PayPal Friends & Family Payments

[Clutchcards | 9]

Hey, just wanted to make a suggestion to allow experienced members to ask for PayPal payments via Friends & Family. Similar to the Reddit GameSale forum (r/GameSale), maybe there could be some generic post/warning that triggers when F&F is mentioned that lets buyers know the risks associated when sending via Friends & Family. We could also limit the sellers allowed to ask for F&F payments based on the number of confirmed transactions/age of VGS account.

I noticed you aren't even allowed to ask for F&F payments in For Sale posts. Maybe allowing sellers to ask for F&F payments, triggering a warning outlining the risks of F&F, would promote some transparency. This could eliminate people asking for F&F payments thru private messaging without warning about the risks associated with F&F Payments.

Regardless, I'm a big fan of VGS. It's a great community and I've been able to make a lot of deals here.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Clutchcards

[Gloves | 11,761]

It's against PayPal's terms of service. We don't encourage rule breaking or illegal practices, as a general rule of thumb. 

[Link | 2,708]

Who are you to be concerned about what a nebulously defined trusted seller can do? 

Paypal gives a warning itself, no need to duplicate that here.

Somebody pays it one way or the other. With F&F the buyer has to pay the extra amount. If somebody wants to recoup cost of such fees they could merely increase their price by the 3% or whatever it is. I know when I bought something from somebody here I trust, I voluntarily threw in a few extra dollars for that. 

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

40 minutes ago, Link said:

Who are you to be concerned about what a nebulously defined trusted seller can do? 

Paypal gives a warning itself, no need to duplicate that here.

Somebody pays it one way or the other. With F&F the buyer has to pay the extra amount. If somebody wants to recoup cost of such fees they could merely increase their price by the 3% or whatever it is. I know when I bought something from somebody here I trust, I voluntarily threw in a few extra dollars for that. 

Gloves is saying that using FnF to pay for goods is against PAYPALS terms of service, and VGS discourages users from violating terms of service. It’s covering VGS from any legal blowback of something that may go wrong from a transaction here. 
 

I’m not sure what you mean by your opening sentence but as the site owner it’s his way or the highway lol

[Link | 2,708]

1 minute ago, a3quit4s said:

Gloves is saying that using FnF to pay for goods is against PAYPALS terms of service, and VGS discourages users from violating terms of service. It’s covering VGS from any legal blowback of something that may go wrong from a transaction here. 

And I'm saying the request is pointless regardless.

1 minute ago, a3quit4s said:

I’m not sure what you mean by your opening sentence 

OP is sus. Why is this a concern? But nothing matters I'm just having fun with it.

[Clutchcards | 9]

1 minute ago, Link said:

And I'm saying the request is pointless regardless.

OP is sus. Why is this a concern? But nothing matters I'm just having fun with it.

How am I suspect? I've been a member of the boards since it was NintendoAge (well before the current transaction/feedback system). I was asking a simple question. As mentioned, I use the GameSale forum on Reddit and using PayPal F&F is pretty common practice over there.

Completely understand and accept Gloves answer to my question. I'm not challenging anything.

 

 

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

13 minutes ago, Link said:

And I'm saying the request is pointless regardless.

OP is sus. Why is this a concern? But nothing matters I'm just having fun with it.

Oooohhh ok I figured you forgot the /s hahaha

[RH | 4,895]

1 hour ago, Link said:

OP is sus. Why is this a concern? But nothing matters I'm just having fun with it.

Gottem! We found our wolf for the day.

VOTE: Clurchcards

[doner24 | 1,195]

17 minutes ago, RH said:

Gottem! We found our wolf for the day.

VOTE: Clurchcards

Clurch? Looks like you’re working with him. 
 

VOTE: RH 

[Mega Tank | 955]

https://thefeecalculator.com/

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

4 hours ago, Link said:

Somebody pays it one way or the other. With F&F the buyer has to pay the extra amount. If somebody wants to recoup cost of such fees they could merely increase their price by the 3% or whatever it is. I know when I bought something from somebody here I trust, I voluntarily threw in a few extra dollars for that. 

Unless they've changed something in the last couple of months, nobody pays any fees on F&F payments.  I've never paid anything the few times I've sent stuff that way, nor have any of my friends who've sent money my way.  It might be different if someone has a business acount versus a personal one though, which I don't have any access to or experience with.  Amen to just ponying up the extra tidbit for fees when sending G&S to a non-business, though--I've always done it that way and never had anyone reject a payment to date.

