Wata marking CIBs with mismatched parts with a big, fat IMP grade to designate the garbage they are

[DefaultGen | 5,397]

I might be slightly opinionated on this topic as noted in the title. As far as I know, Wata sends you an email if you send a game with incorrect components. @Archon 1981 got an email that his DKCC had the wrong back, and was given a chance to correct it before grading (this was before things got crazy, but I hope it's still the same now). So now if you say "No, just go ahead and grade that wrong pile of stuff" you get slapped with the big fat IMP you deserve, you dingus.

Edited November 21, 2019 by DefaultGen

[Gloves | 11,759]

Good.

[Br81zad | 628]

That's a great step in the right direction.

Might hurt their volume of submissions received (people will be more reluctant to throw mismatched junk into a box by the dozens), but this distinction will be greatly appreciated by the serious collectors out there.

[RH | 4,895]

So, 20 years from now, everything NOT marked like this will be an error.

Time to stock up on IMPs from WATA, boys!

[jonebone | 1,307]

Yeah, great change. Never in their wildest dreams did they think CIB Mario's would be 20k, thus making it ripe for IMPs to try and boost overall grade. This policy will deter any piecing together of incorrect parts and rightfully so.

[jonebone | 1,307]

27 minutes ago, RH said:

So, 20 years from now, everything NOT marked like this will be an error.

Time to stock up on IMPs from WATA, boys!

Not really. Take a PSA slab for example from cards, the slab has changed numerous times over the years. Holograms added, etc. You can date a piece by the holder and most holders change over time.

[RH | 4,895]

1 minute ago, jonebone said:

Not really. Take a PSA slab for example from cards, the slab has changed numerous times over the years. Holograms added, etc. You can date a piece by the holder and most holders change over time.

It was a bit of a joke.  The only people I imagine "stocking up" on these are those hoping to sell to newbs 5-10 years from now that may not know to look for the change on older, graded titles.

[Calan87 | 45]

super glad they're doing this. still don't like they grade CIBs but I guess this helps. 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

Awesome. Once again proves that WATA cares about the hobby.

For all the stuff people say is shady, it’s stuff like this that I like to look forward to seeing more of.

[Startyde | 175]

Excellent. Next up, get rid of CIB entirely

[MinusWorlds | 193]

Absolutely no reason to get rid of CIB. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. 

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

27 minutes ago, MinusWorlds said:

Absolutely no reason to get rid of CIB. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. 

Serious question for you or whoever has an opinion: What is the point of grading CIB items? Am I to believe that there are CIB collectors out there who would commit to all the time, effort, and cost it takes to get these items, yet still need someone else to verify the contents? Or are people just literally paying because they want to have their items wrapped in acrylic? Isn't the point of CIB collecting to be able to open the box, look at the inserts, and have the option to play the game?

Obviously there must be a market since Wata is offering the service and people are paying, but it feels like CIB grading is purely for resellers. I don't even trust that they have a comprehensive database to correctly verify the contents of the innumerable variants that exist for just the NES, much less other systems.

I'm over hear my scratching my head as to why any collector would support this.

Edited November 24, 2019 by DoctorEncore

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

29 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

Serious question for you or whoever has an opinion: What is the point of grading CIB items? Am I to believe that there are CIB collectors out there who would commit to all the time, effort, and cost it takes to get these items, yet still need someone else to verify the contents? Or are people just literally paying because they want to have their items wrapped in acrylic? Isn't the point of CIB collecting to be able to open the box, look at the inserts, and have the option to play the game?

Obviously there must be a market since Wata is offering the service and people are paying, but it feels like CIB grading is purely for resellers. I don't even trust that they have a comprehensive database to correctly verify the contents of the innumerable variants that exist for just the NES, much less other systems.

I'm over hear my scratching my head as to why any collector would support this.

I don’t understand why anyone would care? It’s not your game, why would you care if someone else wants to slab it and display it? I mean I have hundreds of CIBs that are basically purely for show not slabbed because I use an Everdrive, how is this any different? I’d guess most serious collectors with hundreds of games play like 1% of their games more than once every few years. What’s the difference if it’s slabbed or in a plastic box protector?

