International Politics / Current Events Thread

[avatar! | 1,807]

3 minutes ago, Californication said:

It's crazy that it is 2021 and Israel is still able to get people to believe that tired story of Hamas being thr aggressor.

I suppose in your world it's okay to shoot rockets indiscriminately at civilian populations and not be called "thr[sic] aggressor" but fortunately most of the world sees differently. Hamas has only one goal, eliminate Israel and turn it into an Islamic country under Sharia law. Hamas is not only antisemitic, anti-Christian, but also routinely tortures and kills critics, targets civilian populations (as we all have seen numerous times), uses children as meat shields, represses the freedom of the press (by torturing and killing critics), represses women, and the list goes on. Only people who refuse to accept any semblance of the truth ignore how evil Hamas is.

[OptOut | 8,881]

Oh boy... Wait, stop, stop stop!!

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[Californication | 1,477]

13 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I suppose in your world it's okay to shoot rockets indiscriminately at civilian populations and not be called "thr[sic] aggressor" but fortunately most of the world sees differently. Hamas has only one goal, eliminate Israel and turn it into an Islamic country under Sharia law. Hamas is not only antisemitic, anti-Christian, but also routinely tortures and kills critics, targets civilian populations (as we all have seen numerous times), uses children as meat shields, represses the freedom of the press (by torturing and killing critics), represses women, and the list goes on. Only people who refuse to accept any semblance of the truth ignore how evil Hamas is.

I'll be nice. 

Why do you think the world thinks Hamas is thr aggressor?

Edit: Also, what do you think Hamas motive is for firing rockets?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Californication

[avatar! | 1,807]

1 minute ago, Californication said:

I'll be nice. 

Why do you think the world thinks Hamas is thr aggressor?

The world knows it's a terrorist organization. Here's a BBC article just published a few hours ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13331522

Hamas came to prominence after the first intifada as the main Palestinian group opposed to peace accords...Hamas found it had an effective power of veto over the process by launching suicide attacks...Hamas resisted all efforts to get it to sign up to previous Palestinian agreements with Israel, as well as to recognise Israel's legitimacy and to renounce violence.

Hamas's charter defines historic Palestine - including present-day Israel - as Islamic land and it rules out any permanent peace with the Jewish state.

The document also repeatedly makes attacks on Jews as a people, drawing charges that the movement is anti-Semitic...the humanitarian situation for the two million Palestinians in Gaza has deteriorated. The strip's economy has collapsed, and there are shortages of water, electricity and medicine.

The article above is very matter-of-fact and apolitical, although it leaves much out. Amnesty International accuses Hamas of war crimes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-hamas-rights/amnesty-international-hamas-committed-war-crimes-against-gaza-civilians-idUSKBN0OB2N420150527

“Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of ‘collaborating’ with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza,”

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

Crimes by Hamas include

• Repression of dissent

• Excessive use of force

• Torture and other ill-treatment

• Violence against women and girls

• No Right to a fair trial

• LGBTI denied basic rights and tortured/killed

• Numerous Executions without trial

• Abuses by armed groups

All of those crimes above are well documented by numerous groups. Furthermore, there is no way any country will say that Israel is the aggressor when it reacts to Hamas after hundreds of rockets are fired at civilian populations...

[Californication | 1,477]

Me and you can agree I think that there are country's out there that do not like the United States.

If this is true, there are country's that don't like the U.S., why are we almost never attacked by other country's?

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10 minutes ago, Californication said:

Me and you can agree I think that there are country's out there that do not like the United States.

If this is true, there are country's that don't like the U.S., why are we almost never attacked by other country's?

Because you're a nation of angry, idiotic, gun toting manics, just ITCHING for an excuse to use them?

[avatar! | 1,807]

6 minutes ago, Californication said:

Me and you can agree I think that there are country's out there that do not like the United States.

If this is true, there are country's that don't like the U.S., why are we almost never attacked by other country's?

The USA is not bordered by a country where the leaders of said country oppose peace and call for the destruction of the USA. Israel on the other hand shares a border with the West Bank which is ruled by Hamas which opposes peace and any reconciliation and in whose doctrine calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. If for some reason Ontario declared war on the USA and started indiscriminately shooting rockets at civilians, you can be sure the USA would make short work of that (no offense to anyone from Ontario

Quite seriously, this question "why do so many countries hate Israel" is not really a question but an antisemitic statement.  That statement can be traced to the legacy of antisemitism in the Arab world - which fortunately is changing in many countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world

Apart from its Arab neighbors, Israel was never hated. Also, much of the Arab world is actually friendly with Israel these days, including of course the now famous peace treaties with UAE, Morocco, Oman, Bahrain, and Sudan.