[goldenpp72 | 1,229]

48 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Unless they've changed something in the last couple of months, nobody pays any fees on F&F payments.  I've never paid anything the few times I've sent stuff that way, nor have any of my friends who've sent money my way.  It might be different if someone has a business acount versus a personal one though, which I don't have any access to or experience with.  Amen to just ponying up the extra tidbit for fees when sending G&S to a non-business, though--I've always done it that way and never had anyone reject a payment to date.

Negative, I believe the process is if you have money in the account then no one is charged a fee, but if you use a credit card like many do (myself included) then the sender of the payment is charged essentially the same fee instead. Not only does this open you up for fraud, but you still pay the same thing too, making it entirely pointless. I know this because I do send gift payments to one individual whom I trust a lot and have had to eat that fee, to protect his tax documents basically.

I also don't condone in any way supporting F&F payments, there has been a big recent uptick of people scamming people within the community, it should be a forbidden practice in any official capacity, so that if it is done and you do get screwed, at least all the warnings were given to you.

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

5 minutes ago, goldenpp72 said:

Negative, I believe the process is if you have money in the account then no one is charged a fee, but if you use a credit card like many do (myself included) then the sender of the payment is charged essentially the same fee instead. Not only does this open you up for fraud, but you still pay the same thing too, making it entirely pointless. I know this because I do send gift payments to one individual whom I trust a lot and have had to eat that fee, to protect his tax documents basically.

I also don't condone in any way supporting F&F payments, there has been a big recent uptick of people scamming people within the community, it should be a forbidden practice in any official capacity, so that if it is done and you do get screwed, at least all the warnings were given to you.

I can say with authority that you're at least off-base regarding bank cards and bank accounts, at least up to 6 months ago or so, as neither I nor friends have ever gotten hit with fees for using linked bank accounts or Visa debit cards for F&F.  I've never used a straight up credit card for F&F with PayPal, so I'll have to defer to your wisdom on that one.

I'm not a fan of F&F payments either, but if there's legitimate trust between two people, that's often the easiest way to get it done, and if you're transferring your own money with no fees, there's no downside.  Now between strangers, yeah, I'm generally as down on F&F as anyone given the inability for the sender to recover funds should things go south.  Perhaps people in the position of wanting to bring back F&F to dodge tax responsibility should roll back the clock and start using money orders again.  It's not as easy to get your money back if you get ripped off, but you can absolutely pursue someone for mail fraud over it, which is honestly a scarier proposition than scamming them on PayPal due to the federal charges involved.

[Mega Tank | 955]

27 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

I'm not a fan of F&F payments either, but if there's legitimate trust between two people, that's often the easiest way to get it done, and if you're transferring your own money with no fees, there's no downside. 

Long ago I bought an item from someone on the previous forum, paid G&S, but could have paid F&F. The item never arrived and all communication was lost. It was a USPS issue, but I never heard from the seller ever again. I can only assume either the person passed away, they moved out of the country or left the hobby entirely and never looked back. To this day I still don't know what happened and I don't recall the username. Had I paid F&F, I would have been out the $, though not "a lot" it is still, $. Since I paid G&S, I got my money back and well, all I can hope for is the seller is ok. The point is, stuff happens and paying G&S is a way to avoid any potential headaches. I have had people try to push F&F here and I refuse, unless the situation calls for it (paying someone back). Less issues for all parties involved.

[Link | 2,708]

1 hour ago, darkchylde28 said:

Unless they've changed something in the last couple of months, nobody pays any fees on F&F payments.  I've never paid anything the few times I've sent stuff that way, nor have any of my friends who've sent money my way.  It might be different if someone has a business acount versus a personal one though, which I don't have any access to or experience with.  Amen to just ponying up the extra tidbit for fees when sending G&S to a non-business, though--I've always done it that way and never had anyone reject a payment to date.

It might be that. I'm pretty sure I only did it once, it was definitely to a business. And I did it because there was trust, or I was just making a donation, or a long delay led to a refund and then the thing from overseas finally showed up so I sent money back. Something like that. If I'm doing actual friends or family I use Zelle.

