I don't consider unlicensed carts as NES games. What do you think?

[Tulpa | 3,490]

38 minutes ago, MiamiSlice said:

Obviously if I say "Full North American licensed set" then you know exactly what I mean and there's no argument to be had. But my point is when some collector says "I completed the NES library" "I have all the NES games" etc, their intent doesn't include titles like 8-Bit Christmas or whatever.

That's the thing. Is their intent all the licensed games? Or all the retail games from 1985-1995?

Everyone has a different definition, so to say they've "completed the NES library" is always going to require clarification.

 

[Nintegageo | 582]

44 minutes ago, Link said:

Be that as it may, OP seems to be asking to change the common use, redefining North American unlicensed period games completely out of the largest category where most people include them.

I'm not trying to change crap haha.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

17 hours ago, Nintegageo said:

I'm not trying to change crap haha.

[Foochie776 | 1,051]

I have always wondered how we came up with a “full” unlicensed set being 91 games? I enjoy having the finite number but in all reality aren’t any of the non 677 licensed classified as unlicensed? 

 

I collect it all regardless of licensing but I’ve always been curious. 

[Nintegageo | 582]

29 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

I have always wondered how we came up with a “full” unlicensed set being 91 games? I enjoy having the finite number but in all reality aren’t any of the non 677 licensed classified as unlicensed? 

 

I collect it all regardless of licensing but I’ve always been curious. 

My understanding is that because it was sold in stores during the NES' relevancy, people decided to include them. But there may be other reasons? Not sure, thus the thread.

[Tanooki | 4,931]

It seems it's almost impossible to say anyone has a complete set because you can move the goal post to whatever is convenient or to act better than someone else holding X item(s) over their head to make some argument.  There's licensed, removed license(SE), unlicensed, homebrew, period piracy, etc.  It's maddening if you want to put that much thought into it.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Unlicensed NES Games are NOT NINTENDO GAMES.

They are games that work ON a Nintendo...but they are not Nintendo products.

...

Tell me, would you consider these (and the 50 others like it) as "NES Games"? There are custom NES roms and emulators INSIDE these things. But they are NOT NINTENDO PRODUCTS.

 

 

 

[Estil | 1,264]

Wait a sec; are you saying these really are "NES homebrew games" inside these devices?  So if you have the roms for these they'll totally work on a standard NES with the help of the Everdrive?  But I do totally understand what you mean, I for one always look for the Official Nintendo Seal of Quality.  As you can see here, with the Official Nintendo Seal of Quality, you can never go wrong.

[Tulpa | 3,490]

12 minutes ago, Estil said:

Wait a sec; are you saying these really are "NES homebrew games" inside these devices?  So if you have the roms for these they'll totally work on a standard NES with the help of the Everdrive?  

Yes, a lot of these use NES-on-a-chip, and so the games are NES ports. However, not all of the ROMs have been dumped, and some might use esoteric mappers that would need to be added to the Everdrive.

[fcgamer | 4,721]

Well like I said before, I looked for the seal too. So I bought videomation on NES.

Then my Taiwanese godson looked for that game and he found it in a legal , licensed format...but there was no seal. What gives? Oh wait, the seal literally was just for money.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Well like I said before, I looked for the seal too. So I bought videomation on NES.

Then my Taiwanese godson looked for that game and he found it in a legal , licensed format...but there was no seal. What gives? Oh wait, the seal literally was just for money.

You’re trying to tell me that Color A Dinosaur somehow has equal footing with Unlicensed trash like Tengen Tetris, Micro Machines, and Krazy Kreatures! Nonesense!!!

[Estil | 1,264]

Just now, ThePhleo said:

You’re trying to tell me that Color A Dinosaur somehow has equal footing with Unlicensed trash like Tengen Tetris, Micro Machines, and Krazy Kreatures! Nonesense!!!

