WATA's going on here?

[tidaldreams | 654]

17 hours ago, retro.magnus said:

I’ve bought multiple games from this seller. They have always described each game very well and everything I have received has arrived with a shit ton of bubble wrap. Based on my experiences with them I wouldn’t imagine they are to blame. 

this seller is dope. i used to win like 6-10 games a week from them and they would just ship it in that giant wata box nowadays their auctions seem to go somewhat high... or at least no where near as cheap as before

[GPX | 1,369]

6 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I thought the purpose of these grading companies was so that we could hear a grade and then buy the game sight unseen, knowing what sort of item we were going to be receiving.

If we need to describe a game's condition on top of getting it graded, it defeats the purpose of getting the item graded in the first place, whether it's this copy we are discussing or a different copy where the condition matches the grade.

This is a misconception. The grade is supposed to give the owner/buyer a rough estimate of “perfection”. If it’s an “9.8 A++” then you would hope that the game is in as close to perfection as is imaginable. This OP example is nowhere near an “A++” standard. 
 

Any lower grades than perfection, it implies that there are apparent flaws. Buyers should still look at photos/description to see if the flaws roughly match the grade given, and if the flaws are acceptable to the individual buyer.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

9 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I thought the purpose of these grading companies was so that we could hear a grade and then buy the game sight unseen, knowing what sort of item we were going to be receiving.

If we need to describe a game's condition on top of getting it graded, it defeats the purpose of getting the item graded in the first place, whether it's this copy we are discussing or a different copy where the condition matches the grade.

That's how it's supposed to work, if the grading company is actually doing its job.  Clearly, in this case (no pun intended, haha), that didn't happen.  Clearly, whatever "post slabbing" inspection of items that seems to happen didn't, or, again, this game got a "pity" grade due to WATA's own negligence and the latter inspection just ignored the glaring flaws in order to presumably "appease the customer."  Since many WATA customers are slabbing simply to get a better price when flipping, I'm pretty sure that a better alternative than fake grading would be to provide them with some sort of financial compensation out of the perceived value "insurance" slush fund that they have versus wiping their ass on their own business model.

8 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

no fcgamer, you are wrong! here's some excuses from the grader's handbook: it was honest mistake, seller needs to be responsible, buyer needs to inspect the game anyway, graders aren't perfect, a slip once in a while is ok, we were only grading the disc duh, it's 9.8 out of 100, blah blah blah

9.8 out of 100, rofl!  What is this, a game that belonged to @Paul? 

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

how embarrassing

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

18 hours ago, RH said:

Anyway, when they screw up, I think they do "pity" grade

I know this is just speculation, but if this is actually true, it absolutely removes any possible shred of integrity from the company and their grading process. 

[RH | 4,898]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I know this is just speculation, but if this is actually true, it absolutely removes any possible shred of integrity from the company and their grading process. 

I agree, and I won't say what I'm about to say is an observation of "integrity", but I think there is a small chance that when Wata was bought out, (Sorry, can't recall who bought them) I think the new ownership company tried to sweep the issues that people were having with old Wata ways under the rug.

My game was photographed and staged for grading before the company moved to California.  I think the new owners became well aware that Wata was making sloppy mistakes and I think to do damage control, they allowed for old grades to be lack because, maybe, they were trying to turn a new leaf.

Depending on when the game by OP was graded, this might be an old Wata game.  I'm curious if someone could take a look at a lot of titles recently graded in the past 6 months and see if the grading is more consistent since operations shipped to California.

They might  be a decent grading company now, but I'm not giving them a second chance.  Like I said, this was the first game I've had graded and I may get another 2-3 games graded in my entire collecting life time.  Wata just lost my business over this, even if they are under new management.

[final fight cd | 186]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I know this is just speculation, but if this is actually true, it absolutely removes any possible shred of integrity from the company and their grading process. 

Did them holding onto games for over a year stop them from making money? No.  People still were sending in games.  I think I read here recently that WATA held onto his/her game for 18 games.  That is totally nuts.  These issues are well known and clearly they are not hurting because of it.  WATA has cemented themselves as the premier grading service and they cannot do any harm in the eyes of the vast majority of collectors who use a grading service.  It Reilly baffles my mind.  

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

5 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

Did them holding onto games for over a year stop them from making money? No.  People still were sending in games.  I think I read here recently that WATA held onto his/her game for 18 games.  That is totally nuts.  These issues are well known and clearly they are not hurting because of it.  WATA has cemented themselves as the premier grading service and they cannot do any harm in the eyes of the vast majority of collectors who use a grading service.  It Reilly baffles my mind.  

