Game Debate #218: Star Fox

[Reed Rothchild | 9,968]

[Reed Rothchild | 9,968]

Thoughts posted in my rankings

#120 - Star Fox
   
This game has not aged well.

Have I covered that “controversy” yet? I don’t mean about Star Fox specifically, but in regards to the general idea of games “aging.” That the general amount of fun that can be extracted from a video game, as time passes, can decrease faster for some games than others.

Evidently that’s a hot take on some corners of the internet. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Game X bursts onto the scene, sets the gaming world on fire, and then is incrementally improved upon by five million clones and successors. Then you take a look at it 25 years later, and the dated mechanics have left you with something that is much less playable than some of its peers. It happens.

Star Fox is one of those games.

When this originally came out, I’m not gonna say it set the gaming world on fire (it didn’t). But it was heralded as a pretty sweet addition to the SNES library. Killer polygonal graphics that, up to that point, had mostly been seen only in the PC scene. Relentless action, with constantly swarming enemies, and massive bosses. And even multiple pathways through the game, giving it a relatively high amount of replay value.

Of course, that was before stuff like Star Fox 64 existed. And that was before we got used to having actual textures on our polygons. And that was before we expected 3D games to run faster than 3 frames per second.

“But guy, the game always played like that, the code didn’t change! It is impossible for a game to literally age!”

Yeah, no shit. No one said it did. But it did figuratively age. Probably because nobody had the clairvoyance to play this thing back in 1993 while images of the future Star Fox 64 were dancing through their heads.

And I realize that that’s not super fair to Star Fox. I’m only supposed to be ranking every Super Nintendo game. Star Fox 64’s infinitely more refined gameplay shouldn’t be a factor in this writeup.

But it kinda is. Because I can’t play Star Fox in 2021, and have as much fun with it as I did once upon a time. I just can’t. It may not be totally fair, but that’s what the emphasis with this project is: how much fun are these games now. And Star Fox is fun. But not as fun as it once was.

Did I beat it?
Yes, but not all of the paths.

#120.1 - Star Fox 2
   
Star Fox 2 was of course one of the many cancelled titles on the system, one which was resurrected by Nintendo a few years ago, and released out of the blue, included on the Super Nintendo Classic console. Seeing as how I was already well into this writing project, I was left with a bit of a conundrum. Since SF2 could technically be considered an official licensed addition to the Super Nintendo library, how was I supposed to retroactively handle it? Did I ignore it? Did I try to find a spot for it in the rankings and then go back and shift everything above it back one space in order to accommodate it?

Or I could do this: Tack it onto the Star Fox review as something of a bonus game. No shift, no headache. It seemed like the path of least resistance so I went for it.

So I did play through it on my SNES Classic (once), which I felt like was enough to give a quick and dirty writeup. And my final thoughts are: it’s alright. Nothing super special. It clearly brought a bunch of new ideas to the table, many of which were used in Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Command (and possibly Star Fox Assault). But I wouldn’t say they were particularly well implemented here. The free range missions barely feel like a step up from Vortex, which was a terribly mediocre game, and the additional vehicles are honestly just not very fun to play with. At all. And even the tactical map, the mainstay of Star Fox Command, is not something I find to be very compelling in practice. Tedious if anything. Not that it isn’t a good idea, I just don’t think it was fully explored, or designed well.

But the core gameplay is still solid. Blasting shit is fun and winning dogfights is fun. It was of course all improved upon immensely with SF64, but it is interesting to see some of the ideas that worked so well there “prototyped” here.

I guess if push came to shove, and I had been forced to do a genuine ranking for it, Star Fox 2 probably would have been in the low 200s somewhere. Quite a bit higher than the similar Vortex, but still a far cry from the system’s best. Good, not great. And a step back from its predecessor.

Did I beat it?
Just once.

[RH | 5,237]

I only managed to play this game a few times on a kiosk or at a friends house as a kid. Yes, I was blown away by seeing polys on a SNES. I recall it being fun...ish but I didn't love it. It might have been better if it was faster, and I don't just mean the FPS. I guess they had to slow it down a bit because if the game was already running at a lower FPS, if you move too fast, that becomes obvious.

Regardless, it was novel and every time I boot it up, I enjoy playing through the first level just to experience things as they were back when the 100% novelty of playing a 3D polygonal game on a SNES could sell a game.

Star Fox 64, though. That game was a masterpiece on the N64. A rare case where the successor is far better than the original.

[Hammerfestus | 4,108]

I want this game to be better than it is which I guess is Star Fox 64 but even that’s underwhelming.