 

As for the IMP change, I agree with it, but they should make sure to announce new discoveries as grading occurs in order to give heads ups as to what’s now IMP and was not before. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by ExplodedHamster

[MinusWorlds | 193]

23 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

Serious question for you or whoever has an opinion: What is the point of grading CIB items? Am I to believe that there are CIB collectors out there who would commit to all the time, effort, and cost it takes to get these items, yet still need someone else to verify the contents? Or are people just literally paying because they want to have their items wrapped in acrylic? Isn't the point of CIB collecting to be able to open the box, look at the inserts, and have the option to play the game?

Obviously there must be a market since Wata is offering the service and people are paying, but it feels like CIB grading is purely for resellers. I don't even trust that they have a comprehensive database to correctly verify the contents of the innumerable variants that exist for just the NES, much less other systems.

I'm over hear my scratching my head as to why any collector would support this.

I don’t grade all my CIB’s, just the ones that mean the most to me. I like having them safe and preserved. I’ve had enough games to know when something is mint, the grade itself is just a bonus. For just about every graded CIB I have a cart counterpart to play.

The point of CIB collecting is whatever I want it to be for me and my collection. Just like I don’t care if other choose not to grade their games. 

Im not sure what you mean by all the time and effort. It takes no longer to collect CIB than it does sealed or cart. I look for the nicest copies and buy or trade what I want. I’m not building pyramids.  

I definitely don’t consider myself a reseller as I’ve only sold 3 Wata games this year and 1 was sealed. 

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

3 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

I don’t understand why anyone would care? It’s not your game, why would you care if someone else wants to slab it and display it? I mean I have hundreds of CIBs that are basically purely for show not slabbed because I use an Everdrive, how is this any different? I’d guess most serious collectors with hundreds of games play like 1% of their games more than once every few years. What’s the difference if it’s slabbed or in a plastic box protector?

In general, I dont care what people do as long as it doesn't negatively affect others, but I think grading CIBs drives prices up (particularly on the high end games). That raises the barrier for entry and pushes people out of the hobby and I think that sucks. By far the coolest thing about gaming is that it rose to prominence in the age of the internet where shared experiences have become the norm. And the difference between a slab and a plastic box protector is the ability to open one easily.

 

3 hours ago, MinusWorlds said:

Im not sure what you mean by all the time and effort. It takes no longer to collect CIB than it does sealed or cart. I look for the nicest copies and buy or trade what I want. I’m not building pyramids. 

Unless you have unlimited resources, I'd argue it takes quite a bit of effort to build a large, high-quality CIB collection. It takes a ton of research and attention to detail to make sure you've actually got all the pieces to a set (although that is the fun part, in my opinion). I've been working on it for a couple years and many others have been working on it for much, much longer. It's not like you can just walk into Best Buy and get every NES game ever made, much less the boxes and instructions and inserts. Even eBay has its limits.

In the end, you're both right about one thing; everyone should collect the way they like. But since this is a forum with a heavy emphasis on collecting, I just wanted to share my opinion on something that is very new and quite disruptive to our hobby.

So yeah, I think grading CIB is silly and drives the cost up for everyone.

[GPX | 1,369]

32 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

In general, I dont care what people do as long as it doesn't negatively affect others, but I think grading CIBs drives prices up (particularly on the high end games). That raises the barrier for entry and pushes people out of the hobby and I think that sucks. By far the coolest thing about gaming is that it rose to prominence in the age of the internet where shared experiences have become the norm. And the difference between a slab and a plastic box protector is the ability to open one easily.

 

Unless you have unlimited resources, I'd argue it takes quite a bit of effort to build a large, high-quality CIB collection. It takes a ton of research and attention to detail to make sure you've actually got all the pieces to a set (although that is the fun part, in my opinion). I've been working on it for a couple years and many others have been working on it for much, much longer. It's not like you can just walk into Best Buy and get every NES game ever made, much less the boxes and instructions and inserts. Even eBay has its limits.

In the end, you're both right about one thing; everyone should collect the way they like. But since this is a forum with a heavy emphasis on collecting, I just wanted to share my opinion on something that is very new and quite disruptive to our hobby.

So yeah, I think grading CIB is silly and drives the cost up for everyone.