Might be a psychological thing, and I admit I'm guilty of this if I really reflect...

Cognitive dissonance is doing an action contrary to your own beliefs, and using a grading company to grade a bunch of games, then finding out they are shady but continuing to use the service might be an example.

It's engraining yourself in something because you don't want to be wrong about past decisions... Same reason people debate losing viewpoints. 

Anyways, I know I'm guilty of this myself, but dammit, it's hard to get away from

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

10 hours ago, final fight cd said:

WATA has cemented themselves as the premier grading service and they cannot do any harm in the eyes of the vast majority of collectors speculators who use a grading service.

FTFY.  The vast majority of collector's don't grade or trust grading companies, and those that do use them nearly always have their ear to the ground for whatever news pops up in the hobby and are more than willing to turn their backs on companies who turn out to be sketchy or produce wildly varying results.  At this point, I suspect anyone who still has "total faith" in WATA is either being willingly ignorant or is deliberately ignoring the ever mounting evidence against the company solely so they can misrepresent themselves as "collectors" and put a better face on their flipping business.

[retro.magnus | 136]

20 hours ago, tidaldreams said:

this seller is dope. i used to win like 6-10 games a week from them and they would just ship it in that giant wata box nowadays their auctions seem to go somewhat high... or at least no where near as cheap as before

Yep they're great. They must've had cases of shit because a large majority of games they post another will follow the next week. They usually list the lower grades first then move up if they have multiple. 

[Hammerfestus | 3,832]

I don’t get it.  Am I supposed to feel bad for all of these people because they  bought into an MLM?  Should we also hold a candle light vigil for all of the dopes hucking fingernails and smoothies too?  
 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Hammerfestus

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

3 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

I don’t get it.  Am I supposed to feel bad for all of these people because they  bought into an MLM?  Should we also hold a candle light vigil for all of the dopes hucking fingernails and smoothies too? 

Regardless of how I feel about grading and entombing games, I do feel bad for anybody when a company hired to do a service damages their property.  Doesn't matter how dumb I think whatever they're doing with it is, it's still unnecessary and preventable when the group they hired screws it up while its in their care.  That's just basic empathy.

[Hammerfestus | 3,832]

20 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Regardless of how I feel about grading and entombing games, I do feel bad for anybody when a company hired to do a service damages their property.  Doesn't matter how dumb I think whatever they're doing with it is, it's still unnecessary and preventable when the group they hired screws it up while its in their care.  That's just basic empathy.

[inasuma | 1,203]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:12 PM, darkchylde28 said:

FTFY.  The vast majority of collector's don't grade or trust grading companies, and those that do use them nearly always have their ear to the ground for whatever news pops up in the hobby and are more than willing to turn their backs on companies who turn out to be sketchy or produce wildly varying results.  At this point, I suspect anyone who still has "total faith" in WATA is either being willingly ignorant or is deliberately ignoring the ever mounting evidence against the company solely so they can misrepresent themselves as "collectors" and put a better face on their flipping business.

This is really important. I'm in the "minority" of grading hobbyists who genuinely try to collect and while I like Wata in some areas, there's no reason to ignore the bad parts. How else do these companies improve if they aren't hearing our feedback? That's different vs speculators obviously who likely prefer silencing the negativity to boost profits.

For instance, the last year or so of events has really shown me that there still isn't a "great" grading house for games yet. Wata has made strides to improve, and it's obvious, but there are still some sore spots. VGA still has dogpoop turnarounds, and CGC is too new and has had allegations of authenticating and doubling + tripling down on reseals.

Idk, I just want them to be better, and instances like the OPs ebay listing are proof of where Wata came from, and knowing who is there now (e.g. Andrew + Dan leading the auth/grading charge), I feel better, but not fully satisfied.

[final fight cd | 186]

14 minutes ago, inasuma said:

Idk, I just want them to be better, and instances like the OPs ebay listing are proof of where Wata came from, and knowing who is there now (e.g. Andrew + Dan leading the auth/grading charge), I feel better, but not fully satisfied.

i take it the OG grading people are no longer there? if so, what happened? and why are these 2 people better/different than the old?

[inasuma | 1,203]

5 hours ago, final fight cd said:

i take it the OG grading people are no longer there? if so, what happened? and why are these 2 people better/different than the old?

