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Any former religious types here?


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24 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Seems like there should be some scripture to go along with this claim. 

Also:

"There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

 

Numbers 15:32-36 While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Exodus 21:15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

Exodus 21:12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Leviticus 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

 

https://www.openbible.info/topics/punishment_and_justice

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8 minutes ago, cartman said:

Numbers 15:32-36 While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Exodus 21:15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

Exodus 21:12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Leviticus 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

 

https://www.openbible.info/topics/punishment_and_justice

1) I'm just going to cherry pick the last one since it's complete out of content. 2) it looks like all (most) of these are on reference to the creation of the commandments 3) you definitely just copy and pasted a google search and don't know much about the scriptures your citing🤣🤣

But here's the full paragraph from leviticus (old testament) where God speaks to Moses clarifying the first commandment.

"Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.  Whoever takes an animal's life shall make it good, life for life.  If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him,  fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him.  Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death.  You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God.”  So Moses spoke to the people of Israel, and they brought out of the camp the one who had cursed and stoned him with stones. Thus the people of Israel did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Further, to take these are face value is fine but these are citations from over 5700 years ago. Idk if you know this, but around 1800, we, in the west improved greatly on these laws and have been further improving these baseline principles.

Again, see my first lost you cited. Key words. Take it too seriously. 

Edited by RegularGuyGamer
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5 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

1) I'm just going to cherry pick the last one since it's complete out of content. 2) it looks like all (most) of these are on reference to the creation of the commandments 3) you definitely just copy and pasted a google search and don't know much about the scriptures your citing🤣🤣

But here's the full paragraph from leviticus (old testament) where God speaks to Moses clarifying the first commandment.

"Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.  Whoever takes an animal's life shall make it good, life for life.  If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him,  fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him.  Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death.  You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God.”  So Moses spoke to the people of Israel, and they brought out of the camp the one who had cursed and stoned him with stones. Thus the people of Israel did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Further, to take these are face value is fine but these are citations from over 5700 years ago. Idk if you know this, but around 1800, we, in the west improved greatly on these laws and have been further improving these baseline principles.

Your original statement was that only god judges and i pointed out that it's not the case. And i never claimed that i was an expert nor do i have to be.

It's completely fine by me that the religion/the west changed it's mind because i'm more concerned about bad outcomes. I'm not into proving you wrong. It's a "live and let live" type of solution.

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2 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

...chopping off my foreskin?  

No!  They're not "chopping" off your wee-wee!  They just snip it, so it looks bigger 😄 

PS: Believe it or not, I didn't even know I was circumsized until my wife pointed it out!!  I guess I thought they were all like that!  😄 

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My grandfather was a pastor in the ‘80s and ‘90s up until the day he died. He always preached about loving one another, and was a follower of the teachings of Jesus.

As a child I was interested in space, science, and geography and he told me that God chose the Middle East as his chosen people because it was were civilization began.

He also taught me that while science explains how the universe works, Genesis explains who made it, in a way that people thousands of years ago could understand.

Science and the Bible all require a “Day without a yesterday” Both of them begin with “Let there be light”

Todays preaching about prosperity is exactly the thing that’s poisoning the well being of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said to give up your earthly possessions and follow him...he said it’s easier for a wealthy man to send a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to enter the kingdom of heaven...he said to sit down and eat with your enemies and turn the other cheek when they strike you....he said to help and love one another....he said whoever is without sin should be the one to cast the first stone to condemn someone, and he himself who is without sin never cast a single stone.

Even if you aren’t a Christ follower, every person should strive to be Christ-like.

Edited by ThePhleo
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1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Former Christian, current atheist here. 

Fortunately, my mother was not militant about it, and when I decided to do my research in my teens, and asked to stop going, she didn't put up much of a fight. I think there's a part of her that is "worried" for me now, but she mostly doesn't show that. 

As a grown adult, I just have a lot of trouble understanding how someone can believe in any type of God. I get the concept of "faith", but it's still pretty mind boggling to me. To me it feels a little like willful ignorance. 

I personally do not need a set of morals provided to me to be a good person. I guess that some people do. Fear of God? I don't know. I guess if it works... but I'm not a huge fan. I wish humankind could be kinder on their own. 

However, if someone's life is better, and they are a better person, because of their faith, does it truly matter if what they believe in is real or not? I say no, because really I'm only worried about what can affect me in that regard.

However, the problem is when someone is a worse person because of what they believe in. Religious terrorists, evangelical scam artists, rapist priests and nuns, etc. All in the name of Religion. I've seen enough to have the opinion that Religion does more harm than good. I also hate when Religion gets the credit of things in the name of science. Thank the Lord you came out of that operation? No, that the doctor who performed the procedure and the science that allowed him to do it. 

