American Politics / Current Events Thread

[Estil | 1,258]

39 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

Shocking that the people cheering the death of someone who chose not to mask, are the same ones blaming police/systemic racism for Michael Brown's death.

Even though Darren Wilson was cleared completely of wrongdoing once we found out what really happened.  But they don't care about ruining an innocent man's life.

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

Who is they?

[Estil | 1,258]

3 hours ago, Californication said:

Those are two completly different things.

The protesters understand that corona virus is real and they are willing to put their health at risk to challenge the power structure.

Herman Cain like Fox News, and Donald Trump, have promoted that people shouldn't wear masks and people are dying because of it. Look at all the deaths and future deaths in Florida and Texas, a lot of those were completly preventable.

I don't really get the difference.  And it's not their health they're putting at risk.  It's my understanding the masks can only reduce the risk of giving someone the (or at least a) virus...it does nothing to reduce the risk of receiving the virus.  So if like you insist Trump and co. not encouraging mask usage is putting people's health at risk...then you gotta be fair and consistent that the rioters/vandals (and for this one case the regular law abiding protesters too) who choose not to wear masks and gather so close together like they do pose just as if not more of a health risk to those around them.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

16 minutes ago, Estil said:

 It's my understanding the masks can only reduce the risk of giving someone the (or at least a) virus...it does nothing to reduce the risk of receiving the virus.  

Then your understanding is incorrect.

The masks are MORE HELPFUL at preventing the wearer from GIVING it to someone else, yes.  THIS is why we need EVERYONE to be willing to wear a mask in public, so that unknown carriers don't spread it.

But they are STILL BETTER THAN NOTHING at mitigating how much virus the wearer comes into contact with. (and depending on the type of mask, if you wear it properly and don't touch your eyes/face, is actually pretty effective)

 

Anyone claiming they are useless is flat out wrong.

Edited July 30, 2020 by arch_8ngel

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

6 minutes ago, Estil said:

I don't really get the difference.  And it's not their health they're putting at risk.  It's my understanding the masks can only reduce the risk of giving someone the (or at least a) virus...it does nothing to reduce the risk of receiving the virus.  So if like you insist Trump and co. not encouraging mask usage is putting people's health at risk...then you gotta be fair and consistent that the rioters/vandals (and for this one case the regular law abiding protesters too) who choose not to wear masks and gather so close together like they do pose just as if not more of a health risk to those around them.

You keep creating this group of people who approve and encouraged the protestors to not wear masks, because you have this odd obsession with the BLM protestors.  Who specifically thought it was ok? Can you name them? I would like to see what they said about it. 
 

Nobody thought NOT wearing masks was a great idea at protests (for the record, I saw tons of footage of people actually wearing masks). Its dumb not to. And if those people caught it and died, it is what it is. 
 

That Being said, POTUS =\= random BLM protestors. Trump has a moral And professional responsibility to protect and lead ALL of America, Including terrible garbage costal elites like myself who think he is a ass clown. Trump supporters are literally dying, because he made it a political thing and talked about how it makes you look “weak” - (similar to being a whining liar, who cowed before putin/ dodged the draft, insulting women etc.) Just look at Florida, and Texas. 
 

PS I am going to continue to respond to you, even when you ignore my evidence I provide FYI. 
 

Believe in whatever you want, just be prepared to defend your point when you wade into political discussion on the internet. 

[Tulpa | 3,485]

22 minutes ago, Estil said:

 It's my understanding the masks can only reduce the risk of giving someone the (or at least a) virus...it does nothing to reduce the risk of receiving the virus. 

[Estil | 1,258]

3 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

You keep creating this group of people who approve and encouraged the protestors to not wear masks, because you have this odd obsession with the BLM protestors.

No no no no no, I said nothing of the sort.  I'm just saying there were those who chose not to and the fact that they gather so close together (as all demonstrations/protests do with enough people) only makes the risk worse.

It's a lot easier to defend my points when you (or the others) can actually get what my point/view is right.  

[Estil | 1,258]

Just now, Tulpa said:

All right I guess I stand corrected; and I did in fact goof and use the absolutist fallacy ("does nothing").  

And for the record YES I am wearing my mask to the grocery store (I don't really go anywhere else and when I do go to the store I try to stock up and keep trips to a minimum) just as our fearless leader in Frankfort urges us to.  I don't think it's the kind of thing you'd get arrested for exactly but the store would no doubt refuse me service/entry without one.  I guess now the saying (at least for now) is No Shoes, No Shirt, No Mask, No Service?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 minute ago, Estil said:

I guess now the saying (at least for now) is No Shoes, No Shirt, No Mask, No Service?

But muh constitutional rights!

[Estil | 1,258]

2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

But muh constitutional rights!

