Jump to content
IGNORED

Goodbye Sealed Pokerman


fcgamer

Recommended Posts

Events Team · Posted

 

10 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

And FYI, customs has every right to rip into it. They arent shredding anything, they are making sure nothing illegal was being stored in there.

That's actually a big problem, customs shouldn't have the rights to ruin the value of a collectible of a private citizen. If they need to check the inside of sealed video games as prevention of drug smuggling or whatever, then they should use X-rays equipment and be done with that.

Let's not be delusional, liking sealed games or not, customs officials ruining private properties' value aren't saving the world from druglords.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
  • Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

I see plenty of sympathy posts

That's actually a big problem, customs shouldn't have the rights to ruined the value of a collectible of a private citizen. If they need to check the inside of sealed video games as prevention of drug smuggling or whatever, then they should use X-rays equipment and be done with that.

Let's not be delusional, liking sealed games or not, customs officials ruining private properties' value aren't saving the world from druglords.

I wonder if there is Fine print anywhere that covers them 🤔

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Events Team · Posted
5 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

I wonder if there is Fine print anywhere that covers them 🤔

I think it all comes down to shipping insurance from where we stand legally right now, but I must admit that I never went to the end of the question whenever it happened to me or my buyers in the past. And even with insurance it would be a total pain to assess the correct value to such thing as sealed video games.

It would be good to know for sure if there's anything to cover the lost or something. It happens very rarely, but it does happen.

The truth is that if a custom official knows the potential value of something, they would handle it accordingly. If a customs official knows how much more a sealed video game can be worth vs opened, then they would reasonably not open it to inspect it. But as we stand right now, it is not common knowledge and this is why it happens.

Nobody's going to rip off a Picasso painting to see if there's drug hidden in it, even if there is actually drugs hidden in it. Not that sealed games are anywhere on par with fine arts culturally and value wise, but you get what I mean.

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

I think it all comes down to shipping insurance from where we stand legally right now, but I must admit that I never went to the end of the question whenever it happened to me or my buyers in the past. And even with insurance it would be a total pain to assess the correct value to such thing as sealed video games.

It would be good to know for sure if there's anything to cover the lost or something. It happens very rarely, but it does happen.

The truth is that if a custom official knows the potential value of something, they would handle it accordingly. If a customs official knows how much more a sealed video game can't be worth vs opened, then they would reasonably not open it to inspect it. But as we stand right now, it is not common knowledge and this is why it happens.

Nobody's going to rip off a Picasso painting to see if there's drug hidden in it, even if there is actually drugs hidden in it. Not that sealed games are anywhere on par with fine arts culturally and value wise, but you get what I mean.

 

I have a lot of questions going through my mind with the article presented in the OP:

- what was the official reason for the customs to open up the entire thing?

eg. Sniffer dog ran around the package?

- maybe the customs person wasn’t a fan of graded games, had a bad day, saw a graded game through the XRay, and decided to vent on this Pokémon by being a pokey-man?

- could the story actually be a hoax, and the box was opened up by the “friend” of the story source? 
 

- could it even be a scam, and the torn Pokémon box was a swapped game, with the sealed game still intact and soon to be regraded again?

- am I reading too much into all of this?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, GPX said:

I have a lot of questions going through my mind with the article presented in the OP:

- what was the official reason for the customs to open up the entire thing?

eg. Sniffer dog ran around the package?

- maybe the customs person wasn’t a fan of graded games, had a bad day, saw a graded game through the XRay, and decided to vent on this Pokémon by being a pokey-man?

- could the story actually be a hoax, and the box was opened up by the “friend” of the story source? 
 

- could it even be a scam, and the torn Pokémon box was a swapped game, with the sealed game still intact and soon to be regraded again?

- am I reading too much into all of this?

Unfortunately US customs does this regularly. If you look around on different forums, you'll see a bunch of similar horror stories.

In my personal experience, they opened a sealed Arkanoid (NES) I bought from South America, trashing the box tabs in the process. They don't care if they damage your item and there is no route for reimbursement. That experience is the reason I don't buy sealed games from outside of America anymore.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, this is the rare Special U.S. Customs edition!

