WATA's going on here?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Just now, doner24 said:

Again, not breaking any rules. But the constant negativity is tiring and that opinion is sooooo elitist  

Again, constant negativity? Maybe you should look at my post history. Lots of great and positive contributions in many threads regarding a number of topics. If some digs at grading and some political debate (which i haven't really engaging in here in a long time) is constant negativity then I guess you are right. Great job, proud of you. You did a good mod.

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

5 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

IS WATA unbiased though? Don't they get more money if the grade is higher? Or does it only have to do with the actual value of the game, not the grade? That's never been clear to me.

They're supposed to be. The $$ they receive from game submissions is fixed, regardless of grade (just based on game value before grading and grading speed).

That being said, when they were working with Heritage Auctions a little more closely, they might have benefited from higher grades. 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

22 minutes ago, doner24 said:

Yeah, just you 3, I wasn’t part of the start of VGS either (checks old URL’s that I purchased to block in case we wanted them). Either way, I’m done arguing with you, I’ll just continue to respond to the PM’s and mod-pages I get about you and your posting.  

Crazy how that was never discussed lol.  My bad, didnt know you were that involved.
 

 And when you are responding to the “mod pages” about my posting that dont break any rules, give those whinny little snitches a kiss for me

[spacepup | 2,404]

I want to address something that has come up a few places or has been loosely referenced.

When I ask people to be more respectful of each other, or less snarky, sometimes I get comments like "what rule did I break?"  Well, occasionally, I'm sharing my pleas with the community just to be a bit more respectful (maybe even somewhat kind and patient?) with each other.  I'm not always addressing a situation defining a specific problem where I think someone broke a rule.

Sometimes when I mention things like sarcasm and snarkiness, I'm not issuing an edict as an admin, but asking as a fellow community member, if we can treat others with more maturity and respect.  Yet sometimes, all it takes is for one party to stoop low, and others follow suit - "well, if he did it, so can I."  I just want us to be better!  I want people to see mature conversations and even disagreements, but I feel like sometimes we can do it with less targeted personal jabs and sarcasm.  I'm not expecting, or asking for, perfection.  I just want people to try.  Just try to have civil discourse whenever possible.  Try not to go *looking* for fights and riling people up intentionally, etc etc.

As it relates to the topic of WATA and grading -- Not only are debate, criticism, and dissenting opinions for topics allowed here, but they are encouraged and important in fostering a complex and mature community!  All it takes is a look through several of the MANY threads about WATA and grading, to see that we *clearly* do not overly defend the company or practice - we allow PLENTY of critiques, criticisms, disagreements with them all the time.  I think broadly speaking, the mods don't intervene too much and we really do try to stay out of things for the most part.  Is moderation always immaculately balanced, fairly treating every single situation with absolute perfection? Absolutely not.  But we are trying.

Maybe some people think I'm just playing a PR role here - but I sincerely care about this community - more than most people might imagine.  I want us to be the best we can be.  I want us to be a place where people don't roll their eyes at a bunch of threads and block them for getting nasty.

And for the most part, the community here is great and we don't have very many issues.  This post is not an assessment or review of broadly horrible behavior or anything.  I'm very happy with what VGS is and how most people interact with each other. But sometimes it doesn't hurt to type out a post, and think for just a few moments before posting -- could this be less targeted? Less personal or snarky? Sometimes a little restraint goes a long way.

If you read down this far, thank you.  I genuinely appreciate it and your consideration.  

 

 

[mlbfan10 | 340]

3 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

People use them because it makes them money lol.

What's wrong with making money? Making money ≠ being greedy and there is absolutely nothing wrong turning a profit or selling to fund your collection with video games sealed, graded, cib, cart. Also I'm not trying to be snarky just curious.

Edited March 2, 2023 by mlbfan10

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

6 minutes ago, mlbfan10 said:

What's wrong with making money? Making money ≠ being greedy and there is absolutely nothing wrong turning a profit or selling to fund your collection with video games sealed, graded, cib, cart.