 

[Californication | 1,477]

9 minutes ago, avatar! said:

The USA is not bordered by a country where the leaders of said country oppose peace and call for the destruction of the USA. Israel on the other hand shares a border with the West Bank which is ruled by Hamas which opposes peace and any reconciliation and in whose doctrine calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. If for some reason Ontario declared war on the USA and started indiscriminately shooting rockets at civilians, you can be sure the USA would make short work of that (no offense to anyone from Ontario

Quite seriously, this question "why do so many countries hate Israel" is not really a question but an antisemitic statement.  That statement can be traced to the legacy of antisemitism in the Arab world - which fortunately is changing in many countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world

Apart from its Arab neighbors, Israel was never hated. Also, much of the Arab world is actually friendly with Israel these days, including of course the now famous peace treaties with UAE, Morocco, Oman, Bahrain, and Sudan.

 

We would make short work of them. Meaning we have the largest army in the world and other countrys know if they fooled with us we can destroy them. 

Israel is a nuclear powered state and they have pretty much an unlimited supply of weapons from the U.S. They are a small tiny little country but they could do a lot of damage to any of their neighbors especially if they chose to use their nuclear capabilites. 

The Palestineans are tiny little landlocked group, I don't even believe they are technically a state, but they have infrastructure, hospitals, schools, etc. 

So why do you think they would attack Israel? 

If you were Mexico for example, what would the U.S. have to do before you start shooting rockets at them?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Californication

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4 minutes ago, Californication said:

We would make short work of them. Meaning we have the largest army in the world and other countrys know if they fooled with us we can destroy them. 

[avatar! | 1,807]

7 minutes ago, Californication said:

We would make short work of them. Meaning we have the largest army in the world and other countrys know if they fooled with us we can destroy them. 

Israel is a nuclear powered state and they have pretty much an unlimited supply of weapons from the U.S. They are a small tiny little country but they could do a lot of damage to any of their neighbors especially if they chose to use their nuclear capabilites. 

The Palestineans are tiny little landlocked group, I don't even believe they are technically a state, but they have infrastructure, hospitals, schools, etc. 

So why do you think they would attack Israel? 

The question is not "why do you think they would attack Israel" but why does Hamas continue to attack Israel?

People have studied this, and the answer is really quite simple, Hamas uses the violence to stay in power

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/05/12/hamas-tries-to-seize-the-day/

You can read the article (or others like it) which discuss why Hamas refuses to accept peace, while other countries like UAE, Sudan, Egypt, etc. have peace with Israel. Basically the world is moving on and Hamas is now an afterthought. Not wanting to be an afterthought they resort to causing as much panic, destruction, as they can. They hope that sowing such rifts they can remain in power, and it's largely worked for them. After all, if there is any real dissent Hamas silences it's foes and this has been going on for decades

Hamas 'killing political rivals' in Gaza

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2009-04-21/hamas-killing-political-rivals-in-gaza/1657196

[Californication | 1,477]

6 minutes ago, avatar! said:

The question is not "why do you think they would attack Israel" but why does Hamas continue to attack Israel?

People have studied this, and the answer is really quite simple, Hamas uses the violence to stay in power

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/05/12/hamas-tries-to-seize-the-day/

You can read the article (or others like it) which discuss why Hamas refuses to accept peace, while other countries like UAE, Sudan, Egypt, etc. have peace with Israel. Basically the world is moving on and Hamas is now an afterthought. Not wanting to be an afterthought they resort to causing as much panic, destruction, as they can. They hope that sowing such rifts they can remain in power, and it's largely worked for them. After all, if there is any real dissent Hamas silences it's foes and this has been going on for decades

Hamas 'killing political rivals' in Gaza

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2009-04-21/hamas-killing-political-rivals-in-gaza/1657196

So you think they are insane?

[avatar! | 1,807]

Just now, Californication said:

So you think they are insane?

I think I've answered your questions. Whether a leader is "insane" would be an opinion, which if you really have to know, I don't think Hamas is insane. I think they know exactly what they are doing and they know that numerous civilians will die because of their actions, which makes Hamas "evil" not "insane".

