Long Term Storage and Batteries

[enix2093 | 8]

I've been collecting for 38 years and have a lot of old stuff that I do play here and there. Many of them are pretty pricey now, and I keep 90% of my games complete, but I do still play them
I'm going to be living in Japan for 5+ years and I don't plan on dragging my collection along with me.  My main concern is anything happening with leakage or whatever on my cartridges while I'm gone and won't be around to occasionally power them on or play them.  I have a lot of pricey stuff on NES, SNES, and Genesis and I'd hate to have this stuff get damaged if its as simple as spending $100 on batteries, and replace all of my old retro game cart save batteries (NES/SNES/Genesis) with new Panasonic coin cells.

As a collector, would you consider a game devalued if the save battery was replaced in preparation for long term storage?
Would it be more ideal to just remove all of the batteries for storage, then replace them when I get back?
Is this just stupid and paranoid and I should just leave them as-is?

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

I don't think replacing batteries devalues games at all, since I've never even heard a single person mention it until now.  Out of the 54-ish NES games that have batteries, I've changed out about half of mine, pretty much any time they dip below 3.0 volts, but some of the originals are still going strong after thirty-plus years!

Anyway, my advice to you is to just open up the ones you've got and test them with a multi-meter, and swap out any that are at 2.9v or below...

[enix2093 | 8]

Stupid technical question:  If there are no saves, do the batteries drain, or just simply age "on the shelf".  Like, would it do me any good to just delete saves for long term storage to extend the life or is that stupid?

[Memblers | 22]

They age over time, regardless of RAM contents.  What affects the drain rate the most is the individual RAM chip, and seems that Nintendo must have been pretty strict about their suppliers, because NES cart saves seem to have great longevity.

At my job I've repaired/refurbed quite a lot of lab equipment with CR2032s.  They are pretty stable, even on a valuable cart I wouldn't worry about it.  Out of.. 1000+? (stuff that had been in the field for 10-20 years, in a harsh environment).. I've seen only one that that leaked a little (no damage, just a little white stuff around the seam).

And some battery controller chips do have a "freshness seal", that only starts using/draining the battery after you've powered on the device on for the first time.  You won't see that in a game cart though.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Memblers

[Tyree_Cooper | 752]

Definitely lowers the value for me, if CIB in good condition and bought for collection.

I can just get a loose copy and snip snap a new battery or do my pimp projects on it safely.

Coin cell batteries will leak a very small amount and (so far) I've not seen it damage the board or shell of a Game Boy game, so I would just leave them all as is. I would expect if a battery "empties itself" fine in a Game Boy case, it will be the same with all other types of carts like NES or Mega Drive.

Last time a guy for some reason removed the battery from a rare Game Boy game I traded. Looks like shit now, even if I replace it it won't be the same, not an original game with pristine board anymore. Absolutely no reason to do that to a CIB game in my opinion.

[Brickman | 3,983]

Agree with Dr Morbis. Never heard of replacing the batteries devaluing the game. The only time I could see it been an issue is if it is a really bad replacement job with solder everywhere.

I’ve bought a few games with replacements and the job was very well done and didn’t cost any less or any more than what the going rate was for the game.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

It won’t devalue any more than a game that will not save, or has battery acid all over the PCB. 

[RH | 4,903]

 

The answer is a bit subjective.  IMHO, I look at games and consoles like you'd look at a cars.  What car nut wouldn't want to have a 100%, factory original, 100% complete Model-T?!  Well, as nice as that would be, certain components (like those made of rubber) degrade with time. The best you can do with something like that is make minimal replacements of what is required to not further damage the item, and if you really, really want to keep all of the original components, then you can set the parts you remove aside and maybe put them in tupperware so that as they degrade further, you still have all of the parts.

Games and cars may not be apples to apples, but the capacitors and batteries all have a finite life time.  Even if you have no intention of playing these games, with enough time, theoretically these components can leak and damage the board.  At that point, you have to ask is it worth modifying the unit to preserve as much as you can, for as long as you can, or do you let it naturally decay with time as to maintain originality as much as possible.  The perspective you choose is 100% up to you, the collector, and the same would be true for the Model-T.  There are some car collectors who are fine "letting the original parts rot", even if they do everything that can to slow that process down.  Others want their units to be as original as possible, while maintaining their vehicles in such a way that they will last as long as they possible can, with the minor trade off of upgrading degrading parts.  It's 100% up to the collector.