There's nothing wrong with it, it's just... don't pretend it's something else then. If your purpose is making money don't pretend it's about a love of the hobby. I won't speak for Mr. W but when I criticize these folks its not the ones flipping to fund their collection, its the ones pumping and dumping to make a buck at the real hobbyists expense.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

11 minutes ago, mlbfan10 said:

What's wrong with making money? Making money ≠ being greedy and there is absolutely nothing wrong turning a profit or selling to fund your collection with video games sealed, graded, cib, cart. Also I'm not trying to be snarky just curious.

Nothing, I never said it was bad for the collector. I sell things for far more then I bought them for, often. Its capitalism, and part of being an actual collector. We all get games because someone sold them to us, usually at a true or perceived profit.

 

IMO, grading “routine mistakes” shouldnt be allowed when talking hundreds of thousands of dollars based on subjective opinions, sorry. I didnt think that was a high standard, but I guess it is. 

Graded game auctions isnt the standard consumer market. Shady people have the ability to rip others off, and I am highly critical of that, because I was one of those guys collecting games before blah blah blah

 

12 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

There's nothing wrong with it, it's just... don't pretend it's something else then. If your purpose is making money don't pretend it's about a love of the hobby. I won't speak for Mr. W but when I criticize these folks its not the ones flipping to fund their collection, its the ones pumping and dumping to make a buck at the real hobbyists expense.

You would be correct. 
 

 

Everyone else: Dont worry, Im ending my responses to this specific response chain 
 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, spacepup said:

Well, occasionally, I'm sharing my pleas with the community just to be a bit more respectful (maybe even somewhat kind and patient?) with each other.

A site mod called me out by name (without tagging me by the way, real sneaky) in the middle of an argument I wasn't even participating in for "constant negativity". That's absolutely false. I mean I could mention the threads I've started or participated in, my blog posts, the fact that I've won the day here before, the transactions I've engaged in with other users, etc, I can go on and on. Most of you don't know me in real life but I am a pretty positive mental attitude kind of person.  You could see that reflected on my Instagram as well.

Sure I called out some blatant sexism and racism I've seen here in the past. Frankly I think the mods could have done more. There's a few users I know who've stopped coming here due to that. I'd like to see stricter action when that stuff rears up, not when someone digs at WATA.

And I happen to like snark and sarcasm. I'm entertained by it. That doesn't make me constantly negative or a bad person. 

Respect goes both ways. Or maybe here it doesn't. I'd like to think it does and that's the goal here. 

 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Wait a second… you guys don’t lowball the value of your submissions so you can save money on shipping? I’ve been doing that forever!

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

@CodysGameRoomif you see sexist or racist post I hope you report that.  Don't assume a mod is reading everything posted.  I think its important that community members also step up and help set a good standard for what is acceptable conduct on this forum.  What flies on other parts of the internet isn't acceptable here.  I know the mods don't like to rule with iron fist but rather try and let the community/members self regulate their actions.  And I agree with that mindset because there are grey zones of members not blatantly breaking the rules but are a serious concern if they are setting example of what bad behavior is OK to do for other members.  We aren't trying to make a utopian community here.  But I don't think it's the end of the world if a mod steps in to encourage better behavior.  Especially if it's a private discussion.  Other times it's important to make a public post to help everyone reading a thread to know what is not wanted behavior.

I know I've had some one on one discussions when I first came to VGS and was playing full tilt (a persona I do and not reflecting who I really am) in werewolf.  So don't think I haven't had someone talk to me and encourage me to be a better member too due to my actions impacting other members.  I appreciated being told that people were taking things serious though I tried to make it clear its just a persona I play.  I really enjoy playing an arrogant asshole in werewolf.  But that doesn't mean I couldn't tone things done and still enjoy the game while allowing other also could enjoy the game too.  

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

1 hour ago, mlbfan10 said:

What's wrong with making money? Making money ≠ being greedy and there is absolutely nothing wrong turning a profit or selling to fund your collection with video games sealed, graded, cib, cart. Also I'm not trying to be snarky just curious.

who made money ? the only people i heard made money were also pushing the ads or associated with the grading companies

[spacepup | 2,404]

@CodysGameRoom To clarify so there isn’t confusion.  My comments are more generalized about the discussions regarding site rules and admins / mods interacting with members.

