wata liability value

[cromag27 | 46]

Just now, Gulag Joe said:

Lol I can't answer that because I don't plan to sell them any time soon!

if it sells for a penny less than their value, i’d be upset. lol!

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Wata's direct relationship with an auction house is where the controversy lies. They may not be "partnered" anymore- business to business- but they do have a monetary relationship as the people behind the businesses have money and stakes invested in both. They really need to be making moves to be as transparent as possible because this is really a big problem that will no doubt become more pronounced in the future if they do nothing about it. Just take a look at the whole "IMP" controversy they had to adjust their practices around!

[cromag27 | 46]

and for the record i’m just talking here. i have no dog in the fight at this point. since i’m not a collector, i’m just trying to understand the process and logic behind it. 

[JamesRobot | 5,798]

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

2 hours ago, Woobie said:

I dont think anyone is buying a graded CIB game and breaking it open to play it.

Wrong   I've bought two CIB Wata games now as a CIB collector and opened them up to add to my CIB collection.  My reason for this is that the case 100% protects the item during shipping, and if the manual and cart are rated really high then I sort of take a leap of faith that they are pretty near mint.  I've opened about a dozen VGA games too over the years, and I've gotta say, VGA cases are way harder to open and pretty much impossible to open without destroying.  Wata cases, on the other hand, I can open in about 5-10 seconds with a flathead screw driver in such a way that the case's appearance is not damaged, and if I were to crazy glue the top back onto the bottom at the black seam, it would be hard to tell what I had done.  Also, both times with the Wata cases the inner plastic lining that holds the CIB game has had a hazy spot that really detracts from the aesthetic view of the item.

TLDR: For opening the cases, Wata games are awesome to deal with, but if you're a slabbed game collector, there are a few more knocks against Wata...

Edited February 20, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Wrong   I've bought two CIB Wata games now as a CIB collector and opened them up to add to my CIB collection.  My reason for this is that the case 100% protects the item during shipping, and if the manual and cart are rated really high then I sort of take a leap of faith that they are pretty near mint.  I've opened about a dozen VGA games too over the years, and I've gotta say, VGA cases are way harder to open and pretty much impossible to open without destroying.  Wata cases, on the other hand, I can open in about 5-10 seconds with a flathead screw driver in such a way that the case's appearance is not damaged, and if I were to crazy glue the top back onto the bottom at the black seam, it would be hard to tell what I had done.  Also, both times with the Wata cases the inner plastic lining that holds the CIB game has had a hazy spot that really detracts from the aesthetic view of the item.

TLDR: For opening the cases, Wata games are awesome to deal with, but if you're a slabbed game collector, there are a few more knocks against Wata...

I like how you casually discussed something that is incredibly alarming!

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

4 hours ago, Woobie said:

Actually? I honestly cant say I have seen this (not saying that its not true, simply that I havent seen it)

In regards to the liability I had assumed that was due to insuring the package being shipped. 

"FedEx, UPS, and Purolator offer similar coverage. Each domestic parcel is automatically covered for a value of up to $100 against loss or damage. As for packages with a value above $100, additional coverage is available for $2 to $5 per $100 of coverage."

So its automatically covered for up to $100, and then 2% - 5% beyond that. The way I read WATAs wording then is that:

0-1000: Cost is included as a part of the grading

1000-2499: Sliding scale up to a maximum of 2%

2500+: 2% of value

So the way I read it, basically once it starts to get to 2500+, since they are fully declaring value / insuring it fully, they are charged 2% (at a minimum) and are just passing that cost on to the consumer

What if Wata are the ones to damage the game within their facility? Do they just blame it on the shipping company?

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

5 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Wrong   I've bought two CIB Wata games now as a CIB collector and opened them up to add to my CIB collection.  My reason for this is that the case 100% protects the item during shipping, and if the manual and cart are rated really high then I sort of take a leap of faith that they are pretty near mint.  I've opened about a dozen VGA games too over the years, and I've gotta say, VGA cases are way harder to open and pretty much impossible to open without destroying.  Wata cases, on the other hand, I can open in about 5-10 seconds with a flathead screw driver in such a way that the case's appearance is not damaged, and if I were to crazy glue the top back onto the bottom at the black seam, it would be hard to tell what I had done.  Also, both times with the Wata cases the inner plastic lining that holds the CIB game has had a hazy spot that really detracts from the aesthetic view of the item.

