Dogecoin is crashing!!!!!!!!

[Tanooki | 4,930]

5 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Do you get a boner every time you attempt to use the term left leaning with negative connotation? 

Nope, but I have no issue calling out crap like that when it causes harm to others, especially when it gets into hypocrisy of harming the very ones you preach to protect.

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

29 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Nope, but I have no issue calling out crap like that when it causes harm to others, especially when it gets into hypocrisy of harming the very ones you preach to protect.

So dont tax the rich, because they are mean to poor people? Got it.
 

Jeff Bezos really needs 89 trillion dollars and he dare not pay an equal share! He will put all that money that he doesnt pay taxes on anyways in mozambique!

[Tanooki | 4,930]

14 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

So dont tax the rich, because they are mean to poor people? Got it.
 

Jeff Bezos really needs 89 trillion dollars and he dare not pay an equal share! He will put all that money that he doesnt pay taxes on anyways in mozambique!

You're making stuff up I never said that.  Typical go to though, probably should have expected as much.

[OptOut | 8,881]

Literally a better investment than Dogecoin:

[Hammerfestus | 3,820]

9 hours ago, Tanooki said:

You're making stuff up I never said that.  Typical go to though, probably should have expected as much.

 

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

You're making stuff up I never said that.  Typical go to though, probably should have expected as much.

Nope, I did a did a pretty good job.

But you are free to clarify your initial comment about “watch what the rich people do with their gains and take it out on the people that run this country”

[Mega Tank | 955]

9 hours ago, OptOut said:

Literally a better investment than Dogecoin:

You got some tiny feet

[Tanooki | 4,930]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

Nope, I did a did a pretty good job.

But you are free to clarify your initial comment about “watch what the rich people do with their gains and take it out on the people that run this country”

Taxing people who make more than others at progressively higher percentage rates than others will just cause those who get cut deeper to guard their profits naturally, and how would they do this?  Taking it out on their workers or customers with lower wages and higher prices on goods.  That's it.  I never once said someone shouldn't pay an equal share, definitely not.  Hell I'd support that, maybe a nice flat 20% tax on every tax paying citizen of the country would be quite nice.  I pay 20%, Bezoz pays 20%, dude working his first job at 16-18 at McDonals pays 20%.  That would be a fair thing to do, no sheltering the rich from taxes or shelters, nor allowing millions to get a free ride or near free ride off the backs of everyone else paying more or some.  That should be something people should get behind, fair taxation across the board, not lacking tax of a good sized pool, hitting the middle a bit heavy, and then nailing those making 6-7+ figures at some increasingly hellish rate just because their paycheck is larger.  If you want to preach fairness, preach it for all, not those who you dislike.  Your words, 'equal share' that would be equal.  Not 0% for that dude, 15% on that one, that lady over there at 27.5%, and that guy over there losing 40% and that other lady yet losing 55%.  That's not equal share, or fair.

[Californication | 1,477]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Taxing people who make more than others at progressively higher percentage rates than others will just cause those who get cut deeper to guard their profits naturally, and how would they do this?  Taking it out on their workers or customers with lower wages and higher prices on goods.  That's it.  I never once said someone shouldn't pay an equal share, definitely not.  Hell I'd support that, maybe a nice flat 20% tax on every tax paying citizen of the country would be quite nice.  I pay 20%, Bezoz pays 20%, dude working his first job at 16-18 at McDonals pays 20%.  That would be a fair thing to do, no sheltering the rich from taxes or shelters, nor allowing millions to get a free ride or near free ride off the backs of everyone else paying more or some.  That should be something people should get behind, fair taxation across the board, not lacking tax of a good sized pool, hitting the middle a bit heavy, and then nailing those making 6-7+ figures at some increasingly hellish rate just because their paycheck is larger.  If you want to preach fairness, preach it for all, not those who you dislike.  Your words, 'equal share' that would be equal.  Not 0% for that dude, 15% on that one, that lady over there at 27.5%, and that guy over there losing 40% and that other lady yet losing 55%.  That's not equal share, or fair.

The reason a flat tax is considered regressive is because it takes up a different percentage of a persons income . So at first glance it sounds fair to say we will tax everyone the same, but that flat rate affects higher income earners less so higher income earners benefit from a flat tax rate. Also, rule of thumb says that to generate wealth requires the use of resources, so if higher income earnerers (businesses, etc.) are using more societal resources they should be paying higher costs.

An example being amazon shipping using the roads - if Amazon is one of the highest volume shippers and their use of the roads causes damage to the roads over time, and the government and tax payers have to pay for those roads to be fixed, shouldn't they be responsible for paying an equitable portion of the expense measured through taxes?

And there is truth to what you say about businesses passing on costs, but there is a limit on how much a business can increase prices before customers walk away.