I have no issues with people criticizing WATA or grading in general - neither of which I have any connection to myself.

I saw a few comments about “NA elitism” but I can assure you that VGS is not here to protect WATA or people’s financial interests, or “big” collectors who grade games.  

As for modding - it is a balance and there is always room for improvement - something I reflect on often and we discuss.  If anyone sees examples in the future of sexism / racism / hateful behavior, please do report immediately.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

17 minutes ago, FireHazard51 said:

I know I've had some one on one discussions when I first came to VGS and was playing full tilt (a persona I do and not reflecting who I really am) in werewolf.  So don't think I haven't had someone talk to me and encourage me to be a better member too due to my actions impacting other members.

I said it with "snark" earlier (please forgive me) but I was also going hard when I first joined here. I just checked the date on my warnings from Captain Morgan Drinker and they were from January 14,2020. Over 3 years ago. I like to think I've played nice since then. 

7 minutes ago, spacepup said:

As for modding - it is a balance and there is always room for improvement - something I reflect on often and we discuss.  If anyone sees examples in the future of sexism / racism / hateful behavior, please do report immediately.

Appreciate it. Always have done so and will continue to if I see it.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:34 PM, Link said:

I wouldnt blame the individual people doing the grading, just the company as an entity. By whatever reason things fall through the cracks. It is interesting to hear what goes on though. Thanks for your acquaintance's story.

I'm not familiar with what Sotheby's-level detail would mean, but when stakes are high I would want attention to detail and not ratings that are clearly inaccurate. Fortunately I'm not interested in grading or putting that kind of money into this, so my opinion is immaterial anyway  

You are welcome. But to be frank, graders are not allowed to overlook anything. They are limited to soft grading when the quota compromises their ability to determine if the item is a 9.6 or a 9.8. Stuff like cracks in the case and tears in the wrap cannot be overlooked by the grader. Which tends to mean that it was mishandled by a different department.

Which also has me blame those who force graders to compromise to that point in their careers. As well as those who act like experts over things they never study. Because a grading company does not charge a large sum for the grading process. And yet, those who grade get flak for any mistakes the other departments make.

Which is why I brought up the action house Sotheby's, as they do not have such clientele. Instead they have the ability to grade an item "1-10" with added notes on any irregularities found on non-graded items. And probably do just that if they were a grading company. Simply because they would be a "under the radar" company.

Just like CAS... Which I am not going to use again. For reasons tied to the fabrication department and not the graders. 

[GPX | 1,369]

I feel like I could write a whole thesis on why I enjoy owning graded games and the pros and cons associated with them. 
BUT…I won’t bore you guys with such intricate details of my inner subconsciousness. 

Relating to this topic, it does agitate me to see a game not deserved of a high seal grade yet get a near perfect score. As I feel this impacts on the sealed collecting hobby as a whole, and not just for graded games. This isn’t something that can be simplified as “grading companies are subjective, it happens!” There is something more to it than that, and either way, it’s not a good look for the hobby. But by the same token, if this kind of shonkiness happens more, then I would think the demand for WATA’s service would likely be affected in the long run. I don’t think there are too many consumers who are blind, dumb and able to spend millions of dollars on gamez.

[GPX | 1,369]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:57 AM, inasuma said:

This is really important. I'm in the "minority" of grading hobbyists who genuinely try to collect and while I like Wata in some areas, there's no reason to ignore the bad parts. How else do these companies improve if they aren't hearing our feedback? That's different vs speculators obviously who likely prefer silencing the negativity to boost profits.

I would argue with you and say you’re actually in the majority of grading hobbyists. It’s just that the current market hyping/manipulating minority are loud mouths and making it appear they represent the sealed/graded collecting community. Personally I feel there is a gross misrepresentation online (particularly on YouTube) of what sealed/graded collectors are all about.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

Dunno if it's been covered yet, but what percentage of the total graded games are these error ones?   