Grading CIBs would essentially be the same principle as grading sealed games:

- authentication (for the condition and authenticity of the item)

AND

- saves collectors on potential time wastage; times where people buy “brand new, unsealed” or “mint in box” and only to receive a “crappier-than-described game” by seller deceit/incompetence in description.

—————————

The reselling part is then up to the consumers to smarten up on what to grade and what to sell for profit.

Regarding the new decision on IMP, about time! Why would anyone bother to buy a graded-IMP, when you can buy more cheaply a non-graded-CMP (correctly married parts)?!

[MinusWorlds | 193]

14 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

In general, I dont care what people do as long as it doesn't negatively affect others, but I think grading CIBs drives prices up (particularly on the high end games). That raises the barrier for entry and pushes people out of the hobby and I think that sucks. By far the coolest thing about gaming is that it rose to prominence in the age of the internet where shared experiences have become the norm. And the difference between a slab and a plastic box protector is the ability to open one easily.

 

Unless you have unlimited resources, I'd argue it takes quite a bit of effort to build a large, high-quality CIB collection. It takes a ton of research and attention to detail to make sure you've actually got all the pieces to a set (although that is the fun part, in my opinion). I've been working on it for a couple years and many others have been working on it for much, much longer. It's not like you can just walk into Best Buy and get every NES game ever made, much less the boxes and instructions and inserts. Even eBay has its limits.

In the end, you're both right about one thing; everyone should collect the way they like. But since this is a forum with a heavy emphasis on collecting, I just wanted to share my opinion on something that is very new and quite disruptive to our hobby.

So yeah, I think grading CIB is silly and drives the cost up for everyone.

I am one of the many others. I’ve been collecting CIB and sealed for almost 20 years. Maybe I have more resources than most in terms of relationships etc. but I can’t think of a single CIB I can’t get if I so choose. Maybe I like to preserve the work I did to find the pieces I have? 

You're entitled to your opinion and I couldn’t give two shits if you think it’s silly. I don’t collect for you. I collect for me. I’m sorry the way I choose to do it bothers you so much. Maybe if you spent less time caring and complaining about how myself and others do it, and more time on finding the pieces you need, you’d be happier? 
 

Or maybe I’ll just start a new crusade against a random group too. Hmmmmm. Let’s see. Oh I got it! All new collectors must go!! Anyone who’s started collecting in the last say 5 years has to exit the hobby. You’ve driven up prices and I won’t have it! Please leave your games at the door. 

Sounds kind of silly doesn’t it? 

Edited November 24, 2019 by MinusWorlds

[m308gunner | 352]

4 hours ago, MinusWorlds said:

I am one of the many others. I’ve been collecting CIB and sealed for almost 20 years. Maybe I have more resources than most in terms of relationships etc. but I can’t think of a single CIB I can’t get if I so choose. Maybe I like to preserve the work I did to find the pieces I have? 

You're entitled to your opinion and I couldn’t give two shits if you think it’s silly. I don’t collect for you. I collect for me. I’m sorry the way I choose to do it bothers you so much. Maybe if you spent less time caring and complaining about how myself and others do it, and more time on finding the pieces you need, you’d be happier? 
 

Or maybe I’ll just start a new crusade against a random group too. Hmmmmm. Let’s see. Oh I got it! All new collectors must go!! Anyone who’s started collecting in the last say 5 years has to exit the hobby. You’ve driven up prices and I won’t have it! Please leave your games at the door. 

Sounds kind of silly doesn’t it? 

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

5 hours ago, MinusWorlds said:

I am one of the many others. I’ve been collecting CIB and sealed for almost 20 years. Maybe I have more resources than most in terms of relationships etc. but I can’t think of a single CIB I can’t get if I so choose. Maybe I like to preserve the work I did to find the pieces I have? 

You're entitled to your opinion and I couldn’t give two shits if you think it’s silly. I don’t collect for you. I collect for me. I’m sorry the way I choose to do it bothers you so much. Maybe if you spent less time caring and complaining about how myself and others do it, and more time on finding the pieces you need, you’d be happier? 
 

Or maybe I’ll just start a new crusade against a random group too. Hmmmmm. Let’s see. Oh I got it! All new collectors must go!! Anyone who’s started collecting in the last say 5 years has to exit the hobby. You’ve driven up prices and I won’t have it! Please leave your games at the door. 