Edit: I think the problem you have with the tax system isn't the tax rate, but the deductions that allow wealthy people to get to an effective tax rate of 0%

Edited April 24, 2021 by Californication

[KokiriChild | 1,644]

I agree with @MrWunderful but also know @Tanooki's point about the rich hiding their wealth is the truth, so, that is why we should be taxing companies based on the wealth they report to their own investors, not what they report to the IRS. You want to show the world and your board that your company is doing great? Then you're paying your fair share of taxes. Also would avoid companies artificially inflating their profits Enron style. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by KokiriChild

[Tanooki | 4,930]

@Californication I see that, but it's also a problem too either way.  I think everyone, even those in the lowest levels should kick something back in total fairness... shouldn't get a bite if you can't give up a bit too.  Yet despite that, and it sounds like richy rambling, yet I do agree with the general sentiment, I don't think you should punish success either.  It seems horrible to me to say well if this guy makes like 50K he should pay 20%, and if a dude makes 500K then he should owe 50%.  That's punishing success, investment in oneself and others, whatever short of some fat inheritance obviously, was done to get to that point.  And while it is true people could raise prices to where people walk away, if you're one of if not the only suppliers, or the grouping of select providers are it on shoveling out the goods, it's not hard to legally collude to raise rates because if everyone does, the consumer either entirely does without which in cases can just not be done.  Video games, sure... food, utilities, consumer daily use goods? Not so much.

To your edit, perhaps that would be it.  Or maybe the reverse?  As you make more, you're allowed to deduct less until you can't deduct a damn thing, no shelters.  Couple that with a fairer tax rate, that maybe better.

 

Funny enough this kind of parallels the whole battle over min wage to $15 stuff too if you think about it.  Great raise it, then costs go up or people hire less, give less hours to cover that added bite.  But what about everyone else just above that new minimum say within up to maybe $25-30/hr rate. They get utterly screwed the hardest.  I know my boss won't raise my pay by the hour the same margin from where the old min wage was... (let's say that's $5 an hour more) I'd get laughed out of the office.

[Link | 2,708]

All the bitching and moaning Americans do about taxes is straight up ridiculous. Yes there is waste, and far too much spending in the military, but otherwise many things have been gutted or are a near-inconsequential portion of the budget. The mega wealthy have fooled everyone into thinking all taxes apply to everybody so they can push for reductions for themselves.

Margins are the key mechanism to make things fair and workable yet they never come into the discussion. When we were building our country instead of letting it deteriorate it was funded by collecting 60% of income gained by the mega rich each year. Economic and wage growth was high, public colleges were nearly free and primary education was effective. We paid for scientific and technological research in universities and government agencies, and built previously unimaginable interstate highways, airports and container ports. To say nothing of the space program which we have now outsourced to an egomaniacal crackpot.

For decades we’ve had cuts, cuts, cuts and it’s never enough. Loophole exploitation abounds. It’s abusive to the economy and the people. Raise the fucking taxes. If you don’t make $250,000/yr it won’t hit you so don’t hold things back with complaints. 

[Gloves | 11,761]

31 minutes ago, Link said:

All the bitching and moaning Americans do about taxes is straight up ridiculous. Yes there is waste, and far too much spending in the military, but otherwise many things have been gutted or are a near-inconsequential portion of the budget. The mega wealthy have fooled everyone into thinking all taxes apply to everybody so they can push for reductions for themselves.

Margins are the key mechanism to make things fair and workable yet they never come into the discussion. When we were building our country instead of letting it deteriorate it was funded by collecting 60% of income gained by the mega rich each year. Economic and wage growth was high, public colleges were nearly free and primary education was effective. We paid for scientific and technological research in universities and government agencies, and built previously unimaginable interstate highways, airports and container ports. To say nothing of the space program which we have now outsourced to an egomaniacal crackpot.

For decades we’ve had cuts, cuts, cuts and it’s never enough. Loophole exploitation abounds. It’s abusive to the economy and the people. Raise the fucking taxes. If you don’t make $250,000/yr it won’t hit you so don’t hold things back with complaints. 

The amount of people who refuse raises because "I'll get taxed more and end up making less!" is astounding, and depressing considering you should know how this shit works. It's really really basic stuff. 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

The amount of people who refuse raises because "I'll get taxed more and end up making less!" is astounding, and depressing considering you should know how this shit works. It's really really basic stuff. 

There are cases where it matters, especially for very low income households dependent on Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid.

A small raise can cause you to lose those benefits, which puts a fear in people truly dependent on them.

[Gloves | 11,761]

2 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

There are cases where it matters, especially for very low income households dependent on Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid.

A small raise can cause you to lose those benefits, which puts a fear in people truly dependent on them.

