Sequel Showdown #3: Metroid

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

14 minutes ago, MagusSmurf said:

I never had much problem with the controls of the first two Primes and while I recall the shooting controls of Prime 3 being good, probably an improvement even, they also forced in some nunchuck motion usage (IIRC to trigger the grappling beam) for no good reason. And at this point if I really wanted motion controls for the first two I could pick up Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii. So 3's controls don't really offer any advantage for me and I found the game's actual content less memorable.

There was no "problem" with the original Prime controls, since they were decently mechanized... but the Prime 3 controls were really well-conceived and felt like a new high bar for FPS control schemes on a console.

[a_profile_name | 230]

super > 2 > fusion > original

Never played the others.

I'm curious, does Metroid prime feel like a sequel to the 2d games in terms of gameplay? Or is it just the story / franchise?

[Webhead123 | 675]

7 minutes ago, sg17 said:

I'm curious, does Metroid prime feel like a sequel to the 2d games in terms of gameplay? Or is it just the story / franchise?

It does. Yes, there is something fundamentally different about controlling in a 3D environment vs. 2D. But Prime (at least Prime 1, which is the one I spent the most time with) feels like a fully-realized Metroid game and not just some "FPS with Metroid characters".

[a_profile_name | 230]

5 minutes ago, Webhead123 said:

It does. Yes, there is something fundamentally different about controlling in a 3D environment vs. 2D. But Prime (at least Prime 1, which is the one I spent the most time with) feels like a fully-realized Metroid game and not just some "FPS with Metroid characters".

Sounds good. They are definitely my "try out someday" list.

[Webhead123 | 675]

11 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I acknowledge that SM trumps OG in every way... except one: atmosphere;  OG Metroid was the first game I ever played were I actually felt the way the developers intended you to feel, namely, lost and alone on a mysterious alien planet.  I got lost in that game, literally and figurately, for the better part of 1988 and have super fond memories of getting through the whole game as a child with no guide.

This is the credit that I have to give to the original (and, to a similar extent, Metroid 2). While I never could get all that far in the game (I didn't own it until the mid-90's, only the occasional rental), even then I was blown away by how haunted and claustrophobic it made the player feel. You were alone and fragile in a labyrinthine, hostile alien world. Between Metroid and Castlevania, the NES proved that it could deliver some seriously creepy experiences. And while the game is more frustratingly limited in light of modern sensibilities, one can still appreciate the superb atmosphere.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Webhead123

[Sumez | 2,934]

The original Metroid does do that atmosphere well... But I'm honestly surprised you don't think Super Metroid does it even better. I think it excels at it more than almost anything I've played.

[Sumez | 2,934]

59 minutes ago, Webhead123 said:

But Prime (at least Prime 1, which is the one I spent the most time with) feels like a fully-realized Metroid game and not just some "FPS with Metroid characters".

I can second this. Metroid Prime is a very unique game, and even though it's an FPS at its core, it never really felt much like one to me. It's not just "Metroid in 3D" either, but it definitely gives a pretty good stab at what a 3D Metroid game can be, relying a lot on exploration and the series' familiar tropes.
You don't need to play 2 or 3, but definitely play the first.

[Webhead123 | 675]

1 minute ago, Sumez said:

The original Metroid does do that atmosphere well... But I'm honestly surprised you don't think Super Metroid does it even better. I think it excels at it more than almost anything I've played.

To be fair, I think SM does the "alien" atmosphere better than the original (simply the result of more detailed graphics and more interesting levels, enemies and bosses) and I would certainly call the game no slouch in building tension. In terms of the sheer sense of isolation though, I think the original does that better. Part of it is the lack of a map, making the player feel lost. Part of it is the much emptier feel of Zebes due to the more limited graphics and more minimalistic music.

SM is one of the best games ever made and one of my personal favorites of all-time. But I think it is much friendlier to the player which is a good thing for playability but it does lighten the mood just a touch. The original Metroid (at least, at the time) from the title screen to the end credits feels very ominous and bleak.

[TDIRunner | 2,730]

I feel the Super Metroid has the better isolated atmosphere compared to the original.  The extra music tracks, especially at the beginning of the game really help this.  The music and atmosphere of the original are epic, but Super Metroid does it better.  

[Br81zad | 629]

AM2R. lol

From official games:

Super Metroid is at the top of the stack followed by Fusion, Zero Mission, then Prime.

[OptOut | 8,883]

Is it worth mentioning here that Metroid Prime should more properly be considered a first person ADVENTURE game, rather than a first person shooter?

The combat, whilst still a core part of the experience, is secondary to the exploration and puzzle solving elements, which is where all the scanning and enemy lock-on stuff fits in.

People approaching Metroid Prime expecting an FPS have always come away dissatisfied, and many more have been put off trying the game in the first place because they "don't like FPS", but honestly the game has more in common with Zelda than Halo, despite the surface appearance.

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

I never played Super Metroid as a kid, but I adore Metroid Prime. I should definitely go back and play SM some day, but I didn't list it in the backlog thread so that would be illegal and unethical. Perhaps next year.

Edited January 7, 2021 by DoctorEncore

[Webhead123 | 675]

5 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

I never played Super Metroid as a kid, but I adore Metroid Prime. I should definitely go back and play SM some day, but I didn't lost it in the backlog thread so that would be illegal and unethical. Perhaps next year.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

The original Metroid does do that atmosphere well... But I'm honestly surprised you don't think Super Metroid does it even better. I think it excels at it more than almost anything I've played.

