Super Mario Bros press/demo release?

[spacepup | 2,404]

@wyansas

Unless I'm missing some great context here, it looks like you just asked for more information about a cart, and then were unfairly and baselessly accused of having nefarious intentions, without any obvious evidence supporting that.  I don't think that's particularly cool and we should not do that to others without having significant reason to do so.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

10 minutes ago, wyansas said:

You don't know that, and you also don't know that I knew it could be as expensive as you say it is.  Hard to fathom six figures.  We've interacted maybe once or twice on here before this, you don't know me at all.  So maybe just don't presume the worst next time.

I do know what I believe. Furthermore, the prototypes market, Mario's market, etc have skyrocketed in the West, even my parents are aware of some of the values. In the owner's country, not so much.

[a3quit4s | 4,096]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I do know what I believe. Furthermore, the prototypes market, Mario's market, etc have skyrocketed in the West, even my parents are aware of some of the values. In the owner's country, not so much.

It’s only exploded because code monkey keeps giving everyone gold bars as payment for MLB Baseball prototypes

[Gloves | 11,776]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I do know what I believe. Furthermore, the prototypes market, Mario's market, etc have skyrocketed in the West, even my parents are aware of some of the values. In the owner's country, not so much.

It's not your place to white knight for the poor unknowing people outside of the US, nor is it your place, nor is it allowed to go around making claims about the users of this forum, especially to imply that they are being in any way nefarious without cold hard proof of their having misbehaved in some fashion. 

The owner of the cart isn't some 5 year old incapable of doing any research themselves. You act like people in other countries are incapable of doing their own research or in general protecting their own personal interests, which is at best insulting.

Let the conversation end there. Thank you.

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

It's the public nature of it. It might seem backwards (surely operating publicly = transparency = good, right?), but when money gets involved people tend toward jealousy, and so more often than not talking about spending high amounts of money (thus having a LOT of expendable income) makes most people go "we get it bro, you're rich". 

Then you get people like Fcgamer who see "sending you a DM" and think "this guy is definitely gonna rip off the seller". You literally can't win. 

The key is to either not say anything at all publicly, or pick which of the above two groups you don't care about whining at you. 

That's not the reputation I want around here. I'll make the necessary changes, thanks for letting me know.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

I've been actively collecting NES games for 13 years and I've been a member on Nintendo Age since 2013.

I've been actively collecting Transformers for 14 years.

I've only spent 5 figures on a game once and didn't realise it appeared as bragging since I only really mentioned it in a context such as this. I won't mention it again.

All good bro, I know you are legit. My bad for misunderstanding your history

[fcgamer | 4,723]

@Gloves I'm not white knighting for anyone, I just gave a friend of mine a head's up, as anyone would. Being square with people is how I built my collection, and in closed regional communities, it's imperative to hold a good reputation as a population, otherwise said communities won't deal with anyone outsiders (think about how many Americans won't ship internationally full stop because of getting scammed by a guy in Zimbabwe with a parcel disappearing, for example).

I just wanted to clear that up, as per your request I won't say anything else.

Edited April 27, 2023 by fcgamer

[guitarzombie | 924]

1 hour ago, wyansas said:

Think those EPROM chips were made around Aug/Sept of 1990??

[Tanooki | 4,932]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

I hate to say it but I have to agree with both what @Gloves and @MrWunderful stated.

Other thoughts, the hobby has gotten to a point money wise where I personally don't feel right with what I'll call the "unintentional" low-ball, i.e. the collector is from a different region using a much poorer currency, in a region that hasn't developed to the point of the western market, so he or she doesn't even know to realize that a cart might be worth 4, 5, even 6 figures. Can't be ripped off if in your reality, this doesn't exist, right? Wrong.

So like the international version of a decade ago when you'd find a post on NA or other earlier forums where they'd giggle granny or mommy and daddy was selling this box of games for a dollar a piece, and oh look... Flintstones, Bonk, Rockin Kats, the usual third party and first party common popular stuff, and some gameshow etc drek.  But hey, that's all she wanted right?

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

Shenanigans.

Super Mario Bros. was released in the following European markets:

• Scandinavia = May 15 1987
• Germany = June 27 1990

It was released in other markets as well but these specifically use the NES-NROM-256-06 board pictured here. As you can see, the CHR chip on this board was manufactured in the 31st week (July 20) of 1990 and the PRG chip was manufactured in the 36th week (September 3) of 1990.

Both chips on this prototype were manufactured after the retail release of the same game using the same board in the same market.

I rescind my previous offer of purchase, I wouldn't touch this.

[Tyree_Cooper | 752]

that's why a pic of the board is worth 20 pages of blah blah

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

Read the thread.

Again, those horrible and despicable preservationists that devaluate prototypes daily but kindly warning out collectors to avoid ill, worthless, purchases. Those pricks!