[Link | 2,708]

2 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

Long ago I bought an item from someone on the previous forum, paid G&S, but could have paid F&F. The item never arrived and all communication was lost. It was a USPS issue, but I never heard from the seller ever again. I can only assume either the person passed away, they moved out of the country or left the hobby entirely and never looked back. To this day I still don't know what happened and I don't recall the username. Had I paid F&F, I would have been out the $, though not "a lot" it is still, $. Since I paid G&S, I got my money back and well, all I can hope for is the seller is ok. The point is, stuff happens and paying G&S is a way to avoid any potential headaches. I have had people try to push F&F here and I refuse, unless the situation calls for it (paying someone back). Less issues for all parties involved.

And this is exactly why I'm glad PayPal is used on more than just mainly eBay now. I tend to use it for mail orders when possible with anybody I don't already know. For (small) vendors I frequent, I will go to the trouble of digging out my credit card to save them a potential additional fee. But some tchotchke from a facebook ad? eBay or Etsy? I'll take that extra layer of protection, please and thank you.

[Gloves | 11,761]

3 minutes ago, Link said:

And this is exactly why I'm glad PayPal is used on more than just mainly eBay now. I tend to use it for mail orders when possible with anybody I don't already know. For (small) vendors I frequent, I will go to the trouble of digging out my credit card to save them a potential additional fee. But some tchotchke from a facebook ad? eBay or Etsy? I'll take that extra layer of protection, please and thank you.

It's bizarre to me that it's the norm on Facebook, reddit, and other places for people to DEMAND F&F payments. I ain't trusting some complete rando I don't know to make good on sending me a game with ZERO protection for my money. 

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

5 minutes ago, Gloves said:

It's bizarre to me that it's the norm on Facebook, reddit, and other places for people to DEMAND F&F payments. I ain't trusting some complete rando I don't know to make good on sending me a game with ZERO protection for my money. 

Everything online basically is now just a scam. We taking it back old school and doing cash meetups lol

[Link | 2,708]

7 minutes ago, Gloves said:

It's bizarre to me that it's the norm on Facebook, reddit, and other places for people to DEMAND F&F payments. I ain't trusting some complete rando I don't know to make good on sending me a game with ZERO protection for my money. 

Wow I've never had that happen. Fuuuck that for sure. I was mostly thinking of fb ads, not other individual users. I recently bought a lamp from an ad (and that shipped from Italy), and a stack of zines.

[Gloves | 11,761]

Just now, Link said:

Wow I've never had that happen. Fuuuck that for sure. I was mostly thinking of fb ads, not other individual users. I recently bought a lamp from an ad (and that shipped from Italy), and a stack of zines.

I was looking on a game trade/sale subreddit and everyone required F&F. Or fuckin bitcoin lol. 

[goldenpp72 | 1,229]

1 hour ago, darkchylde28 said:

I can say with authority that you're at least off-base regarding bank cards and bank accounts, at least up to 6 months ago or so, as neither I nor friends have ever gotten hit with fees for using linked bank accounts or Visa debit cards for F&F.  I've never used a straight up credit card for F&F with PayPal, so I'll have to defer to your wisdom on that one.

I'm not a fan of F&F payments either, but if there's legitimate trust between two people, that's often the easiest way to get it done, and if you're transferring your own money with no fees, there's no downside.  Now between strangers, yeah, I'm generally as down on F&F as anyone given the inability for the sender to recover funds should things go south.  Perhaps people in the position of wanting to bring back F&F to dodge tax responsibility should roll back the clock and start using money orders again.  It's not as easy to get your money back if you get ripped off, but you can absolutely pursue someone for mail fraud over it, which is honestly a scarier proposition than scamming them on PayPal due to the federal charges involved.

Well right now, I have a 3 different brands of credit cards (not a debit card) connected to Paypal using a personal account, if I try to pay anyone anything using either method via F&F, it charges something like a 3-4 percent fee. Checking account withdrawls and debit card withdrawls may be free, but that also truly means you're on your own as well. I assume they charge this fee because they know people can still use their CC to contest a transaction, but I don't know for sure.

Edited February 6, 2023 by goldenpp72

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

7 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

Long ago I bought an item from someone on the previous forum, paid G&S, but could have paid F&F. The item never arrived and all communication was lost. It was a USPS issue, but I never heard from the seller ever again. I can only assume either the person passed away, they moved out of the country or left the hobby entirely and never looked back. To this day I still don't know what happened and I don't recall the username. Had I paid F&F, I would have been out the $, though not "a lot" it is still, $. Since I paid G&S, I got my money back and well, all I can hope for is the seller is ok. The point is, stuff happens and paying G&S is a way to avoid any potential headaches. I have had people try to push F&F here and I refuse, unless the situation calls for it (paying someone back). Less issues for all parties involved.