Yeah they were let go when collectors bought out wata and the office officially moved. No idea why honestly, but the folks running that show now are great. Dan of modern database leads auth and Andrew (pre acquisition grader) leads grading.

From what I can tell the grading is more consistent and having an authentication / research department means fewer mistakes.

I’m trying to see the glass half full I suppose - I like the changes they’re making, including the new case design (assuming it addresses common criticisms of the current case), and if they can keep the momentum going I think they can regain some trust. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by inasuma

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:27 AM, inasuma said:

VGA still has dogpoop turnarounds, and CGC is too new and has had allegations of authenticating and doubling + tripling down on reseals.

To be honest, CGA is a shadow of its former self since their Tom Darby days. And that does not say much seeing how they are still here is only tied to the fact their own controversies continue to be ignored. And as for CGC, I was once told by a former comic book grader that the grading department often follows a "quota before accuracy" protocol. Which is why both situations do not surprise me. Especially when the original VGA page announced they decided to grade sealed VHS tapes, as opposed to doing what was needed to be done (e.g. catching up on their grading) first. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:27 PM, inasuma said:

 

For instance, the last year or so of events has really shown me that there still isn't a "great" grading house for games yet. Wata has made strides to improve, and it's obvious, but there are still some sore spots. VGA still has dogpoop turnarounds, and CGC is too new and has had allegations of authenticating and doubling + tripling down on reseals.

I'm not sure what you're expecting then?  I'd say all of the big 3 are "Great", but none are perfect and no grading house for any hobby is perfect, nor even close.  You can look up literally anything and there will be talk about overgrading / undergrading / reseals / trimmed cards / altered coins / retouched comics / etc.  

If you choose grading then you are accepting the plus or minus error in the grade itself, handling risk, shipping risk, etc.  You don't want anyone to see their items lost, damaged or graded wrong (which comes down to subjectivity), but it happens.

I've seen questionable seals and grades from all of the companies and sadly thus is life. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by jonebone

[Link | 2,709]

31 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I'm not sure what you're expecting then?  I'd say all of the big 3 are "Great", but none are perfect and no grading house for any hobby is perfect, nor even close.  You can look up literally anything and there will be talk about overgrading / undergrading / reseals / trimmed cards / altered coins / retouched comics / etc.  

If you choose grading then you are accepting the plus or minus error in the grade itself, handling risk, shipping risk, etc.  You don't want anyone to see their items lost, damaged or graded wrong (which comes down to subjectivity), but it happens.

I've seen questionable seals and grades from all of the companies and sadly thus is life. 

Just generally... why are there so many problems? Is this the kind of thing where every single issue gets a lot of attention due to the nature bearing high expectations, or is the whole service sector really so totally unreliable in its sole purpose?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, jonebone said:

If you choose grading then you are accepting the plus or minus error in the grade itself, handling risk, shipping risk, etc.  You don't want anyone to see their items lost, damaged or graded wrong (which comes down to subjectivity), but it happens.

Exactly this. Literally listing reasons not to grade, lol. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

1 hour ago, Link said:

Just generally... why are there so many problems? Is this the kind of thing where every single issue gets a lot of attention due to the nature bearing high expectations, or is the whole service sector really so totally unreliable in its sole purpose?

Humans are imperfect and grading is a subjective human process.  There's no more problems in this industry than any other.  You go to a fast food restaurant and they mess up your order then you're annoyed, but when they mess up your $100 or $1000 (or more) sealed game and people are more vocal.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

13 minutes ago, jonebone said:

You go to a fast food restaurant and they mess up your order then you're annoyed, but when they mess up your $100 or $1000 (or more) sealed game and people are more vocal.

Oh, I'll be vocal. I can barely go to any fast good restaurant with an order for a family of 4 without SOMETHING getting fucked up. Literally every place we go. Nobody takes pride in their work anymore. 

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Oh, I'll be vocal. I can barely go to any fast good restaurant with an order for a family of 4 without SOMETHING getting fucked up. Literally every place we go. Nobody takes pride in their work anymore. 

I promise you if you go to taco bell right now and get any kind of sauce with your order you'll either get 0 packets,  1 packet,  or 10 wrong packets. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

2 hours ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

I promise you if you go to taco bell right now and get any kind of sauce with your order you'll either get 0 packets,  1 packet,  or 10 wrong packets. 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Taco Bell gets my order correct every single time just like wata does. All you gotta do is say please and thank you. It’s not hard!