Edited April 27, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[HogansAlley | 2]

The cartridge seems legit to me. Labels on both the front and the EPROMs are exactly as they should be.

Is it worth a whole lot? Absolutely not. These are just the usual European sample cartridges that you see being sold for pennies in comparison to "proper" prototypes. These cartridges have no differences and match 1:1 with the retail release. If you still think it's worth that kind of money, simply search sold listings online. First party European samples reach $500 tops.

You'd essentially be paying for a shell and paper label here, the PCB itself is pretty low valued considering it's a retail NROM PCB with EPROMs. Anyone familiar with the FamicomBox should also no doubt be aware that early revisions of the cartridges contained these very EPROMs with the same labels (they came in green, pink, and blue), datecode, and all. They were simply recycled. Notice in the photo of the sample the "SSS" product code was crossed out.

Attached below is a photo of an EPROM from the Super Mario Bros FamicomBox PCB for reference.

Before you say it, no, this doesn't necessarily mean it's a fake. This was common practice for Nintendo to do on these types of cartridges for both NES, SNES, and even Game Boy.

In short, don't believe something is worth 10 billion dollars because some random guy on the internet told you

Happy collecting.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by HogansAlley

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Alright, I just want to first off offer up an apology to both @wyansas and @Code Monkey ; I may have gone off the deep end a bit, but as with all things of this nature, there are layers of backstories and information not publicly available, with even the owner telling me that he wanted to hold onto the game for now as opposed to selling it. Sadly we live in a world where people are quick to try to prey on others (I personally had this happen twice here at VGS with VGS members), so I was just trying to help out a friend. I'm not going to talk more on this point, but just letting both of you know that I am sorry for jumping to conclusions on your intentions.

Regarding value, if the owner of the cartridge does decide to sell the cartridge at some point, I'd personally be willing to pay more than $500 or whatever that one of the other posters suggested as the value for first party European samples. This one is Mario, I personally believe it has more value, and although I am not in the position to be offering 30K for it, for example, I would be willing to pay more than that suggested "going rate". In the end though, if I were the owner and wanted to sell, I'd throw it on ebay or someplace and wait to see what the highest offer is, as a significant game as Super Mario Bros. is hard to put a price on, in this sort of item, even if it is byte for byte identical with the original game.   

[HogansAlley | 2]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Regarding value, if the owner of the cartridge does decide to sell the cartridge at some point, I'd personally be willing to pay more than $500 or whatever that one of the other posters suggested as the value for first party European samples. This one is Mario, I personally believe it has more value, and although I am not in the position to be offering 30K for it, for example, I would be willing to pay more than that suggested "going rate". In the end though, if I were the owner and wanted to sell, I'd throw it on ebay or someplace and wait to see what the highest offer is, as a significant game as Super Mario Bros. is hard to put a price on, in this sort of item, even if it is byte for byte identical with the original game.   

There's been a few European samples of Mario & Yoshi that have sat around for $350 on various sites just last year and there was an SNES Kirby NOE sample that sold around the same price. Granted they're obviously not as popular or influential as Super Mario Bros, but even though they're first party, the majority of prototype collectors only care and spend big if it has differences.

If you take a look at the Super Mario Bros. 3 prototype for example (byte for byte identical as retail) that sold on Heritage Auctions in 2020 for a total of $31,200. It was probably bought by someone who had no clue what the market for this stuff looks like, because it was resold one year later at an almost 50% loss.

Still way higher than what it's worth, but it's much higher valued than the sample here for a simple reason: It's a true prototype that was from when the game was going through it's localization, not just some sample cart that was sent to a magazine or something similar. This cartridge, like all the other similar ones, are not a 1 of 1. It will just be a matter of time before another one is discovered and it destroys any "extra" value it supposedly has.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

51 minutes ago, HogansAlley said:

There's been a few European samples of Mario & Yoshi that have sat around for $350 on various sites just last year and there was an SNES Kirby NOE sample that sold around the same price. Granted they're obviously not as popular or influential as Super Mario Bros, but even though they're first party, the majority of prototype collectors only care and spend big if it has differences.

If you take a look at the Super Mario Bros. 3 prototype for example (byte for byte identical as retail) that sold on Heritage Auctions in 2020 for a total of $31,200. It was probably bought by someone who had no clue what the market for this stuff looks like, because it was resold one year later at an almost 50% loss.

Still way higher than what it's worth, but it's much higher valued than the sample here for a simple reason: It's a true prototype that was from when the game was going through it's localization, not just some sample cart that was sent to a magazine or something similar. This cartridge, like all the other similar ones, are not a 1 of 1. It will just be a matter of time before another one is discovered and it destroys any "extra" value it supposedly has.

You can have your opinion and thoughts, I can have mine. Luckily for all of us the owner stated that he had wanted to hold onto the cartridge for now, so it all becomes some sort of debate solely for the sake of debating, for the moment. 