[DefaultGen | 5,727]

If I can't rate historic importance, can I rate historic irrelevance? Because there's obviously zero reason to play SF next to SF64. In a vacuum it's like 7/10, surprisingly playable despite the graphics, always impressive, cool bosses, maybe a little samey in the shooting. If you're alive beyond the year of our lord 1997, it's like 5/10.

[DarkTone | 1,017]

6

[NostalgicMachine | 333]

Star Fox = 9/10 SNES game.

FF IX!

[Webhead123 | 756]

I've always had a fondness for this game and that continues into the present day. Something about it still impresses me, even with the sub-par framerate. Sure, it has its hang-ups and limitations, but it still manages to be a game I'm happy to revisit regularly. I even simply love the subtle hints at world-building we get in the first two entries (Star Fox 2 was a very pleasant surprise, once the world finally got the chance to play it). It's simple stuff but it paints a picture of a pretty neat little sci-fi setting.

I've also always preferred the "gibberish" speech used for the characters in the SNES games over the voice acting in all the later entries. I'll be honest, Slippy's voice alone in Star Fox 64 makes me loathe to play it. That's a pretty shallow complaint to be sure but...I just hate how they made that character sound like a whiny little kid and not even remotely like a frog.

8/10

As for the Final Fantasy series, I've not played any past FFVII (and even then, I've only played the opening hour or two of VII), so...err...I guess my vote is for IX? 

Edited August 15 by Webhead123

[Tanooki | 5,142]

I gave it an 8, maybe it needed higher but whatever.

I got this when it came out.  I've enjoyed it ever since, the graphics even then felt simple against what my PC could do, didn't care, as the mechanics, design, controls were solid.  I felt it was almost like this origami art piece with how the ships and terrain were handled and it worked.  Never did I feel the game was slow, it just felt consistent and good.  The controls, mechanics, all of it back up a solid package and the sound/music really add to it as well.  The animal gibberish was fun with the sounds for the conversations, even then knowing it was a space concern I felt it added some unique alien lanuage depth to it.

But all said, it still in the end, even with paths was both shorter and also, a rail shooter, so I never felt it was like best of the pack from them, just on the higher end of it, so if we had half points I'd 8.5 this as it's not a 9.   I don't hold people in high regard in this era pissing how bad the game is, how so called slow it is, how barely watchable it is... more sheeple revisionism just like our DDP/SMB2 trolls we have here.

Star Fox 2, we ever going to do this one, or was reed right tacking that on?  I'd definitely give it a 7.5-8 range score.  It's not that it's a bad game, in most respects it is in a way an upgrade, but it's one where it could easily be a 5 or a 9 to someone because of HOW you play that.  Skewed names for difficulty make that clear normal is like training, rank 2 is more like medium, and rank 3 is hard...and hard is the full game considering how much of the game is utterly removed and cut away the easier you make it which is a real shame, just bad design on that.  If you experience the full game, the viruses, regenerated stuff, the most planets, interceptions, battleships, ground/tank combat and the rest you see where so much was lifted to SF64 as it works well, but if you play normal it's a 15-20min cake game/snoozer even.

[RH | 5,237]

1 hour ago, Webhead123 said:

I've always had a fondness for this game and that continues into the present day. Something about it still impresses me, even with the sub-par framerate. Sure, it has its hang-ups and limitations, but it still manages to be a game I'm happy to revisit regularly. I even simply love the subtle hints at world-building we get in the first two entries (Star Fox 2 was a very pleasant surprise, once the world finally got the chance to play it). It's simple stuff but it paints a picture of a pretty neat little sci-fi setting.

I've also always preferred the "gibberish" speech used for the characters in the SNES games over the voice acting in all the later entries. I'll be honest, Slippy's voice alone in Star Fox 64 makes me loathe to play it. That's a pretty shallow complaint to be sure but...I just hate how they made that character sound like a whiny little kid and not even remotely like a frog.

8/10

As for the Final Fantasy series, I've not played any past FFVII (and even then, I've only played the opening hour or two of VII), so...err...I guess my vote is for IX? 

Yeah, I rated Star Fox 64 a 9 on the past ranking post. I think it might be about an 8.5, and yes, it loses a .5-1.0 points just for "Slippy's hit!".

[Tulpa | 3,728]

I liked playing it, and it was kind of cool at the time. The commercials made it seem like it'd be a lot more mindblowing that it was, but I guess it's not alone in that regard.

[JamesRobot | 6,044]

I gotta say, StarFox is pretty killer.

StarFox really must be appreciated in the context of the Super Nintendo and other contemporary hardware.  In general, I'm a fan of the early 3D polygon aesthetic (the fewer polygons , the better!), as well as arcade style flight sims.  It may not be the best example of either, but it's a pretty fun shmup and there was nothing like it on home consoles of the era.  