 

9 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I don't think replacing batteries devalues games at all, since I've never even heard a single person mention it until now.  Out of the 54-ish NES games that have batteries, I've changed out about half of mine, pretty much any time they dip below 3.0 volts, but some of the originals are still going strong after thirty-plus years!

Anyway, my advice to you is to just open up the ones you've got and test them with a multi-meter, and swap out any that are at 2.9v or below...

Interesting enough, one of my first questions on NA was about this.  I bought a Ball game from Club Nintendo, which came with the battery installed.  It was new/unopened (the sell shipped me the box it was shipped in from Nintendo, unopened) but the game comes with a battery installed in it.  From historical observation, I had seen what batteries can do to unopened/unused items because I have a couple of old Hess trucks that were given to me as a kid and the batteries leaked.  For long term value, I asked if it was better/wiser to open up the game, remove the battery and just make note of it in the future if I tried to sell it.

The general consensus was, yes, removing the battery would eventually make sense but not back then and that I had plenty of time before I had to make that decision.  That item is still in the original box.  I never took out the battery.  I imagine I might be fine for another decade since there is supposedly a pull-tab that keeps the unit from making an electrical connection, however, I've not looked in the box for years.... it might be due for an inspection and might even be time to remove the battery.

This is a sub-question.  We all know that with time AA and AAA tend to destroy electronics, some times in as little as 1 year.  Why doesn't this happen with these internal batteries?  Other than their shape, what's the difference?

[TDIRunner | 2,733]

48 minutes ago, RH said:

The best you can do with something like that is make minimal replacements of what is required to not further damage the item, and if you really, really want to keep all of the original components, then you can set the parts you remove aside and maybe put them in tupperware so that as they degrade further, you still have all of the parts.

 

I was watching a YouTube car channel that I follow and someone bought a 2000 Dodge Dakota 5.9 R/T with only 8k miles.  It was a pretty crazy find and obviously it was all original.  The original owner had added some aftermarket engine accessories, but kept all of the original parts in the box so they could be put back on if needed.  Despite the low miles, the tires needed to be replaced due to their age, but the new owner kept the original tires just in case for the same reasons above.  That truck eventually sold at Barret Jackson and it might be a museum piece now, in which case keeping those original tires would have been a great idea.  

To get back to video games, when I replaced my pin connector in my original NES, I made sure to keep it because I just couldn't bring myself to throw away that original part.  I now have a "Blinking Light Win" installed on my NES, but I still have all of my original parts so I could get my NES back to original if I ever want to.  I can't speak to the save batteries in any of my games, because I've never come across an cart with a save option that no longer works.  

Edited June 2, 2023 by TDIRunner

[Memblers | 22]

9 hours ago, RH said:

This is a sub-question.  We all know that with time AA and AAA tend to destroy electronics, some times in as little as 1 year.  Why doesn't this happen with these internal batteries?  Other than their shape, what's the difference?

The chemical reaction happening inside the AA releases hydrogen gas.  There is some material inside to absorbs it, but eventually there's too much gas, it gets vented out.. along with the other battery contents.

Whatever reaction is in the CR2032 seems to be a lot milder.  It only puts out a little current.  You can touch an LED directly to a lithium coin-cell and it will light up.  Do that with any other battery, if you don't add a resistor it becomes an SED (smoke emitting diode).

[Sumez | 2,941]

On 6/2/2023 at 6:46 AM, enix2093 said:

As a collector, would you consider a game devalued if the save battery was replaced in preparation for long term storage?

Don't really care about collector value as such, but why would you replace a battery "in preparation for long term storage"? In that context, just removing the old battery and putting in a new one once you decide to play the game in another 35 years (or sell it to someone who will) makes more sense to me.

Putting in a battery and then storing a game for years just seems like a waste of battery life. It's not a big deal though, as Memblers already said, 2032 batteries are fortunately some of the mildest batteries you can leave around in hardware. Compare spicy PSPs or corroded PGM boards.

[re4mat | 65]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:00 AM, RH said:

This is a sub-question.  We all know that with time AA and AAA tend to destroy electronics, some times in as little as 1 year.  Why doesn't this happen with these internal batteries?  Other than their shape, what's the difference?

@Memblers is correct: the main difference is in the chemistry. All batteries, regardless of chemistry, will self-discharge over time. The rate of self-discharge depends on the chemistry (including the construction and materials used) of the cell itself as well as other factors like temperature (generally speaking, higher temperatures increase self-discharge) and for rechargeable batteries the number of charging cycles it's gone through.