A couple of reasons SM isn't as atmospheric as OG Metroid: first, the presence of a map means you're never truly "lost" or disoriented about where you are.

Second, the black background of OG Metroid seems minimalist and maybe even like lazy programming by todays standards, but it goes miles toward making you feel like you're somewhere foreign and alone (ASIDE: this is actually one of the major details I like about the NES over the SNES: not only do black backgrounds encourage that feeling of aloneness and isolation that stimulate my imagination, but it also makes for a cleaner gameplay experience as there's no wondering where a platform truly begins or ends or trying to decipher what's a foreground vs background object).

Third, Super Metroid has standard video game tropes that take me out of the overall atmostphere like "this is plant-world so everything is green and planty with weird upbeat music" or "this is fire/lava land so the music is really menacing" or "welcome to swamp world where the music is mysterious and foreboding."  It's just so segmented into video game "levels" that the world starts to lose that overall sense of cohesion for me.

And fourth, you get so powerful so quickly in SM, and pick up health so easily that you are never really scared of dying.  In fact, outside of boss fights, I wasn't even scared of dying during my first ever playthrough back in the 90's.  Add to that the savepoints and energy and missile refills that are literally everywhere, and SM, in a nutshell, is just far too easy.  And no fear for this type of game = no atmosphere.  In the original Metroid, on the other hand, death is ever present, and getting stuck in the wrong spot of lava in any random room can suck the life right out of you real quick.  And starting over means grinding for health for a long time, so you do not want to die, period.  When certain death is potentially around every corner, that gets you into a game like nothing else does.

Once again, I agree that Super Metroid is the far superior game, but it absolutely does NOT have the same atmosphere as the original...

Edited January 7, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[Reed Rothchild | 9,513]

1 hour ago, DoctorEncore said:

I never played Super Metroid as a kid, but I adore Metroid Prime. I should definitely go back and play SM some day, but I didn't lost it in the backlog thread so that would be illegal and unethical. Perhaps next year.

Always watching

[Tanooki | 4,931]

Went for Super Metroid (no surprise given it) but I have to admit it's a close one with Zero Mission as that remaster and addition to the original is about equally fantastic.

[Webhead123 | 675]

20 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Went for Super Metroid (no surprise given it) but I have to admit it's a close one with Zero Mission as that remaster and addition to the original is about equally fantastic.

I only have two complaints about Zero Mission that keep it from ranking right beside Super for me:
1) The jumping physics, while not objectively "bad" just don't feel as good to me as the floatier jumping in Super.
2) I actually kind of hate the near-end "twist" sequence (if you've played it, you know what I'm talking about). I know they were going for a big diversion from the status quo and it definitely achieves that...but I've just never enjoyed playing through any of it. In fact, it actively prevents me from wanting to fully complete the game in repeat plays. I'll just play up to that point and shut the game off.

[TDIRunner | 2,730]

8 hours ago, Webhead123 said:

I only have two complaints about Zero Mission that keep it from ranking right beside Super for me:
1) The jumping physics, while not objectively "bad" just don't feel as good to me as the floatier jumping in Super.
2) I actually kind of hate the near-end "twist" sequence (if you've played it, you know what I'm talking about). I know they were going for a big diversion from the status quo and it definitely achieves that...but I've just never enjoyed playing through any of it. In fact, it actively prevents me from wanting to fully complete the game in repeat plays. I'll just play up to that point and shut the game off.

My biggest complaint with Zero Mission is the fact that they put a dot on the map with an arrow pointing to it saying "go here next."  It is a great game, but it's just not as good as Super Metroid.  

Super Metroid is one of those games that I DON'T want a remake for.  The reason being, what would I want them to do different in a remake?  The answerer for me is nothing, therefore a remake for me is pointless.  

[Estil | 1,264]

8 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

My biggest complaint with Zero Mission is the fact that they put a dot on the map with an arrow pointing to it saying "go here next." 

Isn't that feature optional though?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

9 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Super Metroid is one of those games that I DON'T want a remake for.  The reason being, what would I want them to do different in a remake?  The answerer for me is nothing, therefore a remake for me is pointless.  

Use Zero-Mission style play control similar to AM2R  (basically amounts to making the wall jump and ball-dash moves considerably less frustrating to execute in a consistent way)

[Br81zad | 629]

13 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Use Zero-Mission style play control similar to AM2R  (basically amounts to making the wall jump and ball-dash moves considerably less frustrating to execute in a consistent way)

That ledge cling is clutch  

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

28 minutes ago, Br81zad said:

That ledge cling is clutch  

That too -- but the timing of how the ball-related special moves work, is just so much smoother in a way that makes iusing it more of a puzzle element than an exercise is ultra-precise control that ends up being frustrating rather than fun.

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

12 hours ago, Webhead123 said:

 

11 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Always watching

Mr. Rothchild is always watching.

[TDIRunner | 2,730]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

Isn't that feature optional though?

If it is, that's news to me.  I've only played through the game twice (compared to dozens upon dozens of times for Super Metroid).  So it's certainly possible I missed that.  

[TDIRunner | 2,730]

1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

Use Zero-Mission style play control similar to AM2R  (basically amounts to making the wall jump and ball-dash moves considerably less frustrating to execute in a consistent way)

Damn you.  You made me realize there is ONE thing about Super Metroid I would change.  I would make the wall jumping easier.  I'm not a good wall jumper, so that would be nice.  However, I'm not interested in the other moves.  I don't need wall grabbing or ball-dash.