I'm of the opinion that religion should be a deeply personal experience. If you do believe in God, I don't understand why that has to be shared with others, and pushed onto others. I feel the same if you don't believe in God. I can't stand atheists who constantly challenge and question their religious friends. Unless they are hurting someone or themselves, let them do/believe what they want. However, I'll still stand by my opinion that organized religion is a huge scam. 

I am not trying to offend anyone here and I hope no one is. I just wanted to offer my perspective to the OP since they asked.

I resonate with a lot that you said here.

For me back then, it didn’t bother me how others thought. I remember one Sunday afternoon after church we were driving to lunch, I was with our youth pastor and another young woman. We drove past a Buddhist temple (yes, in Nashville) and there were children running outside playing. One of them said “That ought to be illegal, bringing kids up in that.” And even as a Christian I just couldn’t understand why. I thought it was annoying that they thought that way.

And even now I have no desire to be militant about my agnosticism. 

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6 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

My grandfather was a pastor in the ‘80s and ‘90s up until the day he died. He always preached about loving one another, and was a follower of the teachings of Jesus.

As a child I was interested in space, science, and geography and he told me that God chose the Middle East as his chosen people because it was were civilization began.

He also taught me that while science explains how the universe works, Genesis explains who made it, in a way that people thousands of years ago could understand.

Science and the Bible all require a “Day without a yesterday” Both of them begin with “Let there be light”

Todays preaching about prosperity is exactly the thing that’s poisoning the well being of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said to give up your earthly possessions and follow him...he said it’s easier for a wealthy man to send a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to enter the kingdom of heaven...he said to sit down and eat with your enemies and turn the other cheek when they strike you....he said to help and love one another....he said whoever is without sin should be the one to cast the first stone to condemn someone, and he himself who is without sin never cast a single stone.

Even if you aren’t a Christ follower, every person should strive to be Christ-like.

I like this a lot! When I was younger in church, we had a guy that would bring movies for the children’s church on Sunday nights. Besides one of them comparing women who get abortions to Nazis, we had one that taught us about how evolution was “the big lie.” And afterwards he told us “some Christians think you can believe in both evolution and Christianity but that’s a lie.” I think the oldest member of that children’s group couldn’t have been any older than 2nd grade at the time. Anyway, I’m trying to imagine how my life would be different if I wasn’t brought up to vehemently hate evolution etc. etc. I’m extremely interested in it now (and was back then, I just had to suppress it) and I could see myself majoring in it in college if I had allowed myself to.

It’s funny that you brought up the teaching about giving up your worldly possessions. I saw the below screenshot in a Twitter thread recently where they were condemning Lil Nas X. It blows my mind how some people can be religious enough to judge others but not religious enough to know an iconic teaching of their own religion:

17BA225F-F545-40B9-9C6E-3051B2089FC8.jpeg

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15 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

Here is my "I have Aspeger's so I am very much like Sherlock Holmes, which is a family-based irony, but still make a point of respecting it from a more philosophical point of view" kind of response:

1) Christianity is not tied to Judaism, but rather the Muslim faith. Prior to this point, both the Muslims and Jews agreed with those they claimed were brought by God. When the prospect of Jesus being born popped up, it was the Muslims who thought God was going to give them a new Prophet. The Jews, at worse, simply disagreed because there was nothing documented saying this was the case.

2) Despite being born Jewish, and a perceived threat to the Roman Empire, both Jesus and His mother were given Muslim names. Are considered Muslim by many. And a small portion of Quran is dedicated to quotes, etc. The church, after Christianity became an organized religion, ignored this among many other things. Which I will not get into because even the Bible says he was a Liberal Jew when it comes to this type of thing.

 

I have no interest in discussing religion with anyone here, but this is 100% nonsense on a historical basis.

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3 hours ago, Daniel_Doyce said:

I have no interest in discussing religion with anyone here, but this is 100% nonsense on a historical basis.

Nobody has asked you to. But honestly? Your dismissal was proven to be wrong long before you posted that.

Link #1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

Link #2: https://www.britannica.com/event/Siege-of-Jerusalem-70

Link #3: https://www.jewishboston.com/read/ive-heard-that-judaism-is-passed-down-through-the-mother-is-it-true-does-it-matter/

Link #4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus

Link #5: https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/archaeologists-uncover-evidence-of-first-crusades-siege-of-jerusalem/

In the end, who should I believe: You or those who chronicle these facts?

For me it is the latter. Because having a belief and/or faith is fine when it works for you, as long as it also harms nobody. But when it comes to both facts and history, it's a family trait that is tied to the non-Jewish half of my family. 😉

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Those links are all fine, but don't contradict your assertions.