You and I do agree on one thing though, this would definitely have much more appeal than Mario & Yoshi or SNES Kirby.

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Calling bs on the monkey here.  Who said it was a prototype?  It was shown off as a demo/press(media) copy and that still fits it even now with the inside shown off to the page here finally.

Given the 1990 date for for Germany if anything this makes it more clear likely where this was put out as a test copy.  Bergsala was basically NIntendo of Europe in a defacto way in the day, that's a pretty big known, go look it up including their insane offices with Mario and pipes there, the works.  BUT, Nintendo of Europe was founded in Germany June 1990.

Given the fuzzy (sketchy) nature of PAL NES releases by the country in those days, it almost needs to be figured out by dating on those Nintendo chips and the rest WHERE it was demo'd.

According to (hope it's not wrong) Swedish NES LIst I found in a text file, the game was put out by Bergsala  May 15, 1987 (source: http://omolini.steptail.com/nes/nes-scn-list.txt ) which lined up with Monkey.  And NOE was born in 1990 which pushes it right into the dates even closer on the chips.

So would this have been something from Bergsala since they were grounded as the go-to up until Germany got NOE in June 1990?

I don't think we'll ever know how it got from one of those 5 countries down to South Africa, but it could be tied to either Bergsala or the freshly minted NOE and perhaps that's even more likely given the 1990 date.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Tanooki

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

Yet another person talking without knowledge. There were many companies involved in distributing the NES in Europe. Bergsala only had the rights to some Scandinavian countries. Bienengräber had Germany, Stadlbauer in Austria, Waldmeier in Switzerland, ASD then Bandai in France, the list goes on.

On that topic, I think no collector has ever managed to complete a PAL set from one of these more obscure distributor, e.g the Austrian one.

Edited April 27, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[fcgamer | 4,723]

43 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

Yet another person talking without knowledge.

Are you speaking into a mirror when uttering this phrase? I don't mean any offense and absolutely no disrespect from what I said, so I apologize in advance if I do accidently offend you, but I'd highly recommend toning the arrogance down a bit. Talking without knowledge?

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Newb is trying to stake a position, it's fine.  I didn't even touch on what he said trying to derail things and that's fine.  I just picked Bergsala which he just confirmed what i said controlled a few countries, then I jumped to NOEs founding without touching the rest.  That doesn't make me wrong, just that I didn't want to go into a TLDR moment.  Golf clap all around.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

ask @MrMark0673

[wyansas | 131]

12 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Alright, I just want to first off offer up an apology to both @wyansas and @Code Monkey ; I may have gone off the deep end a bit, but as with all things of this nature, there are layers of backstories and information not publicly available, with even the owner telling me that he wanted to hold onto the game for now as opposed to selling it. Sadly we live in a world where people are quick to try to prey on others (I personally had this happen twice here at VGS with VGS members), so I was just trying to help out a friend. I'm not going to talk more on this point, but just letting both of you know that I am sorry for jumping to conclusions on your intentions.

Regarding value, if the owner of the cartridge does decide to sell the cartridge at some point, I'd personally be willing to pay more than $500 or whatever that one of the other posters suggested as the value for first party European samples. This one is Mario, I personally believe it has more value, and although I am not in the position to be offering 30K for it, for example, I would be willing to pay more than that suggested "going rate". In the end though, if I were the owner and wanted to sell, I'd throw it on ebay or someplace and wait to see what the highest offer is, as a significant game as Super Mario Bros. is hard to put a price on, in this sort of item, even if it is byte for byte identical with the original game.   

Thank you, apology accepted, but I would also appreciate if you cleared my name with the owner, if you did implicate me in any way to them.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

4 hours ago, wyansas said:

Thank you, apology accepted, but I would also appreciate if you cleared my name with the owner, if you did implicate me in any way to them.

Sure. The owner said he doesn't want to sell though, so I hope that can be respected.

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

17 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Are you speaking into a mirror when uttering this phrase? I don't mean any offense and absolutely no disrespect from what I said, so I apologize in advance if I do accidently offend you, but I'd highly recommend toning the arrogance down a bit. Talking without knowledge?

There are a lot of wrongs in Tanooki's post, like it or not. Bergsala has never been the "go-to", nor "Nintendo of Europe". Blatant generalizations are never okay, are they?

So keep the mirror to yourself, thanks.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

41 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

There are a lot of wrongs in Tanooki's post, like it or not. Bergsala has never been the "go-to", nor "Nintendo of Europe". Blatant generalizations are never okay, are they?

So keep the mirror to yourself, thanks.

If I forgot to welcome you to the site then I guess I'll do so now, "Welcome brother Deteriorating Brains." 

If we were in person, I'd give you a warm round of applause and buy you a beer too.