Music Debate #73: Insane Clown Posse

[Kguillemette | 1,543]

8 hours ago, tbone3969 said:

I hear what you are saying as it does fit with what the OP has as a definition of a 10.  To me 10 ratings are thrown around way too much in these polls and in game reviews.  A true ten IMO should be almost unattainable, almost perfect in every way.  I remember back in the day (I am 41) when a game got a ten it was a big deal.  There were very few around (I think Ocarina was one of the first).  Now there are a bunch every year.  What do I know???

The way I have always interpreted these polls is that they aren't judged objectively. They are biased by intention and that's what makes them fun. 

I personally strongly dislike ICP. But their shock value lyrics and songs get the occasional chuckle out of me. So 2/10.

[Hammerfestus | 3,824]

I really don’t get it.  Not really familiar with their music but the clips above didn’t really seem to be particularly worse than the rest of the hip hops.  The juggalo thing is weird and cringey as hell though.   2.
 

 

[The Count | 526]

How DO magnets work?

[Jeevan | 8,909]

21 hours ago, Magus said:

1/10

Everything about these guys is absolute cringe for me, from the music to the entirety of juggalo culture. Like i get second hand embarassment when i see anything involving them. 

The sad part is, the juggalos are pretty much everyone in my hometown   or at least that is what they remind me of.

[RH | 4,897]

I made a mistake in my vote. 0/10. I had a guy show them to me my senior year of high school (98/99) and I think back then they were kind of a underground band and most nobody had heard of them. He thought they were funny and not to be taken seriously and that's what caught his interest. Anyway, even at 17 I didn't get it, and I was a pretty lowbrow teenager who still liked everything Adam Sandler and was mildly entertained by old Paulie Shore.

Edited July 23, 2020 by RH

[Link | 2,708]

Except one, the songs in the OP all suck. But the early stuff didn’t have videos, I’m guessing.

I give ‘em a 6. It’s pretty sad how idiotic their fan base is or was and that put me off them once I found out. 

When their fourth album Great Milenko came out they got press. It was their first on a major label. There was a big article in the newspaper about them and I was very interested. I got all their albums to that point. The first two are extremely roughly done. Very amateur and poor production. I don’t have them any more. The third and fourth are a lot better. I didn’t keep up with them after that because of the juggalo subculture thing.

The magnets thing is weird and so is the stuff about the joker cards being God, but again that’s after my time. They had songs about getting bullied and against domestic violence. And this quote from an interview recently came to my attention. So I have to give them some respect.

[AstralSoul | 502]

Repulsive.

[G-type | 2,479]

I'm going to abstain, because I'm not into it and don't want to skew the results downward. I don't care for them, but I still think they are one of the most important bands of the last 20 years

[Gloves | 11,762]

21 hours ago, Link said:

Except one, the songs in the OP all suck. But the early stuff didn’t have videos, I’m guessing.

I give ‘em a 6. It’s pretty sad how idiotic their fan base is or was and that put me off them once I found out. 

When their fourth album Great Milenko came out they got press. It was their first on a major label. There was a big article in the newspaper about them and I was very interested. I got all their albums to that point. The first two are extremely roughly done. Very amateur and poor production. I don’t have them any more. The third and fourth are a lot better. I didn’t keep up with them after that because of the juggalo subculture thing.

The magnets thing is weird and so is the stuff about the joker cards being God, but again that’s after my time. They had songs about getting bullied and against domestic violence. And this quote from an interview recently came to my attention. So I have to give them some respect.

I'll always respect the ability to call oneself out and grow with the times. Big up for him from me there.

[Hammerfestus | 3,824]

23 hours ago, RH said:

and I was a pretty lowbrow teenager who still liked everything Adam Sandler and was mildly entertained by old Paulie Shore.

What’s wrong with Pauly Shore?

[NESfiend | 1,514]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:29 AM, Jeevan said:

Im not gonna lie.  Im a closet juggalo.  10 for me.  Hear me out.  It is all about the shock value for this band.  I don't think, and no offense reed, that the actual artist is represented very well in the choices......most of those are censored......but anyway.