TLDR: For opening the cases, Wata games are awesome to deal with, but if you're a slabbed game collector, there are a few more knocks against Wata...

Sounds like I'll be using CAS for my video game grading needs. Because in the end I prefer having the grade be seen inside the case, and not a photo of you giving a thumbs up where the game used to be. 

[OptOut | 8,883]

The "insurance premium" argument is COMPLETE bull for the MOST obvious reason when you actually think about it for more than a second.

As an INDIVIDUAL owning an item, logically you want to insure that item for as MUCH value as possible, because if it's lost you get the money.

As a BUSINESS handling an item you do NOT own, you want the declared value of that item to be as LOW as possible, so that if it has to come out of your insurance you're not gonna get ass blasted by your next premium!

Remember, the theoretical scenario where a 100 thousand dollar game falls off a table and gets run over by a forklift, WATA would be claiming on their insurance but NOT receiving the payout (although, knowing them...)

But if the OWNER declares low, then fine, NO insurance company is going to say, "Hang on, your item is worth WAY more than you declared, here's TONS more money!!!". As a BUSINESS handling other people's goods, if this argument was ANYTHING to do with insurance premiums, WATA would LOWBALL the values, NOT PUMP THEM UP.

 

 

 

It is a con. A surcharge. They want a nice big piece of YOUR fucking pie.

[GPX | 1,369]

On 2/21/2021 at 1:35 PM, OptOut said:

The "insurance premium" argument is COMPLETE bull for the MOST obvious reason when you actually think about it for more than a second.

As an INDIVIDUAL owning an item, logically you want to insure that item for as MUCH value as possible, because if it's lost you get the money.

As a BUSINESS handling an item you do NOT own, you want the declared value of that item to be as LOW as possible, so that if it has to come out of your insurance you're not gonna get ass blasted by your next premium!

Remember, the theoretical scenario where a 100 thousand dollar game falls off a table and gets run over by a forklift, WATA would be claiming on their insurance but NOT receiving the payout (although, knowing them...)

But if the OWNER declares low, then fine, NO insurance company is going to say, "Hang on, your item is worth WAY more than you declared, here's TONS more money!!!". As a BUSINESS handling other people's goods, if this argument was ANYTHING to do with insurance premiums, WATA would LOWBALL the values, NOT PUMP THEM UP.

 

 

 

It is a con. A surcharge. They want a nice big piece of YOUR fucking pie.

I think there are 2 or possibly more types of insurance costs involving WATA, or I suppose any grading services:

1. Travel insurance fees if item is lost or damaged between locations.

2. Storage insurance if item is stolen or damaged within the grading/storage location.

3. Other insurance costs?

——————

From the consumer end, it would be reasonable to assume insurance cost to be whatever our declared value. From the other end, I can see it’s a bit more complicated. Though I think you make a fair point that there may be some extra money making scheme behind the scene..

[cromag27 | 46]

31 minutes ago, GPX said:

I think there are 2 or possibly more types of insurance costs involving WATA, or I suppose any grading services:

1. Travel insurance fees if item is lost or damaged between locations.

2. Storage insurance if item is stolen or damaged within the grading/storage location.

3. Other insurance costs?

——————

From the consumer end, it would be reasonable to assume insurance cost to be whatever our declared value. From the other end, I can see it’s a bit more complicated. Though I think you make a fair point that there may be some extra money making scheme behind the scene..

1 and 2 are correct. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Oh Wata, hahaha , very good laugh

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

On 2/20/2021 at 10:44 AM, Dr. Morbis said:

Wrong   I've bought two CIB Wata games now as a CIB collector and opened them up to add to my CIB collection.  My reason for this is that the case 100% protects the item during shipping, and if the manual and cart are rated really high then I sort of take a leap of faith that they are pretty near mint.  I've opened about a dozen VGA games too over the years, and I've gotta say, VGA cases are way harder to open and pretty much impossible to open without destroying.  Wata cases, on the other hand, I can open in about 5-10 seconds with a flathead screw driver in such a way that the case's appearance is not damaged, and if I were to crazy glue the top back onto the bottom at the black seam, it would be hard to tell what I had done.  Also, both times with the Wata cases the inner plastic lining that holds the CIB game has had a hazy spot that really detracts from the aesthetic view of the item.

TLDR: For opening the cases, Wata games are awesome to deal with, but if you're a slabbed game collector, there are a few more knocks against Wata...