Sounds kind of silly doesn’t it? 

Dang dude, this isn't a personal attack on you. No need to get so passionate  I've said my piece.

You do you.

[MiamiSlice | 3,089]

On 11/23/2019 at 10:21 PM, DoctorEncore said:

it feels like CIB grading is purely for resellers

FTFY

I kid, I kid

[MiamiSlice | 3,089]

Minus, I like the idea of grading CIBs for the reasons you stated (preserving them, having a mark of authority on the quality of the piece, etc). I have to agree with the Doctor on one thing, though: collecting CIBs is not easy. There's so much mismatching out there, plus instances of fake box contents (they are getting harder to detect than fake carts themselves) and just general cases where an insert or something else is missing. At least with NES there's a lot of info on what was supposed to come in the box, and with other systems like PS1 / 2 it's quite simple since most games just came with a manual and nothing else, but for Nintendo stuff for say, Game Boy through DS, it's seriously hard. Even scrutinizing as best I could before buying, I've still had the experience multiple times where I buy something that is supposed to be COMPLETE in box and it either turns out it's not complete or some of the inserts / cover art are damaged. With sealed stuff, outside of the box getting crushed, at least you don't have to worry about anything else if the seal is authentic. With CIB stuff, man, it can be very frustrating. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by MiamiSlice

[MinusWorlds | 193]

12 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

Dang dude, this isn't a personal attack on you. No need to get so passionate  I've said my piece.

You do you.

I am doing me. Sorry for my outburst. Yes I am very passionate about this. Probably too passionate. I do apologize for coming at you. I can tell you are passionate too and I respect the hell out of that. 

10 hours ago, MiamiSlice said:

Minus, I like the idea of grading CIBs for the reasons you stated (preserving them, having a mark of authority on the quality of the piece, etc). I have to agree with the Doctor on one thing, though: collecting CIBs is not easy. There's so much mismatching out there, plus instances of fake box contents (they are getting harder to detect than fake carts themselves) and just general cases where an insert or something else is missing. At least with NES there's a lot of info on what was supposed to come in the box, and with other systems like PS1 / 2 it's quite simple since most games just came with a manual and nothing else, but for Nintendo stuff for say, Game Boy through DS, it's seriously hard. Even scrutinizing as best I could before buying, I've still had the experience multiple times where I buy something that is supposed to be COMPLETE in box and it either turns out it's not complete or some of the inserts / cover art are damaged. With sealed stuff, outside of the box getting crushed, at least you don't have to worry about anything else if the seal is authentic. With CIB stuff, man, it can be very frustrating. 

Yeah you guys are right. I concede the point. I get locked into the way it used to be. It is getting exceedingly difficult. Good luck to both of you in your searches. 

[austin532 | 467]

18 hours ago, MiamiSlice said:

With sealed stuff, outside of the box getting crushed, at least you don't have to worry about anything else if the seal is authentic. With CIB stuff, man, it can be very frustrating. 

This is pretty much the main reason why I open sealed games. For both archival reasons and having peace at mind knowing all of the inserts inside are correct.

[Startyde | 175]

6 hours ago, austin532 said:

This is pretty much the main reason why I open sealed games. For both archival reasons and having peace at mind knowing all of the inserts inside are correct.

Wouldn't you have the same satisfaction of knowing you had the right inserts if you kept it sealed? While not the same exact case, this pseudo scenario is the reason I hate CIB grading, because it encourages the destruction of sealed games if the owner thinks they can eek out a better CIB grade. They're basically reducing the amount sealed product, and helping erase history over a number.

It's the reason UKG and I believe even VGA have done away with loose figure grading, because people were destroying vintage carded figures with wear to get a better MINT loose grade.

[Alder | 243]

So are they grading based on game functionality as well? On one hand, I would hope so.. but on the other, that may scratch the pins.

Which leads me to question sealed game collecting and battery leakage. Is it possible for batteries inside of cartridges to corrode and ruin the game while still being sealed? I assume it would, but I've never seen it happen. Maybe in another 30 years? I'd rather have a pristine, protected CIB copy of a game with a replacement battery (or the battery removed) than a sealed copy that's eternally bricked. If I had to pick one to send into the future for the sake of preservation and archival, I'd pick CIB.