OptOut | 8,883 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Sign Collector Guy said: One thing also is the 8.0 grade on the cart. That is phenomenal for a gray. You aren’t missing anything. This is just how things are going. Ah yeah, I didn't account for the grade. But still, not sure I would have made that trade, if the 160 thousand value on that baseball card is accurate... I think I would have taken the card tbh, but who knows where we'll be a few years out?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sign Collector Guy | 334 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, 98ViperGTS said: Mine isn't graded right now, but it's the one with the piece of plastic missing on the bottom. I'm guessing it would grade at a 4 or 5. The label is pretty nice. It's definitely better than #240 (the pimpled cart) that graded at a 3. Gotcha. Yeah it really doesn’t need to be graded unless you plan on selling it IMO. but its also cool to have graded as a collector and wanting to own it forever. Its a tough pill to swallow but this cart has been on the rise for awhile and the recent folks now in the market have helped push it to higher levels. People have to put it into perspective. Serious comic/coin/card collectors have the money to obtain the “key” title in this hobby and many want to get them sooner than later. There is simply this market that exists and that the other 99% of game collectors will simply just have to spectate from the sidelines, booing and heckling in most cases. Me, it is what it is and I enjoy watching it unfold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sign Collector Guy | 334 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 21 minutes ago, OptOut said: Ah yeah, I didn't account for the grade. But still, not sure I would have made that trade, if the 160 thousand value on that baseball card is accurate... I think I would have taken the card tbh, but who knows where we'll be a few years out?! I think the 8.0 gray is the highest known. Not real sure but the highest grade in a gray will always command a hella premium. Just like comics and coins. condition and rarity etc push the values for those wanting to aquire. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sign Collector Guy said: I think the 8.0 gray is the highest known. Not real sure but the highest grade in a gray will always command a hella premium. Just like comics and coins. condition and rarity etc push the values for those wanting to aquire. IMO Condition, rarity,and the original owner of the cart in most cases now. Like Thor etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,369 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 12 hours ago, Sign Collector Guy said: I think the 8.0 gray is the highest known. Not real sure but the highest grade in a gray will always command a hella premium. Just like comics and coins. condition and rarity etc push the values for those wanting to aquire. IMO Still seems a ridiculously out of balance trade if supposedly the card is worth $160,000. Considering an NWC cart has never sold more than 100K previously. Even if an 8.0 is a relative high grade, why would it suddenly jump higher than the 100K value of the sealed Mario? What’s the real rationale of the trade as opposed to selling the card for around $150K and offering a decent cash for the NWC with some spare cash of around $50-75K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,369 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 2:07 PM, fiercefoxx said: Hello, This may already be on the site already, but I couldn't find anything after a quick search. IF this has been posted already, please feel free to lock/delete. NWC 1990 eBay ($150,000 OBO) Above is a grey cart that is currently on eBay. My guess would be that the seller is a member on this site, as he has been selling games for a while it seems. I have a few questions and concerns. I was hoping to get your opinions. Why wouldn't the seller give some background/history on the cart? Barebones info given (if even that). Doesn't it seem a bit irresponsible to grade and seal THIS game closed (without opening shell and showing guts in case)? It just seems to me this gives graders a lot of power that may be abused someday (although highly unlikely). Company could always be bribed or take advantage of buyers by casing a near perfect imitation to unsuspecting individuals. What are your thoughts on the future of NWC '90s carts? It's always been the holy grail for me, but the older I get (and more valuable those games get), the more I realize that fakes will occasionally arise and get better and better looking. I could actually buy this, but I wouldn't pay over $16,000 for a copy. I It's just not worth the risk of scammers of eventually making identical fakes (and deflating/devaluing the market). I'm too paranoid to ever try and actually obtain the game. Anyone else like me in this regard? How much trust does the community put into WATA and VGA? Do most take them as 100% credible and ethical? It just seems like with rating and sealing cases closed, it'd a tad easier for them to take advantage (sealing CIB Cheetahmen II with a SMB3 cart inside) or be bribed. I do think it's AWESOME that we now have competition. I know I'm sounding like a worrywart, but I consider these actual concerns (IMO) in the distant future, if not now. Cheers and thanks for any helpful responses. Also, I was banned from NA (owner didn't care for me... feeling was mutual ). I never scammed or anything. I was merely a crass kid (this was roughly 10 years ago) who was too quick to be blunt. I've learned from my ways, as it's been quite some time. I'd like to think I've matured. I've dealt successfully with many legends (bronty, pat, etc.) in the past. I also have approximately $10,000 worth in retro games. I'd like to think I'm welcomed back and will be given a second chance. I was hyped to see this new site! IF I have done something irreversible in the past, feel free to ban me again and I'll avoid retro forums yet again. The most you'll find is me just acting immature. Edit: I'm curious. Does the idea of future fakes make anyone else less interested seeking a copy? It's the case for me, but I'm TAKING nothing away from those current owners. I'm hecka jealous of y'all! You have a right to be cautious and paranoid, particularly when we’re dealing with a ton of cash! Though I believe there is still a general misconception about the grading of games. Nowadays, like you are pointing out, there are an increasing numbers of fakes. The grading of games actually helps to deter these fake sellers, and useful for the casual collector not keen on opening up their carts and doing a thorough inspection. By having grading companies like VGA and WATA, it takes away most of the guessing regarding authenticity of the game in question. Are they ethical? Personally I’m saying yes, as there is a genuine consistency in their work. However, grading companies have their own flaws/mistakes/limitations and people need to understand to not expect perfection in their services. Is it right for you? Well my advice is try and see for yourself, ideally buy a few of the cheaper graded games or submit a few of your sealed games to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 52 minutes ago, GPX said: Still seems a ridiculously out of balance trade if supposedly the card is worth $160,000. Considering an NWC cart has never sold more than 100K previously. Even if an 8.0 is a relative high grade, why would it suddenly jump higher than the 100K value of the sealed Mario? What’s the real rationale of the trade as opposed to selling the card for around $150K and offering a decent cash for the NWC with some spare cash of around $50-75K? I see no rationale behind this, other than to artificially inflate the NWC market. As others have pointed out, there have been some large behind the scenes deals being made (but they're just that. Behind the scenes "secret" deals), but this is just insane. Seems odd that the COO of one of the largest vintage comic retailers on the planet would do such an unbalanced deal without merit. Maybe they know something that we don't. The problem with stuff like this is obvious. While it may not make the nwc grey instantly worth $150K, owners of the cart will certainly take notice of this deal. The next time somebody is in the market looking to purchase one, it will be much harder to shake a seller loose for any amount that isn't significantly higher than the last sold copy. And the steady climb after that with people trying to acquire one before they actually hit $100K+. I give it 5 years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,369 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 hours ago, 98ViperGTS said: I see no rationale behind this, other than to artificially inflate the NWC market. As others have pointed out, there have been some large behind the scenes deals being made (but they're just that. Behind the scenes "secret" deals), but this is just insane. Seems odd that the COO of one of the largest vintage comic retailers on the planet would do such an unbalanced deal without merit. Maybe they know something that we don't. The problem with stuff like this is obvious. While it may not make the nwc grey instantly worth $150K, owners of the cart will certainly take notice of this deal. The next time somebody is in the market looking to purchase one, it will be much harder to shake a seller loose for any amount that isn't significantly higher than the last sold copy. And the steady climb after that with people trying to acquire one before they actually hit $100K+. I give it 5 years It's also probable that there were additional side-deals within the main deal, and that the trade could have been misleading or not the full representation of what was the actual entire deal. For instance, there could be other smaller trades involved. Or perhaps doing extra favors that aren't easily quantified in money terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GPX said: It's also probable that there were additional side-deals within the main deal, and that the trade could have been misleading or not the full representation of what was the actual entire deal. For instance, there could be other smaller trades involved. Or perhaps doing extra favors that aren't easily quantified in money terms? Maybe. But I highly doubt it. Metropolis being such a huge vintage collectibles retailer, I'm guessing they're trying to manipulate the market. If anything deceitful went on behind the scenes, and it ever came to light, it wouldn't be good for them. I can't see that happening. I'm not sure if any of you remember when #273 was accidentally put up for sale at way below market value. It sold within minutes on eBay at a BIN of $13,500 in June. The buyer did end up paying the seller more money, but the amount was not made public. Knowing who the owner of #273 is/was, I don't think he would willingly allow any shady nonsense to go on behind the scenes, or be left out of that article. No doubt he was very happy to make the trade, based on what he paid for the cart. The highest grey that I'm aware of selling for, was $42K USD. How, or why, does a business take a $120K deficit on a trade like that? Makes no sense unless you're trying to manipulate the market. Right now it's the highest graded, but there are a few others that I have seen, equally as nice, that would for sure grade at an 8 or higher. Edited January 13, 2020 by 98ViperGTS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link | 2,709 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, GPX said: It's also probable that there were additional side-deals within the main deal, and that the trade could have been misleading or not the full representation of what was the actual entire deal. For instance, there could be other smaller trades involved. Or perhaps doing extra favors that aren't easily quantified in money terms? The article claims it was a “one-for-one” trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,369 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 11 hours ago, Link said: The article claims it was a “one-for-one” trade That’s the claim. That doesn’t really mean much though unless we see the official contracts between the exchange. For example, $150K as an immediate payment versus $150K payment in 3 monthly instalments over 10 years. Both give the same claim as being sold for $150K, but the full details if disclosed would make it much more meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, GPX said: That’s the claim. That doesn’t really mean much though unless we see the official contracts between the exchange. For example, $150K as an immediate payment versus $150K payment in 3 monthly instalments over 10 years. Both give the same claim as being sold for $150K, but the full details if disclosed would make it much more meaningful. Somebody could always reach out to Vincent to determine the exact parameters of the deal, so that we know exactly what happened. He's on Facebook. Not sure how the NWC owner would feel about being contacted, as the article didn't name him. Though most people know who bought that cart. It was made public on Nintendoage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, GPX said: I would also be curious to know what the sports card collectors think of this deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone3969 | 304 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I would have kept the Brady rookie, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/1100457025279016960?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2188031935558910226.ampproject.net%2F1912180046560%2Fframe.html Same card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 So I collect 90s cards, mostly Ripkens. PWCC and Probstein are the eBay cosignors and their auctions hit absurdity sometimes. The high end sport cards are extremely volatile, usually in a bubble after news (HOF, last game, death, etc.) That Brady card doesn't even look that rare, there's tons of them on the market. That means everyone wants to be a seller of it. Last public sale of PSA 10 was $135k and the consignor (PWCC, who is a whole nother story) states 1 of 3 PSA 10s they've sold. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Playoff-Contenders-Tom-Brady-ROOKIE-RC-AUTO-144-PSA-10-GEM-MINT-PWCC/352889265004 The PSA population on it (filter this to Brady) says pop of 157, 14 10s, 19 9s, etc. https://www.psacard.com/pop/football-cards/2000/playoff-contenders/43711 Based on your mobile twitter link above, it states a $400k sale in Feb 19 in BGS 9 Auto 10. Well you can buy a BGS 9.5 Auto 10 for $250k (OBO) right now. Pretty nice loss of $150k there. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-PLAYOFF-CONTENDERS-TOM-BRADY-ROOKIE-TICKET-BGS-9-5-10-HIGHEST-GRADED-EVER/174078412791 So, this card is clearly trending down and has a ways to go before the bubble is popped on it. Unless Brady dies today or something crazy then hype would go who knows where. But its clear that everyone wants to be a seller of it as there is no shortage coming to market, plenty on eBay. Likely because it probably experience an insane speculative bubble run recently. Pretty misleading an article would come out right now stating the $168k card value when last auction was clearly $135k and you can see what direction it is heading. Trades are hogwash when trying to prove a real value. It's all a shell game on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,649 Administrator · Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 And some people thought BuyAtari was nuts for paying 42k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said: And some people thought BuyAtari was nuts for paying 42k. Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart010 | 1,707 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) If it’s the only one available on eBay and someone who really wants one, has the cash and doesn’t know anyone in the inner circle... it could end up bought Edited January 14, 2020 by phart010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rareusgold | 1 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 7:46 AM, DarkTone said: MODERATOR BREAKER! How many NWC carts have been graded? Cant remember seeing any besides this one. There are a bunch now. I think dozens. With more then a few golds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rareusgold | 1 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 11:28 PM, Sign Collector Guy said: I think the 8.0 gray is the highest known. Not real sure but the highest grade in a gray will always command a hella premium. Just like comics and coins. condition and rarity etc push the values for those wanting to aquire. IMO The highest WATA Graded Grey NWC is a 9.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ViperGTS | 58 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Apparently Metropolis picked up Dain's collection; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,184 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 9 hours ago, jonebone said: The PSA population on it (filter this to Brady) says pop of 157, 14 10s, 19 9s, etc. Seems like a fair trade then, considering we're only up to 80 confirmed copies of NWC Grey and one more rumored to be floating out there (#0345)...I'm also sure there's a couple dozen still in secretive collector hands, and I have a hunch there are two fake NWC golds out there right now that used, now long gone, previously unknown NWC greys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,649 Administrator · Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, ThePhleo said: Seems like a fair trade then, considering we're only up to 80 confirmed copies of NWC Grey and one more rumored to be floating out there (#0345)...I'm also sure there's a couple dozen still in secretive collector hands, and I have a hunch there are two fake NWC golds out there right now that used, now long gone, previously unknown NWC greys. Nah, I think one was known. Would be interesting to see if all the complete shit label ones are still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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