We aren't hearing about all of the ones that seem to have been graded "fairly", so it's harder to get a grip on how widespread this is.   I doubt it's 25% though.

[a3quit4s | 4,096]

I feel like I need to buy a graded game or have one graded so I can be in the cool kid club

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

1 minute ago, a3quit4s said:

I feel like I need to buy a graded game or have one graded so I can be in the cool kid club

it has to be graded to be in the cool club

 

notice no one has posted in 'sealed games show them off' since October . not cool.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

5 minutes ago, CIB_Wholesale_no_split said:

it has to be graded to be in the cool club

 

notice no one has posted in 'sealed games show them off' since October . not cool.

That’s because sealed games are rare.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

18 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Dunno if it's been covered yet, but what percentage of the total graded games are these error ones?   

We aren't hearing about all of the ones that seem to have been graded "fairly", so it's harder to get a grip on how widespread this is.   I doubt it's 25% though.

To be fair I think most of my games received fair grades and were what I expected with the exception of one which I think should’ve been a point higher.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

10 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

That’s because sealed games are rare.

yeah on ebay they can sometimes get up to TEN thousand dollars without shills or anything

crazy.....

 

https://www.antiquetrader.com/collectibles/collecting-video-games

 

 

this aged well

Edited March 2, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale_no_split

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Dunno if it's been covered yet, but what percentage of the total graded games are these error ones?   

We aren't hearing about all of the ones that seem to have been graded "fairly", so it's harder to get a grip on how widespread this is.   I doubt it's 25% though.

I highly doubt they are going to come out and give us a qty of mistakes they made. We only have the ones that get blasted online. 
 

I would wager when non-social media folks contact them directly, they fix any screw ups quietly and discretely.  I still believe its 1% or less (hopefully)

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

33 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I highly doubt they are going to come out and give us a qty of mistakes they made. We only have the ones that get blasted online.

For the most part, I highly doubt they're going to know the quantity of mistakes they've made (at least until after the games have made it into the wild), as the people making them are most likely not noticing or are deliberately keeping their mouths shut and just pushing "product" out the door.  The ones that get blasted online are the end users noticing and subsequently putting the grading company on notice.  To date, I don't know that I've ever seen any response(s) from a grading company after such an issue was reported save the ultimate "fallout" over the fake Rondo of Blood.

I want to say there was a user here who pointed out that WATA had sent him back a different game (like USA vs USA-1), and one that was in worse shape than what he had sent in, but don't recall ever hearing anything come of that.  Whether that means that WATA simply declined to respond at all (very possible given this occurred at the height of the WATA/HA frenzy, before WATA got sold), the user never posted an update after they got one, WATA did respond and provided satisfaction but forced the user to sign an NDA, etc., I don't know.

Edited March 2, 2023 by darkchylde28

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

58 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

For the most part, I highly doubt they're going to know the quantity of mistakes they've made (at least until after the games have made it into the wild), as the people making them are most likely not noticing or are deliberately keeping their mouths shut and just pushing "product" out the door.  The ones that get blasted online are the end users noticing and subsequently putting the grading company on notice.  To date, I don't know that I've ever seen any response(s) from a grading company after such an issue was reported save the ultimate "fallout" over the fake Rondo of Blood.

I want to say there was a user here who pointed out that WATA had sent him back a different game (like USA vs USA-1), and one that was in worse shape than what he had sent in, but don't recall ever hearing anything come of that.  Whether that means that WATA simply declined to respond at all (very possible given this occurred at the height of the WATA/HA frenzy, before WATA got sold), the user never posted an update after they got one, WATA did respond and provided satisfaction but forced the user to sign an NDA, etc., I don't know.

maybe VGS could make a database of the claims

pokemon red sticker tear with  writing

prototype snes carts with retail cart inside

usa usa1 swap

rondo fake

overgrading 9.8 007 nightfire

seal ripped while putting in the holder

 

those are off the top of my head ... what else? I never invested from the start because of the whole Dain/NA fiasco. I couldnt get over it and still cant

Edited March 2, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale_no_split