No way, Color a Dinosaur has the Official Nintendo Seal of Quality.  Those other games don't have it, so you can't count on those other games to have as good workmanship, reliability, and certainly not as good entertainment value.    I mean don't you remember how Kevin in Home Alone wanted to be sure that his toothbrush was approved by the American Dental Association?  How pathetic he ended up being a criminal by stealing one that was not approved!  

[NESfiend | 1,515]

4 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

Unlicensed NES Games are NOT NINTENDO GAMES.

They are games that work ON a Nintendo...but they are not Nintendo products.

...

Tell me, would you consider these (and the 50 others like it) as "NES Games"? There are custom NES roms and emulators INSIDE these things. But they are NOT NINTENDO PRODUCTS.

 

 

 

Where can I get that Elmo's world thing for my kid? He would love that. 

On this topic, Nintendo age, and now this site, have always done "Can NA/VGA beat every NES game in the calendar year?" Unlicensed has always been included. It was just a different landscape as far as the licensing stuff went then and the history of that litigation and those games is a part of NES history.

 We all considered Tengen games and the like as NES games growing up. The new trend of them not being considered is purely the result of lots of people wanting to get a "full set," but using that technicality to make the full set more doable budget wise. Its crap. Call them what you want, but they are nes games. Custom and fan made games are entirely different. 

[Nintegageo | 582]

1 hour ago, NESfiend said:

The new trend of them not being considered is purely the result of lots of people wanting to get a "full set," but using that technicality to make the full set more doable budget wise. Its crap. Call them what you want, but they are nes games. Custom and fan made games are entirely different. 

Can you name other hobbies where unlicensed products are considered part o the set to own to the main collectors? I am genuinely curious about this.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

43 minutes ago, Nintegageo said:

Can you name other hobbies where unlicensed products are considered part o the set to own to the main collectors? I am genuinely curious about this.

I think comparing other hobbies is apples and oranges.

Tengen and Camerica Games and to a lesser degree Wisdom Tree, Color Dreams, and AVE were pretty ubiquitous in the early ‘90s.

Its the oddballs like Sachen, Bunch, Active, AGCI, Myriad, Panesian, and Racermate that make the Unlicensed library unpleasant to deal with.

Factor in the overall low quality of titles, inconsistent packaging, and inauthentic feel you have the perfect storm of something that you can easily burn out on.

I actually collect Unlicensed games. A lot! I even consider Sachen part of the set. Not only that, but I collect HES, Gluk, Codemasters, and Microgenius too, and I’m starting to dabble in Brazilian pirates and Hong Kong pirates. The thing is, I look at each of them as their OWN UNIQUE SET.

Tengen isn’t part of the “Unlicensed” library...it’s just the Tengen library. AVE has nothing to do with Camerica....Bunch/Wisdom Tree/Color Dreams are their own set too.

To be frank. If not for those dozen or so oddball titles, the Unlicensed library is pretty easy pickings. You’ve only got a handful of Color Dreams carts that’s hard, and maybe Rad Racket.

[Nintegageo | 582]

11 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

I think comparing other hobbies is apples and oranges.

To be frank. If not for those dozen or so oddball titles, the Unlicensed library is pretty easy pickings. You’ve only got a handful of Color Dreams carts that’s hard, and maybe Rad Racket.

I think it more as examples than a comparison. My point was - anything made without a company's consent means that product is not tied to them. NES games seem to be in a niche place this gets argued with any seriousness; whn it seems to be more based on nostalgia and maybe some people who have decided to pay money on these games. I do think your Tengen games, Wisdom Tree games etc is great.

And this thread isn't about me trying to rationalize a collection, because those games have no appeal to me. Heck, neither does Stadium Events, which is certainly a licensed game to own to complte the set.

[Tulpa | 3,490]

29 minutes ago, Nintegageo said:

My point was - anything made without a company's consent means that product is not tied to them. 

Tell that to all of the Atari 2600 collectors. They count everything that works on the console, pretty much.

[NESfiend | 1,515]

1 hour ago, Nintegageo said:

Can you name other hobbies where unlicensed products are considered part o the set to own to the main collectors? I am genuinely curious about this.