Judge me if you want, but I like them, listened to them quite a bit when I was younger, and will still listen to them today.

This vote is impossible for me and the problem is they were REALLY cool in 1995 (I was in seventh grade) and they are really SHITTY today. All those videos on the thread are newer stuff. The music was much better and it fit with the 90s teenage angst/rebelling from norms, etc. Riddle Box was the pinnacle and it was so fitting for the time. Even though it was murder rap, it came with great messaging. Everyone getting killed fit with a progressive theme, as @Link alluded to. They primarily killed racists, drunk wife beaters, wealthy people who refused to help the less fortunate, etc. Their cover art was cool and the t-shirts looked great with jenkos. If you were a nerd in the 90s, ICP was a great outlet where different was cool. And it kind of worked even outside the club. In 7th grade, counterculture/cussing on records, etc. was cool as shit. I remember impressing girls I wouldn't have otherwise had any chance with introducing them to ICP, strange as that sounds. But the juggalo culture wasn't really a thing then. It was just cool music. 

But its 25 years later. And they are still making music and the culture has spiraled into crap. The music is terrible now and doesn't fit with the old themes at all. Its just whatever sounds catchy enough to print and sell to their loyal base and they won't stop until people stop buying. Kind of ironic considering they were so not about the money and made it pretty clear that they were only going to release 6 albums, the 6 jokers cards. That promplty went out the window and by the time the 6th album came, it was enough already anyway. And that was 15 plus years ago. What other bands from the 90s are still making music. These guys were making music and known around Detroit in 80s. 

In 1995, they were a 10. Today, they are a 2 or 3 at best. Impossible to vote on this!

Edited July 24, 2020 by NESfiend

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

I'm not gonna know every artist inside and out (I know nothing about ICP), and I can only link so many songs, even for prolific artists.  If people think we need exposure to whatever deep cut, go ahead and link it.

And it looks like Hokus Pokus is from 1997.

[NESfiend | 1,514]

4 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'm not gonna know every artist inside and out (I know nothing about ICP), and I can only link so many songs, even for prolific artists.  If people think we need exposure to whatever deep cut, go ahead and link it.

And it looks like Hokus Pokus is from 1997.

I didn't mean to complain about the selection or job you have done with that the thread at all. Moreso just illustrating that these guys should have been done around the year 2000 and they are still pumping out crap in 2020. And yeah, hokus pokus is more a old school track. I honestly missed that. Its from Great Milenko, the album after riddle box, and the same album disney pulled off the shelves of stores a day or two after its release. 

But it really wouldn't matter if you had chosen all the right songs from their heyday. Its very much a time and a place sort of thing. If you didn't know it or like it 1995, you are not going to pick it up fresh in 2020 and get into it. That said, it is definitely worth pointing out that the shitshow that is ICP today isn't really representative of what they were in their prime at all. 

[Jeevan | 8,909]

17 hours ago, NESfiend said:

This vote is impossible for me and the problem is they were REALLY cool in 1995 (I was in seventh grade) and they are really SHITTY today. All those videos on the thread are newer stuff. The music was much better and it fit with the 90s teenage angst/rebelling from norms, etc. Riddle Box was the pinnacle and it was so fitting for the time. Even though it was murder rap, it came with great messaging. Everyone getting killed fit with a progressive theme, as @Link alluded to. They primarily killed racists, drunk wife beaters, wealthy people who refused to help the less fortunate, etc. Their cover art was cool and the t-shirts looked great with jenkos. If you were a nerd in the 90s, ICP was a great outlet where different was cool. And it kind of worked even outside the club. In 7th grade, counterculture/cussing on records, etc. was cool as shit. I remember impressing girls I wouldn't have otherwise had any chance with introducing them to ICP, strange as that sounds. But the juggalo culture wasn't really a thing then. It was just cool music. 

But its 25 years later. And they are still making music and the culture has spiraled into crap. The music is terrible now and doesn't fit with the old themes at all. Its just whatever sounds catchy enough to print and sell to their loyal base and they won't stop until people stop buying. Kind of ironic considering they were so not about the money and made it pretty clear that they were only going to release 6 albums, the 6 jokers cards. That promplty went out the window and by the time the 6th album came, it was enough already anyway. And that was 15 plus years ago. What other bands from the 90s are still making music. These guys were making music and known around Detroit in 80s. 