In all seriousness, it's really bad luck for the owner. But if the game had been "simply" left factory sealed without the WATA shit-tomb, the probability of the Customs going nuts would have been 95% lower. So yeah, too bad. Stay calm and keep grading.

  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Not sure the controversy here, I think most would agree:

Smashing of the WATA case: hilarious!

Cutting of the Pokemon box: tragic.

 

Somewhere out there, someone who is a loose cart or a bootleg collector is thinking along a similar line:

Smashing of the WATA case: hilarious!

Cutting of the Pokemon box: hilarious!

Cutting of the cart shell/board: tragic.

  • Confused 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Administrator · Posted
7 hours ago, guillavoie said:

I see plenty of sympathy posts

That's actually a big problem, customs shouldn't have the rights to ruin the value of a collectible of a private citizen. If they need to check the inside of sealed video games as prevention of drug smuggling or whatever, then they should use X-rays equipment and be done with that.

Let's not be delusional, liking sealed games or not, customs officials ruining private properties' value aren't saving the world from druglords.

If the story shared is true, I do feel bad for the person just because no one wants their stuff destroyed, regardless of WATA controversy or anything else.

Having said that, if you actually check US Customs and Border Protection Drug Seizure Statistics, they seize hundreds of *thousands* of pounds of drugs every year, through various means.  That's not including weapons, other illegal products, cash, unsafe food products, counterfeit goods, and much much more.

That isn't to say that I want anyone's stuff destroyed, but, they do have a big job to do and are seizing a LOT of drugs in the process, including more significant cases that lead to investigations that actually do result in criminal proceedings and other actions.

I've researched this issue quite a bit in the past, and I formed a new perspective about customs and what they do to protect us, and unfortunately, that involves destroying some materials.  And unfortunately, criminals are *extremely* creative in the means with which they will use to hide drugs and other illegal items.  It is not at all shocking to the people who do this on a daily basis, to find that stuff inside of toys, boxes, games, bottles, and all sorts of other things.

They process SO much cargo, that they couldn't possibly analyze everything of course, but for the stuff they do inspect (which really is a relatively small percentage), unfortunately some items get damaged in the process and they don't have the time to really open everything extremely carefully (and it's not always safe to do so given potential drugs in question).

Just a few extra things to think about is all.  

  • Like 2
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, spacepup said:

If the story shared is true, I do feel bad for the person just because no one wants their stuff destroyed, regardless of WATA controversy or anything else.

Having said that, if you actually check US Customs and Border Protection Drug Seizure Statistics, they seize hundreds of *thousands* of pounds of drugs every year, through various means.  That's not including weapons, other illegal products, cash, unsafe food products, counterfeit goods, and much much more.

That isn't to say that I want anyone's stuff destroyed, but, they do have a big job to do and are seizing a LOT of drugs in the process, including more significant cases that lead to investigations that actually do result in criminal proceedings and other actions.

I've researched this issue quite a bit in the past, and I formed a new perspective about customs and what they do to protect us, and unfortunately, that involves destroying some materials.  And unfortunately, criminals are *extremely* creative in the means with which they will use to hide drugs and other illegal items.  It is not at all shocking to the people who do this on a daily basis, to find that stuff inside of toys, boxes, games, bottles, and all sorts of other things.

They process SO much cargo, that they couldn't possibly analyze everything of course, but for they stuff they do inspect (which really is a relatively small percentage), unfortunately some items get damaged in the process and they don't have the time to really open everything extremely careful (and it's not always safe to do so given potential drugs in question).

Just a few extra things to think about is all.  

That’s why I would love to know the thinking behind the customs officer to want to break open the entire thing. If it’s out of a genuine concern for illegal activity, then that’s an angle that’s understandable. But if it’s a random box inspection, and no care shown whatsoever, then that is just plain shitty to any collectors concerned. Hopefully this is just an anomaly instead of a gruesome trend for graded collectibles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Administrator · Posted

Unfortunately we’ll never really know.  And to be clear, despite everything I said above, I obviously would hope for improvements to the processes to at least minimizing damage of people’s personal items.

