Movie Debate #33: Gangs of New York

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

Part 2 of 2 for @Californication's picks

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

Gloves: "Never heard of it"

Bearcat_Doug: "Why won't you do one of the 10 movies I've seen? *sob*"

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

Incredible movie. Also amazing just how much DDL outshines DiCaprio. 

[Hammerfestus | 3,833]

Excellent in every way. Big fan.  9

[Gloves | 11,776]

Heard of it. On the "to watch" list. But even so...

Never seen it.

[mbd39 | 2,020]

Needs a rewatch.

[Californication | 1,477]

Bill the Butcher is personally my favorite bad guy in any movie...ever. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

Great movie. Great performances from everyone.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Man, this thread makes me realize I'm a downer and pretentious, but here we go.

6/10. I think some of Scorsese's films get a pass from critics due to his remarkable filmography and this is one of them (Hugo is another that springs to mind). While not considered a masterpiece, I still think it's overrated. It's boring as hell and the plot is awful. It get points for amazing technical work on costumes and sets and having a ridiculous number of great actors on screen, but those things don't make it enjoyable. If this movie was thirty minutes shorter with tighter editing, I think it would be significantly better.

Edited August 31, 2020 by DoctorEncore

[Californication | 1,477]

1 hour ago, DoctorEncore said:

Man, this thread makes me realize I'm a downer and pretentious, but here we go.

5/10. I think some Scorses films get a pass from critics due to his remarkable filmography and this is one of them. While not considered a masterpiece, I still think it's overrated. It's boring as hell and the plot is awful. It get points for amazing technical work on costumes and sets and having a ridiculous number of great actors on screen, but those things don't make it enjoyable. If this movie was thirty minutes shorter with tighter editing, I think it would be significantly better.

When I first watched this one 20 years ago I didn't like it it, but something kept drawing me back I watched it maybe five times and I didn't like it. Then all of a sudden it clicked for me and I was in. Two points about rewatching - One I was young when this came out and age has changed the experience and two rewatching it lowers the length. When you first watch a movie everything is slowed down as you are waiting to see what happens, but after you have seen it, your expectations are gone and you dive into the details instead of feeling time.

I think it's a special movie because there isn't another movie like it. And ****SPOILERS ***    even though the story follows Leo, Bill the Butcher is the real star (which makes sense because he is Leo's father figure) and we the audience can see why Bill is worthy of being his father figure. Bill has a code, he can protect himself, he can cross the boundaries between rich and poor, and his level of respect is on par with the political leaders. The story dawdles a little bit here and there but so does Leo's character. He is young, over confident, and confused. Although this is a story about a man boy who wants revenge it is also the story of a boy trying to become a man. So Leo's goal of revenge gets waylaid by having a role model that is worthy of being his father figure. And Leo learns how to be a man by following in his father figures foot steps, taking one of his fathers women, and getting back up after being nearly killed. I rather like the ending because the bad guy (Bill the Butcher) doesn't lose. Leo never got his revenge. Leo mercifully killed Bill the Butcher who was injured. Leo did not succeed in avenging his biological father as we do not all succeed in our intial endeavors but can still grow on the path.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Californication

[Hammerfestus | 3,833]

@Californication Damn dude.  That was a really thoughtful analysis.  
 

I first got into this movie in college through a buddy that was a big movie buff, into cinematography and all that.  It definitely changed my perception of Leo as an actor.  Previously I’d always thought of him as the pretty boy heartthrob that did Titanic.  He’s actually phenomenally talented.  

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

59 minutes ago, Californication said:

When I first watched this one 20 years ago I didn't like it it, but something kept drawing me back I watched it maybe five times and I didn't like it. Then all of a sudden it clicked for me and I was in. Two points about rewatching - One I was young when this came out and age has changed the experience and two rewatching it lowers the length. When you first watch a movie everything is slowed down as you are waiting to see what happens, but after you have seen it, your expectations are gone and you dive into the details instead of feeling time.

