Game Debate #126: Super Mario Bros. 2

[Reed Rothchild | 9,520]

[Gloves | 11,776]

Game's aight, I played it a bunch as a kid. The variance in characters meant you could play different ways, and everyone has a chance at a unique favorite. I liked Luigi while my brother liked Toad, if I recall. 

Not the best Mario game, ignoring the people in the back yelling that it isn't one at all. But it's not bad and definitely worth a play or five. 

[Brickman | 3,983]

Similar to Gloves. Owned it when I was younger and played it quite a bit. Peach was always my player of choice. The games alright, not something I would rush to play but if someone put it on I wouldn't say no. The ending is absolutely stupid though.

I'm in the controversial camp that says this is just Doki Doki Panic with a Mario skin, so isn't a true Mario game. Bring on those angry emojis guys! 

[OptOut | 8,883]

9/10 not as good as Mario 1 or Mario 3, but it's up there for sure!

I actually think it would be awesome if Nintendo had made a legit sequel to this game, using the gameplay and characters from Mario 2. I figured that would be the logical next step after the Mario Advance remake on GBA, they could make a Mario Advance 2 in the same style but a totally new game, but instead they just rehashed a bunch of other Mario games instead.

Bit of a missed opportunity there, if you ask me, I think there's plenty more they could do with this game design if they built on the ideas in Mario 2, but I guess we'll never see anything like that, shame.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Easy 10. It's grown on me a lot over the years, has probably aged better than SMB as well.

[Lynda Monica | 350]

I'll give this my first 10, as it's my favourite of the original three games! (All three are spectacular 10 out of 10 games though) I really like the GBA version too! It also has my favourite soundtrack of the first three games.

I was so incredibly happy when Super Mario 3D World finally brought back the whole gang, and was even accurate enough to make sure that Toad's spots were blue, and that the plot was to rescue the fairy kingdom. There's a lot of Super Mario Bros. 2 love in Super Mario 3D World, and it's a clear sign that Nintendo recognizes it as part of the series even if some of the more stubborn fans don't.

The Mario Bros. 2 love carries into Captain Toad Treasure Tracker where Shy Guys, keys, and turnip throwing are key elements of the game.

However Nintendo seriously does not capitalize anywhere near enough on how cool Snifits are. Despite how huge the Mario series is, they only appear in a handful of games. Even when they do show up, they're still incredibly rare enemies. I think there are only two or three stages where you see Snifits in the entirety of Yoshi's Island.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Lynda Monica

[DarkTone | 984]

7.

[Sumez | 2,943]

Fun game, wavered somewhere between 7 and 8, but I guess all my fond memories of it (most of them from Mario All-Stars) pushed it up to an 8.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

5/10. I didn't really care for it when it came out. It felt completely different from the original and I didn't find out until years later that the reason was because it's an unrelated Japanese game remade with Mario characters. I agree with @Brickman on the stupid dream ending too. It was like Nintendo's way of admitting that they could just stick Mario in a totally random game that already existed and people would still buy it.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Bearcat-Doug

[Tanooki | 4,932]

Hah another where I would want to score it higher but again, for the franchise, and on the system, you can do better except in this case it's just not knocking it.

Mario Madness had one meaning in the 80s into the 90s with this one, it just did so so much for the franchise.  And now we have the 21st century version of Mario Madness where sheeple love to take some incredibly biased and utterly ignorant cheap shots at the game.  Ohs noes, Nintendo are liars, they betrayed us with fake Mario...yeah....no.  Try hard, as you might, SMB2j as it is was not a great game and was for the era what someone could maybe argue is a kaizo challenge title decades before its time which could have harmed or wrecked the franchise rep outside Japan before it got started, and who knows where Mario would have been then?  Our SMB2 (their SMUSA post #3) started as a Mario game alpha testing vertical scrolling play, we know the FujiTV story, Dream Machine 87, etc...they approached, they paid, they got the engine redone into Doki Doki Panic, and the salty manufactured tears of the last 15 years or so ever since by people looking for an excuse.

The thing is SMB2 may have started and ended outside the Japanese islands as something else, but that very something else set the ground work for the franchise ever since, some immediately, some an influence later.  What started here?  Pick up and carry items/enemies to use as weapons or a means to reach places.  Items in general that impact the world, not just Mario being stronger or invincible. The true concept of changing worlds from the desert, to land, to the sky and ice were here first with their own unique mechanics.  The later idea of not just multiplayer, but 4 player choices and each having their own unique dramatically different talents.   Enemies made a staple with Snifit, Shyguy, Birdo, Pokey, etc all which kick along in the lore ever since.

SMB2 has utterly amazing mechanics and a diverse set of ways to play it.  The music is quite timeless, easily popped into your ear and stuck for a bit even like the original opening theme of the original.  TIght control, varied play, smart stage design, warps and more are all here.  The game was a dream still, a dream machine that eventually crept into reality more than anyone would have imagined in the 80s, but started to become obvious with SMB3 and well more so with SMW(SMB4) and ever since.  Sure it doesn't have as many memorable total worlds, and it doesn't have the bosses and subbosses we've had largely since so it's a really interesting stand out, but it's just as much as solid Mario game as the others from the pre-3D era.  You can infinitely do far worse, far more bland, and far more dry experiences, but there are few that out do it too.

[JamesRobot | 5,798]

Fuck yeah it's a 10.  On par with SMB and SMB 3.  

[RH | 4,903]

My "Never played it, but you're interested." is probably the most I've had to stretch that option.  I've booted this game up several times and played maybe 5 minutes of the first stage.  It's not bad but its not Mario.  I mean, the characters are there but even as a kid before I knew anything about it's history, it didn't feel anything like an SMB sequel.  That wasn't a problem or anything it was just... different.

