BreaKBeatZ | 136 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 It seems wrong that a terrible box can get a high rating because the cart and manual grades are averaged in. Do other people agree with me? For example, I noticed that this awful looking SMB first print is a 6.0. https://www.certifiedlink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FDEFAULT.ASP%3FclickType%3D%26pga%3D1%26TypeRads%3Dall%26ord1%3D3%26ord1d%3DDESC%26ord2%3D6%26ord2d%3DASC%26ord3%3D0%26ord3d%3DASC%26testName%3Dxyz%26top_search_hiddentext%3D%26pg%3D1%26pgb%3D1%26control_loc%3Dlow%26nextsectlow%3D%26nextsectlowval%3D%26nextsect%3D%26nextsectval%3D%26nextsecthold%3D%26nextsectholdval%3D%26nexttype%3D%26lefthandpick%3D%26focused%3D1%26code%3D%26beenheredonethat%3D1%26overridesort2default%3D%23Item_1361948&id=1361948&itemType=6&na=90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I do agree. More to the point I think the whole scale is too soft. My understanding is they use the coin model where a midway grade is like, midway destroyed. To me all those shit grades and pointless, its the grades closer to the top people care about. Shit is shit. I don't care if its dog shit or cat shit. I'd give that thing a 3 personally. But, that's just my personal opinion, and as long as they apply their criteria consistently that's what matters. In fairness, cib games are a difficult thing to build a grading scale around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,749 Administrator · Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I noticed that too, pretty bizarre to me. I'm not sure if they bother to check the serial numbers or something to verify that the cart and manual actually originally came with THAT box (not likely) so it's easy to send a garbage box with mint cart/manual (easy to obtain on their own) and get a decent grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetTheGreg | 105 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 But check out this complete garbage. 3 mismatched parts pieces together for a 7.5. it just doesn't make any sense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGD | 72 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I dont think it would be possible to match a cart with a box, just make sure its the same print is the best your gonna get, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FooFghtrs33 | 16 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Those were my thoughts too. I have a collection of the black box games and have the carts with the 85 boards and chipsets inside, but you could easily take an 1987 game and just put it in the box to boost that grade. Kind of frustrates me. with that complete mismatch IMP, why wouldn't they just reject grading it ? or change the banner color to something to make it real obvious that game is a complete mess. just my thoughts. Edited October 30, 2019 by FooFghtrs33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultGen | 5,385 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Strong agree that IMPs shouldn't be able to boost your overall grade. I don't think IMPs even make sense to encapsulate forever, but Wata has to get that $$ I understand. And jeez, not only is that Mario box worn to hell, it's missing both flaps. IMO the box is 50% of the grade, but way more than 50% of the price. People shouldn't be buying crap like that Mario based on the overall grade. It's really the buyer's fault if they buy garbage at collectible prices based on the overall number. Edited October 30, 2019 by DefaultGen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Two separate points. I brought up this IMP problem months ago on NA and spoke to Deniz about it. They did start marking IMP on the front of the game. So that Mario linked above is an "early" graded Wata game. Take a look at the recently completed Excitebike on HA that has IMP on the front. I do agree it should still be much more clear though, different color or something. It should be a mark of death and not desirable. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/excitebike-matte-sticker-imp-cart-wata-45-cib-nes-nintendo-1985/a/121943-17288.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 As for the CIB methodology, it's unfair to use the extreme examples of sticker seal black boxes or hangtab boxes where the box dominates the value. Of course that is what is in at the moment, but the scale of 50% box / 30% cart / 20% manual is a universal scale applying to all graded CIBs. It should just reiterate that a 6.0 game is not that great of a great. While the CIB scale is soft on the poor items it is extremely tight at the high end. A 9.4 CIB is a truly beautiful specimen. A 9.6 CIB may as well be a 10.0 Sealed game. At least speaking from the cardboard perspective, as I imagine disc based CIBs (if people grade those) would be a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,749 Administrator · Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, jonebone said: Two separate points. I brought up this IMP problem months ago on NA and spoke to Deniz about it. They did start marking IMP on the front of the game. So that Mario linked above is an "early" graded Wata game. Take a look at the recently completed Excitebike on HA that has IMP on the front. I do agree it should still be much more clear though, different color or something. It should be a mark of death and not desirable. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/excitebike-matte-sticker-imp-cart-wata-45-cib-nes-nintendo-1985/a/121943-17288.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 As for the CIB methodology, it's unfair to use the extreme examples of sticker seal black boxes or hangtab boxes where the box dominates the value. Of course that is what is in at the moment, but the scale of 50% box / 30% cart / 20% manual is a universal scale applying to all graded CIBs. It should just reiterate that a 6.0 game is not that great of a great. While the CIB scale is soft on the poor items it is extremely tight at the high end. A 9.4 CIB is a truly beautiful specimen. A 9.6 CIB may as well be a 10.0 Sealed game. At least speaking from the cardboard perspective, as I imagine disc based CIBs (if people grade those) would be a lot easier. I've not followed along toooo closely, so I'll ask - have games been graded Wata 10 yet? If so, what makes that possible? Like, hew spectacularly perfect does a game have to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime2099 | 176 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but what does IMP stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGD | 72 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, Prime2099 said: Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but