I think it's a special movie because there isn't another movie like it. And ****SPOILERS ***    even though the story follows Leo, Bill the Butcher is the real star (which makes sense because he is Leo's father figure) and we the audience can see why Bill is worthy of being his father figure. Bill has a code, he can protect himself, he can cross the boundaries between rich and poor, and his level of respect is on par with the political leaders. The story dawdles a little bit here and there but so does Leo's character. He is young, over confident, and confused. Although this is a story about a man boy who wants revenge it is also the story of a boy trying to become a man. So Leo's goal of revenge gets waylaid by having a role model that is worthy of being his father figure. And Leo learns how to be a man by following in his father figures foot steps, taking one of his fathers women, and getting back up after being nearly killed. I rather like the ending because the bad guy (Bill the Butcher) doesn't lose. Leo never got his revenge. Leo mercifully killed Bill the Butcher who was injured. Leo did not succeed in avenging his biological father as we do not all succeed in our intial endeavors but can still grow on the path.

 

Blasphemy! There is no room on the internet for passionate, well-thought-out commentary like this! Not even a single mention of another forum user being a Nazi!

But in all seriousness, you make some very good points. I must admit that I've only seen the film once, although I was an adult and a father at the time. Additionally, I watched it while deployed so I wasn't trying to hurry through it. So, while I doubt I will ever grow to enjoy it in the ways that you do, I do appreciate your thoughtful response.

[TDIRunner | 2,733]

I've heard of it and remember when it was in theaters, but I've never seen it.  It isn't really on my list of movies to watch, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't watch it if the opportunity arose.  

[The Count | 526]

Bill the Butcher is such a great character. Don't forget the great John C. Reilly is in this one as well. 9/10.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

15 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Gloves: "Never heard of it"

Bearcat_Doug: "Why won't you do one of the 10 movies I've seen? *sob*"

I've actually seen this one. It was pretty good. 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

I gave it a 7 - interesting theme that doesn't get much coverage in either movies or printed accounts. If you want to read a bit more about the social conditions that those gangs operated within I suggest reading - The Good Old Days - They Were Terrible!* by Otto Bettman.  - he covers a bit about crime, gangs and whatnot among a lot of other things.**

The biggest let down about the movie for me was the rather abrupt and forced ending.  (It reminded me of an old National Lampoon article called "How to Write Good"  which suggested that you had to have a clever surprise ending such as the main characters being suddenly run over by a truck (the article was incomplete due (not surprisingly perhaps) to the author being suddenly run over by a truck).  That is how the movie ending felt to me - too abrupt without resolving much.

*The book covers a time period from the Civil War (without dwelling on the Civil War much) in the U.S. until the end of that century.  (Which overlaps (not coincidentally perhaps) with the transformation of U.S. society from a rural agrarian one to an urban industrial one.) 

**Reading the book will hopefully enlighten the reader into realizing how  far we as a society have progressed - in more than a few ways even the poorest people today  live better lives than the richest did back then.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tabonga

[DefaultGen | 5,401]

I have it on a review site as 8/10 but I haven't seen it in 15 years, so I might feel differently now. I was gonna say you need to stop picking universally acclaimed films and pick something more controversial but @DoctorEncore is here to save the day by trashing Martin Scorsese  

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

20 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

I have it on a review site as 8/10 but I haven't seen it in 15 years, so I might feel differently now. I was gonna say you need to stop picking universally acclaimed films and pick something more controversial but @DoctorEncore is here to save the day by trashing Martin Scorsese  

These have all been user-selected movies recently.

I tried to do some mixed reaction stuff (Star Wars, Last Action Hero, Paulie Shore) and I have a lot more in mind for the future

[Californication | 1,477]

23 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

I have it on a review site as 8/10 but I haven't seen it in 15 years, so I might feel differently now. I was gonna say you need to stop picking universally acclaimed films and pick something more controversial but @DoctorEncore is here to save the day by trashing Martin Scorsese  

How about Cop Land?

 

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

18 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

I have it on a review site as 8/10 but I haven't seen it in 15 years, so I might feel differently now. I was gonna say you need to stop picking universally acclaimed films and pick something more controversial but @DoctorEncore is here to save the day by trashing Martin Scorsese  

That was the gentlest trashing in the history of trashings! Besides, someone has to keep things interesting around here!

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

On 8/30/2020 at 10:35 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

Gloves: "Never heard of it"

Bearcat_Doug: "Why won't you do one of the 10 movies I've seen? *sob*"

You got lucky. Feel free to pick more movies that I've seen.