Anyway, I just can't get into this game enough to come back to it.  It seems novel and fun and I want to give it a fair shake, I just haven't had the motivation at all in, what, 35 years?  I probably never really will play this game but I do have a minor intention of giving it a try.  Honest.

[mbd39 | 2,020]

I'd give it a 6/10 these days. It's good, but not as fun as the proper Mario games.

 

[glazball | 168]

Love this game and gave it a 9/10.

It never occurred to me until now, looking at the box art again, but why isn't the full title Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness?  Inquiring nerds want to know.

[DefaultGen | 5,401]

8/10. Great game, but the two step process of picking stuff up and chucking it just isn’t as satisfying as blazing through the other Marios just jumping on things. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

10/10 with zero hesitation for me. A true classic.

[TDIRunner | 2,733]

It's not only in my top 10, it's my number 1.  

[RH | 4,903]

Oh, and I want to say, when it comes to imagery and versions of Mario, I will give this game that this cover of Mario is my absolute favorite.  More specifically, I do like the versions of this image on a black background and Mario is holding a small mushroom.  I'm not sure where the jumping Mario holding a Power-up motif originated, but if there was any classic branding item I'd want from any game, this is the one that I want hanging on my wall!

[Webhead123 | 675]

The older I get, the more I can appreciate SMB2 for what it is. As a kid, I wanted to like it because it was a Mario game and because it was so bizarrely unique from the original...but I have to admit that I don't think I ever really took to it back then. The controls felt awkward and slippery, the power-up system was very strange. The whole thing just felt...off to me.

But yes, with the benefit of age and hindsight, I am a bit more fond of the game today than I was in the 80's and 90's. It still doesn't compete with my other favorite Mario titles but I've grown to admire its uniqueness and adjust to its unusual game play style. I've even actually, finally beaten it after all these years.

7/10

[twiztor | 850]

i waffled on this for a while, but went with a 7. 

i like this game, and always have, but the more time goes on, the less i find myself choosing it. I will pick Mario 1, 3, or World all day if i'm just looking to pop in some classic Mario action. Maybe it's the decades of arguing whether it "counts" as a true Mario game (it does!) or maybe it's more that its play mechanics have never really been followed up on, leaving it as an outlier. i don't know.

i DO know that this game began my love for Luigi ("Crazy Legs Luigi" as we called him BITD). 

[Hammerfestus | 3,835]

9.  awesome game.  Really cool and unique enemies.  Also I love that level where you get to ride on the whales.

[RH | 4,903]

Here's a fair question--had your parents picked up this game up for you when you were a kid and it was NOT branded as a Mario game, and it was just a "hidden gem" of the 80s, would you all still give it the high praise you do now?

Legit question.  Think about it, because I'd say people think about this game way more than they would if it was a title that few people knew about.  You might recall it fondly if it was in your childhood library, but I'd doubt it'd get much recognition otherwise.

And I'm not trying to knock the game, I'm just curious how you guys think you might see this game differently if history had been slightly different.

Edited November 4, 2022 by RH

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

29 minutes ago, RH said:

Here's a fair question--had your parents picked up this game up for you when you were a kid and it was NOT branded as a Mario game, and it was just a "hidden gem" of the 80s, would you all still give it the high praise you do now.

legit question.  Think about it, because I'd say people think about this game way more than they would if it was a title that few people knew about.  You might recall it fondly if it was in your childhood library, but I'd doubt it'd get much recognition.

And I'm not trying to knock the game, I'm just curious how you guys think you might see this game differently if history had been slightly different.

It would be as highly regarded as doki doki panic would be without the existence of super Mario USA (fairly unknown). I think that is a fair answer for your question.

most of the games clout comes from the title and nostalgia. The rest is the realization it’s a bootleg Mario game which adds to the lore.

Edited November 4, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[twiztor | 850]

1 hour ago, RH said:

Here's a fair question--had your parents picked up this game up for you when you were a kid and it was NOT branded as a Mario game, and it was just a "hidden gem" of the 80s, would you all still give it the high praise you do now?

i think that's a damn good question. personally, i doubt i would have been exposed to it, since my firsthand childhood was relatively limited. but had i come across it later, i feel like i could've easily perceived it as a 7 (same rating i gave it as SMB2). "good" game that never quite hits that "great" rating. 

that seems reasonable. it's still a quality 1st party Nintendo game, so you know it's not trash. but in other circumstances i could definitely defend a 1 point bump as a sort of "Mario tax"

edit to give clarification:

Doki Doki Panic 6-7, round up to 7.

SMB 7-8, round down to 7.

Edited November 4, 2022 by twiztor

[Tanooki | 4,932]

It's fair, in broad strokes.  Let's say some no name Japanese developer few people know like Pony Canyon, Coconuts, TOSE(at that time, not now), or a dozen others made the same game entirely but had random other creature, person, monster in place of Mario/Luigi alone basically.  And that this game just happened to come out on Famicom, and some mid-tier developer like Asmik, FCI, Culture Brain, Vik Tokai, even Hudson picked it up and published it to the US and PAL regions.  Would you say that SMB1 and 3 been fawned over as much?  Not likely.  Part of Mario is the history, not of Mario, but of Nintendo and what they pulled off to shove this stuff in peoples faces and adore it at a time more than Mickey Mouse of all things.  People would be more hyper critical, looking for weird choices, whatever and they'd probably all fall around the 8 range because they're still great, but then they'd lack the mythological 'Nintendo Magic' people blather about.