my shelf, read the manual, look at the back of the box and decide if I want to play it today. I really don't care if it was made today or 50 years ago….

I'd personally prefer to have the stuff that I had as a kid, but I understand and agree with your assessment 100%.  I think things like this should apply universally, across product lines.  For example, I'm 1000% sick of incredible/fantastic/whatever toys and collectibles that are part of an existing line being offered only at certain events, 99% of which I'll never have the ability or opportunity to attend.  For the folks who want something truly special because they attended, make some special packaging to show it off, then run off the same toy/statue/whatever again for the regular retail market in plain-Jane, everyday packaging for everyone to have access to.

Anymore the same sort of thing applies to video games as well, with more often than not some new/homebrew games being offered only at certain events, and if you didn't attend, sorry, no cookie for you.  If you're not planning on producing any more cartridges ever, why not offer to sell the ROM to folks who couldn't or didn't attend?  I've lost track of how many newly produced homebrew games that I haven't and will never play, simply because I didn't/don't have the kind of money to throw $80-100 a pop at every new release that comes down the line.  I'd be more than happy to buy a ROM (even one customized with my name or such into the code so folks would know who to go after if I ever leaked it), but that opportunity never arises.