Game Debate #24: Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)

[GPX | 1,369]

21 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

You should absolutely play Sonic Mania, I would say it is almost objectively the best sonic game ever made.

I’ve yet to try Sonic Mania. What is it that makes it the best Sonic game in your view?

[RH | 4,895]

11 minutes ago, GPX said:

I’ve yet to try Sonic Mania. What is it that makes it the best Sonic game in your view?

It was a fan made Sonic and basically a love letter to Sonic that made Sonic amazing in the Genesis days.  But, with modern hardware, it has the extra horsepower to take the old 2D model and refine it to an extreme that wouldn't have been possible in the 90s, all the while not being to much flash.

It's hard to pin it, actually. It's like they took everything good from every 2D Sonic, trimmed of the fat, mashed it together but instead of getting a hodge podge mess, you got a really good Sonic game that was purely everything you ever loved about the series.

Plus it's dirt cheap and it's two games in one. It's a solid bargain.

Edited November 20, 2020 by RH

[Tanooki | 4,930]

I gave it a seven, almost a six.  At the time it arrived it was a pretty solid game, very good really, especially on that console given the other choices.  It was a fun outing, well designed and different control from your typical mascot platformer too.  Solid music, interesting concept, nice choice in stage designs.  It was a stand out, not a WHOA stand out, but a solid one either way.  Sonic 2 would end up the highlight in the end, shame it went into a plateau and down from there since pretty much.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

Just now, GPX said:

I’ve yet to try Sonic Mania. What is it that makes it the best Sonic game in your view?

Well I'll say upfront that I am quite sleep-deprived at the moment, so I may not be able to make as good of a case for it as I normally would be able to, as I've proclaimed my love for Mania to many people in the past. With that said...

It takes any of the flaws of the classic Sonic games, and dumps them. After doing that, it then laser focuses in on the best parts of the classic Sonic games, and enhances them. Everything is absolutely on point. The level design, the graphics, the controls, the music, the bosses, the bonus stages, everything is, in my opinion, Sonic at it's absolute peak. The controls feel exactly like the classic games, with only a slight bit more polish added in to make the overall experience a tad smoother. The graphics are absolutely beautiful, they sort of tried to go for somewhere in between a 32 and 64-bit style with them, since they were essentially treating it as a direct sequel to the classic Sonic trilogy and Sonic CD, so the graphics are not only beautiful, but also a natural evolution of the graphics in the classic games. The music is top notch, I would say objectively it's the best soundtrack in the series, and I'm not normally one to state my opinions as facts but I will absolutely fight any single one of you on that, hahaha.

The level design... I mean god, where do I even begin. The levels are absolutely amazing, and they all have tons of different paths you can take to the end. They have a lot of verticality to them, sort of like Sonic CD (while not taking it too far with the verticality like CD did in some places) and they're also pretty long, I would say longer than most of the levels in the classic games if memory serves. The challenge is also very good, it slowly and gradually ramps up in difficulty rather than having a few difficulty spikes, which is a problem the classic games sometimes had, particularly the first one. Also, and this is the part that impresses me the most about Mania, the later stages are actually still fun! Sometimes in the classic sonic games, and this is one of the only gripes I have about the series as a whole, is that the later stages in the games can definitely be frustrating and annoying at times. With Mania though, all of the stages are super super fun to play, even when they do get challenging.

But yeah, everything about it is top notch Sonic, but the level design in particular is the most important aspect of a Sonic game, and that's the part they nailed the most (Well, maybe other than the soundtrack, haha)

If you even slightly like Sonic, erase all doubts of whether or not you'll like Mania from your mind and just play it, you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to. And if you like Sonic more than just "slightly" liking it, then I don't see many worlds in which you wouldn't absolutely love Sonic Mania.

Anyway, I've made my case for Mania being a 10/10 video game and I'll leave it at that, I don't want to derail the thread too much. Sorry @Reed Rothchild, haha.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

10 minutes ago, RH said:

It was a fan made Sonic and basically a love letter to Sonic that made Sonic amazing in the Genesis days.  But, with modern hardware, it has the extra horsepower to take the old 2D model and refine it to an extreme that wouldn't have been possible in the 90s, all the while not being to much flash.

It's hard to pin it, actually. It's like they took everything good from every 2D Sonic, trimmed of the fat, mashed it together but instead of getting a hodge podge mess, you got a really good Sonic game that was purely everything you ever loved about the series.

Plus it's dirt cheap and it's two games in one. It's a solid bargain.