what does IMP stand for? Improperly married part. i.e. oval seal cart with circle seal box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, Gloves said: I've not followed along toooo closely, so I'll ask - have games been graded Wata 10 yet? If so, what makes that possible? Like, hew spectacularly perfect does a game have to be? There's been at least a couple of Wata 10's as sealed. CIB I assume is a max of 9.6 or 9.8 after wear from opening, assuming the insides were perfect (which they aren't guaranteed to be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Monkey | 2,005 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, VGD said: Improperly married part. i.e. oval seal cart with circle seal box. Many games were mismatched like this from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGD | 72 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Code Monkey said: Many games were mismatched like this from the factory. Wouldnt surprise me, im just answering his question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, jonebone said: There's been at least a couple of Wata 10's as sealed. CIB I assume is a max of 9.6 or 9.8 after wear from opening, assuming the insides were perfect (which they aren't guaranteed to be). what are the 10s so far jone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Code Monkey said: Many games were mismatched like this from the factory. Not exactly but I get what you're saying. Take a game like Contra. Only came in a circle seal box, yet there are oval and circle seal carts. So clearly a oval seal cart would have came in a circle seal box. Take a game like Mario. Came in many different boxes, so in this case the oval seal cart would have only come in the oval seal box. Putting a oval seal cart in a circle seal box would result in IMP, incorrectly married part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bronty said: what are the 10s so far jone? I remember hearing of a few specific games, but only one I recall with photographic evidence is 10.0 / A++ Bomberman 64. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetTheGreg | 105 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, jonebone said: Not exactly but I get what you're saying. Take a game like Contra. Only came in a circle seal box, yet there are oval and circle seal carts. So clearly a oval seal cart would have came in a circle seal box. Take a game like Mario. Came in many different boxes, so in this case the oval seal cart would have only come in the oval seal box. Putting a oval seal cart in a circle seal box would result in IMP, incorrectly married part. My Contra fits that bill. In that instance then, WATA would have to recognize it is an actual match, hey? I was worried I would have to track down a circle seal cart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultGen | 5,385 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Maertens29 said: My Contra fits that bill. In that instance then, WATA would have to recognize it is an actual match, hey? I was worried I would have to track down a circle seal cart... Theoretically the whole idea behind paying Wata to certify this stuff is that they're experts so they'd know that your Contra is correct. If they marked a correct game as IMP that would be a blow to their credibility. Although if you're grading it might as well get a nice circle cart since it's cooler and it costs 3x as much as a cart just to get it graded anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime2099 | 176 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 @VGD Thanks for answering! Didn't know there was a proper term for it or that it was even noticeable outside the main known variants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,366 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Yes, it seems wrong in so many ways: - the box is the hardest part to find in eye-catching condition and also the ONLY part that you see after grading. If it looks below average, it doesn’t deserve to get more than a 5.0 in my opinion. - it’s only actually “rare” in sealed form, not CIB. People paying ridiculous prices for this stuff are either shill bidding, dumb, or crazy. Can’t comprehend the ridiculousness of this current situation. Edited October 31, 2019 by GPX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acromite53 | 337 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, GPX said: Yes, it seems wrong in so many ways: - the box is the hardest part to find in eye-catching condition and also the ONLY part that you see after grading. If it looks below average, it doesn’t deserve to get more than a 5.0 in my opinion. - it’s only actually “rare” in sealed form, not CIB. People paying ridiculous prices for this stuff are either shill bidding, dumb, or crazy. Can’t comprehend the ridiculousness of this current situation. Yeah who gives af what the condition of the cart/instructions are anyway? In a WATA CIB, those contents will never ever be seen again. The box is the only thing that matters. How pretty it looks on investor's shelves. But I guess that gets to the whole problem of: what's the point of grading a CIB anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,717 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 They should open up the carts and inspect the PCBs to see if they match the proper timeframe of the box and manual or not. In bootleg Famiclone collecting, this is basically a must, and mismatched parts are hugely undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peg | 370 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I never understood CIB grading, even less so than sealed grading. They should only grade the pieces individually. Like just grade the box by itself (or cart or manual) and call it a day. Combining the grades makes no sense at all. If you want to grade all parts, they should just grade the pieces separately and if they want, combine all 3 of them for display in some sort of "super case". I'm reminded of that gold NWC that was opened up and all 3 pieces displayed. Now I thought that specific case was ridiculous, but a similar concept could be used to display all the pieces of a CIB in a larger case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peg | 370 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Right now, it's just like in order to grade and display the box, you have to have the other parts thrown in though they are irrelevant to what is being displayed. I guess you can inflate the grade by having higher quality carts and manuals, but that is just very deceptive and makes the actual graded shown almost worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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