[Californication | 1,477]

19 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I think I've answered your questions. Whether a leader is "insane" would be an opinion, which if you really have to know, I don't think Hamas is insane. I think they know exactly what they are doing and they know that numerous civilians will die because of their actions, which makes Hamas "evil" not "insane".

So you are saying that Hamas attacks Israel so Israel will kill civilians so Hamas can stay in power?

I mean it was Israel that murdered over 500 children in their 2014 attacks of Palestine. 

And it was Israel that cripled thousands of peaceful protestors by shooting them with sniper rifles in the 2018-2019 peaceful right of return protests.

Here take a look at what Israel did to children in 2014. Be careful though, I couldn't look at the pictures very long.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-09/these-are-images-gaza-are-too-graphic-many-us-news-outlets-publish-day-31

Edited May 14, 2021 by Californication

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Wow, they both sound terrible! Which group of mass murdering child killers are we supposed to be rooting for again??? 

[avatar! | 1,807]

40 minutes ago, Californication said:

Here take a look at what Israel did to children in 2014. Be careful though, I couldn't look at the pictures very long.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-09/these-are-images-gaza-are-too-graphic-many-us-news-outlets-publish-day-31

Those pictures are indeed horrible, and what you don't understand, or simply refuse to accept, is that all of that could have been avoided if Hamas had not fired rockets. Yes, in 2014 that is exactly what lead to the bloodshed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

Following the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas members, the IDF conducted Operation Brother's Keeper to arrest militant leaders, Hamas fired rockets into Israel and a seven-week conflict broke out.

There is always the question of what is an appropriate response? A good question to ask, but nevertheless if Hamas would not fire rockets indiscriminately at civilian populations, war would not have broken out. Same thing is happening now. As I said from the very beginning, Hamas does not care. Civilian deaths are (sadly) good propaganda for them.

I studied political science when I was an undergraduate and spent time in the Middle East, so I did get to see first-hand what was happening there. Overall, the Middle East is far more stable and a better place to visit now than in many decades. However, the situation in the West Bank has just deteriorated thanks to Hamas.

[Californication | 1,477]

3 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Those pictures are indeed horrible, and what you don't understand, or simply refuse to accept, is that all of that could have been avoided if Hamas had not fired rockets. Yes, in 2014 that is exactly what lead to the bloodshed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

Following the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas members, the IDF conducted Operation Brother's Keeper to arrest militant leaders, Hamas fired rockets into Israel and a seven-week conflict broke out.

There is always the question of what is an appropriate response? A good question to ask, but nevertheless if Hamas would not fire rockets indiscriminately at civilian populations, war would not have broken out. Same thing is happening now. As I said from the very beginning, Hamas does not care. Civilian deaths are (sadly) good propaganda for them.

I studied political science when I was an undergraduate and spent time in the Middle East, so I did get to see first-hand what was happening there. Overall, the Middle East is far more stable and a better place to visit now than in many decades. However, the situation in the West Bank has just deteriorated thanks to Hamas.

And the thousands of peaceful protestors the Israelis shot? How do you blame that on Hamas?

[avatar! | 1,807]

2 minutes ago, Californication said:

And the thousands of peaceful protestors the Israelis shot? How do you blame that on Hamas?

Anyone who opens fire on peaceful protestors should be arrested and tried. Any Israeli soldier that did that should absolutely be investigated. Of course, as usual you make it sound like Hamas here is waving white flags, while the truth is far darker - some of the "peaceful protesters" as you call them threw rockets, had explosives, molotovs, etc.

It's clear from the few lines you write down that you have not studied the conflict, I would encourage you to spend some time doing that and not just listening to one side. Maybe even visit the region yourself at some point, like I did. It might just open your eyes and you'll see life isn't black and white.

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1 hour ago, avatar! said:

It might just open your eyes and you'll see life isn't black and white.

It is if you are a doge. They only see black and white. And sometimes green.

[Californication | 1,477]

6 hours ago, avatar! said:

Anyone who opens fire on peaceful protestors should be arrested and tried. Any Israeli soldier that did that should absolutely be investigated. Of course, as usual you make it sound like Hamas here is waving white flags, while the truth is far darker - some of the "peaceful protesters" as you call them threw rockets, had explosives, molotovs, etc.

It's clear from the few lines you write down that you have not studied the conflict, I would encourage you to spend some time doing that and not just listening to one side. Maybe even visit the region yourself at some point, like I did. It might just open your eyes and you'll see life isn't black and white.