You guys aren't telling me anything I don't already know.  The only people that I will do F&F with are actual F&F, so you're not saving me any headache.  I'm just willing to admit that it's a legitimate option under the right circumstances or willingness to accept risk even if I don't use it myself 99% of the time.  Everybody should always be using G&S with anybody that they don't have 100% trust in.  However, some people have that level of trust with people they don't actually know IRL.  I know it's not likely intentional, but any rebuttal of F&F directed at me is essentially going to be a straw man argument, as I'm not saying anyone should use it, just pointing out the circumstances under which it's appropriate to do so.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

24 minutes ago, Gloves said:

It's bizarre to me that it's the norm on Facebook, reddit, and other places for people to DEMAND F&F payments. I ain't trusting some complete rando I don't know to make good on sending me a game with ZERO protection for my money. 

I find it less bizarre that people are asking/demanding F&F versus the people who are actually going along with it.  That's just like the people who demand you CashApp them for something before you ever meet up.  F that.

12 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I was looking on a game trade/sale subreddit and everyone required F&F. Or fuckin bitcoin lol. 

I think the moment someone starts demanding F&F or crypto it tells you all you need to know about them.

7 minutes ago, goldenpp72 said:

Well right now, I have a 3 different brands of credit cards (not a debit card) connected to Paypal using a personal account, if I try to pay anyone anything using either method via F&F, it charges something like a 3-4 percent fee. Checking account withdrawls and debit card withdrawls may be free, but that also truly means you're on your own as well. I assume they charge this fee because they know people can still use their CC to contest a transaction, but I don't know for sure.

I'm pretty sure the small percentage fee is just the normal credit card processing fee that PayPal gets charged just like anybody else who's pulling money off of a card.  Every store that you use your cards in gets charged those fees.  The only difference here is that PayPal is passing the buck on to you.  You're absolutely right, though, if you use F&F with someone who you don't have absolute trust with, you have the chance to end up up the creek.  Which is why I don't advocate for people to use it.  Argue with OP, not me, lol.  I've only pointed out that you can use it and should only use it in situations exactly like PayPal designed it for--for passing money back and forth between friends and family, people you have 100% trust with.

[Gloves | 11,761]

1 minute ago, darkchylde28 said:

I think the moment someone starts demanding F&F or crypto it tells you all you need to know about them.

Yessir. 

[goldenpp72 | 1,229]

9 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

I find it less bizarre that people are asking/demanding F&F versus the people who are actually going along with it.  That's just like the people who demand you CashApp them for something before you ever meet up.  F that.

I think the moment someone starts demanding F&F or crypto it tells you all you need to know about them.

I'm pretty sure the small percentage fee is just the normal credit card processing fee that PayPal gets charged just like anybody else who's pulling money off of a card.  Every store that you use your cards in gets charged those fees.  The only difference here is that PayPal is passing the buck on to you.  You're absolutely right, though, if you use F&F with someone who you don't have absolute trust with, you have the chance to end up up the creek.  Which is why I don't advocate for people to use it.  Argue with OP, not me, lol.  I've only pointed out that you can use it and should only use it in situations exactly like PayPal designed it for--for passing money back and forth between friends and family, people you have 100% trust with.

It's not the same thing, I send payments using a CC all the time the normal method and don't get charged directly any fee. I had a specific 1:1 instance because I bought an 800 dollar item from a friend and the fee was pretty much 1:1 in terms of if I send it friends and family, versus the fee he received if it was a normal payment. I just took the hit that time as an act of good faith, thankfully no issues arouse as usual with him.

It's a pretty known element these days, considering I was told the requirement to get around that fee was to use my checking account (which for some reason, PP rejected). Basically, if I send 1000 bucks to you using my CC, I just send 1000 and that's it, but if it's F&F I will absolutely be charged more from my end. As for how the receiving end goes, not entirely sure these days as I haven't done a direct PP sale in awhile. 

Here is the last F&F payment I sent using a credit card, versus a normal one. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by goldenpp72