I can understand that the novelty of it maybe played out, but if StarFox has aged poorly, then the Super Nintendo (and the entire 16bit gen) has aged poorly.  There's a degree of this for every generation, really. 

...Except the Nintendo of course.  

[NostalgicMachine | 333]

I went back and played this last evening for reference.

Honestly, the only thing that doesn't hold up are the visuals, but we've been making jokes about that since the early 00's.

This was mind-blowing back in 1993.

[mbd39 | 2,106]

8/10

I've always liked Star Fox on SNES. The one glaring technical issue when playing today is the low framerate, but at least it's consistent enough to be playable. The simple polygons still look great, IMO.  And some stage designs are spectacular such as when you fly into various spacecraft to destroy them from the inside.

 

[Gentlegamer | 228]

StarFox (and Super Mario Kart) marked the turning point in my life where I had "outgrown" kiddy Nintendo stuff, so I never cared about it.

StarFox - I wanted something like Afterburner or G-LOC

Super Mario Kart - I wanted something like F-Zero but with lazers and missles

[mbd39 | 2,106]

39 minutes ago, Gentlegamer said:

StarFox (and Super Mario Kart) marked the turning point in my life where I had "outgrown" kiddy Nintendo stuff, so I never cared about it.

StarFox - I wanted something like Afterburner or G-LOC

Super Mario Kart - I wanted something like F-Zero but with lazers and missles

Afterburner is flashier but Starfox is a much better game.

[T-Pac | 8,065]

I never thought I'd enjoy a rail-shooter until I played Star Fox. But the thing that really sold me was the graphics and sound. Some people say it's blocky and primitive, but that's what makes it appealing to me. Star Fox has STYLE - an excellent example of using design limitations to your advantage rather than being crippled by them.

Spoiler

 

[T-Pac]

[fox | 1,777]

:does a barrel roll:

[RH | 5,237]

8 minutes ago, fox said:

:does a barrel roll:

"Ok, Fox..."

[rdrunner | 445]

9/10 - Best Star Fox game, though I do also like 64 (except Slippy).  I've put countless hours into playing all three of the courses.  I really like course 3, where I once got the full 70,000 points, but it still beats me up when I'm out of practice.  Favorite stages from each course are Space Armada, Venom Highway, and Sector Z.

Also my 2 cents on game "aging": Keep an open mind.  You can enjoy any game if you really try.  I grew up on arcade Star Wars, Atari Frogger, and Zork text adventures.  All great games no matter how they look.

Edited August 17 by rdrunner

[Gentlegamer | 228]

On 8/16/2024 at 9:22 AM, mbd39 said:

Afterburner is flashier but Starfox is a much better game.

That may be but I wanted to be the Last Starfighter or Rick Hunter not a furry.

[TDIRunner | 2,922]

My only experience with this game when it first came out was with the demo kiosk at Target.  My family wen to Target every Friday and I would always stop by the kiosk.  I remember always being fascinated by the game, but obviously I never played it enough to really get into the game.  The game is certainly an interesting tech demo for it's time, but if you don't have the nostalgic factor for the game, I don't see much reason to play it today.  

[CMR | 545]

8/10

It's a great game that's still fun despite the technical limitations.  The only thing keeping it from a 9 is the frame rate.

[Astro Bot | 99]

10 out of 10. It's better than Starfox 64, though I love both games.

English voice overs are used in specific parts of the game for added effect like when Fox radios Corneria after you beat the final boss. This is in stark contrast to the endless talking in Starfox 64. Also, the voice overs don't sound as cheesy as the ones in Starfox 64. Outside of the English voice overs, you had the gibberish spoken between the team and it had a certain charm. I loved how they brought that back for the reveal of Fox and company being in Starlink: Battle for Atlas.  

Better soundtrack than Starfox 64. It was very dark, ominous, and really conveyed the feeling of an intergalactic war, especially that celebratory theme that plays at the end of the game that just makes you visual the pilots all receiving medals at a military ceremony. The person who composed the soundtrack retired after this game I think. 

I like that Starfox hinted at mysterious things in that galaxy, like the Out of this Dimension level or the blackhole level where Fox's father vanished. There was a sense of mystery in some parts of the game that isn't in Starfox 64.

It had a simpler, less annoying approach to scoring. Just kill everything in the level, which isn't even possible in some stages in Starfox 64 because that game throws such an absurd amount of enemies at you.

No stupid tank/submarine levels in the original Starfox. 

Starfox is a lean, focused game. Starfox 64 is bloated by comparison. Sometimes simpler is better. The original Starfox also has a slightly darker and mysterious vibe that was sadly missing from Starfox 64.   

 

 

[Astro Bot | 99]

Oh, and I voted for Final Fantasy 12 because FF 9 sucks.