Israel shot and crippled thousands of civiians. There was a large barrier and the israelis had high positions in towers etc behind the barrier. The point of the protest was to show that Israelis would hurt the Palestineans no matter how peaceful the Palestineans were. And unfortunately Israel succeeding in showing how much they hate Palestineans. The Israeli's used the occasion to use special sniper rounds that "expand" when they hit people to do more damage. 

There were medical workers there that were clearly marked and they were targeted as well. 

Zero Israelis were killed. Pretty much zero Israeli's were hurt. 

Respectfully, I think that you should put some time in to learning how to vet news sources and just think about the things you are saying to see if it makes sense.

 

[a_profile_name | 230]

@Californication

Hamas is firing rockets on Israeli civilians for political gain. Last couple of weeks there were rising tensions in neighborhoods in east Jerusalem, with Palestinians protesting the continuing oppression by Israel (if you like, I can gladly go into more specific details). The struggle and protests were popular and grassroots, and Israeli police responded violently, as they tend to do.

What Hamas wants? To gain political credit in the eyes of the Palestinian population, as if they are responsible and leading these protests. To make people identify Hamas as representing these protests, even though they don't.

Personally, I completely support the Palestinian struggle to end the Israeli occupation, and to end all of forms of discrimination inside Israel. The current Israeli attack on Gaza is atrocious, and currently Israel is denying any cease fire talk (after all, the Israeli leadership was also just waiting for the oppurtunity to attack). But Hamas is not a party concerned with ending the occupation, they are only concerned with maintaining their political power.

I don't want it to come off as if I'm saying Hamas is responsible for the deaths in Gaza. It's the Israeli government that's responsible (and the last couple of days, all I'm doing every evening is demonstrating in the streets with this message). All I'm saying is that unfortunately, the actions of Hamas are not meant to support the struggle against the Israeli oppression.

[Hammerfestus | 3,822]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:44 PM, OptOut said:

Because you're a nation of angry, idiotic, gun toting manics, just ITCHING for an excuse to use them?

Hey!  I don’t want no backsass from somebody who eats baked beans with breakfast.

Don’t you know we are the divinely chosen rulers of the world?  We’ve got Jeesus on our side.

 

[OptOut | 8,881]

25 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

Hey!  I don’t want no backsass from somebody who eats baked beans with breakfast.

Don’t you know we are the divinely chosen rulers of the world?  We’ve got Jeesus on our side.

Oh yeah?! What are you going to do, huh???

SHOOT ME?! With your GUN??? The guns you own, and use, for... um?? Spree killing? Hunting ELK? Just to stand in front of a mirror and look cool? 

Damn, I wish I could own a gun. I would own a gun so bad, I would be free as FUCK! Free to spree kill whatever school I want. Kill REED. It would be awesome. Jealous. 

[Hammerfestus | 3,822]

17 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Oh yeah?! What are you going to do, huh???

SHOOT ME?! With your GUN??? The guns you own, and use, for... um?? Spree killing? Hunting ELK? Just to stand in front of a mirror and look cool? 

Damn, I wish I could own a gun. I would own a gun so bad, I would be free as FUCK! Free to spree kill whatever school I want. Kill REED. It would be awesome. Jealous. 

Listen buddy I’m just trying to help you out.  You’re gonna want to hire somebody else to do all that for you because I don’t know that your puny British arms could properly hold the gun.   Arms that are puny withered socialist from not holding guns all day.  Murica!

Edited May 15, 2021 by Hammerfestus

[Brickman | 3,982]

44 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

Hey!  I don’t want no backsass from somebody who eats baked beans with breakfast.

You haven’t lived until you’ve had a full English breakfast. So good, beats that weird can cheese someone was mentioning in another thread haha.

The best part of this thread has been this page with all of OptOuts comments and everyone ignoring him haha.

[OptOut | 8,881]

2 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

Listen buddy I’m just trying to help you out.  You’re gonna want to hire somebody else to do all that for you because I don’t know that your puny British arms could properly hold the gun.   Arms that are puny from not holding guns all day.  Murica!

I'll have you know I am well versed in handling a powerful package, which I shoot ALL over the place with regularity! I got forearms like a circus chimp, mate! 

1 minute ago, Shmup said:

The best part of this thread has been this page with all of OptOuts comments and everyone ignoring him haha.

I mean, I can tell they're reading them, that's good enough for me!

Do you think anyone would be tuning into this endlessly riveting political debate about depressing shit without a clown act to lighten the mood a little?