 

I don't have other hobbies, but I suspect that there aren't too many like situations where unlicensed products were sold in stores on the same shelf and completely intermingled in with the licensed titles. It was a unique situation and a legal point that was largely undecided for years. Those games were sold as Nintendo games, regardless of whether they had nintendo's consent, from 1984 to 1994 before the courts finally sided with Nintendo. To ignore that history and write them off is completely absurd. 

[Sumez | 2,934]

There's a pretty big difference between whether something is a "Nintendo game" or an "NES game". Nintendo is a company, and NES is a console. There are a lot of NES games that aren't Nintendo games, and a lot of Nintendo games that aren't NES games.

It's not subjective, it's not really rocket science either. It's really basic, and it has nothing to do with collecting. What you decide is "your set" is up to you to decide.

[Estil | 1,264]

21 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Tell that to all of the Atari 2600 collectors. They count everything that works on the console, pretty much.

That's because for the Atari 2600 it was a Wild West free for all sort of deal.  And all the more reason Nintendo did the whole licensing/lockout chip/only five games a year per company sorts of deals so there wouldn't be too many different games for the NES.

As for that Sudoku plug and play (I do in fact have the NES homebrew rom on my Everdrive and it is a neat little thing to be able to do Sudoku on your NES...though I'm more the Picross type)...but I thought the New York Times was famous for their crossword puzzles?  Or at least they were once upon a time...

Edited January 12, 2020 by Estil

[Link | 2,709]

1 hour ago, ThePhleo said:

I look at each of them as their OWN UNIQUE SET.

But are they NES games?

[Tulpa | 3,490]

21 minutes ago, Estil said:

That's because for the Atari 2600 it was a Wild West free for all sort of deal.  And all the more reason Nintendo did the whole licensing/lockout chip/only five games a year per company sorts of deals so there wouldn't be too many different games for the NES.

Too bad the lockout chip was useless.

[Estil | 1,264]

52 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Too bad the lockout chip was useless.

Not really...we didn't get another crash or another glut of too many games right?  The latter wouldn't come until the Wii!  

[Tulpa | 3,490]

9 minutes ago, Estil said:

Not really...we didn't get another crash or another glut of too many games right? 

But the chip didn't affect that. Unlicensed publishers got around it, and the chip was the reason for so many blinking light errors.

It was just a way for Nintendo to collect license fees. Besides, we missed out on a number of good games that were on Famicom that could have come here thanks to that asinine limit.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Tulpa

[Tanooki | 4,931]

2 hours ago, Nintegageo said:

I think it more as examples than a comparison. My point was - anything made without a company's consent means that product is not tied to them. NES games seem to be in a niche place this gets argued with any seriousness; whn it seems to be more based on nostalgia and maybe some people who have decided to pay money on these games. I do think your Tengen games, Wisdom Tree games etc is great.

And this thread isn't about me trying to rationalize a collection, because those games have no appeal to me. Heck, neither does Stadium Events, which is certainly a licensed game to own to complte the set.

I have to agree with you on the first part.  Nintendo licensed their products, those who didn't made unlicensed games that ran on the NES but they really weren't defacto NES games.  In a way they were like homebrew of the period to throw a wrench into this.  These companies wanted nothing to do with Nintendo but to make money off their good fortune, so they made games compatible with the system, but they were NOT NES games.  They were homebrew Nintendo games really as they did their own thing and made sure their thing ran on that hardware.  It's really no different than what people have been doing the last decade plus now other than being well after the system was dead.

I'm not rationalizing either I gave up giving a damn about even trying a decade ago, I'm about the old N64 owners credo of quality over quantity (IE: I keep what I play/care about most only.)  And SE, that's a debate onto itself as it was pulled from the market license pulled and all because Nintendo pulled the trigger and scooped it for the power pad accessory of theirs they borrowed and rebranded too.  Die hard collectors will argue it is, and why, because it's worth a crap ton of money and prestige, but in the end it's just well gray area, fuzzy, while there's zero doubt about world class track meet.  I'm sure that comment there will trigger someone.