Yup, you and I are pretty much on the same page about it it seems.

And that's another thing too, it's basically an official, Sega-backed fan game, since it was made almost exclusively by huge fans of the series who had made a lot of Sonic fan games before working on Mania. That is, in no small part, the reason why it's a fantastic game I think.

[GPX | 1,369]

13 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

Well I'll say upfront that I am quite sleep-deprived at the moment, so I may not be able to make as good of a case for it as I normally would be able to, as I've proclaimed my love for Mania to many people in the past. With that said...

It takes any of the flaws of the classic Sonic games, and dumps them. After doing that, it then laser focuses in on the best parts of the classic Sonic games, and enhances them. Everything is absolutely on point. The level design, the graphics, the controls, the music, the bosses, the bonus stages, everything is, in my opinion, Sonic at it's absolute peak. The controls feel exactly like the classic games, with only a slight bit more polish added in to make the overall experience a tad smoother. The graphics are absolutely beautiful, they sort of tried to go for somewhere in between a 32 and 64-bit style with them, since they were essentially treating it as a direct sequel to the classic Sonic trilogy and Sonic CD, so the graphics are not only beautiful, but also a natural evolution of the graphics in the classic games. The music is top notch, I would say objectively it's the best soundtrack in the series, and I'm not normally one to state my opinions as facts but I will absolutely fight any single one of you on that, hahaha.

The level design... I mean god, where do I even begin. The levels are absolutely amazing, and they all have tons of different paths you can take to the end. They have a lot of verticality to them, sort of like Sonic CD (while not taking it too far with the verticality like CD did in some places) and they're also pretty long, I would say longer than most of the levels in the classic games if memory serves. The challenge is also very good, it slowly and gradually ramps up in difficulty rather than having a few difficulty spikes, which is a problem the classic games sometimes had, particularly the first one. Also, and this is the part that impresses me the most about Mania, the later stages are actually still fun! Sometimes in the classic sonic games, and this is one of the only gripes I have about the series as a whole, is that the later stages in the games can definitely be frustrating and annoying at times. With Mania though, all of the stages are super super fun to play, even when they do get challenging.

But yeah, everything about it is top notch Sonic, but the level design in particular is the most important aspect of a Sonic game, and that's the part they nailed the most (Well, maybe other than the soundtrack, haha)

If you even slightly like Sonic, erase all doubts of whether or not you'll like Mania from your mind and just play it, you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to. And if you like Sonic more than just "slightly" liking it, then I don't see many worlds in which you wouldn't absolutely love Sonic Mania.

Anyway, I've made my case for Mania being a 10/10 video game and I'll leave it at that, I don't want to derail the thread too much. Sorry @Reed Rothchild, haha.

No wonder why you’re sleep-deprived..you’re too busy writing novels! 

But thanks for the info. Sonic Mania is now on my hit list.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

6 minutes ago, GPX said:

No wonder why you’re sleep-deprived..you’re too busy writing novels!

I do tend to get more talkative the less sleep I get, so it checks out, hahaha. I just wanted to make a good case for the game, and I'm glad I did!

[OptOut | 8,881]

Yeah, Sonic Mania is gud.

[themisfit138 | 523]

7/10. I will go seven. If we were talking Sonic 2 it would be a nine. Everything is improved in Sonic 2. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by themisfit138

[RH | 4,895]

8 hours ago, RH said:

It was a fan made Sonic and basically a love letter to Sonic that made the series amazing in the Genesis days.  But, with modern hardware, it has the extra horsepower to take the old 2D model and refine it to an extreme that wouldn't have been possible in the 90s, all the while not being to much flash.

It's hard to pin it, actually. It's like they took everything good from every 2D Sonic, trimmed of the fat, mashed it together but instead of getting a hodge podge mess, you got a really good Sonic game that was purely everything you ever loved about the series.

Plus it's dirt cheap and it's two games in one. It's a solid bargain.

 

[Br81zad | 628]

14 hours ago, RH said:

Wow... I proclaimed to be a Sonic fan and I'm the lowest voter. Honestly, I'm surprised it's rating so high.  So, any "Mario kids" in here? You know, you guys who were dyed in the wool Mario fanbois, and always argued how Nintendo was infinity better?

How do you objectively see this game as an adult gamer?

I gave it a 7 based upon the scale descriptions. I really did enjoy it back then, but I really only got to play when I'd visit with friends who had a Genesis. So I had limited time with it, and that sort of increased the mystique of it. Even revisiting the game now, it's clearly well put together and fun. Just missing some key elements to make it great. And I still maintain the Super Mario World is better than an Sonic game ever created.  