I'm mostly referring to those who think they're beating the system by not taking the raise to go into the next tax bracket specifically, which is significantly more than anyone who has to worry about that stuff is making. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

5 hours ago, Gloves said:

The amount of people who refuse raises because "I'll get taxed more and end up making less!" is astounding, and depressing considering you should know how this shit works. It's really really basic stuff. 

I work with a guy like that.  He refused his last raise.  I tried to explain to him in simple terms that even a guy making 10 million a year will be taxed the exact same amount on his first 50k, and so on, up to the highest tax bracket, but it's no use, once someone over the age of about 20 believes something, there's no arguing it out of him; he has to find out for himself and feel smart about "figuring it out."  That's also why all debates about religion and politics are 100% fruitless: like some guy is going to just up and change his long-held world view because of what some random dude wrote in a message board post?!?  Pfffff...

Edited April 25, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

I dunno Basil, it's happened to me before where I'd get a raise and my take home was like $5 less.  I've asked to renegotiate a smaller raise at times when my take home was significantly affected (which only happened once, and was mainly due to the 60+ hour work weeks affecting the taxation rate), but never outright would I refuse it...that extra tax basically puts you at the low end of the higher bracket, which will mean more coming back than being at the high end of the lower bracket.  Just depends if you want that $5 now or next April I suppose.

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

It still amazes me that in a public high school you learn about global civilizations that existed 3,000 years ago but not simple economics with a focus on how taxes work. Like explain to kids how to fill out a 1040 and then maybe squeeze in that other crap. 

It's almost as if people not being educated to this sort of thing puts money in someone else's pocket....

Just so I can stay on topic, dogecoin is pretty dumb to me. Everyday it makes itself worth less lol

Edited April 25, 2021 by a3quit4s

[RH | 4,895]

1 hour ago, a3quit4s said:

It still amazes me that in a public high school you learn about global civilizations that existed 3,000 years ago but not simple economics with a focus on how taxes work. Like explain to kids how to fill out a 1040 and then maybe squeeze in that other crap. 

It's almost as if people not being educated to this sort of thing puts money in someone else's pocket....

Just so I can stay on topic, dogecoin is pretty dumb to me. Everyday it makes itself worth less lol

It's never about money, really. It's about power and control. The money is just a means to a end.

[Gloves | 11,761]

2 minutes ago, RH said:

It's never about money, really. It's about power and control. The money is just a means to a end.

Yeah, gimme those things. I want those!

[RH | 4,895]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

Yeah, gimme those things. I want those!

We plebs look at money and see it as a way to cover our needs and pad our lives with more safety and comfort. At some point, after acquiring loads of wealth, you realize that there are "bigger things" than money, which is why some corporations will donate huge amounts of money to campaigns on both side of the aisle, or why billionaires get heavily into politics. Alternatively, politicians get in the game and when they start getting success, they realize that the more control they have in government, the more they have control over society and, again, money is a piece of that puzzle.

Once senator once boasted that how he saw his job was that he was in charge of 1% of the US economy. It was about the idea that of the +350m people in this country, 1% of it we was responsible of the economics of it all. 1% of the biggest nation at the time. Economics is more than money. It's money, business, markets and the driving force of people's lives to live and provide in a society.

So, yeah, I stand by that it's not so much about the bills. For most it's about power and control.

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,055]

9 hours ago, a3quit4s said:

It still amazes me that in a public high school you learn about global civilizations that existed 3,000 years ago but not simple economics with a focus on how taxes work. Like explain to kids how to fill out a 1040 and then maybe squeeze in that other crap. 

It's almost as if people not being educated to this sort of thing puts money in someone else's pocket....

Just so I can stay on topic, dogecoin is pretty dumb to me. Everyday it makes itself worth less lol

Ive been arguing even since I was in high school that there should be a mandatory “personal economics class.” That should   go over everything from taxes, to loans and how interest works, even down to how to write a check out properly. Meanwhile they “taught” us a bunch of useless information Ive long since forgotten that was never used.

[Tulpa | 3,488]

4 minutes ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

Ive been arguing even since I was in high school that there should be a mandatory “personal economics class.” That should   go over everything from taxes, to loans and how interest works, even down to how to write a check out properly.

I had that in my high school.

What lameass high schools did you guys go to?

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,055]

8 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I had that in my high school.

What lameass high schools did you guys go to?

It might have been an elective class, MAYBE. But I can say it certainly wasn’t required learning in any of the high schools local to me at least back then. I don’t know about now, but if it isn’t it should be required.

Edited April 26, 2021 by LeatherRebel5150

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

14 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I had that in my high school.

What lameass high schools did you guys go to?

We didn't have one when I was in school. Hopefully they do now.