In 1995, they were a 10. Today, they are a 2 or 3 at best. Impossible to vote on this!

Ill give you that and that is a very, very fair assessment, but I still like them and I still stand by my vote .  Ya some of their new shit does suck, but I remember when I discovered ringmaster and riddle box.  So.......I guess it is what it is.......To each their own.

[Jeevan | 8,909]

 

So, none of you might actually care, but there are 3 very good albums to show what they were like in their height imo.  But anyway........still stand by my 10

[twiztor | 849]

i haven't decided how to vote yet.

not gonna lie, i was heavily into ICP for a number of years. Starting about 1996 (i was 13) until about 2002ish, they and their stable of artists was pretty much all i would listen to. Everything after 2004 is super cringe and i can't understand how anybody could get into their music starting new. The Great Milenko, released in 1997, is probably their most heralded release. It definitely spoke to me when i was 15. Just for kicks, i put it on after reading this thread the other day and many of the lyrics are still in my head. It's not going to win you over if you already have an opinion or advanced musical tastes, but it is still a fun listen.

As @NESfiend alluded to, ICP made a career out of giving a voice to kids who felt like they were outcasts or didn't belong. They really created a group for these "misfits" to fit into. I'm not sure exactly when the shift happened, but it slowly turned into the Juggalo Culture that is super weird and the total shitshow it is today. One of the things that really sucked me in was that it was more than just a band releasing albums. ICP puts out a brand new song for free every year on Halloween. They started doing this in 1994 and still do it to this day! They appeared in WCW, WWF, and ECW, and even started their own wrestling promotion! They had their own comic book (each issue came with a new cd single!) They made their own movie! They'd make cryptic statements so you'd analyze what they were implying. All of it added up to truly engross those who were invested. They were two guys who painted themselves to look like clowns and rapped. But they built an underground empire. 

edit: i voted 8. maybe typing this post out just brought up nostalgia. i dunno.

Edited July 25, 2020 by twiztor

[JamesRobot | 5,786]

I like ICP this much:

[zombiemicrowave | 42]

TBH, I almost bought that video back in the day for the Misfits cameo.  lol  

[Link | 2,708]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:14 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

I'm not gonna know every artist inside and out

Of course not. And if you’re only posting videos (good policy imo) you won’t find anything from the first three albums because they had no budget then. 

On 7/24/2020 at 12:14 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

And it looks like Hokus Pokus is from 1997.

That’s the “except one” that I mentioned. 

I’d put up Toy Box and Ol’ Evil Eye (1995)

and Hall of Illusions (1997)

(there’s a real video for this one, but half the lyrics are censored so much they don’t make any sense)

Edited July 26, 2020 by Link

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 697]

Myself, I'm not a juggalo. I personally was never able to take their music too seriously (I got some kicks out of it in my middle & highschool days) but I know many who did, a number of friends over the years that were or are huge Juggalos.

I've heard quite a bit of their music mostly for the above reasons. Also being from Michigan, I feel like it's one of those prerequisites to at least be aware of ICP, it ranks up there in the culture with drinking Vernor's Ginger Ale and instinctual hatred of Ohio lol

Related to what @Link shared, one of the things I've heard over the years is how Shaggy and Violent J are actually pretty good guys. In particular their comments on the violence depicted in their music, they do it as an outlet https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/avyde5/tears-of-a-clown-insane-clown-posse-find-hope-after-a-life-of-struggle-and-trauma-456

Quote

"In our music, we express a lot of anger. A lot of the anger we express is still very real. It's just easier to say it on your record, and it's amplified on our records," Violent J told me. "If we talk about killing a pedophile, that comes from somewhere. That's real anger. We wish we could kill a pedophile, so we do it on the albums."

The article is a pretty good read, gotta give the guys props at least for trying to spread/encourage some form of positivity, even if it's in a particularly weird and off base way.

5/10

Also this lol

Edited August 8, 2020 by SpoonMan Abrams X