Alkaline batteries, like the normal non-rechargeable AA/AAA/etc. batteries you mentioned, most commonly use potassium hydroxide (KOH) as the electrolyte. Like Memblers said, the reactions that happen inside the battery produce hydrogen gas. Eventually the gas builds up so much that the pressure overcomes the structural integrity of the battery and creates a rupture. At that point, the KOH inside the battery leaks out. KOH is a strong base and is well known for its corrosive properties, but it also reacts with the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to form potassium carbonate (K2CO3) crystals, and that's the white powder you see if you've ever come across a leaked alkaline battery. K2CO3 is also corrosive, and the crystals will keep growing as the KOH keeps coming into contact with the CO2 from the atmosphere. And even more fun is the fact that the crystallisation will tend to follow along conductive lines, like the metal connectors in the battery compartment, the copper circuit traces on the PCB, the pins of the chips, and so on. But it'll also happily eat away at plastic, paper, etc. (Which is why it's a bit of a fool's errand to keep things sealed that include alkaline batteries in their packages, like the original Game Boy or the version of Skyward Sword for the Wii that came bundled with the gold Wii Remote, as eventually the batteries will leak and start destroying the contents of the box as well as the box itself.)

Those CRXXXX coin cells (like the CR2032 in NES cartridges or CR1616 batteries in GB cartridges) have a much lower rate of self-discharge, and so tend to last much longer. They're lithium metal batteries (typically lithium manganese dioxide) and their chemistry and construction makes for a much safer battery. For example, while they will also produce hydrogen gas from some of the reactions happening inside them, they don't produce enough to cause a pressurised condition. And even if there was a lot of gas produced they're built with safety release vents that are designed to prevent an explosive pressure build-up from occurring. Battery ruptures are not completely unheard of, but are usually due to external factors, such as high heat and/or humidity, damage (especially water damage) to the cell, or attempting to recharge the cell. (The old CRXXXX batteries used in NES/GB/etc. cartridges are not rechargeable.)

Then you also have the 1/2 AA (a.k.a. CR14250) lithium batteries like you find in old Macintosh computers, for example. These can have different chemistries depending on manufacturer. Some (mostly newer ones) are manufactured with lithium manganese dioxide and are generally pretty stable. Others I've seen are made with lithium thionyl chloride, and those I've seen leak or sometimes even explode and destroy PCBs. (Google "exploding maxell batteries" if you want to see some horror stories.)

And it's worth noting that those lithium batteries are not necessarily the same chemistry and definitely not the same construction as the lithium batteries you find in your phone, laptop, or in portables like the GBA SP or PSP. Those batteries swell with age as the gasses build up inside them, and its a good idea to keep an eye on them and replace them as needed before they wreak havoc on your devices.

(Interestingly, the GBA SP's OEM battery appears to be lithium manganese, but I've had two of them swell. Of course it could have been manganese oxide rather than dioxide — the label didn't specify — and anyway the cell construction is clearly different than the coin cells, and that makes a difference as well. I do wish battery manufacturers were required to print on the label exactly what the chemistry used by the cell is. "Lithium ion" is simply not specific enough.)

All that said, the self-discharging properties of all batteries mean that eventually those coin cells will no longer hold a charge, regardless of if they're kept in-circuit or out, and in order for the cartridges they're in to be able to function as intended will need to be replaced. Replacing them definitely doesn't affect the resale value of the games, as many retro game stores will even replace all batteries in games they sell as a matter of policy, and they still sell for the same price as they would if they had the original battery. Of course, if collectors started caring about original vs. replacement batteries, then that could very well change; but I personally don't really see that happening on a large enough scale to make a noticeable difference in the market.

Replacing passive components to maintain the functionality of electronic devices is nothing new. While the same debates of "should we keep the originals even if they're dead or replace them" have been going on for decades, for example, in antique radio collector circles (especially with regards to electrolytic capacitors) it's generally a well-accepted practice to replace dead components as needed, and doesn't tend to affect the value of the device in question. (Unless the job is done incredibly poorly, of course!) Especially where corrosives are concerned, it's much better to replace a component when needed rather than let it damage or destroy the device.

As far as the OP's question is concerned, if the storage conditions are good, then I wouldn't worry about those coin cells being kept in-circuit. They're unlikely to leak and your worst case is just finding that they've lost their charge over the years.

[enix2093 | 8]

I kinda took a left turn on this based on what someone said, and I opened everything up and tested the batteries and literally every single game was slightly over 3v with the exception of one that was reading 2.99v.  On top of that, it appears that all of my games are in immaculate condition internally as well, so I've shelved this idea.  Now I have 75 batteries I don't need (yet) lol.