I’m sure I’d be upset too if something of mine was destroyed.  I just happened to build a greater appreciation for what they are really doing is all.

I do think this kind of thing is relatively uncommon at least.  I have shipped literally hundreds of packages from overseas and have never had this happen.  Granted, I don’t buy graded games, but still.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Events Team · Posted
31 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Unfortunately we’ll never really know.  And to be clear, despite everything I said above, I obviously would hope for improvements to the processes to at least minimizing damage of people’s personal items.

I’m sure I’d be upset too if something of mine was destroyed.  I just happened to build a greater appreciation for what they are really doing is all.

I do think this kind of thing is relatively uncommon at least.  I have shipped literally hundreds of packages from overseas and have never had this happen.  Granted, I don’t buy graded games, but still.

Indeed, customs officials do this for a purpose and it is for the greater good of all in a sense, that's a fair acknowledgement of their duties and responsibilities to keep what's going through borders in check.

But the need of improvement is absolutely needed to ensure the protection of individual properties. It is true that these incidents are quite scarce, it happens in much less than 1% of the cases for sure. But still, it only takes one really bad incident to prove the process flawed.

I'm ready to understand that their procedures will irremediably lead to some valuable properties to be 'destroyed' or dramatically devalued, but if it is how it must work, damn, they should be held accountable of the damages and be legally responsible to compensate the party at loss through some kind of ruled procedures. The problem, as I see it right now, is that it seems you have absolutely no individual protection against customs officials ruining your property going through borders. This is silly, at least from an individual's rights point of view.

  • Haha 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Not sure the controversy here, I think most would agree:

Smashing of the WATA case: hilarious!

Cutting of the Pokemon box: tragic.

 

Oh yeah, in case anyone was doubting that, regarding all the negative reactions to my first comment. Ruining a game box is always too bad. Ruining the grading box? Always a victory for mankind. 🙂 

Edited by Sumez
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And some of the responses here remind me why I do not have a big collection anymore. 😅

To be fair CGA's Tom Darby era is why I was not shocked when both Wata and HA got caught. Just like how the whole Toy Toni scam did not make me think much about Wata's PCE fiasco. Because in the end I aim to have a graded game collection for non-monetary related investment reasons. With an added argument being that I collect import games at the given risk they are treated as novelties in my general area.

With the shipping end of things being the reason why I don't bitch and whine about DHL being expensive. They screwed up twice, with both times being due to the 2020 portion of the pandemic. And I don't do that because this is not news to me. There are literally stories to be found of it happening to those in other collecting communities. While there is only one being tied to PGX scamming a comic book collector (with that video no longer available).

Plus I am wondering how any of you would act if something like that happened to me. 😶

Despite that, it is why I believe that anybody who imports anything should just pay the premium if they want their goods. Double if they want their goods to arrive safely. And I can only hope that the insurance should soften some of the blow for the buyer. Simply because the end result has hit too close to home for me.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Insurance should make no difference in how an item is handled by customs. There are also plenty of tools to assess if a package/item contains drugs and I think this is both a combination of an abuse of power and large lack of concern.

Even without insurance, a value of the item has to be declared.  Maybe the guy tried to cheat the system and listed the original value of the game, or the value of just the graded service. I don’t agree with it but maybe, maaaaaybe customs more quickly searches cheaper items by cutting them open and checking the contents, which might be cheaper because sniffing a package might take 5-10 seconds or so, and that’s a long time when you have to do millions of packages a day.  Regardless, I still feel this is shameful.  For one, this was exiting the US (if I read it correctly) so why the need to destroy the property? X-ray it and let the UK hand the rest.

Also, and just another observation of just how the whole system is screwed up, through Amazon I’ve received numerous packages from China, as have many other people we all know.  Anyone ever heard of a single item shipped China direct being treated this way? We all know that stuff is trash cheap too, often covered in noxious chemicals and we all know that stuff seems to never be swabbed or checked!