Hey what are you saying that at me for?  I've stressed probably more than anyone here the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and whatnot and why it's so important (especially the First Amendment)!

I mean we've had it for ~230 years and we've only needed 17 Amendments during all those ~230 years since the original Bill of Rights.  Well, we've changed it 15 times if you count the 13/14/15 Amendments as a three-in-one package deal.  And the last change occurred in 1992 and second to last change in 1971...so I guess it must be doing something right!

Edited July 30, 2020 by Estil

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

15 minutes ago, Estil said:

No no no no no, I said nothing of the sort.  I'm just saying there were those who chose not to and the fact that they gather so close together (as all demonstrations/protests do with enough people) only makes the risk worse.

It's a lot easier to defend my points when you (or the others) can actually get what my point/view is right.  

Then I agree with you. 
 

Your point tends to get convoluted because it ends up appearing like “but what about the protestors?”

 

And yes, all the people getting close is bad. However it was outside which mitigates some of the danger, unlike being in a church/restaurant/concert etc. 

[Estil | 1,258]

5 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Your point tends to get convoluted because it ends up appearing like “but what about the protestors?”

I've said from the very start that my beef (not counting the mask thing) is with the rioters/vandals...not the regular peaceful protesters.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

18 minutes ago, Estil said:

Hey what are you saying that at me for?  I've stressed probably more than anyone here the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and whatnot and why it's so important (especially the First Amendment)!

I mean we've had it for ~230 years and we've only needed 17 Amendments during all those ~230 years since the original Bill of Rights.  Well, we've changed it 15 times if you count the 13/14/15 Amendments as a three-in-one package deal.  And the last change occurred in 1992 and second to last change in 1971...so I guess it must be doing something right!

*whoosh*

It's a general commentary on the fact that you don't see the "don't tread on me" crowd piss and moan about having to wear a shirt in a restaurant, but suddenly wearing a mask (ordered by their state, which CAN do so) is a bridge too far and they're being oppressed.

 

[Estil | 1,258]

Just now, arch_8ngel said:

*whoosh*

It's a general commentary on the fact that you don't see the "don't tread on me" crowd piss and moan about having to wear a shirt in a restaurant, but suddenly wearing a mask (ordered by their state, which CAN do so) is a bridge too far and they're being oppressed.

Don't Tread On Me?  Yeah that's all fine and good...all the more reason to ensure the virus doesn't tread on you!  And surely they can get a mask with the classic Don't Tread On Me flag design right?  There ya go, everybody wins.

[Doctornick | 419]

So sorry for the dark turn in advance, but here is a glimpse into a lot of healthcare workers' minds right now (we never admit it).

At first it was almost a celebratory feeling watching case counts and deaths pile up due to sheer ignorance and disregard for obvious truths (Florida and Texas).  Then you see the kids someone left behind, a spouse, etc and that snaps you right back into reality.  The only positive outcome from obvious anti-mask people dying is when it causes others to reflect and realize they were wrong.  Until this country has more than 70% of our citizens wearing masks in public, it could be someone you know in the hospital dying.

Just something to think about when you celebrate someone's death.

 

[Link | 2,707]

5 hours ago, Estil said:

I mean there was all the time in the world to attack/criticize/put under the microscope/whatever when they were alive and in their prime. 

People do that and you write it off as baseless, unsubstantiated rhetoric “just saying ‘Orange man bad!’”

1 hour ago, Estil said:

the rioters/vandals (and for this one case the regular law abiding protesters too) who choose not to wear masks

I’ll say as well that in most of the pictures /footage I saw, it was hard to find people without masks.

That’s protestors. I don’t think I’ve seen m/any pictures of rioters and vandals, but on that, who defends that activity such that you keep bringing it up?

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

41 minutes ago, Estil said:

I've said from the very start that my beef (not counting the mask thing) is with the rioters/vandals...not the regular peaceful protesters.

Ok, then thats just the white nationalist agitators, not The entire BLM movement. Maybe even paid for by some of your favorite republicans!!

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

42 minutes ago, Estil said:

Don't Tread On Me?  Yeah that's all fine and good...all the more reason to ensure the virus doesn't tread on you!  And surely they can get a mask with the classic Don't Tread On Me flag design right?  There ya go, everybody wins.

Best thing I saw today was somebody selling a nice functional grade of mask with the slogan "this mask is useless" emblazoned on it for that crowd to wear "ironically"... while still tricking them into doing something helpful.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

17 minutes ago, Link said:

People do that and you write it off as baseless, unsubstantiated rhetoric “just saying ‘Orange man bad!’”

I will never get over how quickly the crowd that decried every action taken by Obama, to include inane shit like his choice of mustard, trivialized all criticisms of Trump as "orange man bad" -- and THEN immediately shifted gears into "biden is senile" with no further critique.