" Christianity is not tied to Judaism, but rather the Muslim faith." - really?

"The church, after Christianity became an organized religion, ignored this among many other things. " - Islam wasn't even around until the 7th century, a full 5 centuries after Christianity was an organized religion and well entrenched in both the Western and Eastern Roman Empires when Heraclius and the Byzantines (and of course the Persians) first got walloped by them in the 620s.

"When the prospect of Jesus being born popped up, it was the Muslims who thought God was going to give them a new Prophet. The Jews, at worse, simply disagreed because there was nothing documented saying this was the case. "

Perhaps i misread this wrong, but it sounded like you think Islam and Judaism were waiting around in the BCs for Jesus to "pop up." It is true that Islam considers Jesus to be the penultimate prophet and is in the Quran, but that's a retrospective view in light of the birth of the religion in the 7th century AD.

Edited by Daniel_Doyce
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Personally, to each their own. You do you and I do me. 

 

However,  whos to say these persons recording these books of teaching as they happened didnt just make shit up? 

 

Also to say you would never marry an atheist, that's a hard line to draw. Like what if that person way amazing in all ways but they just didn't believe but they didn't give you shit for your beliefs, would you really give that person up due to being an atheist? 

 

What happened to love thy neighbor? 

 

This is the problem with religion, it's full of hypocrisy. Say to follow a teaching but many only do when it's convenient for them. Like I love everyone, but not you your atheist/lqbt+/from another country. Like you can't pick and choose when to follow these teachings. 

Edited by SailorScoutMandy
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1 hour ago, SailorScoutMandy said:

Also to say you would never marry an atheist, that's a hard line to draw. Like what if that person way amazing in all ways but they just didn't believe but they didn't give you shit for your beliefs, would you really give that person up due to being an atheist? 

I was going to call this out too, but decided I didn't want to poke that bear. lol But I agree fully. That's a close minded attitude that can have you missing out on amazing people. 

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4 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I was going to call this out too, but decided I didn't want to poke that bear. lol But I agree fully. That's a close minded attitude that can have you missing out on amazing people. 

Haha I have no issue poking the bear. As that statement was rude and wrong on many levels. 

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Administrator · Posted
1 hour ago, SailorScoutMandy said:

Haha I have no issue poking the bear. As that statement was rude and wrong on many levels. 

I think he just said he couldn't marry one, not that he couldn't befriend one.   Huge difference.

I have lots of friends that I wouldn't marry if I were single for various reasons.

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28 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

I think he just said he couldn't marry one, not that he couldn't befriend one.   Huge difference.

I have lots of friends that I wouldn't marry if I were single for various reasons.

However this post I'm responding to said marry, not friends. 

I feel that makes you shallow to reject someone based off religion alone. There is so much more to a person other than their religion. Like if you clicked on all levels but that one, you're willing to walk away from happiness just because the other person might have no declared religion. 

Atheist: "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods"  - Merriam-webster dictionary

Often the term atheist is used incorrectly. It doesn't mean they are a devil worshipper or inherently bad. 

It isn't bad to be called an atheist. 

It doesn't make them a bad person or unmarriageable just because they haven't devoted their entire life to an unknown deity. 

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Administrator · Posted
10 minutes ago, SailorScoutMandy said:

However this post I'm responding to said marry, not friends. 

I feel that makes you shallow to reject someone based off religion alone. There is so much more to a person other than their religion. Like if you clicked on all levels but that one, you're willing to walk away from happiness just because the other person might have no declared religion. 

Atheist: "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods"  - Merriam-webster dictionary

Often the term atheist is used incorrectly. It doesn't mean they are a devil worshipper or inherently bad. 

It isn't bad to be called an atheist. 

It doesn't make them a bad person or unmarriageable just because they haven't devoted their entire life to an unknown deity. 

Yes, but we're operating on two different assumptions.  You're assuming he's lumping them into the bad person category, and I'm assuming the non-marriageable category, like someone that chews with their mouth open.

We both may be incorrect with our assumptions, but I'm just presenting another side to it.

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6 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Yes, but we're operating on two different assumptions.  You're assuming he's lumping them into the bad person category, and I'm assuming the non-marriageable category, like someone that chews with their mouth open.

We both may be incorrect with our assumptions, but I'm just presenting another side to it.

I see where your coming from. In context it read as they're being lumped into bad person category. Like "I've never consider marrying an atheist but I'm okay with marriage outside of my own religion" (not exact words but jist). 

So I took that as an atheist is a bad person who shouldn't be even considered for marriage based of atheist alone. 

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44 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Yes, but we're operating on two different assumptions.  You're assuming he's lumping them into the bad person category, and I'm assuming the non-marriageable category, like someone that chews with their mouth open.