At best, I could understand certain countries having stricter rules for analyzing on receipt but shipping from the US to UK should be one of the most likely safest instances.

I’d also think that if customs is going to destroy and item, they should at least have a slip of paper explaining why specific to the item and why they cut it open.  The only pass I’d give this item and it’s experience would be if the seller was a cocaine user, snorted a line, got coke all on the box and the box sent of red flags that it was covered in drugs.  Sucks for the buyer but, yeah, ok.  I guess this result would then make perfect sense.  I wouldn’t call that a false positive, just an unfortunate set of circumstances that were 100% the fault of the seller. Regardless, if customs is gonna mangle an item like this, they should legally have to declare their reason and it shouldn’t be “randomly checked screening”.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the end of the day, this is more an issue about collectors vs the damages caused by customs. It could literally happen to anyone of us collectors here. And the next time, it might not be a graded item, but a rare CIB/prototype. 
 

TLDR - if this happens to you, I don’t think you’d be laughing. 😳

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the US of A, when this happens, you need to file a Tort Claims (Standard Form 95) and submit it to the CBP.

Tort Claims - Claim for property damage or loss, or personal injury, or death:

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-178?language=en_US

/open quote/
Once a completed administrative tort claim and its supporting documentation have been submitted, CBP will investigate the facts presented and examine the legal basis for the claim.  Any claim for $10,000 or less will be investigated and reviewed by CBP’s Office of Assistant Chief Counsel, Indianapolis.  Any claim exceeding $10,000 will be investigated and reviewed by CBP’s legal counsel office nearest the geographic location where the incident is alleged to have occurred.
/close quote/

/open quote/
CBP processes administrative tort claims in accordance with the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA), 28 U.S.C. § 2671, et seq.
/close quote/

2671 is pretty long, so you probably don't want to read it until your wata'ed pokemen gets cbp'ed.

Edited by Tyree_Cooper
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what happens then is that the government tell you they do not have to compensate for such damage:

/open quote/
Congress has not consented to tort liability for certain government activities. Section 2680 of the Act lists thirteen exceptions to the general rule that tort claims can be brought against government officials.

28 U.S.C. § 2680 (1976). These exceptions bar a judicial recovery for claims based on government performance of a discretionary function or exercise of due care in the execution of a statute, negligent handling of the U.S. mail, collection of revenue and the detention of property by law enforcement officials, admiralty claims, operation of the Trading with the Enemy Act, imposition of a federal quarantine, certain specific intentional torts committed by government employees, operation of the Treasury Department, combatant activities of the armed forces, a cause of action arising in a foreign country, activities of the Tennessee Valley Authority, activities of the Panama Canal Company, and activities of federal land banks.
/close quote/

The source is this useful PDF by the University of Michigan.

 

If the owner decides to do something or go the legal route, I would be interested to know. This could happen to any of us, to that crazy rare game we are waiting for, whether sealed or not or even loose (e.g. damaging an internal board after cracking up a proto shell).

Though it looks like they gave themselves immunity - obviously. It would be good to see an official letter where they say this clearly, just so we all know there's nothing we can do and save our energy next time it happens.

Edited by Tyree_Cooper
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RH said:

Also, and just another observation of just how the whole system is screwed up, through Amazon I’ve received numerous packages from China, as have many other people we all know.  Anyone ever heard of a single item shipped China direct being treated this way? We all know that stuff is trash cheap too, often covered in noxious chemicals and we all know that stuff seems to never be swabbed or checked!

 

Isn't this issue with airports though? And most of that stuff comes on slow boats?

Edited by Link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Link said:

Isn't this issue with airports though? And most of that stuff comes on slow boats?

Maybe, but why should that make a difference?  Some small Mom-and-Pop could distribute cheap items through Amazon to the US and who cares if it's flown or boated.  They could just as easily use the business to smuggle contraband, even if it is bundled in shipped, literally on a ship.  That doesn't cover the bit about noxious chemicals on devices and toys, but still, if we're worried about drugs and other illegal things, it can just as well come from China through their typical shipping methods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...