Wata Cases are designed to be easy to open, to show that they’ve been tampered with. That is part of the design  

 

VGA Cases can be easily opened and resealed without anyone but the most discerning Eye will be able to tell. I did it myself and even showed people the results, but I took the post down because of the outrage.  VGA case internals can be 100% tampered with. 

[OptOut | 8,883]

Games sent to WATA valued at over 2,500 USD are charged an additional 2% in liability value...

So... If someone sends a copy of Mario 64 to them right now, there is a POSSIBILITY  they will be required to pay an additional THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS to get it graded?!!! 

This has gone from the ridiculous to the apeshit at HYPER SPEED! 

[Brickman | 3,983]

2 hours ago, OptOut said:

Games sent to WATA valued at over 2,500 USD are charged an additional 2% in liability value...

So... If someone sends a copy of Mario 64 to them right now, there is a POSSIBILITY  they will be required to pay an additional THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS to get it graded?!!! 

This has gone from the ridiculous to the apeshit at HYPER SPEED! 

Haha would be cheaper to fly there, hand deliver it, get a hotel for a week, come pick it up and then fly home. Even for an international person (going off pre COVID ticket prices and probably even COVID prices) it would be cheaper. Absolutely mental.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

8 hours ago, OptOut said:

Games sent to WATA valued at over 2,500 USD are charged an additional 2% in liability value...

So... If someone sends a copy of Mario 64 to them right now, there is a POSSIBILITY  they will be required to pay an additional THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS to get it graded?!!! 

This has gone from the ridiculous to the apeshit at HYPER SPEED! 

Yeah, I just don't understand this at all. It literally makes no sense outside of a simple cash grab to put a percentage on perceived value when that's not the service offered. 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Just now, Andy_Bogomil said:

Yeah, I just don't understand this at all. It literally makes no sense outside of a simple cash grab to put a percentage on perceived value when that's not the service offered. 

Its been argued that there could possibly be 500 sealed SM64 copies out there. With that said, how many of those people sent that game via select orders way back last year that still haven't been graded yet? Please post your Wata email asking for $30,000 in this thread if you get one!

[GPX | 1,369]

The more I think about this topic, the more it just doesn’t make one bit of sense..

Here’s my thought process:

- estimated value of your game depends (particularly in the current era) almost entirely on condition.

- so to estimate the value you go on recent sales and trends and figure out the condition your game is in (eg. WATA 9.0, 9.8A++ etc)

- but if you can figure out your game’s condition, then...

- you’ve effectively done WATA’s job already! Or..

- you have no clue on what your game’s condition, then you’re basically being asked to throw a random guess between $1,000 to $1M! And then coughing up 2% of that random guess!..?

——————

Sounds pretty stressful just to work out your game’s insurance worth! 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

9 minutes ago, GPX said:

The more I think about this topic, the more it just doesn’t make one bit of sense..

Here’s my thought process:

- estimated value of your game depends (particularly in the current era) almost entirely on condition.

- so to estimate the value you go on recent sales and trends and figure out the condition your game is in (eg. WATA 9.0, 9.8A++ etc)

- but if you can figure out your game’s condition, then...

- you’ve effectively done WATA’s job already! Or..

- you have no clue on what your game’s condition, then you’re basically being asked to throw a random guess between $1,000 to $1M! And then coughing up 2% of that random guess!..?

——————

Sounds pretty stressful just to work out your game’s insurance worth! 

They def whore'd out a few of my games after grading and then said "we found that somebody is willing to pay x for this game, so pay us a percentage of that" and all I could think about was the fact that I didn't give them permission to do that.

[RH | 4,903]

Well, we can know the count to how many of these sealed games have been graded for Wata but how many of these have been graded by VGA.  Or any game for that matter.  In my opinion, grading games has been going on a loooooong time and we're all collectors.  We all have our own, personal iconic games and even people like me who are not real graded games collectors have a select few we wouldn't mind having a nice copy of graded and setting at the top of the shelf.  I'm a bit cheap and lazy on getting stuff to VGA/Wata, but I'm sure there are many others of you guys who have hunted down sealed copies of all these games and did multiple, conditional upgrades over the past 20 years, and that means that for whatever number sealed SM64s that Wata has graded, probably just as many have been submitted to VGA and I'd venture a guess that the average condition of the VGA graded ones are in better shape than that 1.5m Mario 64.

A fool and his money...