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

18 hours ago, RH said:

Solid 5, and I love Sonic. I'm a Nintendo fan through and through, but as a kid I loved Sonic way better than Mario.

So, why is this a 5 rather than a 9/10? Because Sonic didn't become Sonic until the addition of the spin-dash in Sonic 2. Without it, the game is just ok but to me, it was a simple game mechanic design choice that greatly improved the entire game play experience for the rest of the 2D series.

This is exactly my thoughts on the game as well.

[AstralSoul | 502]

Not the best Sonic but it's still very good. It's probably nostalgia talking but I love this game. And I don't even like Sonic that much. Gave it a 9 though that is probably more than generous.

[fox | 1,665]

I agree that some of the sequels are better but the original is still a classic.  Amazing graphics, sense of speed, and that soundtrack!  This is the game that sold me (and many others) on the genesis.

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

This is a great game, but it doesn't hold up nearly as well as SMB. Unfortunately, it just can't maintain the momentum and joy the first level brings. I will never forget that soundtrack though.

[Nintegageo | 582]

I gave it a 7. Without GHZ though this would be a lower grade. Decent game but it certainly saw improvements with 2.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,011]

I LOVED this game and I do think it was one of the best released that year.

A Link to the Past, Metroid 2, Castlevania 4, Sonic 1, TMNT 3, Tecmo Super Bowl, Return of the Joker, Streets of Rage, SF2 Turbo.

Yeah definitely a great and and it sits among the top releases that year. It deserves the praise and started an epic run that lasted a generation for Sonic games. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

[TDIRunner | 2,725]

Super fun game, but the sequel improves on it in every way. While I still recommend the game, I'm also of the opinion that it's ok to skip this one and go straight to the sequel if you've never played it. 

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 697]

7/10, it got +1 for setting the groundwork for the sequels that were in every way better then this. Still a solid game in it's own right and worth a play for any retro enthusiast.

[Jicsan | 588]

Gave it a 7.  Green Hill Zone is totally worth a 10, too bad the whole rest of the game is not like it.  I always quit around Labyrinth Zone because I've ran out of patience by then.

[Sumer | 221]

I gave it an 8...and that is my rating for it when it first came out.  Sonic 2 would be just about a 10 (9.75?) to me.  Didn't really care for Sonic 3 (7) and Sonic CD was fun (8.5), but Sonic 2...now that is a game!

Anyway, when Sonic 1 came out, being a NES fan boy defending the NES from my rich kid friend who had a Genesis, literally, right when it came out (a few years later...his heart surgeon dad also bought him a Neo Geo AES and he had about 10 games for it...yeah...) and he just TRASHED the NES at that point.  And when Sonic 1 came out, I just about waved the white flag a bit due to the speed of the game.  I was secretly very jealous of him and his Genesis with Sonic 1.

Sonic 2 and Mortal Kombat are the games that made me and my brother pool our allowance, Xmas money, bday money, etc. all together to purchase a model 1 Genesis.  We needed the fatalities in our MK after playing it non-stop at the Aladdin's Castle.  We also hogged the Genesis demo unit at a local Software ETC (remember THAT store?) when Sonic 2 came out.  The clerk had to tell us to let other kids have a turn at Sonic 2.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

Grew up on Nintendo, briefly played Sonic 2 at an older cousin's house when I was small, never played the original until I got a Sega machine myself, used, from Funcoland as a teenager around 1997 or 1998.

The game gets a solid 6 from me. It's fun for sure, though it's not the best. It's the type of game I'd stick in and give one or two goes, then call it a day if I didn't complete it.

Part 2 is so much better, and I even think I enjoyed 3/Knuckles more than the original.

I see this one sort of like the original Mega Man, great concept, good game overall, though other later entries do it better than the original.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

Get a 4 from me.

Tons of games I'd rather play.

And maybe I haven't played the game enough to appreciate where the challenge lies, but I always thought the Sonic games seemed ridiculously easy (with the ring-health mechanic) and seem to cater to being "accessible" to kids where they feel like they're doing well by just rushing through the level in a way that would be unsurvivable in SMB without practice or skill.

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

I got a soft spot for Sonic.  He had just the right 'tude for a 13 year old in the early 90s.  Genesis was the first system I purchased with my own money and of course it came with Sonic packed in and a send away for a free copy of Sonic 2.  Went with a 6.  I don't play it too often but I'll bust it out every once in awhile.  Sonic 2 is where it's at though.