The cognitive dissonance is staggering.

[Tulpa | 3,485]

15 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

I will never get over how quickly the crowd that decried every action taken by Obama, to include inane shit like his choice of mustard, trivialized all criticisms of Trump as "orange man bad" -- and THEN immediately shifted gears into "biden is senile" with no further critique.

The cognitive dissonance is staggering.

Gee, that sounds familiar.

Meanwhile, we have a president who wants to openly defy the constitution and delay elections. And his supporters will say it's perfectly sensible.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Tulpa

[Link | 2,707]

He wore a tan   suit    Can you imagine if he had worn an ill-fitting baseball cap, navy blue sport coat with white polo shirt, and khakis? 

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

27 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Best thing I saw today was somebody selling a nice functional grade of mask with the slogan "this mask is useless" emblazoned on it for that crowd to wear "ironically"... while still tricking them into doing something helpful.

Sounds like SF nowadays, crawling with ironic hipsters. 
 

11 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Gee, that sounds familiar.

Meanwhile, we have a president who wants to openly defy the constitution and delay elections. And his supporters will say it's perfectly sensible.

BuT heS juSt JoKinG aNd TRoLling THe pReSS

[MrWunderful | 2,926]

1 minute ago, Link said:

He wore a tan   suit    Can you imagine if he had worn an ill-fitting baseball cap, navy blue sport coat with white polo shirt, and khakis? 

Thats one of my favorites. Fox News and the republicans Are legit hipsters (speaking of hipsters)-
 

pearl Clutching since before it was the cool SJW thing to do. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

10 minutes ago, Link said:

He wore a tan   suit    Can you imagine if he had worn an ill-fitting baseball cap, navy blue sport coat with white polo shirt, and khakis? 

He legitimately deserved to get ragged on over the mom-jeans, though.  That was WELL into the era of men being able to buy decent fitting jeans off-the-rack, let alone getting stuck with a 90's-mom-butt profile.

[Rhino | 105]

On 7/28/2020 at 11:49 AM, Link said:

Once upon a time, someone thought he was teaching me a lesson by saying corellation is not causation. I would like his opinion of this.

I guess you were talking about me so I'll address @Silent Hill post below. You want to know what causes crime in most areas? Like @Silent Hill said, many factors. It's likely a combination of historical suppression of giving minorities rights to wealth such as to be able to buy land or a home. It's also probably some of what @Silent Hill said. I think drug use plays a large roll in crime ridden areas for any race. You have drugs, you have addicts, you have addicts, you have people who need more drugs, you have people who need more drugs, you have people who can no longer work sober, you have mass unemployment, you have people needing ways to get money, you need money, you steal stuff to sell it. Once drugs are introduced, families get torn apart, which can lead to a lack of a 2 person household. Culture and personal decisions could play a role too. Buy a house vs rent an apartment forever. Go to college or not. If you can't pass on wealth, it's really hard for the next generation to do well. You want to get wealth? Buy a house. It's the single biggest way to pass on wealth. 

On 7/28/2020 at 9:57 AM, Silent Hill said:

Many factors of course, but which have the biggest impact today is the question.

You may say trickle down effects from historic systemic racism play the biggest part, while I may say the lack of two parent households, culture and personal decisions have the most impact in recent years/decades. 

 

4 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

Shocking that the people cheering the death of someone who chose not to mask, are the same ones blaming police/systemic racism for Michael Brown's death.

Didn't mask and died? = Deserving

Stealing, assaulting an officer, attempting to take his gun, and then being shot? = Unjustified

I lold pretty hard at this. It's amazing how people can preach equality and justice and then turn around and be like that b!tch deserved to die. 

2 hours ago, Doctornick said:

So sorry for the dark turn in advance, but here is a glimpse into a lot of healthcare workers' minds right now (we never admit it).

At first it was almost a celebratory feeling watching case counts and deaths pile up due to sheer ignorance and disregard for obvious truths (Florida and Texas).  Then you see the kids someone left behind, a spouse, etc and that snaps you right back into reality.  The only positive outcome from obvious anti-mask people dying is when it causes others to reflect and realize they were wrong.  Until this country has more than 70% of our citizens wearing masks in public, it could be someone you know in the hospital dying.

Just something to think about when you celebrate someone's death.

 

All you clowns laughing at people dying from COVID-19 or thinking people deserve it need to grow the f*ck up. This is not a f*cking game or joke. This is a serious pandemic killing an average of over 1,000 Americans every day, and far more globally. Every f*cking day. It sucks. At this rate, there will be over 250k dead Americans by the end of the year from this virus. Put a f*cking mask on, stay inside as much as possible, stop f*cking throwing parties and seeing your friends and going on vacation, and shut it all back down because guess what, the dark reality is no vaccine is coming for another 6-12 months.