7 minutes ago, GPX said:

The more I think about this topic, the more it just doesn’t make one bit of sense..

Here’s my thought process:

- estimated value of your game depends (particularly in the current era) almost entirely on condition.

- so to estimate the value you go on recent sales and trends and figure out the condition your game is in (eg. WATA 9.0, 9.8A++ etc)

- but if you can figure out your game’s condition, then...

- you’ve effectively done WATA’s job already! Or..

- you have no clue on what your game’s condition, then you’re basically being asked to throw a random guess between $1,000 to $1M! And then coughing up 2% of that random guess!..?

——————

Sounds pretty stressful just to work out your game’s insurance worth! 

You give a value, but they let it set on their shelf for a period likely longer than what you paid for.  Then, they evaluate the "value" of the item and if your estimate was wrong, they call you up and demand more money in the nicest tone possible. So no worries.  Claim all your games as $100.  They will appraise it for you, which is just so generous.

 

[GPX | 1,369]

4 minutes ago, RH said:

Well, we can know the count to how many of these sealed games have been graded for Wata but how many of these have been graded by VGA.  Or any game for that matter.  In my opinion, grading games has been going on a loooooong time and we're all collectors.  We all have our own, personal iconic games and even people like me who are not real graded games collectors have a select few we wouldn't mind having a nice copy of graded and setting at the top of the shelf.  I'm a bit cheap and lazy on getting stuff to VGA/Wata, but I'm sure there are many others of you guys who have hunted down sealed copies of all these games and did multiple, conditional upgrades over the past 20 years, and that means that for whatever number sealed SM64s that Wata has graded, probably just as many have been submitted to VGA and I'd venture a guess that the average condition of the VGA graded ones are in better shape than that 1.5m Mario 64.

A fool and his money...

You give a value, but they let it set on their shelf for a period likely longer than what you paid for.  Then, they evaluate the "value" of the item and if your estimate was wrong, they call you up and demand more money in the nicest tone possible. So no worries.  Claim all your games as $100.  They will appraise it for you, which is just so generous.

 

Which brings to another point:

Why self-evaluate it in the first place? When it’ll likely sit there for some months, and by the time it gets graded prices will change anyway?! This is just becoming a bit of a joke, isn’t it?

[OptOut | 8,883]

It also reduces EVERY single reason someone might want to get a game graded down to a simple factor, I.E. resale value.

Now, obviously I KNOW that the main reason most people grade things is to resell. But, say I had a copy of Mario 64 for 20 years or something, I loved it and just wanted to get it graded for my own personal reasons... Should I really accept that thirty thousand dollars is a reasonable fee?

Or even if it was JUST like one grand or whatever, like even then it's simple robbery, nothing more.

[kell | 102]

It’s definitely a dilemma if you want to get games graded that have high recent sales. Wata did use that SM 64 auction (while open) to value the one I have with them. In their defense, I believe they did use a conservative number for mine.

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

42 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

They def whore'd out a few of my games after grading and then said "we found that somebody is willing to pay x for this game, so pay us a percentage of that" and all I could think about was the fact that I didn't give them permission to do that.

all i can think about after reading this is.

if you say you dont want to sell there just gonna swap them.

because the initial act is shady as hell.

Edited July 14, 2021 by docile tapeworm

[RH | 4,903]

23 minutes ago, OptOut said:

It also reduces EVERY single reason someone might want to get a game graded down to a simple factor, I.E. resale value.

Now, obviously I KNOW that the main reason most people grade things is to resell. But, say I had a copy of Mario 64 for 20 years or something, I loved it and just wanted to get it graded for my own personal reasons... Should I really accept that thirty thousand dollars is a reasonable fee?

Or even if it was JUST like one grand or whatever, like even then it's simple robbery, nothing more.

I'm reasonably speculating that in such a case, Wata/Heritage can and do work together.  Basically, you send the game to Wata, they tell you that you owe them $50,000, you then flip out but they then say "well, were you planning on selling it?".  If you say yes, they then give the option to grade and ship it to Wata and once it's sold, Heritage pays it back to them. 

Now, in practice I'm sure that does not happen.  Instead, you should contact Heritage first, and then they take care of that.  Now, if you are just the long-time gamer who has a long held, and loved, copy of a game that's gone gang-busters and you just want to get it entombed, then you are fresh out of luck if you want to use Wata.  But, there is always the VGA option, so even then you aren't completely left without an option.