We both may be incorrect with our assumptions, but I'm just presenting another side to it.

😆 Sorry! This got an unexpected chuckle out of me.

Must be said though, there are all kinds of ways and reasons for people to dismiss each other and I think it's largely unfortunate when that happens. Not every person is open to change of course, or open to change on every subject (perhaps appropriately, religion has proven to be a particularly stubborn bugbear for many Humans over the millennia) but it is still sad to see when people choose to let relatively small potatoes serve as a foundation for total condemnation.

If there were a person who you regarded highly and cared about deeply enough to consider marriage with them but was off-put by open-mouth chewing, you'd be doing far better service to yourself and said person to offer to help them with such a habit than to just take it at face-value and write them off as "un-marriable". My wife (no joke) didn't like the way I brushed my teeth at first but rather than let that become a point of resentment, I subtly changed the way I brushed my teeth. 😆

People are better as a whole when they help each other find peace. Just sayin'. 😉

Also, my wife was raised Christian. Meanwhile, I'm an Empiricist Agnostic Atheist Secular Humanist. How's that for a match and a mouthful? 🙂

Edited by Webhead123
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29 minutes ago, SailorScoutMandy said:

I see where your coming from. In context it read as they're being lumped into bad person category. Like "I've never consider marrying an atheist but I'm okay with marriage outside of my own religion" (not exact words but jist). 

So I took that as an atheist is a bad person who shouldn't be even considered for marriage based of atheist alone. 

Nope, you are getting defensive and putting a million words in my mouth, none of which I said.

I've got tons of friends who are atheists, in fact my business partner is an atheist. Sometimes we even chat about religion or lack thereof, and our differing beliefs do not change our thoughts of each other one bit. 

But I personally wouldn't marry a person who was an atheist, similarly I wouldn't marry a person that hates cats. I know tons of great people that don't like cats, but I do like cats. So how's that gonna work out, I want to keep three or four of the bastards around the house, and the other person feels the same way about cats as most do about cockroaches...

Quite frankly, it's ignorant to try to call out others on their lifestyle choices. If I don't want to marry an atheist, who cares, it's not that I hate atheists rather I just don't want to marry one for personal reasons. Same with someone that doesn't like cats. 

I like sitting in my underwear and playing old video games while drinking beer. I don't think I'm a bad guy in the grand scheme of things. If someone doesn't want to marry "dudes that sit in their underwear while drinking beer and playing old video games" and by extension don't see me as marriage material, yet see me as friend material or whatever, so be it. I'm not offended, why should I be, everyone has a line between friend acquaintence material, friend material, and marriage material. 

Mandy and Cody, sorry I'm not interested in marrying either of you. I think you're pretty great people, but it just wouldn't work out I'm afraid.

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44 minutes ago, SailorScoutMandy said:

I see where your coming from. In context it read as they're being lumped into bad person category. Like "I've never consider marrying an atheist but I'm okay with marriage outside of my own religion" (not exact words but jist). 

So I took that as an atheist is a bad person who shouldn't be even considered for marriage based of atheist alone. 

What's wrong about wanting to marry someone who practices a religion?  

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14 minutes ago, Webhead123 said:

😆 Sorry! This got an unexpected chuckle out of me.

Must be said though, there are all kinds of ways and reasons for people to dismiss each other and I think it's largely unfortunate when that happens. Not every person is open to change of course, or open to change on every subject (perhaps appropriately, religion has proven to be a particularly stubborn bugbear for many Humans over the millennia) but it is still sad to see when people choose to let relatively small potatoes serve as a foundation for total condemnation.

If there were a person who you regarded highly and cared about deeply enough to consider marriage with them but was off-put by open-mouth chewing, you'd be doing far better service to yourself and said person to offer to help them with such a habit than to just take it at face-value and write them off as "un-marriable". My wife (no joke) didn't like the way I brushed my teeth at first but rather than let that become a point of resentment, I subtly changed the way I brushed my teeth. 😆

People are better as a whole when they help each other find peace. Just sayin'. 😉

Also, my wife was raised Christian. Meanwhile, I'm an Empiricist Agnostic Atheist Secular Humanist. How's that for a match and a mouthful? 🙂

Exactly! It's gets boring if you're the same person lol

 

Being different helps each other grow and learn. 

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On 4/4/2021 at 1:41 AM, fcgamer said:

 

 

On a different note, I'd personally never consider marrying an atheist, though I'd have no qualms about marrying out of faith, i.e to someone that worships Mazu or whatever, as i think the general teachings of religion are quite good.

 

Not really, that's exactly what you said. You singled out a group of persons based on religion. I mean it's a debate thread it's open for discussion on what's said in here. And based off what you said that's how I took it. 

 

Don't wanna marry you either

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